As soon as you deny something is when I go ahead and figure that's actually true, FagDickator. Stop acting like you're not an evil douche.

No O's are active

Yes, we are, but not in the day-to-day management of the verse.
This is a structured choice to prevent / mitigate the ability of the adversarial forces to enact a takeover of the subverse.

I do no remove content or comments, as much as I might want to, in order to maintain a separation between issues of content and issues of management.

This entire escapade has followed a rather predictable pattern and ultimately the only outcome is a general questioning of what groups the word "elite" includes.
Which , following the mantra of 'do not rule churn', will be addressed over time by the community.

There is no one to set the direction when mods have differing views

Incorrect, this is specifically what I'm here for.
But if users are wasting my time by continually pinging me for petty small time bullshit - I'll just tune out until something that matters happens.

If the 'M' level team can't get their shit straight as a group - don't pin it on me and expecting me (or @Crensch) to come and save the day.
The 'M' level mods are all responsible collectively for the day to day management of the sub and associated subs are there to support that management.
Use them to resolve these kinds of issues.

most users' desire is a somewhat relaxed interpretation of what is Pizzagate related

the entire reason for v/pizzagatewhatever is to address this issue, forcing the main thread to be all inclusive will rapidly dilute the base of factual sourced evidence the main sub is intended to be the repository for.

As an operational measure, the more people push for change the more resistant I will be to change.
There is nothing wrong with evolving over time, but continued forced efforts to dilute the community, with rule churn, definition sophistry or calls to fragment the community to new venues will now be considered active efforts to discredit and diminish the community.

A considerable amount of energy has been wasted on this and it disappoints me to see the energy wasted as it was not spent getting closer to the capture of people in power who systematically and ritually use children for abuse, molestation and other vile and disgusting acts.

And now, because I'm just that kind of guy, some specifics on your words, PART 2:

I'm sorry it took me so long to make this comment; I was occupied with recruiting new mods and some real life responsibilities and it took me a few days to gather all the links for this. A number of key facts were missed in this unfortunate bruhaha which ended up becoming a takedown campaign against a longtime v/pizzagate contributor by a v/pizzagate Owner, and it's my fault. Here's how it went down:

It wasn't a campaign at all. This user's submissions were blatantly against the rules. I might not have looked at his other submissions had he not continued provoking me, but a fair removal is not a "campaign" by any stretch.

31415 originally postedthe news about the Airforce pedo arrests in v/pizzagatewhatever I am the one who suggested it be cross-posted to v/pizzagate, because our definition includes military abuse of kids

At best, this

referring to what has been called "Pedocracy" which is the suspected, likely informal, association of elite individuals that use pedophilia to organize, manage and discipline their efforts to dominate or disproportionately influence outcomes in matters of interest. That includes government as well as politics -- executive, legislative, judicial, lobbying, military, intelligence --

... is what you have in the definition. I posit that the random low-ranking jackass in the military is not automatically worthy of investigation based on this alone.

One of the two men was making child porn of his own kids and distributing it to a network. Because I've see these posts daily these past 8 months, and there have been numerous cases of military personnel and defense contractors involved in sexually abusing kids, it seemed part of a larger pattern which could be related to the deep state "coup"YouTube discussed by Steve Piesczenik back in November.

Then the connection needs to be made, which has been the mantra of mods this entire time. One could just as easily say that the police officers around the country found with the same is also a pattern. Or CPS workers. Or teachers. Or tech workers. Where do you draw the line at allowing "patterns" before any solid link is presented?

31415 cross-posted to v/pizzagate on my suggestion, but MF removed it 31415 then followed the Moderation Rules to the letter and requested an explanation of the removal as a comment, pinging me

314 was given responses as to why the submissions were removed. I personally told him/her to make the link, then come back. He/she/it seemed incensed from this, and started a campaign to have me removed as [O], and also to have users go elsewhere for their PG stuff.

I responded with my logic for it NOT being a Rule 1 violation; MF disagreed

So did everyone else. Especially after I did a little digging on 314.

At the time, my inbox was full of complaints from frustrated, longtime users about unfair removals and bans by MF over the previous week, asking me to do something about the draconian enforcement of the rules

Yet they do not come forward with this in the pgmods subverse where we can all see the number of users complaining, or investigate what/how they're conducting themselves in their submission/comment history. We have ALWAYS been open to changes, and the only people ever to have pushed for them openly have done so with submission histories showing them to be full of shit, or as an already-at-war and wanting a coup from seemingly out of nowhere "user".

Again, I'm happy to discuss changes, but literally every single time something like this comes up, it's done as an attack, or from a username that doesn't appear legit.

This is not really painting a very good picture for me, and I kinda doubt I'm the only one.

Modmail had over 30 unanswered requests for explanations about posts MF had removed

I'm pretty sure either in the modlog under "reason" or in a comment, MF has written the reason.

At that point, it seemed like MF was growing ever more strict in his interpretation of Rule 1 and we were at an impass; so I pinged the O's to gain some clarity about Rule 1:

MF seems to be of the mind that how we originally set things up was how it was supposed to go, and creeping the line back was not.

Please note: It was ME, not 31415, who requested the attention of O's.

I figured after a while that 314 had pushed you to contact us, and you chose not to comment on any of it, washing your hands of the situation. That was my interpretation of the situation.

Unfortunately, for some reason, Crensch saw 31415 as a disrespectful forum sliding shill rebelling against the mods and went into punishment mode, going back through the user's history and deleting multiple posts that mods had left up as Rule 1 compliant. Not only was the user attacked, but the reason I pinged the O's in the first place -- clarity about how restrictively we must interpret the rules -- was not resolved.

It most certainly was resolved. The rules do not allow for the average-joe tier "lead" even in the military, because it isn't necessarily connected, and the further down you go, the less likely you are to find the elites that PG is there to investigate in the first place. What would the elite ring of child-trafficking pedos have to do with some low-level serviceman that makes CP with his own kids, destined to be caught? Why would any elites risk such a thing when they have class-protected child sex slavery that is unlikely to get taken down?

But that's not even really the why that was discussed. It was how ridiculous you'd have to make the line at that point, and how much more bullshit "leads" could be tossed into the PG /new/ to slide useful threads.

It also didn't help on your end that 314 acted like an entitled bitch, and had posted shit that was utterly against the rules.

This whole incident was a total shitshow. And it's symptomatic of the fundamental flaws of the current set-up of v/pizzagate. @VictorSteinerDavion @Kevdude @Heygeorge @sensitive @Millennial_Falcon

I don't think it's symptomatic of anything. I think it's absolutely 100% your fault for urging a user to post here, explaining your reasoning, then being absent when counter-reasons could be presented.

No O's are active, contributing members of the community who understand what the community cares about or what direction the users themselves want v/pizzagate to take. There is no one to set the direction when mods have differing views. And unlike most subs on Voat, users don't get to let their votes decide, because most posts are removed. This is a real problem.

The real problem would come in if the [O] got buddy-buddy with someone here and changed shit to help said buddy. That was actually part of what went in to deciding on [O] users here, in order to prevent the kind of shit that happens on the other site when a small cabal of users don't want some things said; though in this case it's wanting what I consider to be slide-level submissions.

My sense is, most users' desire is a somewhat relaxed interpretation of what is Pizzagate related. Are the Awan brothers related? It's too soon to tell, but users sure want to talk about it. Are the whitehouse leaks and firings related? Again, too soon to know but people want to talk about it. Who decides? Shouldn't the community decide?

So you're saying any possible piece of news out there should be open to discussion? I fail to see how that helps anyone.

Do you know what happens when unlimited choices are given to/forced onto people?

1) They don't have the time to investigate all, much less a decent percentage of "possible leads"

2) They wind up giving up because they can't put a dent in the workload.

This isn't a news subverse. This isn't a lead subverse. This is where the actual links can be discussed and archived. Where DIRECT actions of those already identified as pedos can be discussed, not what Trump is doing in the white house with his firings.

Whether or not that's been happening in our absence, that's what this place was designed to do. If we're talking about an entire overhaul of the subverse, you're going to need more than PMs to you about making changes.

Can we please address this? Otherwise, what is the point of the shill-shackling rules if they lead to all of this frustration and division among mods, regular legit users, and absentee-landord Owners?

Is not every [O] ping addressed here? You're acting as if we sit on our thumbs and do nothing, when this entire thing was addressed. I fail to see how anyone else here is responsible for the outcome, and moreso how anyone else here should be targeted by such words.

We should be working as a team in here kicking pedo ass, not tripping each other up.

.

Are the Awan brothers related? It's too soon to tell, but users sure want to talk about it.

.

Are the whitehouse leaks and firings related? Again, too soon to know but people want to talk about it.

.

Who decides? Shouldn't the community decide?

You want this to become a politics sub then? There are plenty of places these users can discuss politics. There are even other PG subverses where they can discuss politics links that are "too soon to tell".

This went from changing the rules to changing the entire meaning of this subverse. I may be absentee with the day-to-day, but the conclusion I'm coming to about what's going on here is neither pleasant, nor something I feel I need to say outright.

Despite what you may think here, I'm not attacking you, or even accusing you of anything. This is what I think, and I am more than willing to discuss whatever parts of it, and PG with you, or whomever else decides to weigh in.

PART 1

@Heygeorge @sensitive @Millennial_Falcon all would not have been pinged in the above comment.

I spent that entire time open to other interpretations of what was going on and heard nothing. Of course I found 314 to be a forum-sliding shill, as most of its submissions seemed to be of bullshit that "investigating" would have led nowhere.

If a rule needs to be changed, or relaxed, because the users want that, then it needs to be discussed before encouraging a user to break the current rules.

Yes, the landlords are absentee, and do not follow the many threads of the narrative, and it's the mods' job to bring us up to speed should something need to be changed. I elucidated part of why the mods are distant in my welcome thread, but another part is that we wanted to avoid having the head mods making friends with users that may or may not be here to help, despite what they appear to be doing, and changing things for those "friends"

This place was originally supposed to be a place where already-made connections could be further investigated. The attacks and slides of old looked exactly like what 314 was posting. Just any old Joe behind the Pizza Hut dumpster in order to swamp everyone with "leads" that could not all be investigated, and were certainly unlikely to result in any real connection.

Relevance: Posts must be directly relevant to investigation of Pizzagate: the sexual/physical abuse and/or murder of children by elites, child trafficking organized by elites, and/or cover-up of these activities and/or the protection/assistance provided to the people who engage in said activities.

My removals were absolutely by the book, and even from the beginning of PG, the 314 posts that were not already found to have a connection would need to be removed. The rules were originally set up so someone knowing nothing about PG could pick up the torch and start removing things that didn't fit the submission requirements.

I'm MORE than happy to discuss the changing of the rules, if that's what we're here for.