https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2033103/10051146
I honestly don't know if this subverse has just become one big larping circlejerk, but the users upvoting this crap should feel ashamed for doing so. This (probably)Shareblue 3141592653 user had 3 submissions on the front page. Embarrassingly irrelevant bullshit on the level of the random hobo or nigger kidnapping and raping a kid.
THAT IS NOT WHAT /v/pizzagate WAS DESIGNED TO DISCUSS
http://archive.is/dik44
1- African children (nobody cares, not linked to elites)
2- Afghan Forces (nobody cares, not linked to elites)
3- Yazidi people (nobody cares, not linked to elites)
4- Random CP website (not linked to elites)
It's obvious that this user does not give a FUCK about the rules of the subverse, but had the gall to ask for a deletion by MF to be overturned. Nice D&C job if there is indeed intent.
I don't blame @Vindicator for his response, @kevdude agreed with his conclusion, and I had to delete the first paragraph of my response, agreeing with them, linked above because I, too was leaning towards that end. I only decided that this was designed to change the rules to allow sliding threads once I began looking at their submissions.
I don't know if there were any other reasons this particular play was made beyond relaxing the rules for slides and possibly some D&C, but even if there might have been some merit to the claim that lower-level military might be useful to investigate, not allowing it seems like the smart move.
Hermesthriceborn ago
@Crensch has an uncanny ability to assume and assert his personal opinions as absolute fact in threads similar to this. Army intelligence and spec ops has a ton to do with this issue... Cathy o brien has much to say about that. Hell ever heard of michael aquino? Come on crensch you are clearly subverting this individuals attempts and statements with your own elitist views as if they are written in stone.
Tldr; @Crensch is a cry baby mod who confuses his opinons with fact.
argosciv ago
Hey everyone, I just wanted to pop my head in to say hi here...
much <3
I'm going to go over this, again, as soon as I have the mental energy
@Vindicator @Crensch @kevdude
VictorSteinerDavion ago
This is my conclusion as well, the efforts to disrupt this subverse have increased of late, and much of it according to the play book
argosciv ago
even moreso, lately... they're targeting me directly in some instances.
Vindicator ago
I think there's been a misunderstanding @Crensch -- @3141592653 is not an enemy of v/Pizzagate
I'm sorry it took me so long to make this comment; I was occupied with recruiting new mods and some real life responsibilities and it took me a few days to gather all the links for this. A number of key facts were missed in this unfortunate bruhaha which ended up becoming a takedown campaign against a longtime v/pizzagate contributor by a v/pizzagate Owner, and it's my fault. Here's how it went down:
Please note: It was ME, not 31415, who requested the attention of O's.
Unfortunately, for some reason, Crensch saw 31415 as a disrespectful forum sliding shill rebelling against the mods and went into punishment mode, going back through the user's history and deleting multiple posts that mods had left up as Rule 1 compliant. Not only was the user attacked, but the reason I pinged the O's in the first place -- clarity about how restrictively we must interpret the rules -- was not resolved.
This whole incident was a total shitshow. And it's symptomatic of the fundamental flaws of the current set-up of v/pizzagate. @VictorSteinerDavion @Kevdude @Heygeorge @sensitive @Millennial_Falcon
No O's are active, contributing members of the community who understand what the community cares about or what direction the users themselves want v/pizzagate to take. There is no one to set the direction when mods have differing views. And unlike most subs on Voat, users don't get to let their votes decide, because most posts are removed. This is a real problem.
My sense is, most users' desire is a somewhat relaxed interpretation of what is Pizzagate related. Are the Awan brothers related? It's too soon to tell, but users sure want to talk about it. Are the whitehouse leaks and firings related? Again, too soon to know but people want to talk about it. Who decides? Shouldn't the community decide?
Can we please address this? Otherwise, what is the point of the shill-shackling rules if they lead to all of this frustration and division among mods, regular legit users, and absentee-landord Owners? We should be working as a team in here kicking pedo ass, not tripping each other up.
bb22 ago
As soon as you deny something is when I go ahead and figure that's actually true, FagDickator. Stop acting like you're not an evil douche.
Vindicator ago
What did I deny?
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Yes, we are, but not in the day-to-day management of the verse.
This is a structured choice to prevent / mitigate the ability of the adversarial forces to enact a takeover of the subverse.
I do no remove content or comments, as much as I might want to, in order to maintain a separation between issues of content and issues of management.
This entire escapade has followed a rather predictable pattern and ultimately the only outcome is a general questioning of what groups the word "elite" includes.
Which , following the mantra of 'do not rule churn', will be addressed over time by the community.
Incorrect, this is specifically what I'm here for.
But if users are wasting my time by continually pinging me for petty small time bullshit - I'll just tune out until something that matters happens.
If the 'M' level team can't get their shit straight as a group - don't pin it on me and expecting me (or @Crensch) to come and save the day.
The 'M' level mods are all responsible collectively for the day to day management of the sub and associated subs are there to support that management.
Use them to resolve these kinds of issues.
the entire reason for v/pizzagatewhatever is to address this issue, forcing the main thread to be all inclusive will rapidly dilute the base of factual sourced evidence the main sub is intended to be the repository for.
As an operational measure, the more people push for change the more resistant I will be to change.
There is nothing wrong with evolving over time, but continued forced efforts to dilute the community, with rule churn, definition sophistry or calls to fragment the community to new venues will now be considered active efforts to discredit and diminish the community.
A considerable amount of energy has been wasted on this and it disappoints me to see the energy wasted as it was not spent getting closer to the capture of people in power who systematically and ritually use children for abuse, molestation and other vile and disgusting acts.
argosciv ago
I pretty much said the following to @Crensch, in a private discussion about my presence here and recent activity - it's apt here too though:
Brilliant. I truly applaud your ethics.
Crensch ago
As usual, well said.
Crensch ago
And now, because I'm just that kind of guy, some specifics on your words, PART 2:
It wasn't a campaign at all. This user's submissions were blatantly against the rules. I might not have looked at his other submissions had he not continued provoking me, but a fair removal is not a "campaign" by any stretch.
At best, this
... is what you have in the definition. I posit that the random low-ranking jackass in the military is not automatically worthy of investigation based on this alone.
Then the connection needs to be made, which has been the mantra of mods this entire time. One could just as easily say that the police officers around the country found with the same is also a pattern. Or CPS workers. Or teachers. Or tech workers. Where do you draw the line at allowing "patterns" before any solid link is presented?
314 was given responses as to why the submissions were removed. I personally told him/her to make the link, then come back. He/she/it seemed incensed from this, and started a campaign to have me removed as [O], and also to have users go elsewhere for their PG stuff.
So did everyone else. Especially after I did a little digging on 314.
Yet they do not come forward with this in the pgmods subverse where we can all see the number of users complaining, or investigate what/how they're conducting themselves in their submission/comment history. We have ALWAYS been open to changes, and the only people ever to have pushed for them openly have done so with submission histories showing them to be full of shit, or as an already-at-war and wanting a coup from seemingly out of nowhere "user".
Again, I'm happy to discuss changes, but literally every single time something like this comes up, it's done as an attack, or from a username that doesn't appear legit.
This is not really painting a very good picture for me, and I kinda doubt I'm the only one.
I'm pretty sure either in the modlog under "reason" or in a comment, MF has written the reason.
MF seems to be of the mind that how we originally set things up was how it was supposed to go, and creeping the line back was not.
I figured after a while that 314 had pushed you to contact us, and you chose not to comment on any of it, washing your hands of the situation. That was my interpretation of the situation.
It most certainly was resolved. The rules do not allow for the average-joe tier "lead" even in the military, because it isn't necessarily connected, and the further down you go, the less likely you are to find the elites that PG is there to investigate in the first place. What would the elite ring of child-trafficking pedos have to do with some low-level serviceman that makes CP with his own kids, destined to be caught? Why would any elites risk such a thing when they have class-protected child sex slavery that is unlikely to get taken down?
But that's not even really the why that was discussed. It was how ridiculous you'd have to make the line at that point, and how much more bullshit "leads" could be tossed into the PG /new/ to slide useful threads.
It also didn't help on your end that 314 acted like an entitled bitch, and had posted shit that was utterly against the rules.
I don't think it's symptomatic of anything. I think it's absolutely 100% your fault for urging a user to post here, explaining your reasoning, then being absent when counter-reasons could be presented.
The real problem would come in if the [O] got buddy-buddy with someone here and changed shit to help said buddy. That was actually part of what went in to deciding on [O] users here, in order to prevent the kind of shit that happens on the other site when a small cabal of users don't want some things said; though in this case it's wanting what I consider to be slide-level submissions.
So you're saying any possible piece of news out there should be open to discussion? I fail to see how that helps anyone.
Do you know what happens when unlimited choices are given to/forced onto people?
1) They don't have the time to investigate all, much less a decent percentage of "possible leads"
2) They wind up giving up because they can't put a dent in the workload.
This isn't a news subverse. This isn't a lead subverse. This is where the actual links can be discussed and archived. Where DIRECT actions of those already identified as pedos can be discussed, not what Trump is doing in the white house with his firings.
Whether or not that's been happening in our absence, that's what this place was designed to do. If we're talking about an entire overhaul of the subverse, you're going to need more than PMs to you about making changes.
Is not every [O] ping addressed here? You're acting as if we sit on our thumbs and do nothing, when this entire thing was addressed. I fail to see how anyone else here is responsible for the outcome, and moreso how anyone else here should be targeted by such words.
.
.
.
You want this to become a politics sub then? There are plenty of places these users can discuss politics. There are even other PG subverses where they can discuss politics links that are "too soon to tell".
This went from changing the rules to changing the entire meaning of this subverse. I may be absentee with the day-to-day, but the conclusion I'm coming to about what's going on here is neither pleasant, nor something I feel I need to say outright.
Despite what you may think here, I'm not attacking you, or even accusing you of anything. This is what I think, and I am more than willing to discuss whatever parts of it, and PG with you, or whomever else decides to weigh in.
3141592653 ago
"He/she/it seemed incensed from this, and started a campaign to have me removed as [O], and also to have users go elsewhere for their PG stuff." and "314 acted like an entitled bitch" = no i did not.
Crensch ago
Ahh, you're right about having users go elsewhere, that was another PG faggot pushing his bullshit at the same time you were. Oh well, at least your campaign to have me removed was pretty cut and dried.
http://archive.is/rZXJk
Not that I needed to prove anything to you, as my word is good as gold here, but just in case anyone was wondering.
@kevdude @Millennial_Falcon @VictorSteinerDavion @vindicator @heygeorge
In what world would I need to PM someone for "racist slurs"? In what world does anyone here think that this isn't some shit-tier user trying to tattle to get me ousted like I would have been on rEddit?
In fact, I think I'm going to go ahead and call it here, this "user"
http://archive.is/E5Axg
Is a fucking liar.
3141592653 ago
I can publish your emails if you want, since you are saying I'm lying. the proof is in my inbox. "campaign to have you removed" = never happened
VictorSteinerDavion ago
I've never known @Crensch to shy away from public slurs, if you do have proof please post them in a public thread in the /v/pizzagatemods verse and ping me in the comments
A note: I will not respond to private messages about moderator conduct, all discussions are to be public and welcoming of participation of the community.
I'm assuming you mean PM's as giving out your email addresses here is not a particularly good idea.
Do be aware that any person can literally type anything into a text box and call it evidence - if I am to believe the evidence I will need a bit more than text in a comment box.
Much of the recent shenanigans hasn't brought out he best in the community and I'm watching everyone for consistency of conduct to see who is serious about the issues and who is simply drama creators fishing for attention.
3141592653 ago
yes I meant PMs. And I hope you figure out who the drama-starters are vs. the people really wanting to end child abuse.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
It is a challenging task, and all of us get frustrated and vent.
Which I'm ok with generally - habitual dramatrolls often reduce their effectiveness over time.
this one is easy to determine, people who commit the time to dig up and post well sourced, connected and clear parts of the puzzle are the ones I support.
And they are far easier to forgive transgressions than others.
Keep up the work and let time wash away the recent crap - taking any of this personally doesn't help, which is why focusing on the trail of evidence is the best way to move forward.
Crensch ago
Yeah, I just said that. Since you can't seem to understand that you look exactly like some other faggot attacking PG.
As for my "emails" go for it, since they don't exist. I've no reason to PM you shit.
Crensch ago
PART 1
@Heygeorge @sensitive @Millennial_Falcon all would not have been pinged in the above comment.
I spent that entire time open to other interpretations of what was going on and heard nothing. Of course I found 314 to be a forum-sliding shill, as most of its submissions seemed to be of bullshit that "investigating" would have led nowhere.
If a rule needs to be changed, or relaxed, because the users want that, then it needs to be discussed before encouraging a user to break the current rules.
Yes, the landlords are absentee, and do not follow the many threads of the narrative, and it's the mods' job to bring us up to speed should something need to be changed. I elucidated part of why the mods are distant in my welcome thread, but another part is that we wanted to avoid having the head mods making friends with users that may or may not be here to help, despite what they appear to be doing, and changing things for those "friends"
This place was originally supposed to be a place where already-made connections could be further investigated. The attacks and slides of old looked exactly like what 314 was posting. Just any old Joe behind the Pizza Hut dumpster in order to swamp everyone with "leads" that could not all be investigated, and were certainly unlikely to result in any real connection.
My removals were absolutely by the book, and even from the beginning of PG, the 314 posts that were not already found to have a connection would need to be removed. The rules were originally set up so someone knowing nothing about PG could pick up the torch and start removing things that didn't fit the submission requirements.
I'm MORE than happy to discuss the changing of the rules, if that's what we're here for.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
I've replied here. I do agree that rule 1 should be changed from elite to "those with authority and power" simply just to address the wider issue of how the elite use not-elites as figurative body shields.
At this point the attempts to slide and sow dissent are now at a level that no matter the rules they will still try. It's time to open the trap so they may fall in blindly.
Crensch ago
I think we pretty much decided that leaving things as-is was the way to go for now. Happy to open it back up if you want to even bother with it.
As for the rule change, as an investigative subverse meant to go after those doing these things, what use is opening it up to lower level grunts like military personnel or police officers? What could possibly come from investigating them?
And IF something could come from it, why is that investigation not being done by whomever thinks there's a link before posting it here? If there actually IS a link, it'll stay up per the rules, right?
It basically opens us up to any "possible link" of any low-level scumbag with a little power being considered pizzagate material. That's what was happening with that 314 shill "user"
VictorSteinerDavion ago
I get it, I do understand.
But the elites use their underlings as a shield and to create plausible deniability, which is exactly why Demmink has been able to get away with it for so long.
It's been shown for sometime now in the community that this issue is a contentious one.
I'm understanding both sides of the calls to change it and leave it be.
Something that could help fix the issue is to require a chain of links and connections to the elites in every not-elite focused post, or to show where in the network the individual sits.
This is a hard problem to solve, but the elites are very successfully hiding behind any and every low level scumbag and through that they are able to distance themselves.
I'm going to sit on this for a bit while the current wave of attacks on the mods runs out of steam and see if the community can figure out how they're allowing themselves to be controlled by these types of misleading discussions.
For now nothing needs to be done, but something does need to be done eventually.
Crensch ago
I agree. I think we might be talking past each other above, but hashing it out now is really not an efficient way to go about it since we all seem to agree on the short-term waiting game.
3141592653 ago
As for asking MF for an explanation, that doesn't take gall. I have two examples recently of him deleting my posts but leaving up others that are nearly identical, and posted AFTER mine
Crensch ago
When your posts are at the nigger-tier level they are, it does.
Pretty sure mods aren't active 24/7, and I'm also pretty sure that you're lying, since you've been doing so this entire time.
3141592653 ago
You're obsessed with me. And yourself, clearly. Go make yourself useful in this world
Crensch ago
I'm stopping someone from subverting any earnest PG investigations right now. I'm helping people that want to put childfuckers in prison.
3141592653 ago
And my posts , according to you, are on the level of raping a kid??! IMO, mods like you are THE main problem here
Crensch ago
Do I need to teach you how to read, too? Your posts are on the level of a random hobo fucking a kid. NOT PIZZAGATE MATERIAL, just some random bullshit happening that you can use to slide legitimate threads.
I am the ONLY reason PG even has this place as a platform to investigate, but I'd wager you know that since you're paid to distract earnest PG people from the real stories.
3141592653 ago
I'd love to get paid for being here, LoFL. Your narcissistic personality disorder is showing again
Crensch ago
It's the nicest conclusion, since the alternative is that you're a useful idiot that thinks every child-fucking subhuman race in the middle east is somehow a useful lead to connect those described in rule 1 to illegal shit.
Congratulations, you're helping pedophiles by presenting utterly useless "leads" that will end with some sandnigger goatfucker being outed, and absolutely nothing happening to him because his country is full of subhumans. Wow, you really did a great job there!
3141592653 ago
Individual and cultural superiority complex, of course masking feelings of inferiority. You are clueless about global PG
Crensch ago
Nah, not gonna let it go at just that.
PG is SO UNIMPORTANT TO YOU that you cannot even follow the rules in order to help others put them away. If that's the motivation you're selling, you completely, utterly fail.
You fail at every single resolution of this, whether you're paid, an unpaid useful idiot, or really do want childfuckers to go to prison.
You can't even follow very, very simple rules.
3141592653 ago
No,mods just can't agree on what the rules mean
Crensch ago
Your military post was the LEAST embarrassing of your rulebreaking. The rest of your posts were way beyond a misinterpretation of the rules.
3141592653 ago
Which clearly proves the issue is the mods all interpreting the rules very differently
Crensch ago
No, not very differently at all. Your military post was a small difference in interpretation that I believe has now been hammered out thanks to your extremely suspicious presence on PG as a whole.
3141592653 ago
Me being suspicious = lofl
Crensch ago
Heh, whites are superior to every other race on the planet, and that's not a complex.
You can't even follow simple rules.
3141592653 ago
Who invented mathematics? And language? Lofl. You must've had kkk for teachers
Crensch ago
Nobody knows, you ignorant nigger. We have "the most ancient mathematical texts available".
Do you know who invented CALCULUS?
Either an ENGLISHMAN or GERMAN
You stupid nigger, you're way out of your league.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language
You must have had LIARS for teachers.
3141592653 ago
Wrong wrong. Arabic is the root of the very language you are using. Letters and numbers . Wikipedia as a source? So fucking weak
Crensch ago
By the way, since we're talking about who's subhuman and who isn't:
It's customary to round up when the next digit is a five. It's also absolutely fucking correct to round up when the next two digits are 59.
3.14159265359 you stupid nigger.
Crensch ago
Irrelevant. Single-celled organisms are the root of humans. <--- that's how stupid your argument is.
You normies LOVE Wikipedia, and it's heavily staffed by kikes and diversity hires that LOVE to erase white history.
If Wikipedia doesn't have your revisionist history, it must not be politically important enough to spend resources on it.
3141592653 ago
Honestly, you've given me multiple reasons to strongly feel I am more informed on child trafficking and PG than you are.been at this 15+ years. Your arrogance and bigotry will not be what helps the children
Crensch ago
You've shown that you cannot be trusted to follow the rules of the subverse, and that you're more than happy to post shit that in no way could help any investigation into the targets listed in rule 1.
3141592653 ago
You are clearly ignorant for thinking all the posts you deleted violate rule 1. You apparently have an extremely limited understanding of global trafficking and organized child abuse
Crensch ago
You're pretty clearly unable to defend your submissions. Just assertions that I don't know things, and attacks on my character.
Doing wonders for you, let me tell ya.
3141592653 ago
Attacks on your character lol. Oh, the irony
3141592653 ago
You think I should waste my time defending my posts to you. As I've said from the first comment, you can't see beyond your own ego
3141592653 ago
Backpage is not a RANDOM website. Its huge. And of course global elites are tied to child trafficking in the middle east! Wtf.!!? And PM'ing me racist slurs... what a mess.
Crensch ago
Explain how INVESTIGATING either of those will lead to anything at all to do with pizzagate.
Then, and this is important, PROVE THE LINK YOURSELF YOU LAZY NIGGER.
3141592653 ago
So weak
3141592653 ago
@VINDICATOR Crensch just deleted four of my posts, with faulty reasoning, and PM'ed racist slurs to me. Wtf
Crensch ago
And now everyone knows you're a liar. Everyone, EVERYONE here that could possibly comment on your claim here knows that I don't need a PM to call you a nigger. I don't need to hide the fact that I hope you are one of the first kikes in the oven for being a subversive JEW.
@kevdude - God damn I'm tired of being right
@Millennial_Falcon - we got a live one
3141592653 ago
You are so misguided. Keep fighting those really leading this battle . And you are clearly still trapped in your ego issues
Crensch ago
You're leading earnest PG people towards complete and utter bullshit.
You can't even defend one of your submissions that I deleted, but keep trying to go for the psychological approach.
Crensch ago
Apologies, for anyone that doesn't know me:
The above is not meant to shut down discussion on relaxing the rules or anything else. It's not a dictate from on high. I tend to get extremely riled by users wasting my time with bullshit, and have an even shorter fuse for pizzagaters.
Please feel free to weigh in on anything here. Thanks.
argosciv ago
much love, faggot
bb22 ago
If you have a "shorter fuse for pizzagaters" then why in the flaming fuck are you here?
Crensch ago
Because of faggots like you that don't know or understand why the fuck I am here.
I'm here because the only way to prevent PG from getting DESTROYED by other goats was for ME to step in and try to smooth things over. It took another goat, @kevdude, to hammer out the rules of this place with the users before goats finally calmed down.
The ONLY reason you even have a place to post your whiny, bitch-ass complaints about PG is because of me and @kevdude.
Also, the only reason you continue to have a place to piss and moan is because trusted goats are making sure this place doesn't get infiltrated by rEddit cancermods. So, I'm here because of whiny fucks like you that would elect a cancermod to run your shit and eventually ban wrongthink.
bb22 ago
I would have no moderation, period, other than spamming 100s of posts or doing something blatantly illegal. Illegal as in against actual laws in the real world.
Crensch ago
Then post in the sticky, faggot.
Crensch ago
@The1stLantern @heygeorge
Crensch ago
@VictorSteinerDavion @Millennial_Falcon @sensitive @nnfx @horse-with-a-name