*** Our usual sticky, the Executive Summary of Pizzagate Evidence, can be found in the sidebar and here. ***
There's been a great discussion over the past few weeks in v/pizzagatewhatever about what users would like to change in order to improve the functioning of this subverse, so we'd like to take an official poll to gauge sentiment. I will describe details here, and list individual proposals separately in the Comments below; please upvoat or downvoat each of them and/or leave a subcomment to voice your opinion on the matter.
Item #1: Should we turn on the 100 CCP Downvoat setting (Doesn't prevent shitposts; Removes us from being visible outside this sub)
The primary concern discussed is cutting down the number of shill and troll posts by limiting downvoats to those who have 100 Comment Contribution Points. Please be aware there was quite a bit of misinformation contained in that discussion. Here are the facts:
Kevdude explained to me how CCP works:
CCP are points we get for comments. The middle number at the top is your sitewide ccp. Once that hit 100 you can downvote. You can not downvote anywhere if you are under 100.
In the sidebar there is the minimum ccp to dv in a sub. That refers to your in-sub ccp which is ccp you generate on the comments you make in that sub. (which is why under that you see "your ccp for this sub"). That does not mean new users with 0 ccp can downvote. It just means tgat you don't have to generate points in the sub to dv there. If you raise the sub minimum 2 things happen. Users can no longer generate ccp for the sub and the sub is blocked from v/all.
@VieBleu characterized the 100 CCP limit to downvoat as a "figleaf" and implied it limits people's ability to submit material. The first point is accurate, the second is not.
To clarify: turning on this setting has NO IMPACT on the ability to submit or comment. It's main effect is to prevent our material from being seen outside this subverse (something many shills and several pedos who frequent this board would love to have happen!) and stop each of us from accruing Comment Contribution Points for our comments within this subverse. This could have the unintended effect of severely limiting those who primarily contribute to v/pizzagate! CCP is an important buffer -- if people downvoat your comments into the negatives, you lose the ability to comment. Organized downvoat brigades can effectively silence those with low CCP. Currently, SCP -- submission contribution points -- have no effect on the ability of your account to take action on Voat (other than demonstrating you are an actual contributor).
Based on this, I believe turning on the 100 CCP downvoat minimum would unnecessarily empower the shills and trolls -- the exact opposite of the intended effect, which is why @Crensch @Kevdude @VictorSteinerDavion and others who have been pinged about this have said no. However, because users have requested it, I am going to include it in this poll as item number one. Please make an informed vote.
Proposal #2: Turn on the "Only allow submissions from authorized users" feature & Authorize users who introduce themselves in new sister-sub
In the thread mentioned above, user @GoodGodKirk suggested we create a Pizzagate Introductions sister-sub, and close submissions to those who have not introduced themselves. I believe that would be FAR more effective and have less negative consequences for legit users than turning on the 100 CCP Downvoat option. However, it would require we stop allowing submissions from everyone until they make a post in the new subverse. The downside to this is that it would radically downthrottle content in the short term. This is a huge change and would need a demonstration of major support from the community, but could be a very interesting experiment! Please vote and comment below.
Include any thoughts you may have about how to get the most out of an intros sister-sub to hinder shills and support legit Pizzagoats. For example, before approving submitters, we could require they subscribe to all five (now six) sister subs -- so that stuff from v/pizzagatewhatever ends up on their front page and people aren't so reluctant to post speculative or unsourced stuff there.
Proposal #3: Change mods/owners (various ideas)
In VieBleu's threads, various ideas and proposals were put forward, including adding me as an O. I have mixed feelings about that and feel really weird putting it in a sticky. I am including it, though, because I said I would do this sticky based on what was discussed. Two new facts have come to light however since that thread that may make this a moot point:
Proposal #4: Revisit what is and isn't Rule 1 compliant (directly related to Pizzagate)
This topic has caused massive frustration for users and mods, and will require it's own sticky, as there are a number of issues and this could dramatically shift what is allowed to remain on the board. For now, please voat about whether we should discuss this, and leave a comment about why stuff that's removed now should be included, or why not, so those thoughts can be included in a future sticky.
Proposal #5: Hide the "Share a Link" button
The low effort required to post in v/pizzagate via Share a Link, as well as the inability to edit post headlines (Link posts are ONLY headlines) to satisfy the rest of the submission rules make this idea very attractive to mods. We have to take down numerous otherwise legit posts because people don't take the time to write a clear, accurate headline that explains how the link they are sharing is directly related to Pizzagate. We can't remove the functionality, but we can hide the button. This would go a long way toward reducing unnecessary post removals on technicalities.
Those are the five main proposals as I saw it. If I've missed any, please include them in the Comments below. Give them a headline like I have done (put a "#" with no space at the beginning of the headline, and a double carriage return after, some text describing why you think the change should be made, and ask people to vote on it.)
Edit: formatting
view the rest of the comments →
VieBleu ago
I AM COMING COMING TO THE COMMUNITY TO TRY TO GET THE HARRASSMENT CAMPAIGN OF KEVDUDE AGAINST ME STOPPED - I NEED HELP
Aside from being all over this thread, calling me a liar, that I've poisoned the subforum, intended to misinform etc, and constant villifying me, I get weird mentions like this in my inbox - https://voat.co/v/AnonTalk/2092172, I had another one thread sent to me by Kevdude two days ago with a headline simply calling me a cunt, something about my children all being killed, or maybe that was the one before, etc from out of nowhere (no prior discussion to generate it). I have tried to just not answer the person, then I get villified for that. I cannot have an exchange without that one becoming insulting usually either eviolently or vilely - Usually I have ignored all this stuff - its been ongoing for months - as you are supposed to be here with a thick skin. I started a pizzagatewhatever community discussion here https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2033192 and here https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2030995 when I was directed to by a mod, who I asked what is the proceedure for getting things stickied for a vote. so we had a vote and generated several issues of importance, which was the genisis of this sticky. yes I crusaded for the CCP idea and we have finally gotten to the bottom of site mechanics and done some testing. We all understand it better now because I asked FuzzyWords and her clear cut explanations helped more than anything else we'd been told. I think all of this could have been avoided if a community announcement had been made on this subforum at the time the CCP restriction was changed. The whole issue is obviuosly of genuine interest to the community, not just me, but I am villified again and again. To paraphrase the Elephant Man, "I am not an Amalek!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PzQAx9wgs
So below is the comment I left on the weird Anonymous thread. Everyone has a tipping point, and after months and especially the last few days, this felt like stalking and this was it. I was just going to cry, answer it and leave it, but something tells me I should show it to everyone. There is something about a predator type isolating a target for further abuse which is a trap I don't want to allow. So the question to the whole place is this - I have had exactly one account and one name on this subverse since I started last December. I know this community knows I am not a multiple liar, an intentional mis- and dis- information spreader, someone who works to cripple/poison/isolate the pizzagate subverse, an investigation derailer, paranoid, dense, ignorant, stupid, a cunt etc Because I have been called all this and more by only one individual on this thread within the last 48 hours who I have not even been in a discussion with. Yeah, it's his right, but I'm asking now can he be asked by anyone he respects to lay off? Anything? Do I have to endure consistent abuse to try to get some positive change on an internet forum that is supposed to help child abuse victims? Do we really want to be a group that has a Punisher In Chief who doesn't even contribute in any visibly significant way to the investigation? Millenial_Falcon is taking a lot of heat from the community, but some heat needs to be turned up on this behavior too - I feel it is way more toxic and poisonous to our efforts than anything I contribute. Edit: Here is an example of the kind of material I contribute - http://archive.is/jXPz8)) I have seen another comment on this thread saying the males beat up on the women here, if you want it I'll search through, it's here. Other people have called for more civility. We need to find it somehow. Thanks for hearing me out, all of you.
@VictorSteinerDavion, @kingkongwaswrong, @Vindicator, @cantsleepawink, @quantokitty, @Honeybee, @The1stLantern, @Millennial_Falcon, @ESOTERICshade, @votescam, @AngB23, @argosciv, @equineluvr, @SecondAmendment, @badastrid, @darkknight111, @Dressage2, @Factfinder2, @2impendingdoom, @4_InquiringMinds, @DerivaUK, @sunajAeon, @UnicornandSparkles, @Judgejewdy, @carmencita
Edit -Note this post does not belong in pizzagatemods as @KevDude claims he is not a mod in this thread - https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2086828/10307566
EDIT: I am not a liar. I have never even deleted a comment on voat. I am as transparent as it is possible to be. I can get the other comment too if I have to dig that one up, starting with calling me cunt. It was deleted after several hours from pizzagatemods 4 days ago when I didn't bite.
There has been a request to focus on the "children killing" comment in my post. Below is what I was referring to. This is just par usual, and during the conversation it was very clear I was talking to an alt of KevDude - he came to the subverse when I kicked up a stink about all the archived accounts littering the front page, which got it fixed btw. He was civil for two minutes then lapsed into his usual abuse. Since he is denying this so vehemently I put it here, but it is not the main problem. If this is all he'd done, that'd be fine. Its just the continual slander and the campaign that needs to stop. He won't acknowledge his behavior, and it was his campaign that caused that weird anonymous thread in my inbox either directly or indirectly.
He will of course deny it, then call me the liar. I don't care. This isn't the biggest deal by any means, just one of the things that came to mind when I was writing this stuff up.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2016213/9945761
/\/\/\/\ This is classic KevDude, known by his signature racial hate. Here is the other one lately, from pizzagatemods
@VieBleu you fucking cunt. LYING about one of the owners of PG in your big post to get us to change things suggests that you have ulterior motives for your proposed changes. (voat.co)
submitted 4 days ago by [deleted] to pizzagatemods
argosciv ago
Okay yep, this deserves it's own comment...
TL;DR: @kevdude, I see no reason to link the alleged abuse vie has received, to you
What the FUCK is this shit? I have literally been dos'd(I have the logs) for my recent contestable submission(someone has access to users' ip addresses, I can assure you that), I don't know who it was, but it was very real...
This here, though, this is just dumb.
@VieBleu, maybe you're not lying, maybe you genuinely think MrPim is kevdude and/or @PuttItOut,
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2016213/9945761
but, that is conjecture at best(as you have provided no evidence to link the two) and as I swiftly found out myself when haphazardly posting a submission which I had not done enough research on, this can really cause you damage.
You remind me of another user (who I won't name or ping) who is VERY prone to assuming that the mods(MF in particular) are in cahootz with the worldfuckers, while he does often provide seemingly useful information that is otherwise strongly contested, he is often accusing pretty much everyone of being the boogeyman out to get him.
I never like calling people crazy, Vie, but, I do think that if you are genuine in your presence here, you are confused greatly and may need to just take a break or something? This really looks like mostly a case of mistaken identity blown way out of proportion.
Kev, I hear you when you say there's an apparent agenda in Vie's posting, of particular note is his view on "one owner" and kkwr's presence - perhaps I'm playing too much Devil's Advocate here, but, is it possible that Vie is just a little confused as to how things operate, not only on v/pizzagate, but also voat and with world fuckery abroad?
If I may, I'd like to take a moment to weigh in on this whole "potty mouth is okay" stuff... @Crensch, I'm sure you'll lambast me for this, go for it, I mean no ill intent nor insubordination nor to display any lack of gratitude for the platform being provided here. You and I will not see eye to eye on many things, but, I don't necessarily challenge your reasoning for presenting the way you do - please understand that I'm not a "lefty", nor a censorship advocate nor any other such low-level bleeding heart moron, or at least, do not identify with that crowd.
I am not a fan of the way some users 'abuse' free speech, no, my feelings are not hurt and I don't mean for 'abuse' to imply strictly negative things; For a simple example, imagine a teacher saying one of the following: "One plus one equals two", "Okay cunts listen the fuck up! One plus fucking one, equals two, you fucking niggers!", sure it's funny as fuck to imagine, but is it really a practical way to get the point across?
I really don't mind it most of the time(I myself can be quite unreserved in other settings), as I'm reading through for the information anyway, but, it does add clutter and it does make the more sensitive users(who are otherwise possibly good, honest, smart people) question what they're reading; it's somewhat counter productive to keep laying on the teasing and crudeness, when the important information could be just as easily delivered without it.
I get it, this is frustrating shit for anyone who's had to deal with it in ANY capacity, for more than 5 minutes - I really don't blame you for just wanting to put dickheads in their place and exercise freedom of speech without judgement, I'll admit that I can be a bit judgemental about this whole thing, but, even I can understand that most any of it(the crudeness) is not intended as a personal insult (bit hard for nigger or faggot to mean anything if the insulter doesn't personally know that the insulted is either, right?).
Just my 2cents on the matter.
You fucking kikes :P (please note: last line is not meant to be taken seriously in any conceivable way)
Crensch ago
Fucking props to you, faggot. Seriously, I tip my MAGAbyremovingniggers cap to you.
No, the invective I lace my words with is not necessary. I can almost guarantee that there would be little to none had the whiny PG faggots actually had a point at SOME time in the past 6+ months when attacking a mod, but none do. And when they don't, I go from not feeling the need or desire to lace my words, to wanting to abuse the "users" in question.
There are many instances in my comment history of me being sweet as pie to someone that seems like they honestly want to discuss something. I'm seriously open to it at any time. What I get from PG is either people that have no idea how logic/arguments/Voat/the-real-world works, OR what appear to be paid-for shills stirring up shit. VERY few in between.
It's also a filter. What many do not understand is that such things have successfully fended off numerous attacks on this website. Many instances of (most likely) shilling where the shills "literally cannot have this conversation right now" because... ? (they have oversight that won't allow them to engage over the offensive subject-matter or wanting to avoid those hurt feefee words, IMO)
That's a bit of a false equivalence there, don't you think? Unless someone sees mods as teachers, or teacher-like? I can't quite wrap my mind about that being the case. Mods are janitors here, unless they're cancer.
Literally the opposite. I detect no bullshit from you, and respect you for what you've written here.
Good.
You didn't present yourself as a lefty faggot cuck. You presented yourself as a reasonable person that does not agree with some things.
Remove the parentheticals, IMO.
Since you can navigate my words and see that I'm not just some NaziHaterComment chatbot, check out the rest of Voat. You might be pleasantly surprised that despite some shitposts here and there, we're not completely full of shit.
argosciv ago
Oh I get it, I've seen many people trap shills with something along the lines of "Call me a kike and mean it", the accused shill then disappears... this is why I don't intervene when I see someone doing their thing to out a shill, but will speak up if I think someone is being abusive just for the sake of it and otherwise possibly going a bit far, but, that's not me trying to censor any information that may be relevant.
Sorry, to clarify, I was not speaking strictly in the sense of mods, but, any user in general who is trying to share information or "red-pill" as it's often referred to here. The role of the teacher is also one which goes well beyond a school/classroom setting, which doesn't necessarily bolster my point, but is worth noting.
Similarly, even trolling and crudeness has a much more profound ancestry than most understand, see: Heyoka.
Fine, fuck, get off me ya nigger-loving kike!
I never thought the crude users were full of shit, they just talk a lot of it sometimes :P
Crensch ago
In my experience, the internet has forged certain defense mechanisms in people's minds that needs to be disarmed before rational discourse can happen. I find that relentless attacking and triggering of these mechanisms lead to a battle fatigue that causes the mechanisms to fail, resulting in authentic discourse.
But I realize some have the gift of being able to calmly and politely disarm it.
THAT's what I'm looking for. Grab sack and sound off like you've got a pair!
Cheers, bud.
argosciv ago
I can't disagree with your method. I mean, forgive me for saying it, but it's kind of a page directly out of Worldfuckery 101 - NLP, but, using their own methods to our advantage is pretty effective if done 'for the right reasons', in this case, aiming for authentic discourse rather than mind control.
Crensch ago
Unfamiliar with that text.
I'm guessing you mean where humans are mass-inundated with shit until they give up and finally accept X or Y that the powers that be want them to accept?
Never made the connection between those tactics and mine before, thanks.
argosciv ago
haha, well no doubt you'd have heard of Neuro-linguistic Programming(NLP)?
What I mean is that your method of "attacking/triggering these mechanisms", in order to get a specific response, is very much employed by the worldfuckers(my word for "the elites/illuminati" et al) in other ways, for their own nefarious purposes.
So, yes, you understood me correctly :P
Crensch ago
Oh man... like 15 years ago or something, maybe?
Stellar.