lol you pizzagate retards are adorable

Sadly, the responses from non-mods in my sticky seem to be drifting towards a "whatever" subverse. I'm not really sure what happens then, other than allowing it to become the shitshow shills want it to become.

Raising public awareness and alerting people how to spot pedophile networks helps make the pedophile networks more visible and increases the chances they will be arrested.

So now we're "awareness" raising? Like the scam Komen for the Cure crap? "Breast cancer awareness"?

Really not buying it. @kevdude

A sticky will be coming soon to discuss this in detail and find out what the community wants Rule 1 to include, and not include. I am still mulling how to go about presenting that discussion, as these stickies can be tricky, LOL.

Not to be rude @crensch but I don't think you have been keeping up with the fact that these pedophiles sell kids as sex slaves, run organ harvesting operations, crooked child protective services, etc....They have more ways of exploiting kids than simply fucking them.

Is that so?

Crensch the same elite crew of pedophiles run organ harvesting operations. The same elite people are also funding operations to give children hormones so that they will be transgender children.

THEY BRAG ABOUT THIS SHIT ON THE NEWS. How the fuck is this going to get someone put in jail?

These same people are also publishing pornographic like material in cartoon form to distribute to elementary school children that teaches kids how to use dildos. They do this so that children will be more pliable to pedophilia at a young age.

What research could you possibly do on this that would lead to an arrest, or even a slap on the wrist in the judicial system?

What are we doing now, thought crime hunting?

These people are not just pedophiles they are also profiting off of the children in the ways I explained above. @kevdude inspected one of our organ harvesting threads and called it a "compelling" thread and told the mods not to delete it.

I'm not sure when or where this happened, or IF it happened. I'm also not sure if there was better information in that thread than you gave here, so nice try on the D&C.

Right... I had that backwards, linking Trump to the mob would have been better. Sorry. Post is about to go live. I'll link you to it asap

Tons of quality material like children being given hormone blockers at age 3, Planned Parenthood misleading children to believe that a person is not male/female at birth

Literally accepted by our MSM and reported on without fear of retribution. ZERO elites will be imprisoned for this. Was PG not about getting those elites specifically linked to crimes in order to get them arrested?

Linking it to "the clintons" is like linking the mob to Trump, IMO.

Jesus fucking christ I just happened on this shit @kevdude

The Rule 1 problem is the biggest problem in the subverse in my opinion. Tons of quality material like children being given hormone blockers at age 3, Planned Parenthood misleading children to believe that a person is not male/female at birth using the word "gender", organ harvesting, etc...

Written by @ESOTERICshade

THIS IS NOT PIZZAGATE.

Anyone that has a problem with that stuff being removed here IMO cannot be taken seriously.

Armyseer. Early divide conquer drama. Why many observed Voat but did not post abd waste research time.

Why is there a 10,000 character limit? It doesn't seem accommodating for those people who might contribute long research articles.

Oh, excellent. Thanks for the update!

Was out for a week - did this get more or less fixed, or do I need to try and find some time to go through the names?

Shouldn't be a problem for the near future doing so.

I made a comment about his children? Im not denying this, I just dont remember it.

and how did I get dragged into PG stuff? I dont really hang here and someone msgd me about this. I have no idea why im in PG stuff.

I just logged back in after quitting voat. And I find this. this is hilarious. Im glad I came back just to see this.

I just logged back in after quitting voat. This is hilarious. Im KevDudes alt. This is hysterical

thank you for the link. I am really working on learning all the ins and outs on voat, how to find things I've posted on, etc. thanks for helping me.

I did quite a long comment to a gal who was picketing Hillary Clinton to give her some tips on protesting, and it got deleted, but I don't know why?

I want to take part in these discussions, but every time I turn around my comments are deleted by someone and I have no clue why. When rules and regulations are so intense and complicated, those of us who survived the types of programs that Pizzagate/Pedogate are talking about, end up falling silent, which is most likely what I'll do. I have a plethora of information, but I am not going to invest my time laying out facts as I know them just to have my time wasted by my comments being constantly deleted. It's annoying censorship and makes this forum non-neutral. I wasn't even allowed to defend myself on a thread someone wrote about me because it got archived. I don't see how this forum is doing anything fruitful if people aren't allowed to have a voice. I can understand if it's trolls and abusive people, but I've never posted anything like that and never would, yet still, my comments... deleted... questionable to say the least.

I found like 75% of my posts got taken down for obscure reasons so I just stopped posting. Not going to read all of this either, sorry. Keep it simple.

Ah...that makes sense.

You don't have to convince me -- I've always thought this was relevant to PG. :-)

Only suggestion, I think it might work if a version of the verse was just links, like a collective news aggreator, one that allows all things child trafficking. That way it'd be resource for all those investigating even beyond the pizza crowd. Cld see this go haywire with high conspiracy news, but it's a thought wOrth thunk.

LOL. I was replying to Crensch about why I left it up. His "Done" implied he removed it...though I didn't go dig around to see if he did.

I agree with this and I vote to add Pedogate to our name in some form (pizzagate/pedogate, pizzagateispedogate, etc).

The ones I've noticed stopped posting here -- off the top of my head -- are @redberries @redditfuckingsucksyo @PleadingtheYiff @Orangutan @Kawksnahch @privatepizza @JrSlimms @reasonedandinformed @party1981 @ideliverpizza @RebelSkum @9217 @TheGrimReader @lurch91 @EQJ @Orange_Circle @jbooba @Shielaaliens @http404 @waxdino @banenya @1ew @zzvoat @LargePepperoni @LostandFound @isthisreality @LakeOfFire

@ESOTERICshade

This is just the tip of the iceberg, and the third round of this behavior from this user overall.

There is a significant amount of energy wasted on this drama and it's sucks you have to expend your time dealing with it.
There is no real long term solution to this expect to limit the amount of energy you feed into the system.

I think that, as many of us live among people who are not or cannot be awake/aware to all of this, that it could be helpful to have a Subverse dedicated to dealing with the secondary trauma that comes from researching Pizzagate and its related horrors. I know that a space like that could definitely be helpful to me. I imagine a board where people share anxieties and frustrations, and where others can hear them. I know I spend a lot of my time feeling silenced because this material is so anti-social at it's core; it's a really difficult way to live.

Also, I have noticed a few posts related to activism lately, and it does seem to me that a Subverse dedicated to that could be helpful as we move forward. It could be a place to share demonstrate-able events, picket sign ideas, pamphlet outlines, etc. Perhaps this isn't the right place to put this comment: I am kind of new to all of this, but horrified as well as motivated to wake up our fellow citizens. Is there a better place to suggest a Subverse or two?

Human Trafficking would be separate from Pizzagate too using that logic, but it isn't.

Elite child sex abuse/trafficking and organ trafficking are both subsets of human trafficking. One is what pizzagate is about. The other is not. If users were to vote to expand the definition to include organ trafficking, that would be fine by me (although I would personally disagree, since as far as I've seen, the organ trafficking angle is pure speculation).

By that logic, MK Ritual Mind Abuse, Hollywood sexual abuse, Child Protective Services, Foster Homes, corrupt law enformement officers, corrupt medical services and personnel, previous mind control survivors, child trafficking by elites over state and national borders, and anything else related to pizzagate that was not INITIALLY discovered with Comet Ping Pong should also have its own sub-verse.

Some of those are relevant and others are relevant in certain contexts.

Voat is supposed to be about what the Voaters want, within the rules, and not what you decide they need.

That's exactly right, and those rules (voted in place by the users) are what I'm enforcing. Of course, they are subject to change by the users.

By all means, please check them.

And, after you check them, Crensch or whoever, you can come back here and post that NONE of those other accounts are moi. :)

Got it. I now know who/what you are. Will be sure to ignore you going forward.

For Proposal #4: My opinion is to discuss and include stuff that's removed now simply for I feel some good posts have been removed just citing a rule with no explanation? That just my take on it and seen people having to repost because of a simple overlook which can frustrating. Certain good posts get removed and lose there momentum. Also @Vindicator great job doing this. Inspired to me to get a little more active in what I feel is a great tight community despite the shills, which are usually easy to spot.Thanks.

Can any of you moderators please explain why these insulting and emotionally overcharged posts by Crensch to PG posters is acceptable protocol for moderators?

Is this a joke? So let me get this straight. You, a moderator, are defending the abusive posts of another moderator, and threatening some kind of silly retaliation with fake accusations? Is this the accepted approach to your work? How old are you people? Should I infer from this that moderating is a part-time job for angry high school students?

Reminder: childhood sexual abuse is a traumatic crime, a stain on civilization, even more so when it takes on an organized and even political context. There are few forums to discuss/reveal information about this tragedy. Perhaps many posts are irrelevant/false, but even a trickle of truth is worth the openness of this forum. You may consider your role as moderators (i.e., to provide moderation of content and tenor, not engage in highly emotionalized criticism/insults/threats of posters) as you and your colleagues "police" this forum. This topic is much bigger than you or any of us.

As I see it, organ trafficking is a separate topic from pizzagate, suitable for a new sub or /pizzagatewhatever. All the evidence that gave rise to pizzagate clearly indicated pedophilia, and that gave rise to our pizzagate definition. No evidence has ever linked pizzagate per se to organ trafficking. That said, I don't recall being asked about starting a "dig" thread. I wouldn't have any problem with that, personally, although I'm not sure whether it would be within the rules. It's kind of a gray area, but I really don't think I would have denied the opportunity to start a thread for users to collaborate and LOOK FOR ties between pizzagate and organ trafficking, so long as it met rules 2 and 3. I'm curious to know when exactly the conversation took place, so I can see what exactly was said (I'm almost certain there were no "multiple requests"). THAT said, it could be a slippery slope (e.g. trolls/shills could come up with endless things to "dig": pedo aliens, lizard people, you get the idea), so it's entirely possible I said no to such a request. Also, just saying but, there are many platforms (i.e. chat rooms) available for users to collaborate, and then bring their findings to v/pizzagate.

@ESOTERICshade @Crensch @Vindicator @sensitive @Honeybee_

Here are some

Dankeyhote

DaneKeyhote

DeanKeyhote

DwayneKeyhote

DawnKeyhote

LongDongKeyhote

@719380264

Now, people have pointed out that he's also Amino69

I believe he's also DonkeyOatey

What do you mean?

Equineluvr brings me up "crayzie" because yesterday I PROVED that he and donkeyhote are the same person.

https://imgoat.com/uploads/416a75f4ce/40676.PNG

The other day, he said the Viebleu believed him and was on his side. I never paid much attention to viebleu, but if Equineluvr is sticking up for him/her then I am suspicious because equine only likes his alts.

After I proved that Equineluvr and donkeyhote are the same person, Equineluvr makes a rare post https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2093556

So, in my opinion, he and his alts have spent months and months here shilling, and now that he's been found out, he's going to try to ruin the whole sub. He is trying to tear this board apart. If he see's that he's a problem here, he should leave. Not try to sway others opinions about the whole subverse now. @vindicator

@Vindicator

I considered the proposals and I'm abstaining. If forced to vote, I would vote No on everything because I am satisfied with the status quo. Let the people who really care about these details carry the day.

My main reason for adding this comment is to let you know that I think you're doing a standup job. Thanks.

I had no idea the lengths these people will go to derail discussion here.

Indeed. I find the best solution is what we've been doing -- share as much information as possible and let users see who is truly helpful and who is merely manipulative and harmful. When the narrative is challenged, it usually collapses. It is quite time and energy consuming, though.

i feel like I am constantly explaining site mechanics to newer users lately while other users are posting misinformation

Yep. This is a pattern I have been seeing for a while. Voat has no consistent centralized source of info about how things work, what they mean, and how to use the site features to best effect. Plus, they are constantly changing. Shills have figured out most users (at least here in this sub) are not adept. I constantly get claims of comments being removed, when what has happened is someone thought they were replying to a comment but were actually replying to a DM, so their comment never appeared in the thread. The shills encourage this idea, as well as the shadowbanning fear, the removal of the Search bar to keep people from finding past research, the lag and sometimes failure to register up or downvotes, old posts on the HOT page (bug)... It goes on and on.

Done.

Others need to be addressed by [M] [J] when at all possible.

Or...repurpose the Share a Link button...LMAO

Actually, that's not a bad idea. How would we go about doing it? Make a how-to in v/pizzagatemods and sticky it there? Or is there some way to add it to Report button or something similar?

True.

As an aside, put in MF's shoes, I don't really blame him for being short with any user at this point.

I think he and one other seem legit in all of this. @ThePuppetShow, I think is the name. Could be wrong though.

So MF not saying what I did is the problem here?

@ESOTERICshade

I sincerely thanked you twice for the explanation, though I didn't ask you for it. Sorry to have taxed you so.

Well, let me know how that jives with my recent comment, and if there's some misuderstanding somewhere here.

Thanks again. Too bad it doesn't work on shill posts, but it's a good tool and I'll be using it.

This is the sort of thread I wanted to start about organ harvesting and get people to help me dig.

There are plenty of places to go to find people wanting to help dig into decent leads. The purpose of this subverse was to archive the ACTUAL progress of those successful in their investigations linking their lead to the PG elites.

The RULES of the subverse were created to help USERS easily parse information and voat the more useful stuff to the top, since determining what is and isn't legitimate should not be up to a moderator. All mods are supposed to do is see if the title/description follows the rules, and then let the users decide.

If that's not happening, then THAT is what needs to be discussed more than anything. All I ever see complained about are submissions that utterly violate the rules. All it takes is for that beloved, awesome, super PG user to reword/rewrite/resubmit, and yet somehow following the submission rules is impossible for them.

@kevdude did I miss anything here?

Kevdude just informed me that it is possible to block people. Just go to their profile and hit the block button at top right. I suggest that you block the people you feel are harrassing you. I'm going to use it also for serial nonsense posters.

Thank you! I was referring to #2. I wish people would block those who harrass them instead of fighting back and forth. This is supposed to be a research site.

kev, I don't know wtf's going on between yourself and vie, I got pinged so I'm giving it an honest moment of time, for both parties' sake.

Proposal #____: Add a "block" option to permalink/save/source/reply/report that would block all future comments and posts made by that individual.

I did NOT CLAIM YOU THREATENED ME - you are the liar.

NO I AM NOT. The thread above clearly says "something about my children being killed".

That's what the Pim comment says, and yes I believe it was you. Even if it wasn't there has been too much of everything else.

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2016213/9945761

**[–] MrPim -2 points (+0|-2) 1 month ago

You mean like Reading The Rest Of Voat On A Semi Regular Basis You Fucking Ignorant Piece Of Shit. Go back to Reddit. Oh wait. You Cant. Because they kicked your sorry ass out for being a cretin.

So you might take two god damned mi ites out of your day to look around at Voat. Who have been kind enough to host your mostly delusional bullshit. Take thise two mi utes to look around andknow what is going on your Hosts. Those who are giving this party. Insteax of making retarded accusations about shit showi g up thats old.

God damn. I hope all of your childeren, and their chdren are raped by record producing Jews. Youre that dumb, nothing will be lost. Go die back at reddit you worthless piece of shit cock sucki g cunt.

In short, die. No one will ever miss you. Not even your children**

Mr. Pim was KevDude's alt - he came to a thread acting as "owner" and lost his temper. Here is the other one lately, from pizzagatemods, 4 days ago. It was deleted so I don't know how to link it but it is in my submission mentions.

@VieBleu you fucking cunt. LYING about one of the owners of PG in your big post to get us to change things suggests that you have ulterior motives for your proposed changes. (voat.co)

The point of all this is that it became too much lately.

Did you actually link that organ trafficking to the CF, or are you just "helping" by presenting "leads" that others can try to verify?

Because unlimited "leads" is part of why the rules are the way they are. Do your vetting of the leads, then bring it to /v/pizzagate where users wanted an archive of solid info on PG.

Do I need to explain to you what happens when "leads" are spammed all over the board without having been connected to the elite PG pedo ring?

@VictorSteinerDavion @kevdude @Millennial_Falcon @vindicator

Apparently, figuring out what adheres to the rules and what doesn't is some kind of rocket science, and I have a rocket science hair-width laser that I use... or something.

Esoteric, these accusations without support seem like manufactured consensus on something that doesn't actually exist; like support for Hillary Clinton.

https://youtu.be/vPQgfaB3S1c?t=1m18s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_aJ_djrYGY

But by all means pile on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_aJ_djrYGY

I can vouch for the inappropriate rude behavior of kevdude and a few others-its really not in question, asinine behavior is asinine behavior and there should be no problem with a mod stepping in, Voat is great in that you can use a little "French" now and then when it is appropriate, but some go too far-just use good judgement and post the reason why a user was tagged

That's just lazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYHxGBH6o4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKBnAV1bpRE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKBnAV1bpRE

when you thought ccp affected submissions.

Incorrect. That's not what I thought. Again, either comprehension problems or games... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnvHCJA_OyY

I've come round to that. But I'm also interested in bringing the issues here to light.

Games : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2KMnpD46jI

Yeah, he has a point. Why didn't you submit that as a discussion post and provide the link and the explanation together?

Here's one of a couple explanations I have already left on this thread. This particular link has you in it. So you've seen it before. https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10305105

I am constantly having to repeat things with you. Is it a memory issue? Or is it a game?

Did you know that Voat has a PM feature that allows you to have one on one conversations with other users?

No chance buddy. This conversation is going to be aired in a very public arena.

Thank you. Because I've had enough of the snarky posturing around here and I won't let this issue go. Some mods are all over this thread whining on about posters needing to provide evidence of someone following the 'rules' and still having a post deleted. I've done that. AND posted this several times with several people... CRICKETS. What is this gulag ? I also hear lots of whining about how hard these mods work and the ungrateful, lazy posters who post crap ..and so on. Well, my turn - In the time I've been here I doubt there are many, if any, moderators who has put in the time working on pizzagate that I have. My work consists of hours and hours of research, scanning websites, articles, twitter, conversing with other researchers before even putting a post together. Go crunch the numbers and work out how many posts I've contributed in relation to the time as a member here. Go work out how much new information I've brought forward here. I'm not prepared to do this anymore..not under these circumstances.

We need to get this moderation issue sorted. And if that's not going to happen - we need to highlight why.

I never tell people they have no business commenting.

But you tell them everything else - and often not in a civil manner - which is why I asked you to back off when I'm conversing with someone else. But you can't/won't do that. So, let's do it your way. I'll model myself on your example.

I only correct people when they are wrong or are missing the bigger picture. And of course that is evidently too much for people to deal with.

I'm just going to leave that great big pile of ego there for the moment.

As we worked through the rules we examined all the shitposts and set up reasonable restrictions that good faith posters could satisfy with minimal effort but would catch most of the shit. But of course that is too much for some, right? Too much effort to summarize a position in the body and explain the relevance, right?

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10305105

I deleted my response because I lost my temper, knew it and didn't want to carry on with a spat. Well, you've retrieved it - so it seems that you do.

Pity you didn't retrieve the updated version ...

Go fuck yourself.

I was under the impression that was your speciality.

Thanks. As I only joined voat to contribute to pizzagate I was not aware of that. So that makes me confused again as to what changes were made 6 months ago that now makes the use of altering our internal CCP a non-starter for newcomers. Never mind...it's not worth the hassle going on and on about this. I'll come to my own conclusions in time.

Agree.

I AM COMING COMING TO THE COMMUNITY TO TRY TO GET THE HARRASSMENT CAMPAIGN OF KEVDUDE AGAINST ME STOPPED - I NEED HELP

Aside from being all over this thread, calling me a liar, that I've poisoned the subforum, intended to misinform etc, and constant villifying me, I get weird mentions like this in my inbox - https://voat.co/v/AnonTalk/2092172, I had another one thread sent to me by Kevdude two days ago with a headline simply calling me a cunt, something about my children all being killed, or maybe that was the one before, etc from out of nowhere (no prior discussion to generate it). I have tried to just not answer the person, then I get villified for that. I cannot have an exchange without that one becoming insulting usually either eviolently or vilely - Usually I have ignored all this stuff - its been ongoing for months - as you are supposed to be here with a thick skin. I started a pizzagatewhatever community discussion here https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2033192 and here https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2030995 when I was directed to by a mod, who I asked what is the proceedure for getting things stickied for a vote. so we had a vote and generated several issues of importance, which was the genisis of this sticky. yes I crusaded for the CCP idea and we have finally gotten to the bottom of site mechanics and done some testing. We all understand it better now because I asked FuzzyWords and her clear cut explanations helped more than anything else we'd been told. I think all of this could have been avoided if a community announcement had been made on this subforum at the time the CCP restriction was changed. The whole issue is obviuosly of genuine interest to the community, not just me, but I am villified again and again. To paraphrase the Elephant Man, "I am not an Amalek!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PzQAx9wgs

So below is the comment I left on the weird Anonymous thread. Everyone has a tipping point, and after months and especially the last few days, this felt like stalking and this was it. I was just going to cry, answer it and leave it, but something tells me I should show it to everyone. There is something about a predator type isolating a target for further abuse which is a trap I don't want to allow. So the question to the whole place is this - I have had exactly one account and one name on this subverse since I started last December. I know this community knows I am not a multiple liar, an intentional mis- and dis- information spreader, someone who works to cripple/poison/isolate the pizzagate subverse, an investigation derailer, paranoid, dense, ignorant, stupid, a cunt etc Because I have been called all this and more by only one individual on this thread within the last 48 hours who I have not even been in a discussion with. Yeah, it's his right, but I'm asking now can he be asked by anyone he respects to lay off? Anything? Do I have to endure consistent abuse to try to get some positive change on an internet forum that is supposed to help child abuse victims? Do we really want to be a group that has a Punisher In Chief who doesn't even contribute in any visibly significant way to the investigation? Millenial_Falcon is taking a lot of heat from the community, but some heat needs to be turned up on this behavior too - I feel it is way more toxic and poisonous to our efforts than anything I contribute. Edit: Here is an example of the kind of material I contribute - http://archive.is/jXPz8)) I have seen another comment on this thread saying the males beat up on the women here, if you want it I'll search through, it's here. Other people have called for more civility. We need to find it somehow. Thanks for hearing me out, all of you.

My answer to this thread that pinged my inbox https://voat.co/v/AnonTalk/2092172

All I can say is I genuinley wanted the 100 CCP thing back as it was at the beginning, and I represented the majority of the community who felt the same way.

It took the discussion sticky to really work out to everyone's true understanding what was going on. @FuzzyWords explanations were far more detailed than anything I or anyone else had been told about the issue. I highlighted the explanations in posts to the sticky so anyone who reads my comments could see them.

I think it was a good idea to explore the issue so thoroughly which is what putting it up in the sticky is all about. It was not a waste of time. I still think the CCP thing should be implemented, and then it would corral the vote farming accounts and they could be more easily watched.

I don't think the communication about how the site works is strong enough or wasn't on this issue.

The short conversation I had with you KevDude months ago was not of this depth. If you want to debate that, then show the conversation. We did talk about v/all and I started watching it - I literally never saw pizzagate posts on there. For me, our conversation was not convincing.

I don't answer or ping you because everytime I try to speak with you, you insult me. You ask for "open debate" then use it as an opportunity to insult me every single time, no matter what I say. I am in a lot of emotional pain right now already because I have problems in my family. I really am only human and honestly I am crying as I type this because I feel so beat up.

Please stop demonizing me. I try hard to do right and I have worked very hard over the months. I am asking you to please stop calling me cunt and singling me out.

You might notice that the reason we actually have the sticky is because I tried to get some good changes done, I asked Vindicator how to proceed and followed her directions - the pizzagatewhatever post had all the suggestions currently up in this sticky besides the CCP thing, and they were culled from the communitystarting with my effort. I have been a catalyst for changes and this sticky which hopefully will make the subforum better.

Please don't beat me up again here. Honestly just a friendly word would make a lot of difference. I thought about who I could talk to about feeling harrassed, Vindicator, VictorSteinerD etc, but the reality is the only thing I can do is tell you honestly how I feel and it is really beat up specifically by you and only you, over and over again, for trying to use the mechanics of the site the way I'm directed to do so.. That's it I guess.

@VictorSteinerDavion, @kingkongwaswrong, @Vindicator, @cantsleepawink, @quantokitty, @Honeybee, @The1stLantern, @Millennial_Falcon, @ESOTERICshade, @votescam, @AngB23, @argosciv, @equineluvr, @SecondAmendment, @badastrid, @darkknight111, @Dressage2, @Factfinder2, @2impendingdoom, @4_InquiringMinds, @DerivaUK, @sunajAeon, @UnicornandSparkles, @Judgejewdy, @carmencita

Edit -Note this post does not belong in pizzagatemods as @KevDude claims he is not a mod in this thread - https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10307566

EDIT: I am not a liar. I have never even deleted a comment on voat. I am as transparent as it is possible to be. I can get the other comment too if I have to dig that one up, starting with calling me cunt. It was deleted after several hours from pizzagatemods 4 days ago when I didn't bite.

There has been a request to focus on the "children killing" comment in my post. Below is what I was referring to. This is just par usual, and during the conversation it was very clear I was talking to an alt of KevDude - he came to the subverse when I kicked up a stink about all the archived accounts littering the front page, which got it fixed btw. He was civil for two minutes then lapsed into his usual abuse. Since he is denying this so vehemently I put it here, but it is not the main problem. If this is all he'd done, that'd be fine. Its just the continual slander and the campaign that needs to stop. He won't acknowledge his behavior, and it was his campaign that caused that weird anonymous thread in my inbox either directly or indirectly.

He will of course deny it, then call me the liar. I don't care. This isn't the biggest deal by any means, just one of the things that came to mind when I was writing this stuff up.

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2016213/9945761

**[–] MrPim -2 points (+0|-2) 1 month ago

You mean like Reading The Rest Of Voat On A Semi Regular Basis You Fucking Ignorant Piece Of Shit. Go back to Reddit. Oh wait. You Cant. Because they kicked your sorry ass out for being a cretin.

So you might take two god damned mi ites out of your day to look around at Voat. Who have been kind enough to host your mostly delusional bullshit. Take thise two mi utes to look around andknow what is going on your Hosts. Those who are giving this party. Insteax of making retarded accusations about shit showi g up thats old.

God damn. I hope all of your childeren, and their chdren are raped by record producing Jews. Youre that dumb, nothing will be lost. Go die back at reddit you worthless piece of shit cock sucki g cunt.

In short, die. No one will ever miss you. Not even your children**

/\/\/\/\ This is classic KevDude, known by his signature racial hate. Here is the other one lately, from pizzagatemods

@VieBleu you fucking cunt. LYING about one of the owners of PG in your big post to get us to change things suggests that you have ulterior motives for your proposed changes. (voat.co)

submitted 4 days ago by [deleted] to pizzagatemods

I think what is keeping people from doing this, Kev, is that @Crensch has a very strict interpretation of what is PG related, especially when he believes a user is trying to undermine a mod doing his job. He tends to come down very hard on those who raise the issue of what they perceive to be removals of valuable posts, as happened in this example.

It's great when this nails an actual shill or troll, but quite chilling to open communication when it falls on a user with a different sense of what belongs on v/pizzagate.

Heard, thanks for explaining, I know you're not mad, but defending those who feel wronged, I hope this gets figured out.

And thank you, I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just trying to understand how this has gotten to this point, I appreciate your tenacity in fighting for the voaters, there will be community justice no matter what I say, and I will support it ♡

Haha, I'm not triggered. I don't respond, I'm not Jewish and words don't bother me, I believe you are twisting things around because you are upset that MF is being supported, you just admitted that there is concern trolling, isn't that done to burn Mods out and to cause disruption?

I want to be clear, words don't hurt my feelings, baseless ignorant slander and derogatory name calling is not effective for our subverse to thrive. If someone posts a thread about circumcision that is following the subverse rules and is factual with sourced documents and how it relates to Pizzagate, that is awesome, I have never had a problem with that, I belong to 4chan and reddit as well, I thought we were better than that.

Can you define "concern trolling"? I'm guessing it means people pretending to troll to push buttons and to make more of a work load for Mods... seems counterproductive rather than fair and honest conversation.

Thanks for responding

You know the jews are not above criticism here on Voat. "offensive to jews" is not a deletion criteria.

I'm not talking about critisism. If you think someone calling me a Jewess Kike Nigger Cock Sucker in response to a post, or someone posting Jewish slander for NO good reason is appropriate, I think you are not the person who should Edit* promoting demods Edit* (community makes rules). There are some Jews that are evil, and also some Christians, Many Jesuit and Zionists, let's be specific here with some intellectual standards instead of condoning derogatory and racist bullshit trolling just for the sake of free speech

My entire purpose here was to correct false statements about how the site functions.

And my entire purpose here is to post about pizzagate related stories and do investigative research.

Since you understand the mechanics of this place, how about you define a new mission for your talents and find a workaround?

I know you can do this if you apply yourself.

I don't spend much time in other subverses so I've missed any discussions that have gone on about this issue over the last few months. So the first I heard about it was through the sticky here on the pizzagate forum. So, I've been behind the curve in terms of understanding the changes that were made. Setting up a new subverse yesterday and testing it with Esoteric brought me up to speed with the issues. it's very difficult to understand the whole CCP thing without doing that. I can see why there is so much confusion. And also, I think that when we had the ability to use CCP within the subverse as a tool to discourage shills it was quite effective. Maybe there could have been another way to tackle the upvote farms. But it's done now.

I've been reading through all the comments on here about the 100 CCP option. It seems that some people have been discussing it in terms of 100 CCP to restrict newcomers from posting, while others (like myself) saw the rule being applied to downvoting restrictions until a new poster 'proves' him/herself by accruing enough CCP to have that option too. The latter application is how I experienced that constraint when I first arrived here at voat and the pizzagate subverse. So I'll accept that we may have been talking across each other with different perceptions/interpretations of this rule. Note that that Item #1 in the post refers to the 100 CCP DOWNVOTING setting...and I took that at face value based on my own experience.

With the testing that ESOTERIC and I did yesterday it does seem that having an internal sub CCP setting benchmark has a marked effect on the ability of a new user to accrue any CCP within the subverse itself. This seems to me counterintuitive for the user experience within voat, and I wonder what is the rational to have made such a change that would affect all subverses. I see that the explanation given is to prevent upvoat farming and I'm guessing that was a response to what was happening on the pizzagate subverse which I'm sure is quite unique within voat as a shill drawing powerhouse. I can see now why the idea for 'authorized' accounts has been put forward as the subverse response to the problem we now encounter with the global application of the 100CPS rule. That removed our ability here to get new posters to somehow 'prove' themselves. I think the 'authorized account' scheme would be extremely difficult to implement but I do agree that we do need to come up with a solution to protect the subverse.

Part of history of this subverse. Part of how subverse died in power and numbers, and citizens reported all sorts of doxxing and attack in that very high paranoid to divide period. Why many left or never post.

I highly agree and it is sad that you have to post elsewhere and not have it seen because the sub has low numbers of visitors.

99% of the bans were legit shills or nutters spouting gibberish and repeatedly reposting it (a la Amalek). Then he banned a few regulars who tend to fall for the bullshit to see if they were sockpuppets and it put gasoline on the smouldering Removed Submissions fire. The real underlying problem is lack of consensus among users, mods and owners about what is Rule 1 compliant. I really do want to hear detailed points of view on this -- what is, and isn't and why. As just about the only place on the internet this can be investigated freely, I take a fairly broad view of the matter and am willing to let the downvoates or lack of upvoats raise the cream to the top.

Plus, it's more fun debating and debunking the kooky shill posts than deleting them so no one sees what they're up to. Every lame "Look, a spiral logo! Whirlpool is making appliances for the pedos!" post is a beautiful opportunity for goats to outwit the troll under the bridge and display just how far off the MSM narrative about us actually is by critiquing and debating. My experience hasn't been that shills get pissed when you delete their bullshit. They just post more bullshit. They get pissed when you tell them why you could remove it, but are leaving it up and flairing it "Possible Disinfo" or "Debunked" -- and why -- so their bullshit is on the record, accumulating downvoats, and staining their Submission History.

THIS. One and the same in so many ways and are joined at the hip so to speak. Amen.

That's not my understanding of what you were saying. However FuzzyWords seems to have communicated the rules in a format that we all can understand.

That was always my understanding of CCP (apart from being aware that a restriction of 100CCP had been applied globally 6 months ago).

Thanks for vetting us, Esoteric, field testing, and most especially for coming back and stating your findings. :-) Voat is labyrinthine and it's often difficult to assertain how things actually work, what things mean from a feature standpoint, and whether they've changed since whatever thread found on the subject was made. This is all one great big free speech experiment up in here, and it's constantly being tweaked.

Yep. Done. Thanks @FuzzyWords. :-)

LOL. Have to agree with @ESOTERICshade on this @darkknight111. We want to reduce subjective decisionmaking by mods -- that power belongs in the hands of users. It's the whole point of the vote button.

We had a sex offender on here named Rob Robinson who spammed the board dozens of times a day with the same few memes. He used over 300 versions of same alt PizzagateIsStupid. Regular users would get all screechy if his "Podesta Arrested!" meme was left up for more than a little while. Deleting these dozens and dozens of posts coming in every two minutes for two hours was challenging -- especially with modmail filling up with other users complaining. To keep up, you literally had to have the subverse bans page open in a separate window, the ban reason typed in, and be pasting in the new alt, hitting "BACK" and pasting in the next new alt (all with the same five or seven posts). Spam is quick to type into the ban window and in that situation was accurate. Also, no one complained, LOL, because everyone hated it. Two mods couldn't take it and drifted away.

I messaged cynabuns to see if there was any way to get this account banned at v/ReportSpammers as a spammer, since he always linked to his own memes. It didn't meet Voat's definition of adspam, though, so no.

I started put "Rob Robinson frustrated pedo spam" in the ban reason window, got a disgruntled DM denying it was him, and when I kept doing it, he stopped altogether. ;-)

Unfortunately, I think it desensitized @Millennial_Falcon to the use of the term "spam" in the ban reason field. A legit user making a post they think satisfies Rule 1 who repeatedly tries to repost with modifications (guessing at what might be needed) and then receives a ban with nothing more than "spam" in the auto modmail message they get (no explanation comment in the thread), is going to be pretty pissed. Especially if they went to a lot of work. Unfortunately, this has happened numerous times.

On the other hand, there would have been no way to keep up with the PGisStupid shitposts if we had to write explanations before removing every one or banning every alt. No one cared, when it was PGisStupid. Perhaps that was the whole point of those posts -- to wear out mods and tempt us into bad habits that would overflow onto legit pizzagoats.

With no clearly defined policy in the Moderator Rules about when, why and exactly how a ban should be enacted, it's not surprising this situation evolved. I am glad we are discussing it.

Done

I do understand this perspective, but I have to disagree.

The majority of the calls to remove @Millennial_Falcon come from people fostering mob rule because their got their feelings hurt due to M_F deleting their pet topic post.

Overall I'm very disappointed with the slide in quality of the content posted here, plenty of which is overtly obvious campaigns to place content that can be used to discredit in the future.

While I'm all for bringing to light all the organizations and centuries old structures that allow pizzagate to exist, pizzagate is not the whipping horse of everyone's pet prejudice.
Many of the posts about jews are obviously intended to foster hostility and divisiveness, and should be removed as such.
But I welcome any post that points out how members of the jewish faith misuse their authority to abuse children, same as catholic, same as atheism, same as any power structure.
But if the premise of the post is 'x' group is inferior humans and they abuse children, it shouldn't be here. Just cut out the inferior humans part and post the rest.
Keep the bigotry agenda for places that want that discussion.

everyone pleaded with you to relax.

The volume of the complaint doesn't lend credibility, only evidence that stands independent of the accuser.
The irony is not lost on me that the level of evidence to remove a mod is far, far lower than the level of evidence required to make people believe pizzagate is a thing.

his comment seemed to indicate that he would support the wishes of the posting community of the subverse

As a servant of the community this is all I can do, more would be to assume authority that isn't mine to assume.
Do keep in mind that 'posting community' is a term that covers a wide variety of people with different motivations.
Some of those motivations are to disrupt the verse and redirect it away from the investigation.
This is something I watch carefully for and there is a marked increase in diversionary posts and drama stirring.
It is very hard to maintain a focus of effort when the very people you are investigating are actively trying to derail the investigation.

bewildering number of relevant threads that are deleted

The quality of posts on this verse have dropped quite a bit while the volume has increased.
Everyone keeps talking about all these good posts but all I see are poorly sourced unverified conjectures that don't get us closer to bringing to the public attention who is doing these despicable acts to children

Which is ultimately what I care about in the context of this verse. That and bringing retribution to them.
Of course there are many interlinking stories and related information, but they are appropriate to other verses that are focused on those topics.
Talking about them and showing all the webs of corruption is well worth doing in this verse, but the post must have at its heart the primary goal

Yeah. I'd like to know this, too. Never seem a user with that name on here. I think he is thinking of ArmySeer.

The issue could be solved by fixing some Moderation rules, don't think demodding MF is fair, especially like this, I'm really suprised by this coming from the person who pretty much made the rules for v/pizzagate

I agree with this. I also have noticed shills commenting positively in reputable users' posts to the same end. They are very manipulative.

your English is excellent. You need no communication advice from the worst communicator on this subverse.

I see the posts @Millennial_Falcon deletes, and I would delete them too, also, are you aware of how shill infested this subverse is? My first two days modding I had to delete 10 Jew slandering shitposts, not to mention just as many link posts with no explainations or relevancy to the sub. Also, the backlash from users is ridiculous. The level of disrespect some users have when responding to deletions is extremely vile and sad, especially when they have clearly not followed the rules, it 's enough to burn you out, how about trying to help solve the issues with trolls and newbies not following the rules, please stop demonizing, publicly lambasting, and gaslighting the hardest working Mod I've seen on Voat besides * @Vindicator

Edit: * Spelling

appreciate that answer- thx.

The definition of Pizzagate in the sidebar has always included all of this...as long as it can be reasonably connected to child sexual abuse by the elite, not some isolated weird uncle molesting his siblings' kids (of which there are thousands, of course).

I owe you no courtesy whatsoever.

could you try or let me try - I consider this critical. It could solve the whole problem easily.

as far as v/all this argument may be technically true, but in practical terms it means nothing. I have monitored v/all which is what is brought up here all the time (NOT v/all/new). pizzagate posts never show up there, I mean ever. there is one pizzagatewhatever post there three pages back with low upvoats. Makes you wonder if the main PG sub is shadowbanned there, as we know that the goats that hang out there don't care much for PG to begin with. PG subverse would practically speaking lose nothing.

I was just reading through this thread again to see peoples opinions on the different rules in question and came across a glimmer of hope..

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10309026

Have you tried accruing CPP outside the subverse as a New User? If they accrue points outside the subverse, I assume they can come back in the subverse and downvoat at 101 right? if that works then what the hell, we just require that newbs look around voat a bit - go to pedogate for example and build that one up some. People will do it, it will dampen shills, that's all we want.

Could you share or PM the link?

They would have to go to other subs to get their 100 CPP points. That would kill our new user count before long.

So, for the sake of being extremely open minded - is it really that big a deal to go and comment elsewhere on voat first, take a look around? Maybe they could help test. As long as it was clearly explained to newbs I don't think that would actually drop real new users who are interested, but it would put a major blockade up for shills. Actually makes me laugh thinking of them having to peddle their new accounts elsewhere.

You don't err on the side of letting the votes decide, there have been times where you allow your own opinion to guide enforcement of Rule 1.

I let a lot of stuff slide that is tangentially relevant, but as I am human and doing most of the work of modding a 15k-subscriber sub by myself, I don't really get much time to weigh a removal, so in some cases, I do remove a post here or there that maybe would have been appropriate to leave up, but only rarely.

And you have been a bit ban happy by Voat's standards.

Basically one mod for a sub with 15k subscribers doesn't leave much wiggle room for coddling outright willful rule-breaking, and yet I've always been quick to forgive and unban.

Remember how we were requiring mods to explain each deletion? This was for your protection as well.

Again, coddling. No time for it. I always give a little explantion if it's not self-explanatory.

Probably isn't up to you at this point.

Yes, it is. Whether I resign or not is definitely up to me. Whether or not O's remove me never was up to me. If O's remove me without a viable replacement, it may doom the sub to be an utter shithole, not to mention allowing a noisy minority to dictate.

@Cresnch @kingkongwaswrong @VictorSteinerDavion @Vindicator @Honeybee_

ah thank for that - I did not know that. You basically answered my ? and I just asked another. I'll wait for that. Again, I really do appreciate you weighing in on this, it is difficult to get straight answers from some of the highly emotional men around here.

There are a TON of users in this sub calling for your head now and not all of them are Amalek.

A TON "calling for my head"? A wee exaggeration. It's a handful of accounts, and there is no telling how many are shills. The way some of them behave, it certainly serves the shills' purpose. It's downright fucking disgusting and ass-fucking-backwards considering how much work I have put in for this sub. In my view, these users are mad (or pretending to be mad) that there is ANY level of modding at all beyond removing adspam (i.e. either shills or butthurt that their personal focus, e.g. abortion, isn't considered relevant enough). Also notice that the complainers mostly provide no proof for what they're saying. The examples they give for stuff that they think should be relevant is obviously NOT relevant according to the pizzagate definition. So you think I'm "beyond saving" because I enforce the rules? Open a discussion about the pizzagate definition if people think it should be expanded. By the way, Voat is probably beyond help in the long run if the Admins don't allow mods to IP ban users like Amalek. Having to re-ban the same user constantly is ridiculous. Also, I would be GLAD to resign as a mod if there were someone else consistently available to mod during daytime. I've been the only person willing to actually do the work and I get SHIT ON FOR IT. FUCK THAT.

@Crensch @Vindicator @sensitive @Honeybee_ @kingkongwaswrong

Okay, technically it is possible. Thank you.

To understand better, how is it that by limiting downvoating - which does help deflate new account shill downvoating brigades - does that open Voat up to attack? what is the nature of that type of attack? They would be downvoated by the many users already there, for example. Isn't Voat going to be open to attack at all times no matter what the CCP earning potential is because of the no email/new account policy? thank you.

Hello -

At this point, the situation as you describe it in your first paragraph is quite well understood (by most anyway). The question becomes one of what is technically possible, which I detailed in my ping to you. Looking forward to hearing you weigh in. thanks.

May I ask ... WHY does the link come in the title?

Why not do it as every other thread is done ...show a topic and then give the link separately?

Would that change any of the problems?

I vote yes to The ONE HUNDRED

They're in my ass where they're supposed to be.

Thanks.

Then communicate that to @Vindicator and not to me. S/he is the one that's asking whether we support or do not support it.

No to everything you just said.

Pls see my previous comment.

Okay, you're all over the place today, aren't you? First you have to accumulate points by not using the subverse and now you have to accumulate points that way?

Let me just state it this way: I'm supporting for setting the 100 point barrier before a member can post a submission.

You be you; I'll be me.

Yep.. I know exactly what you're saying.

I couldn't agree more.

I haven't assumed that. That's why I worded that sentence in the way I did. Semantics Kev, semantics. @VieBleu

Proposal #1

Here's a link to a post that @kevdude made to my subverse demonstrating the fact that he does not understand the point that a number of pizzagate contributors (including myself) have been trying to make on this forum about the 100 CCP issue. https://voat.co/v/pizzagateTNT/2090563/10307686

Some genuine input from the OP would be appreciated.

I am an experienced Voat user who is watching a group of people try to limit the visibility of PG on the site by lying to users about how the site functions.

I sincerely hope you are not including me and calling me a liar Kev.

Btw, are you a pizzagate moderator

No

Well you've made your position clear. Now if you don't mind, I'd like it if you left it to @Vindicator to respond to my queries.

cc : @VictorSteinerDavion

My in sub minimum is set at 100. I had to do that because I had a couple of trolls.

Second - comment and have people upvote you then watch how your global ccp does not increase-

Why on earth would the site be programmed to do this? So there is no point in subverses having the function to alter in sub CCP. Makes no sense.

maybe you can make a real subverse about a specialized content area that interests you and help voat grow

that's pizzagateTNT - for people who understand technology and business

Btw, are you a pizzagate moderator ?

CHECK OUT MY SUBVERSE PIZZAGATETNT AT https://voat.co/v/pizzagateTNT

It's da bomb!

Cheers :) :) :)

Proposal #2

In the thread mentioned above, user @GoodGodKirk suggested we create a Pizzagate Introductions sister-sub,

is only further compartmentalization of the pizzagate subverse.

and close submissions to those who have not introduced themselves

Could we please have clarification on the suggested format for this 'authorization' process? How can people vote on a proposal if we are not clear about the format? @Vindicator

"approved submitters only"

How on earth would that work ??

Wait a minute!

It wouldn't matter if the coding didn't work. If 100 CCP's weren't attained the moderator could simply delete the offending post under Rule Whatever number it would be.

Nice, clean, and simple. Your argument no longer applies.

No, "WE" do not keep telling me, "YOU" keep telling me.

I'd like to hear what Vindicator has to say.

I thought I would put this where people who matter might see it @vindicator

Since the Gods have descended from Olympus, may I humbly petition that @Millennial_Falcon be struck by a bolt of lightning and removed as a Mod - if only for a trial period, say 10 years - I jest, a month should prove the point one way or the other.

The point being whether he is a positive or negative influence on the [most successful?] subverse on voat: whether he is the Prometheus of Pizzagate who has tricked the Deities.

@crensh @kingkongwaswrong - a couple more pings for you to ignore...

@Vindicator, is what is alleged true? I understood that if the 100 Contribution Comment Points weren't reached, that you could not make a submission. Here is someone saying that the proposal wouldn't do that. So in Rule 1, would making someone attain 100 CCP prevent someone from posting a submission?

Because it has zero effect on submissions.

But that's the entire point of having a barrier of 100. If it works for up and downvoating, it could work for preventing submissions.

There is a proposal to limit posting ability to "approved submitters only".

ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL I'D SUPPORT THIS! WTH is going to decide who is approved? No, it should be a free forum. Flakes are welcome and so are geniuses. You never know who's going to contribute. And if the only thing preventing you from getting on board the "100 barrier proposal" is that it doesn't effectively prevent posting, then the coding needs to change so it does. As stated above, there is a 100 barrier for up and downvoating that works magnificently. When I joined, I didn't realize you needed to accumulate a certain number of points, and made several unsuccesful atttempts before catching on and starting to contribute by commenting.

Already explained. Provide a direct link or screenshot of the pedo accusation. Pizzagate is not about sweatshops.

Why not give me the opportunity to make those links more explicit if you weren't satisfied? Other moderators do.

I AM giving your that opportunity. I asked you to repost with direct link to the pedo claims, or in discussion post. You can't "Edit" a direct-link post. SO the ONLY option is delete and repost. So can you explain WHY you are throwing a fit?

MILLENIAL_FALCON and his RAPID FIRE DELETIONS

Don't remove bad posts "fast enough," people complain. Remove bad posts "too fast," people complain. See what I'm saying? How soon I happened to see your post is irrelevant. Just post as a discussion post. Is that so hard? Do you hate discussion posts or something?

It would prevent shit posts from dominating the "Hot" page and knocking off legitimate posts. And I'm not seeing anyone going ballistic about the barrier to Up or DownVoating. It's the same methodology.

Again, what remedy is there to shills who have been a member of ten minutes posting ten ridiculous submissions and knocking legitimate posts off the "Hot" page? I've yet to see an alternative plan.

And I should add, that I do theoretically agree with the no barrier submissions decision, but it is being used effectively against the members of pizzagate by shills. So please offer an alternative.

But there used to be a 100 CPP barrier, so is this how it worked?

As I remember it, you have the same barrier before you can up or downvoat anything. I distinctly remember furiously responding to posts to enjoy this privilege. I didn't have to do that in another subverse, I commented here in #pizzaagate. It's why I'm having a hard time believing/understanding why it would be different in this case.

If what you're repeating is true, then it would need to change to being able to comment, etc. in pizzagate. It makes no sense having to go elsewhere, and I wouldn't do that either. It would kill new membership. As for the subverse not showing up, I don't have a problem with that. I came here from Reddit (it does suck) for the express purpose of posting in the one subverse. In other words, I sought it out. I would say most members felt that way, in that, they knew why they were coming here and not putzng around.

If the above does not make sense to you, then what would your solution/remedy be to shills posting ten thousand shit posts to remove informative posts from the "Hot" page? What would be a viable alternative?

I vote yes with @VieBleu. Pizzagate thread has been censored to death, too many people banned and too many good threads deleted for no good reasons. Something needs to change.

Hell, I told someone to check out the research and they didn't want to create an account, and the thread couldn't even be found w/out them having to log in in the search engine. WTF...

So what's so hard about resetting them then?

Bullshit. I've done it, at least twice (thanks to our dear friend MF who banned me for spamming after reposting a legit topic ONE time). Takes a freaking long time, but it can be done.

Hello. They want the subverse to die. That's why it's run the way it is. Nevermind suppressing upvoats, etc. It was on fire and now it's an ember. This wasn't a free forum for more than a week or two. We've just been swimming upstream since then. Remember when voat changed hands? Yeah.

Ok guys, while you may like what I suggested in option 2, it's just not feasible ATM. There's no way to automate it and people don't like waiting for approval especially if they have new info to share.

I like the 100ccp for now, cause it's easy to implement and some people just need to be selective and thought provoking on their responses.

Fuck a hostile takeover. This isn't Reddit. You want to run this sub? Fuck you bitch, make your own and build it. Those who take over subs are no better than the malware groups buying up old chrome apps and filling them with malware. Go start your own pizzagaters sub and gtfo of here.

Hahahaha I know right.

Posting between the two is pointless. The traffic is here. Maybe the terms of what we can post here that explains to the mods that Pizzagate is pedogate and things like giving hormone blockers is as relevant to Pizzagate as discovering CIA fund Isis. This is a big fucking pedo pie and it's about time MF understands that!!

Hahahaha. NO. I have my own mind and my own opinion. I can read your replies with my own eyes and make my own conclusions.

I had no idea some of these functions (like block user) existed.

Now then, for the million dollar question, the main source of all my concerns.

What do YOU think we should do regarding all the false flag baiting we've been assailed by?

Over the past two months, there have been two attempted false flags against v/pizzagate. The first was a week long affair around the time of the "CNN Doxxing Incident". The second occurred within 2-3 days after Charolettesville.

Both of them being via bombardment with threads and comments designed to plant evidence that the v/pizzagate community as a whole is a bunch of nazi sympatheisers as part of a net objective to discredit us.

In the aftermath of Charolettesville, we now that that the left is willing to DOX people who they believe to be "racist" (basically anyone who disagrees with them). If these attempts to false flag bait and plant evidence are successful, then it is most certainly a given that WE will all collectively be doxxed. Given what we're up against (the deep state), if we got doxxed, we are all "dead men walking".

At this moment, there are users on this sub who are acting as agent sabateurs trying to false flag bait us. I can name them too.

I've been on a constant "yellow alert" regarding attempts to false flag us. The community as a whole is greatly concerned and I suspect we need a permanent solution to these agent sabateurs.

Thank you for reading my concerns regarding the safety of the community.

@Vindicator, thanks for taking this on, I'm glad to see the community taking a more active role in it's own governance.

As usual there's going to be a bunch of short term drama over much of this from all sides and my advice would be to give enough time for this discussion to run it's course.

As usual my intention is to be as hands off as possible on this and to remain in a oversight capacity.
I am watching for takeover attempts via rules churn and I'll say it before it gets asked; no, there will be no changes to the status of the owner level mods - no additions and no removals.

@kingkongwaswrong can change this anytime, but @Crensch and I are in consensus about the role of [O] level mods at this time.

Let me know via ping when the conclusion of this is happening so I can be aware of what has been decided by the community.

Item #1: Should we turn on the 100 CCP Downvoat setting (Doesn't prevent shitposts; Removes us from being visible outside this sub)

Yes, I'd be for this.

Theoretically, I love the idea of someone just able to post when they join. It's what attracted me to Voat ... well, that and because you're not reddit. But I see the pattern as others do. If there's a legit post gaining traction, or just pissing off The Cannibal Elite, shills start posting a series of the most inane, ridiculous posts ever. Only five votes get them from New to Hot and that pushes off the legit post right off the main page. So only for this reason I would be behind this.

As for the rest, I have no strong feelings on mods/ownership, etc. I do wish MF were less rapacious in removing threads, but I can't see where s/he is the devil incarnate. Oh, wait ... there is something else. It's this:

Proposal #7: Update the sub Moderator Rules to clarify how, when and why users can be banned from v/pizzagate

Yeah, I'm not getting this banning stuff. I was shocked at a couple of the members who were banned. I don't know the particulars, but as far as I know, they weren't shills and posted some very substantial submissions not once, but numerous times. They also partake in discussions and leave comments so they are active.

Yes, I would love to see clarification because I still don't know what happened to those members who were affected.

Thanks.

Thank you for your specificity. I was responding to another user asking about kkww.

I was responding to your statement where a new account is concerned. Everyone already here and over 100 in-sub would be able to downvote, but no new accounts would ever be able to do so because raising the limit now shuts off the ability to accumulate any in-sub ccp.

Now shuts off the ability. Now. Don't be so insulting to @viebleu when they weren't aware, and nor was anyone else it seems, that the way you used to prevent shills had been changed and can't be changed back as viebleu is proposing.

So not deterrent for shills and NO SEARCHBAR. I wonder who needs to be questioning who's motives here.

I linked you to an announcements thread that explained exactly that.

You linked me to this: https://voat.co/v/announcements/1639027 I'm still trying to correlate what this thread says with what you are saying.

So vote against it.

I have.

What rule is that? There was never a "rule". Are you trolling or just dense?

Who's being dense now ? Of course we had a 100 CCP constraint previously, that's a rule. That's why we're discussing whether we should reinstate it or not ! Jeez, it's the Twilight Zone around here.

Who are you talking about? We are evidently not talking about the same topic.

Completely agree!

Fair points, I guess the principle involved stopped me considering the currently existing options for dealing with problematic users.

100 CCP was one of our most potent anti shill tools and they stole it from our toolbox without discussion of any kind. It needs to come back

I already explained this to you in a PM conversation. There is no evidence linking any of these things to pizzagate. Until there is actual evidence of a link, it is all empty speculation. The point of this sub is to focus on the scandal we have exposed and pull on the REAL threads we have found. The pizzagate definition clearly states "child sex trafficking by elites..." The only people who benefit from the "conspiracy bloat" of all these speculative topics are the guilty people we are trying to investigate. If you have EVIDENCE linking pizzagate suspects to any of what you mentioned, that would definitely be allowed to be posted (but it would need to be something truly suspect).

How is a bit of basic respect for one another, subjective?

Seriously, being an arsehole just for the sake of it(in a hostile, non-joking manner), is not protecting freedom of speech, it's abusing it. If someone thinks your "joke" is a bit brash or just inappropriate, is it really that hard to just tone it down a tad(without going off the rails and accusing people of censorship)? (I don't mean to ask you directly or imply anything about you, just speaking broadly)

Please assume that anything @viebleu has ever told you about site mechanics is wrong.

What is your obsession with @viebleu ? It seems that you cannot make a comment on here without bringing him/her into it.

If I seem like a dick it is because he refuses to listen when people try to explain it to him and he shoots off his mouth and confuses others.

I'm still trying to understand the argument you put forward about the 100 CCP rule. Perhaps you should focus on explaining that.

@ESOTERICshade

I'm sorry to laugh bc the subject is not funny/but there is a big grin plastered on my face after reading this :)

I concur also!

Plus the topic of giving children hormone blockers was EXCELLENT. It all ties in.

I concur !

My argument is that we need that as a separate rule for the pizzagate subverse as well, like it was before,because it is easy to get that in any subverse. If CPP points are awarded for contributions within the pizzagate subverse then it requires some effort and commitment to the subverse. Therefore a bit of a deterrent to shills and trolls.

Perhaps he or @Vindicator could clarify/explain.

Is he referring to this ? :

Users no longer earn CCP in Private Subverses

Why has this suddenly appeared? Is it going to be under every comment?

Report Content

Spam (Voat Rule)
Content violates spam guidelines
Illegal (Voat Rule)
Content contains or links to content that is illegal
Dox (Voat Rule)
Content contains personal information that relates to a Voat users real world or online identity

https://voat.co/v/WebbWatch/2088125/10296068

That's exactly what I've been saying.

I think what a lot of people believe is that it would keep shill accounts from posting threads until they get to 100. From your explanation in the OP that doesn't seem to be true anymore. Am I understanding this correctly?

No, new users can post. After that I have no idea what's happening as the rules were changed 3 months after I got here. Perhaps you can figure it out: https://voat.co/v/announcements/1639027

My vote regarding #1 is YES to the requirement of 100 CCP earned in this subverse before downvoating - this was taken away in a top down decision WITHOUT INFORMING THE COMMUNITY AND WITHOUT POLLING THE COMMUNITY. It worked well before, so restore this.

A poll on this was taken recently here - https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2030995

Judge for yourself while reading the pushback and insults below from mostly one source - a source btw that NEVER posts submissions here or contributes to the investigation,. With the 100 CPP in place on this forum new users would be able to gain upvoats for comments within the forum, just like the experience most of us had at the begining of this subverse. EDIT: This is an old comment at this point. This is not the case. Sort comments by "New" and read through to see what has developed in our community understanding of this issue. Newbs would have to earn comment points outside the subverse to reach 100. After 100 they coud downvoat as well. It is a small and actually rather simple reversion that is worth a try. Do we actually as a community have the power to vote for changes or not? We are always reminded about how the community determines its own rules, but trying to get even a minor change meets draws in huge opposition from mostly one voice who actually doesn't contribute submissions and investigative work here - ever, and who can now be expected to villify and malign with the usual sophistry, circular logic and insults as per earlier comments.

Edited to Add re v/all: EDIT: this is still true, v/all never shows pizzagate posts - shadowbanned there? Pizzagate "hot posts" never surface on v/all. Go and look through and you won't find one.

If you look three pages back today, you will find exactly one pizzagatewhatever post with five upvoats "We Are Stronger Then They Are" - that's it. HARDLY a hot pizzagate post. Talk about misinformation being spread. The argument that "everyone will see them" (pizzagate posts) on v/all is highly strange, as the mod Vindicator has been informed that in fact pizzagate posts don't seem to appear there yet Vindicator carries on merrily making this essentially false argument. Just playing dumb?

Propaganda much? You decide.

Fuck off yourself you foul-mouthed narcissistic punk-this is a discussion-not your own private pimp council

Proposal X: If possible, minimum CCP before "Share a link" button may be used.

Why? This would mean that only users who have a history of quality posting, would be able to just 'quickshare' a link without having to summarize why they are sharing it by using the "Discuss" button instead. Because users with a high CCP rating can generally be trusted, I feel that this will help to, if nothing else, set apart the genuine link shares from the click-bait/shill/troll ones, by way of being able to recognize the pool of high-CCP link sharers.

Geez Louise there are a lot of rules. I don't care what is done -- just try to keep it simple.

Proposal #1: NO, in light of the information provided. Proposal #2: YES. Proposal #3: YES. Proposal #4: YES. Proposal #5: YES. Proposal #6: YES. Proposal #7: YES.

Thank you for the link. I was unaware such changes have been made since I joined. I need to take some time out to see how this would affect new accounts on pizzagate.

Why are we going round in circles?

I get that there is a restriction in place for new accounts across the whole site. So what?

But we need restrictions on the pizzagate subverse. It is not like most of the other subverses. There are lots of shill accounts here. And therefore that needs more control here.

Now, please explain to a thicko like me why anyone who joins Voat today and participates in the pizzagate subverse will never be able to accrue enough points to downvoat. if the 100 point rule is reinstated here. If you can't then point me to a page or link where I can read the new rules that make this a fact.

I may be wrong, but any [O] can remove him. Perhaps he does deserve to keep his historical sinecure having set up the site in the first place. Reminded here of Aesop's Frogs - http://fablesofaesop.com/the-frogs-pick-a-king.html

v/pizzagate is the most visited [and successful and controversial?] subverse on /voat - correct me if I'm wrong - hence @crensh involvement.

Hey @Crensh ! Where is my v/georgewebb subverse. It has been months since my takeover request

That even though it may be frustrating for newbies to immediately downvoat, it's a deterrent for shills. Genuine accounts don't mind this minor irritation. It's an understandable restraint.

But with the in-sub limits raised you would never be able to downvote in this sub.

What do you mean? When we had the 100ccp rule in place on this subverse, once I particpated enough on here, there were enough points to downvoat if I wanted to. Maybe I'm being dense today..but I don't understand how you arrived at that conclusion.

I think you missed the point that badastrid was making.

I'm still trying to get my head around this.

You still need 100ccp to downvote anywhere on the site.

I wasn't aware of that. So that means that someone can create an account and go to any subverse on VOAT - without contributing anything sensible to the pizzagate subverse - to get round that, right?

ask yourself how many legitimate users engage in this behavior

Not many. And that's the point. We have a huge number of shills and trolls here. Ask yourself why.

is it worth shutting off the visibility of the sub?

I agree that's a huge issue. I wasn't aware that would be the case. However, we have had some recent posts here that were hugely popular and I've seen plastered all over Twitter that I personally thought were not up to our critical standards here and still have the potential to come back and bite us in the ass. So, I'm sitting on the fence with that point.

New accounts that join to participate will never be able to downvote in the sub, no matter how high their ccp gets sitewide, becaise they won't be able to accumulate any ccp in the sub.

I was a newcomer here once. It didn't take long to get past the 100 ccp hump. People who are genuinely interested in participating in terms of downvoting recognize that the rule was there for a reason. I have participated in other forums in the past. Not a huge number, but a few. I have stayed far longer on Voat than anywhere else because the rules and moderation helped to keep the trolls at bay, in comparison to other forums. The 100ccp rule I think largely contributed to that. I think this forum is in decline because of the inevitable contamination with ever increasing trolls and shills. A sign of the success here. It's also acted as a bit of a honeytrap for intelligence gathering. But once that's done, this place will be allowed to go the way of others.

Coming back to the point about visibility, platforms like Twitter and Youtube are the more effective forms for getting information to a larger audience. people on youtube videos for example are just grateful to watch something and be informed. A platform like this one is for deeper research. It's where new information emerges to be pushed out to other platforms. If you open it up too much, and not protect that legacy, then the shills and trolls flood in with glee.

It would help to alleviate the downvoting of important posts by newly created shill accounts or by accounts that do not contribute anything but are solely here to block genuine discussion. When that restriction was in place the forum was pretty good at self regulation and the posts at the top were a truer reflection of the priority given to investigative threads. It is by no means perfect but eliminating it made things worse imo.

I'm totally in favor of keeping the 100 CCP to voat. I found it frustrating when I was new, and so should all the shills.

IIRC, I could have sworn that #1 was about 100 CCP in order to make a submission. I remember that being discussed.

Would certainly prevent PGIsDumb types from ever wrecking havoc ever again, especially when comboed with #2.

I am in support of the "100 CCP to make a submission proposal.

Proposal 2: Aye

Proposal 4: Aye

Proposal 5: Aye

Have some ideas.

Proposal 8: Clarify the definition of spam.

This is a matter that is frustrating a lot of users in regards to bans. As such, it would be good to include some definitions for the sake of clarity.

Proposal 9: "Reset Bomb" in regards to users with multiple accounts.

A signature tactic of shills is to have more than one account. Typically 3+ accounts. This tactic involves using the multiple accounts to give their posts upvoats in order to have more ready access to downvoats and more effectively resist downvoats. Likewise, shills use multiple accounts as part of "downvoat bombs" by using these accounts to downvoat the same person multiple times (one man downvoat brigades).

A "Reset Bomb" (named after the MO of an antagonist from the videogame Kid Icarus: Uprising) would entail taking those with multiple accounts (3+) and banning all but one (the one with the lowest CCP and SCP). Using "spam" as the reason.

This proposal cripples shills ability to "game the system" as a way to bypass the defenses provided by other proposals.

Proposal 10: Basic Human Decency Standards (good idea from 4InquiringMinds)

We are supposed to be a community about protecting the "little ones". It can be very demoralizing having to constantly deal with people who are "assholes and proud of it". Certain misogynistic people here are quite abusive to the female members of this community, which is a BAD thing because quite a lot of us here are women.

Under Human Deceny we could implement a crackdown on "False Flag Baiting". Intentionally trying to bait false flags shows an utter lack of basic human deceny via having zero concern for the safety of the community as a whole. Given that the left is willing to DOX people who disagree with their views as seen with Charolettesville and the attempted false flag against us two days later, it is therefore obvious that those who try to bait false flags against us are simply evil people.

The forum is inundated with dross now. Bring back 100 CCP. It creates a better power dynamic as well for the subverse curation. Mods do a difficult job but some are better than others..for obvious and also, less obvious reasons. Bring back Item 1.

PROPOSAL #1

REINSTATE the 100 CCP for downvoating requirement. There was a noticeable deterioration in this forum when this was taken away.

That rule created a more equitable power balance between voaters who research and post and the moderators. Of course mods perform an essential function on this forum. But the workloak is immense due to the volume of traffic. I believe that 100 CCP gives the real contributors on the pizzagate forum the ability to self-regulate and helps enormously with the curation of this subverse.

Point of concern RE Introductions/Authentication:

What can be done about the possibility of faked introductions which are intended to pass a shill off as a genuine pizzagater(newbie or otherwise)? How might we 'authenticate' users without compromising their identity?

Count my vote exactly the same as what @VieBleu has selected. I think he makes very legitimate points.

Proposal #7: Update the sub Moderator Rules to clarify how, when and why users can be banned from v/pizzagate

This probably needs a quick sticky of it's own for a full discussion. Possible requirements might include: warning users that repeatedly disregarding the submission rules is a violation of the Voat User Agreement and will result in a ban, including links to removed posts demonstrating the pattern and warnings, and leaving more than a one word reason for the ban in the "Reason for Ban" box.

Please vote and comment.

Proposal # ____: Define in the submission rules what "spam" is.

It's true that "adspam" is listed as a violation, but I'm assuming that's different and has something to do with advertising. People (including me) have been banned for plain "spam" with no explanation. Tell us what it is so we can avoid doing it.

"@VieBleu characterized the 100 CCP limit to downvoat as a "figleaf" and implied it limits people's ability to submit material. The first point is accurate, the second is not."

I never got the impression from what VieBleu wrote that a 100 CCP limit to downvoat would also limit the ability to submit material.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment,

Rule #1, what is and isn't pizzagate should be reconsidered with more allowance toward pedogate and related current political issues. Also the rules should allow for duplicate posts to be deleted (or somehow combined?) if they are essentially the same topic repeated, probably due to lag. For example, there were several posts about Roland Bernard not being dead, and a bunch of Taylor Swift posts today that it would have made sense to be consolidated. I get that they don't violate the rules but it does clutter things up and splinters discussions.

Proposal 5. Yes, hide the share a link button.

Item 1: (-1) So far as I understand it, CCP is actually pretty good at making it hard for dv-brigades to do their thing - any changes which lessen the efficiency of CCP to prevent unjust downvoating, are a bad idea imo. (that said, I'm not claiming to know the exact details of how CCP works, beyond what is explained here)

Proposal 2: (+1) see comments of proposal

Proposal 3: (unsure) see comments of proposal

Proposal 4: (+1) Definitely worth discussing, as at times there are posts which seemingly break rule 1(when compared with the reasoning behind other posts being taken down) which are allowed to remain active. I'm not trying to criticize anyone there by the way, it just makes sense to try to get everyone on the same page with this one.

Proposal 5: (+1) I have nothing to add here, fully agree with the reasons stipulated.

Proposal 6: (+1) I support this on the grounds of transparency and improving the quality of the subverse abroad - nothing else to add though.

There are forums that require members to be respectful of each other. It's not about 'ma free speech' it's about showing respect. The name calling that devolves into such childish spewing of the worst terms ppl can think to call each other not only furthers division (a cabal goal) but gives the appearance of being no more than the moronic groups fighting in the streets. Brutish behavior should have no place on a forum that is supposed to be dedicated to saving the children. It is after all about them/not who can have the foulest mouth, rack up the most downvotes (for some this is a goal) and generally create discord among ppl that are supposed to be dedicated to a higher ideal. The name calling devolves into predictable daily dramas, energy is wasted in acting blatantly stupid, ppl leave in a huff and come back. And we talk about the school play 'out there' ?????

"Organized downvoat brigades can effectively silence those with low CCP"

Like every great free speech platform.

Why not ELIMINATE THAT OBVIOUS TACTIC by simply BANNING someone with enough actual complaints -- a spiteful downvoat is not good cause, much fewer really want someone silenced and gone.

I can't believe you've spent hours on this. Why not just dump the rules and let people sort themselves out. Try it for a month and see what happens.

Added Proposal #6 to the text of the post.

I thought he was going to say M_F had resigned. Sadly not.

Proposal #6: Restore the original Mod Rule requirement that mods always must leave a brief comment explaining why removed post violates a submission rule, not just citing the rule number

Please vote and comment.

Proposal #1: Should we turn on the 100 CCP Downvoat setting (Doesn't prevent shitposts; Removes us from being visible outside this sub, Stops users from accruing CCP here)

Please vote and comment

Proposal #2: Turn on the "Only allow submissions from authorized users" feature & Authorize users who introduce themselves in new sister-sub

Please vote and comment

Proposal #3: Change mods/owners (various ideas)

Please vote and comment -- be specific about what you are voting for or against please