By Popular Demand: Proposed improvements to v/pizzagate (pizzagate)

submitted ago by Vindicator

*** Our usual sticky, the Executive Summary of Pizzagate Evidence, can be found in the sidebar and here. ***

There's been a great discussion over the past few weeks in v/pizzagatewhatever about what users would like to change in order to improve the functioning of this subverse, so we'd like to take an official poll to gauge sentiment. I will describe details here, and list individual proposals separately in the Comments below; please upvoat or downvoat each of them and/or leave a subcomment to voice your opinion on the matter.

Item #1: Should we turn on the 100 CCP Downvoat setting (Doesn't prevent shitposts; Removes us from being visible outside this sub)

The primary concern discussed is cutting down the number of shill and troll posts by limiting downvoats to those who have 100 Comment Contribution Points. Please be aware there was quite a bit of misinformation contained in that discussion. Here are the facts:

Kevdude explained to me how CCP works:

CCP are points we get for comments. The middle number at the top is your sitewide ccp. Once that hit 100 you can downvote. You can not downvote anywhere if you are under 100.

In the sidebar there is the minimum ccp to dv in a sub. That refers to your in-sub ccp which is ccp you generate on the comments you make in that sub. (which is why under that you see "your ccp for this sub"). That does not mean new users with 0 ccp can downvote. It just means tgat you don't have to generate points in the sub to dv there. If you raise the sub minimum 2 things happen. Users can no longer generate ccp for the sub and the sub is blocked from v/all.

@VieBleu characterized the 100 CCP limit to downvoat as a "figleaf" and implied it limits people's ability to submit material. The first point is accurate, the second is not.

To clarify: turning on this setting has NO IMPACT on the ability to submit or comment. It's main effect is to prevent our material from being seen outside this subverse (something many shills and several pedos who frequent this board would love to have happen!) and stop each of us from accruing Comment Contribution Points for our comments within this subverse. This could have the unintended effect of severely limiting those who primarily contribute to v/pizzagate! CCP is an important buffer -- if people downvoat your comments into the negatives, you lose the ability to comment. Organized downvoat brigades can effectively silence those with low CCP. Currently, SCP -- submission contribution points -- have no effect on the ability of your account to take action on Voat (other than demonstrating you are an actual contributor).

Based on this, I believe turning on the 100 CCP downvoat minimum would unnecessarily empower the shills and trolls -- the exact opposite of the intended effect, which is why @Crensch @Kevdude @VictorSteinerDavion and others who have been pinged about this have said no. However, because users have requested it, I am going to include it in this poll as item number one. Please make an informed vote.

Proposal #2: Turn on the "Only allow submissions from authorized users" feature & Authorize users who introduce themselves in new sister-sub

In the thread mentioned above, user @GoodGodKirk suggested we create a Pizzagate Introductions sister-sub, and close submissions to those who have not introduced themselves. I believe that would be FAR more effective and have less negative consequences for legit users than turning on the 100 CCP Downvoat option. However, it would require we stop allowing submissions from everyone until they make a post in the new subverse. The downside to this is that it would radically downthrottle content in the short term. This is a huge change and would need a demonstration of major support from the community, but could be a very interesting experiment! Please vote and comment below.

Include any thoughts you may have about how to get the most out of an intros sister-sub to hinder shills and support legit Pizzagoats. For example, before approving submitters, we could require they subscribe to all five (now six) sister subs -- so that stuff from v/pizzagatewhatever ends up on their front page and people aren't so reluctant to post speculative or unsourced stuff there.

Proposal #3: Change mods/owners (various ideas)

In VieBleu's threads, various ideas and proposals were put forward, including adding me as an O. I have mixed feelings about that and feel really weird putting it in a sticky. I am including it, though, because I said I would do this sticky based on what was discussed. Two new facts have come to light however since that thread that may make this a moot point:

Proposal #4: Revisit what is and isn't Rule 1 compliant (directly related to Pizzagate)

This topic has caused massive frustration for users and mods, and will require it's own sticky, as there are a number of issues and this could dramatically shift what is allowed to remain on the board. For now, please voat about whether we should discuss this, and leave a comment about why stuff that's removed now should be included, or why not, so those thoughts can be included in a future sticky.

Proposal #5: Hide the "Share a Link" button

The low effort required to post in v/pizzagate via Share a Link, as well as the inability to edit post headlines (Link posts are ONLY headlines) to satisfy the rest of the submission rules make this idea very attractive to mods. We have to take down numerous otherwise legit posts because people don't take the time to write a clear, accurate headline that explains how the link they are sharing is directly related to Pizzagate. We can't remove the functionality, but we can hide the button. This would go a long way toward reducing unnecessary post removals on technicalities.

Those are the five main proposals as I saw it. If I've missed any, please include them in the Comments below. Give them a headline like I have done (put a "#" with no space at the beginning of the headline, and a double carriage return after, some text describing why you think the change should be made, and ask people to vote on it.)

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VieBleu ago

I AM COMING COMING TO THE COMMUNITY TO TRY TO GET THE HARRASSMENT CAMPAIGN OF KEVDUDE AGAINST ME STOPPED - I NEED HELP

Aside from being all over this thread, calling me a liar, that I've poisoned the subforum, intended to misinform etc, and constant villifying me, I get weird mentions like this in my inbox - https://voat.co/v/AnonTalk/2092172, I had another one thread sent to me by Kevdude two days ago with a headline simply calling me a cunt, something about my children all being killed, or maybe that was the one before, etc from out of nowhere (no prior discussion to generate it). I have tried to just not answer the person, then I get villified for that. I cannot have an exchange without that one becoming insulting usually either eviolently or vilely - Usually I have ignored all this stuff - its been ongoing for months - as you are supposed to be here with a thick skin. I started a pizzagatewhatever community discussion here https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2033192 and here https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2030995 when I was directed to by a mod, who I asked what is the proceedure for getting things stickied for a vote. so we had a vote and generated several issues of importance, which was the genisis of this sticky. yes I crusaded for the CCP idea and we have finally gotten to the bottom of site mechanics and done some testing. We all understand it better now because I asked FuzzyWords and her clear cut explanations helped more than anything else we'd been told. I think all of this could have been avoided if a community announcement had been made on this subforum at the time the CCP restriction was changed. The whole issue is obviuosly of genuine interest to the community, not just me, but I am villified again and again. To paraphrase the Elephant Man, "I am not an Amalek!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PzQAx9wgs

So below is the comment I left on the weird Anonymous thread. Everyone has a tipping point, and after months and especially the last few days, this felt like stalking and this was it. I was just going to cry, answer it and leave it, but something tells me I should show it to everyone. There is something about a predator type isolating a target for further abuse which is a trap I don't want to allow. So the question to the whole place is this - I have had exactly one account and one name on this subverse since I started last December. I know this community knows I am not a multiple liar, an intentional mis- and dis- information spreader, someone who works to cripple/poison/isolate the pizzagate subverse, an investigation derailer, paranoid, dense, ignorant, stupid, a cunt etc Because I have been called all this and more by only one individual on this thread within the last 48 hours who I have not even been in a discussion with. Yeah, it's his right, but I'm asking now can he be asked by anyone he respects to lay off? Anything? Do I have to endure consistent abuse to try to get some positive change on an internet forum that is supposed to help child abuse victims? Do we really want to be a group that has a Punisher In Chief who doesn't even contribute in any visibly significant way to the investigation? Millenial_Falcon is taking a lot of heat from the community, but some heat needs to be turned up on this behavior too - I feel it is way more toxic and poisonous to our efforts than anything I contribute. Edit: Here is an example of the kind of material I contribute - http://archive.is/jXPz8)) I have seen another comment on this thread saying the males beat up on the women here, if you want it I'll search through, it's here. Other people have called for more civility. We need to find it somehow. Thanks for hearing me out, all of you.

My answer to this thread that pinged my inbox https://voat.co/v/AnonTalk/2092172

All I can say is I genuinley wanted the 100 CCP thing back as it was at the beginning, and I represented the majority of the community who felt the same way.

It took the discussion sticky to really work out to everyone's true understanding what was going on. @FuzzyWords explanations were far more detailed than anything I or anyone else had been told about the issue. I highlighted the explanations in posts to the sticky so anyone who reads my comments could see them.

I think it was a good idea to explore the issue so thoroughly which is what putting it up in the sticky is all about. It was not a waste of time. I still think the CCP thing should be implemented, and then it would corral the vote farming accounts and they could be more easily watched.

I don't think the communication about how the site works is strong enough or wasn't on this issue.

The short conversation I had with you KevDude months ago was not of this depth. If you want to debate that, then show the conversation. We did talk about v/all and I started watching it - I literally never saw pizzagate posts on there. For me, our conversation was not convincing.

I don't answer or ping you because everytime I try to speak with you, you insult me. You ask for "open debate" then use it as an opportunity to insult me every single time, no matter what I say. I am in a lot of emotional pain right now already because I have problems in my family. I really am only human and honestly I am crying as I type this because I feel so beat up.

Please stop demonizing me. I try hard to do right and I have worked very hard over the months. I am asking you to please stop calling me cunt and singling me out.

You might notice that the reason we actually have the sticky is because I tried to get some good changes done, I asked Vindicator how to proceed and followed her directions - the pizzagatewhatever post had all the suggestions currently up in this sticky besides the CCP thing, and they were culled from the communitystarting with my effort. I have been a catalyst for changes and this sticky which hopefully will make the subforum better.

Please don't beat me up again here. Honestly just a friendly word would make a lot of difference. I thought about who I could talk to about feeling harrassed, Vindicator, VictorSteinerD etc, but the reality is the only thing I can do is tell you honestly how I feel and it is really beat up specifically by you and only you, over and over again, for trying to use the mechanics of the site the way I'm directed to do so.. That's it I guess.

@VictorSteinerDavion, @kingkongwaswrong, @Vindicator, @cantsleepawink, @quantokitty, @Honeybee, @The1stLantern, @Millennial_Falcon, @ESOTERICshade, @votescam, @AngB23, @argosciv, @equineluvr, @SecondAmendment, @badastrid, @darkknight111, @Dressage2, @Factfinder2, @2impendingdoom, @4_InquiringMinds, @DerivaUK, @sunajAeon, @UnicornandSparkles, @Judgejewdy, @carmencita

Edit -Note this post does not belong in pizzagatemods as @KevDude claims he is not a mod in this thread - https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10307566

EDIT: I am not a liar. I have never even deleted a comment on voat. I am as transparent as it is possible to be. I can get the other comment too if I have to dig that one up, starting with calling me cunt. It was deleted after several hours from pizzagatemods 4 days ago when I didn't bite.

There has been a request to focus on the "children killing" comment in my post. Below is what I was referring to. This is just par usual, and during the conversation it was very clear I was talking to an alt of KevDude - he came to the subverse when I kicked up a stink about all the archived accounts littering the front page, which got it fixed btw. He was civil for two minutes then lapsed into his usual abuse. Since he is denying this so vehemently I put it here, but it is not the main problem. If this is all he'd done, that'd be fine. Its just the continual slander and the campaign that needs to stop. He won't acknowledge his behavior, and it was his campaign that caused that weird anonymous thread in my inbox either directly or indirectly.

He will of course deny it, then call me the liar. I don't care. This isn't the biggest deal by any means, just one of the things that came to mind when I was writing this stuff up.

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2016213/9945761

**[–] MrPim -2 points (+0|-2) 1 month ago

You mean like Reading The Rest Of Voat On A Semi Regular Basis You Fucking Ignorant Piece Of Shit. Go back to Reddit. Oh wait. You Cant. Because they kicked your sorry ass out for being a cretin.

So you might take two god damned mi ites out of your day to look around at Voat. Who have been kind enough to host your mostly delusional bullshit. Take thise two mi utes to look around andknow what is going on your Hosts. Those who are giving this party. Insteax of making retarded accusations about shit showi g up thats old.

God damn. I hope all of your childeren, and their chdren are raped by record producing Jews. Youre that dumb, nothing will be lost. Go die back at reddit you worthless piece of shit cock sucki g cunt.

In short, die. No one will ever miss you. Not even your children**

/\/\/\/\ This is classic KevDude, known by his signature racial hate. Here is the other one lately, from pizzagatemods

@VieBleu you fucking cunt. LYING about one of the owners of PG in your big post to get us to change things suggests that you have ulterior motives for your proposed changes. (voat.co)

submitted 4 days ago by [deleted] to pizzagatemods

darkknight111 ago

Honestly, we as a community NEED to have an honest heart to heart regarding civility.

NOT as a rule for that can be abused, but as a community enforced "Gentleman's Agreement".

Crensch ago

You snowflakes are HOSTED by one of the few places on the internet left for the kind of people that don't give a fuck about your SJW tone-policing. It's not happening, at least at the [O]/kevdude levels.

If you want your bubble of Milgram Obedience to not get popped, follow the rules and stop supporting the shills attacking PG and its mods.

darkknight111 ago

*facepalm

If you're calling me an SJW then you have completely missed the point.

"Gentleman's Agreement" is a reference to the concept of "The Golden Rule", one of the most ancient philosophies on how people should live their lives. I think its origins are either Greek or New Testament era. Gentleman's Agreement is purely voluntary in nature. It is NOT formally enforced by rules. That's why we have the voat arrows.

"Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself".

Disagreement is perfectly acceptable under this philosophy. Take apart arguments, but be constructive in your criticisms. You may even sway your opponent to your side that way.

Crensch ago

If you're calling me an SJW then you have completely missed the point.

I doubt it.

"Gentleman's Agreement" is a reference to the concept of "The Golden Rule", one of the most ancient philosophies on how people should live their lives. I think its origins are either Greek or New Testament era. Gentleman's Agreement is purely voluntary in nature. It is NOT formally enforced by rules. That's why we have the voat arrows.

Keep that shit to yourself. The Golden Rule is a white-shaming tactic (because we're the only ones capable of feeling shame) and nothing else. Voat, and the real world, don't give a fuck about your feelings.

"Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself".

Do I look like I don't want to be treated in kind? I WANT someone to come in here and rip my words to pieces and show me to be an absolute fucking liar. PROVE ME WRONG and do it with as much invective as you can muster.

Oh wait, nobody can, because I'm not wrong.

Disagreement is perfectly acceptable under this philosophy. Take apart arguments, but be constructive in your criticisms. You may even sway your opponent to your side that way.

As someone that sways plenty of people already, I don't need sissies that can't weather some insults hurled at them to understand me. I don't WANT weakling faggots on my side.

Here. Enjoy realizing that you aren't actually about having your opinion swayed on anything you consider a sacred cow. Enjoy figuring out that you're a weak-willed faggot that would be on rEddit if only they hadn't BANNED PG, and that the website full of people that want to RIP YOU TO PIECES textually are the only ones willing to host you bunch of sissy-fuck faggot SJWs.

Vindicator ago

I don't WANT weakling faggots on my side.

Frankly, the kids this subverse wants to help don't need weakling faggots on their side, either.

argosciv ago

I'm probably overstepping my confidence here and going to cop a proverbial slap upside the head, but, I'm going to admit to downvoating this and why:

Frankly(not mocking), I believe that any genuine help is good - the more eyes the better. Obviously this whole thing is only the beginning of a wake up call that many are in desperate need of/experiencing for the first time; they're coming here confused and possibly otherwise heavily influenced by the propaganda of the left - do we not want these people 'waking up' or 'taking the red pill' in the first place?

We all had to start somewhere, whether coming from leftist shite or wherever our experiences lead us, prior to culminating in coming here to help/learn/contribute (or shill, but, fuck them, they stink from a mile off most of the time)

Some people need further waking up once they get here, their eyes are still blurry, is my point.

~ with respect.

EDIT: From a business perspective too, think about it, the more eyes, the more chances voat might receive donations - especially with the objective of a group like this, surely there's exponential chance of donations for such an altruistic cause?

EDIT 2: Downvoat removed, I wasn't thinking on this from all angles.

Crensch ago

While I understand your point here, allow me to highlight an alternative hypothesis I believe has merit:

Milgram Obedience is often touted as one solid reason good people commit atrocities. Not wanting to rock the boat, and just playing off of feefees instead of cutting through the bullshit is the hallmark of a weak-willed faggot.

We don't need more MO people around - we had them running shit for many decades, and that's why everything is so fucked up. "Oh, let's not rock the boat and say the racist shit that we want to because it's impolite"

I posit that MO faggots are more likely to get in the way than help. "More eyes" doesn't always mean a better outcome, or more efficient - just look at the idea of so-called think-tanks.

As for Voat donations - either Voat makes it, or it doesn't. Changing what Voat is for shekels is a great way to end up with rEddit, and a userbase that is just as useless as rEddit... giving tens of thousands to a fucking bus driver and acting like heroes for it.

argosciv ago

In retrospect, you're right, my comment was a bit uh... credulous?

Thank you for providing hindsight.

Crensch ago

I would say simply lacking a step back for perspective at worst.

Cheers to you, fellow niggerfaggot. You've shown yourself to be an extremely reasonable goat thus far; I look forward to our future dialogue in this glorious goat pen.

argosciv ago

Much hate, nigger <3

Crensch ago

I'm probably overstepping my confidence here and going to cop a proverbial slap upside the head, but, I'm going to admit to downvoating this and why:

Not that a downvoat is really a big problem, but I thought I'd mention it on principle. Do what you will, but I thought it prudent to revisit.

argosciv ago

hah, just removed the one I apparently gave you too - same reasoning I'm guessing, can't remember fully though.

EDIT: Oh wait, I remember, it was literally in response to the following:

If you're calling me an SJW then you have completely missed the point.

I doubt it.

Crensch ago

That's hilarious. Happy to keep that dowvoat, truly, but I am curious about your motivation for giving it in the first place. I see the text, and that I responded to someone wanting a "gentleman's agreement" that I consider to be cancerous, but I'm not picking up what you're putting down about why, I think.

argosciv ago

i need to get back to you, big shit going down

argosciv ago

right, yes, removing now.