*** Our usual sticky, the Executive Summary of Pizzagate Evidence, can be found in the sidebar and here. ***
There's been a great discussion over the past few weeks in v/pizzagatewhatever about what users would like to change in order to improve the functioning of this subverse, so we'd like to take an official poll to gauge sentiment. I will describe details here, and list individual proposals separately in the Comments below; please upvoat or downvoat each of them and/or leave a subcomment to voice your opinion on the matter.
Item #1: Should we turn on the 100 CCP Downvoat setting (Doesn't prevent shitposts; Removes us from being visible outside this sub)
The primary concern discussed is cutting down the number of shill and troll posts by limiting downvoats to those who have 100 Comment Contribution Points. Please be aware there was quite a bit of misinformation contained in that discussion. Here are the facts:
Kevdude explained to me how CCP works:
CCP are points we get for comments. The middle number at the top is your sitewide ccp. Once that hit 100 you can downvote. You can not downvote anywhere if you are under 100.
In the sidebar there is the minimum ccp to dv in a sub. That refers to your in-sub ccp which is ccp you generate on the comments you make in that sub. (which is why under that you see "your ccp for this sub"). That does not mean new users with 0 ccp can downvote. It just means tgat you don't have to generate points in the sub to dv there. If you raise the sub minimum 2 things happen. Users can no longer generate ccp for the sub and the sub is blocked from v/all.
@VieBleu characterized the 100 CCP limit to downvoat as a "figleaf" and implied it limits people's ability to submit material. The first point is accurate, the second is not.
To clarify: turning on this setting has NO IMPACT on the ability to submit or comment. It's main effect is to prevent our material from being seen outside this subverse (something many shills and several pedos who frequent this board would love to have happen!) and stop each of us from accruing Comment Contribution Points for our comments within this subverse. This could have the unintended effect of severely limiting those who primarily contribute to v/pizzagate! CCP is an important buffer -- if people downvoat your comments into the negatives, you lose the ability to comment. Organized downvoat brigades can effectively silence those with low CCP. Currently, SCP -- submission contribution points -- have no effect on the ability of your account to take action on Voat (other than demonstrating you are an actual contributor).
Based on this, I believe turning on the 100 CCP downvoat minimum would unnecessarily empower the shills and trolls -- the exact opposite of the intended effect, which is why @Crensch @Kevdude @VictorSteinerDavion and others who have been pinged about this have said no. However, because users have requested it, I am going to include it in this poll as item number one. Please make an informed vote.
Proposal #2: Turn on the "Only allow submissions from authorized users" feature & Authorize users who introduce themselves in new sister-sub
In the thread mentioned above, user @GoodGodKirk suggested we create a Pizzagate Introductions sister-sub, and close submissions to those who have not introduced themselves. I believe that would be FAR more effective and have less negative consequences for legit users than turning on the 100 CCP Downvoat option. However, it would require we stop allowing submissions from everyone until they make a post in the new subverse. The downside to this is that it would radically downthrottle content in the short term. This is a huge change and would need a demonstration of major support from the community, but could be a very interesting experiment! Please vote and comment below.
Include any thoughts you may have about how to get the most out of an intros sister-sub to hinder shills and support legit Pizzagoats. For example, before approving submitters, we could require they subscribe to all five (now six) sister subs -- so that stuff from v/pizzagatewhatever ends up on their front page and people aren't so reluctant to post speculative or unsourced stuff there.
Proposal #3: Change mods/owners (various ideas)
In VieBleu's threads, various ideas and proposals were put forward, including adding me as an O. I have mixed feelings about that and feel really weird putting it in a sticky. I am including it, though, because I said I would do this sticky based on what was discussed. Two new facts have come to light however since that thread that may make this a moot point:
Proposal #4: Revisit what is and isn't Rule 1 compliant (directly related to Pizzagate)
This topic has caused massive frustration for users and mods, and will require it's own sticky, as there are a number of issues and this could dramatically shift what is allowed to remain on the board. For now, please voat about whether we should discuss this, and leave a comment about why stuff that's removed now should be included, or why not, so those thoughts can be included in a future sticky.
Proposal #5: Hide the "Share a Link" button
The low effort required to post in v/pizzagate via Share a Link, as well as the inability to edit post headlines (Link posts are ONLY headlines) to satisfy the rest of the submission rules make this idea very attractive to mods. We have to take down numerous otherwise legit posts because people don't take the time to write a clear, accurate headline that explains how the link they are sharing is directly related to Pizzagate. We can't remove the functionality, but we can hide the button. This would go a long way toward reducing unnecessary post removals on technicalities.
Those are the five main proposals as I saw it. If I've missed any, please include them in the Comments below. Give them a headline like I have done (put a "#" with no space at the beginning of the headline, and a double carriage return after, some text describing why you think the change should be made, and ask people to vote on it.)
Edit: formatting
view the rest of the comments →
Vindicator ago
Proposal #3: Change mods/owners (various ideas)
Please vote and comment -- be specific about what you are voting for or against please
Factfinder2 ago
I'd like to relieve Millenial_Falcon of mod duties and give them to VieBleu if s/he is willing.
4_InquiringMinds ago
Vote yes...Vindicator I think you would make an excellent owner. As for mods it 'seems like' too much power is in the hands of mods whereby if a grudge match gets going someone is banned and either has to suck up or go to another mod for consideration. It likens to the old adage/absolute power corrupts absolutely. Plus I think mods should be respectful of members. Recently I helped a member, grandma, who is here learning bc she wants to protect her grandkids. She is not internet savvy. She was banned for posting support for 2 members recently banned/did not realize she could not do this and a previous post that was removed but she had no clue about the process. When she contacted MF (at my suggestion) the first pm was very disrespectful. Upon her reply MF took the time to read her previous comments and realized she was not Amalek. If MF had bothered to ck comment history this error never would have happened. I think it is too easy for a mod to ban w/o having some requirements like cking out the members post history. So I vote for mods having requirements in the banning process. And had I not reached out to this member (that I only 'met' that day) she would still be banned, have not a clue why or what she could do about it. Do not assume everyone is internet savvy and look for the value in that member before hitting the ban button and replying with such intensity. To MF credit the ban was lifted but it should not have happened in the first place. We are here to help each other and in like kind help the children. There is too much animosity going on imho. Please please please keep in mind that many members are not internet savvy and try to help them learn the terrain.
rodeo13 ago
I vote yes and agree Vindicator would be a great owner.
Strawtinman ago
Agreed. Seen this with many, in every construct there is, including alleged victims. Pgate to to be stopped needs numbers not pedestals of tyranny.
Vindicator ago
Thanks for reaching out to grandma. That was awesome. :-)
argosciv ago
(unsure) Hard to weigh in on this one, having read the pm kkwr received, I must say that I'm not convinced that everyone the sender named is a shill - I've seen quite a few people make rather 'large' claims of moderators/users x/y/z being shills, but, in my own reading of comments, only a few really stand out as obvious - perhaps I'm not being discerning enough, though...
Silverlining ago
@Millennial_Falcon should be encouraged to resign. He spends hours here and adds nothing, just upsetting people.
I would be happy to resign ownership of https://voat.co/v/MillennialFalcon in his favor, if he leaves off moderating this subverse.
He would get his life back.
And @kingkongwaswrong might as well move on at the same time. Absentee landlords are so last century, if not the one before that!
kazza64 ago
have you seen how many posts mf deletes ? it is a shocking amount on a daily basis. i wont post anymore because he will delete my post and then wont even tell me why or help me modify it. at least the other mods have manners. except for crensch who just abused me.
cantsleepawink ago
Normally I would stay out of this type of conversation. But I've reached my end with MF too. It seems that someone's ego is starting to get out of control. We are supposed to be a community. I appreciate that mods have the most difficult job but some emotional intelligence is needed. Some researchers here are doing some heavy lifting too. I would put myself in that category with the hours and hours, weeks, that have moved into months of research. It is not acceptable to be treated with contempt and I do not understand why the senior members are allowing it because it then looks like they condone it.
Here's an exchange between MF and myself which demonstrates that I followed all the rules that he insisted needed to be followed but yet, he still deleted a post of mine that needed to be seen. At the end of the exchange, there is no response, just downvotes on my comment which contains a screenshot providing proof that I had followed the rules. https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10313984
This is not acceptable. And it is also not moderation.
rodeo13 ago
I agree. This is not acceptable.
Millennial_Falcon ago
pick one.
There are two kinds of people who get upset by my moderating. One is shills/trolls like Amalek. Another is paranoid types (a great recent example is @hojoruku) who think I'm trying to censor them because I ask them to take 2 minutes to add needed info to their post. Well, to be fair, there's a third issue. Some users simply don't understand that actual evidence is important and it gets buried and hidden if we allow the slippery slope of tons of barely-relevant posts.
equineluvr ago
Your INCONSISTENCY is frustrating, MF. You need to enforce the rules the same way for everyone instead of giving your buddies a break that others don't receive.
Millennial_Falcon ago
What buddies are you even talking about? I do enforce the rules as evenly as I reasonably can. There is a lot of gray area (particularly with Rule 1), as there is irreducible and unavoidable subjectivity. I try to follow the spirit of the law. Rule 2 and 3 violation are almost always easily fixable. Even Rule 1 violations are often fixable, but those are the ones where it is more subjective. Actual evidence indicating possible pedo elite activity ALWAYS stays up. That is the most important thing.
Strawtinman ago
Buddies would include freearmy. I am at the point of wondering who is sexing or bfucking the army.
equineluvr ago
Everyone here knows who they are: DarkMath, Jem777, Jangles, and Dressage2. There may be others, but these four posters in particular I have seen several times.
Instead of IMMEDIATELY DELETING their submissions, you give them a "pat on the back" for their efforts, explain what the problem/violation(s) is/are, and give them an opportunity to rectify it/them.
Everyone else's submissions go straight into Deleted Submissions so they have to look there to find out what was wrong.
We have all seen this and talked about it, so please don't deny that you do this.
Millennial_Falcon ago
This is just flat-out false. DarkMath is banned. How is that a pat on the back? All of those accounts are in fact on my radar, since Amalek pings them onto his shitposts all the time. I don't give anyone special treatment. If your post breaks a rule, I just delete it and name the broken rule(s). That's all I have time for, but I also always work with people who message me directly or ping me (never been in habit of checking subverse mail). I am always happy to help people bring a post into compliance if it has potential, although the rules are not hard to understand.
ThePuppetShow ago
This is not true.. I've pinged you and messaged you on several occasions trying to get answers on why you deleted my post and was completly ignored. Here's an example..
ThePuppetShow ago
@crensch Do you want me to write this up for pizzagatemods or can you just evaluate it here? I'm sick of being called a shill by this mod. MF is blatantly lying here, I've never had a PM conversation with this person. I'm a bit leary because I feel like I'm already being targeted by this mod and this will certainly make it worse.
Millennial_Falcon ago
I had a PM conversation with you about that post. Don't lie. I can come back with screenshots.
ThePuppetShow ago
I'm not lying.. Come with it.
You deleted the first thread..
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2012562
This is all I got..
I sent you this PM and got no response..
Since I heard nothing I reposted with more links after getting some advice from other users.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2012768
This time you deleted it and told me..
At this point I was frustrated so I sent out some PM's to other users asking this..
I followed some advice I got and posted it again. The last time you deleted it you added this..
This still made no sense to me, because the threads I linked were still active, but I knew I wasn't going to get an answer out of you so I gave up because I didn't want to get banned for spam.
We have never had a conversation through PM that I recall or have record of. Correct me with those screenshots if I'm wrong.
Millennial_Falcon ago
I cant find it in my sent folder, but I remember for sure we discussed it somehow, possibly through subverse mail. This is proof we discussed it:
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2039109/10059234
Here, you basically admitted to being an Amalek alt:
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2030734/10017636
ThePuppetShow ago
You're full of shit. What I meant was I was working on pissing off MMIQ. I was literally blasting all the shit that alt was posting and you know it. Don't try to link me to your boogie man, clown. You're probably running all those alts. That would be a good reason why you didn't want to delete them..
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2048944/10105229
Millennial_Falcon ago
Riiiiiiiiight. And how does that add up, given that you had just accused ME of being Amalek (i.e. MMIQ)?
ThePuppetShow ago
Everyone knows who the liar is. Nice try.
I'm the one who handed you the whole thread of alts you didn't want to ban for some reason. Those included MMIQ and your other alts.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2042853/10080866
I know you're trying to set me up.. BTW the only thing this proves is that you sent this when you deleted the thread..
That's why you can't produce our conversation in the screenshots you promised. We've never had a conversation through PM.
UgTr2 ago
@Silverlining is right, you should resign. Banning people for a single comment which draws attention a contentious issue is not about spam, regardless of what you put in the deletion log.
Millennial_Falcon ago
Thanks for the input, 8-day-old account, but I haven't done any such thing. I ban users for spamming posts (i.e. reposting already-removed posts) that break the rules (and sometimes that takes the form of the user linking their post in a new post complaining about the removal). I have been cracking down on Amalek (aka spamalek) alt accounts, though, and I may have been a bit overzealous, in that I experimented with "test-banning" accounts that are inexplicably supportive of his shitposts, to see if those accounts are just sockpuppets or not. I have always been reasonable about bans. If the user is well-intentioned, I will always reverse the ban, often without even being asked.
That said, I would be happy to step down if there were someone to take my place. As it is, I've been the only one willing to do the job consistently and persistently.
UgTr2 ago
Actually, you have. This account is relatively new because you banned me as Ugly Truth after I posted this
How are you going to know if they are well intentioned or not if they're banned? You could have simply looked at their post history.
Millennial_Falcon ago
lol. you practically asked me to ban you ("will MF ban me too?"). Jem777 was banned to test if s/he is an Amalek sockpuppet. I did the same to test your account. If you had messaged me to ask me about it, I would have reversed the ban right away. Account history doesn't really prove anything. Amalek knows how to create fake personas.
Judgejewdy ago
That's BS, mf. We shouldn't have to plead our case to you when the ban is bogus to start. You did the same thing to me early on when the sub started, conveniently just about the time that i got my 100pts to start downvoating. Who knows how many others you did that to, who just ended up giving up. It took a while to build my points back up under a new name. And your "reason" was extremely bogus. However, I'm well convinced "you" have been replaced by an underling now that this sub is more or less the shit hole you (pl.) intended it to be. So congratulations. Or, rather, tell your boss congratulations. The new MF isn't as petulant as the original. Dont forget to say hi to HenryKissinger.
Millennial_Falcon ago
Yes, I'm a new MF. I'm on version 8.0, now. Have you not understood that I am AI? HA HA HA HA. (robotic laugh)
Strawtinman ago
Was done to many in cahoots with free army. Hence, voat started of full of expansive research and many left. Read my other comment above. Been watching this from week one.
UgTr2 ago
Asking a question is not the same as requesting a ban. The reason that people get banned should be because they're not abiding by the rules rather than some other arbitrary criteria. Account histories give a good indication of intent, proof of intent is a difficult thing to measure. If your test was even meaningful, then why haven't you unbanned me?
Millennial_Falcon ago
Because you never messaged me in response to the ban. Hence, I concluded you either don't log into the account very often (sockpuppet) or you don't care much about it (sockpuppet).
UgTr2 ago
Why would I message you about it when we've been discussing the issue on this thread?
Strawtinman ago
MF banned and let many be posted on a shill list in the begginning of voat pizzagate. Most on the shill list had many posts of research subverses and comments full of research. Kingkong did this to. It turned alot of people off for they gave many hours of research.
Meanwhile, shills were not banned and bullies. This amalek thing is a paranoid level and bullshit excuse level. Amalek was a issue from years ago. The mods allowed profile Freearmy to list shills with the most insane illogic that did not prove shills, but proved free army has no logic. All the support to freearmy by the mods and it makes one wonder if a mod is controlling narrative or sexing freearmy.
A number of researchers that endured the above had connected pgate to public health care, fosters, organ trafficking; including "mango" wikileaks emails.
A number of ones wrongfully called shills that gave a lot of research were also reporting that were doxxed, hacked, gang stalked and more.
I have been observing from week one of voat and reddit, chan sites. Many just observe as have adult responsibilities and have witnessed the habits that occur here and the misery put on ones that gave so much work and effort to the cause.
The post by MF above, using H as a example in negative. Clearly, H is exhausted by all the labours to the cause, including in the courts that MF has never done.
There is clearly, multi control narrative, intimidate real citizen researchers on here. And it started on week one.
There are many that care of Pgate and want it stopped. Many do not include sabotaging assholes in their daily lives, so do not post on here for much fuckery on here.
UgTr2 ago
Yeah, MF started with "spamalek" in the ban log at around the time that he banned me.
Still, I don't know of anywhere better for people to post their research. I guess system-level fuckery is just a fact of life when you're trying to talk about the issues related to pizzagate.
Strawtinman ago
Surprised how many missed the Bair blood early troll on here that broke many laws to number of citizen researchers. Nathanwblair. Now Australia pedo is being shown.
Vindicator ago
Strawtinman, are you talking about ArmySeer and his sillyass subverse he created to attack pizzagate investigators, v/pizzagateshills, which he would ban people from when they'd never posted there to make them think he was a mod here and they had been banned from this sub?
I systematically debunked his bullshit dozens of times, until he lost it and started spamming removed submissions under multiple alts and got banned. He now keeps a low profile and tries to undermine in comments as DeathTooMasons. I call him out on that, too.
You're making some tall claims in this comment. Would you mind adding some links to what you are referring to?
Strawtinman ago
Partially sarcasm ( the sex part, maybe, ha ha). Yet, voat positivity and numbers did crash during that.
And Many mods were posting with Freearmy constant attack posts. Thats just fact. Sure gave cocksuck appearance.
Vindicator ago
You're talking about @ArmySeer? Still not clear on who you are referring to.
Strawtinman ago
No worries. Is old news. Just pointing out early redflags. Nathan was the Australian one. Blair family.Newbies not know early redflags and many oldies never poated but dud watch all on voat, reddit, 4chan etc.
Silverlining ago
Vin - you mean infested with criminals? [lags]
Vindicator ago
Looks like Voat is laggy -- let's see if your original comment gets merged with the edited version automatically.
Vindicator ago
Silverlining, you made a duplicate comment. Can you remove this second one to keep the thread uncluttered? Thanks.