Downvoting restrictions are back (announcements)

submitted ago by Atko

100 CCP is yet again a requirement to downvote and changes I pushed yesterday are now reverted. I spent about 6 hours yesterday reading your comments on my announcement and I think it's pretty clear that majority of you had concerns with removing restrictions. Back to the drawing board I guess. Please accept my apologies for causing the mess.

Rotten_Fruit ago

Meaningless in an environment where anyone who disagrees with the majority is downvoated to a point where they never have the right to downvoat themselves. All this does is ensure the loud braying majority never has to hear a dissenting view point.

pangaea ago

I would like it if subverse owners could set their own rules, open the floodgates or even abolish downvoting entirely if they want.

wgib ago

I DO like that you have to be able to earn the ability to downvoat. In the mean time you could at least stop telling me I must be new here when I have an account and I am signed in and I dislike that even after being a member for a little bit now and making comments, and posting content (maybe not the greatest) but putting a flipping effort in here and not just lurking, that I still can't downvote. Its not so much that I want to be able to downvote and whats the point of posting new shit and trying share shit you like when some fucktard gets to come make a comment and be the grandmaster here. Yes I am a hater for being forced to comment a trillion times hoping that one day I'll get the support and be able to downvoat. Fucksakes

NinjaPoolboy ago

I just want voat to be the community that doesn't care so much about getting downvoated or about being some bastion of perfectly "heathy" discussion. Having such idealize and perhaps unobtainable standards, unmet, can turn an already jaded community, toxic.

Voxxe ago

Why is down-voting even necessary? If you like something up vote it. If you don't- move along! On that note why is up-voting limited (besides one vote per post per user)?

nigganaut ago

I. Love. You.

Seriously, I want to have your babies.

smadab ago

What about implementing these restrictions in another way? What if users had to maintain a zero-sum of upvoats and downvoats (e.g. for every upvoat, I get a downvoat). Or perhaps users are required to maintain a narrow, pre-defined difference in the total distribution of their voats? For example, the difference between my upvoats and downvoats can never be greater than 10.

Thoughts?

OtakuYunoGasai_ ago

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Have fun decoding.

OtakuYunoGasai_ ago

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Honestpolitics ago

So we submit 100 comments anywhere, on any article, then we can down vote?

crunchberry ago

Apology accepted :)

Sha ago

Thank you so much for listening to the community!

mtitus6 ago

Can someone tell me what CCP is?

antuna ago

Thank you for listening to the community!

Missouri_Dad ago

Don't apologize. I thank you for listening. You are a wise and strong leader.

ggdsf ago

I think this is bad, I think you need to do it another way through account age

liver_stream ago

please if anything up the points required for down voting. People on reddit seem to downvote way more then upvote. Saying something that is initially sounds controversial means your downvoted to death. This way people have to actively upvote everyone else to hide your comment. Eventually you get people who understand you and suddenly the rest wake up an realize your statement isn't stupid it' just not that clear. So year fuck down voting

king_kraken ago

I must be a minority because I don't like the down vote restrictions.

eyehate ago

Fantastic.

Moderating comments and votes is a great way to lose visitors.

I don't care about upvotes and downvotes. But if you offer them and put restrictions on it - well, I am not likely to keep coming back.

ndwork ago

You're doing great. It's not going to be a completely smooth ride. Keep it up!

BraneS2 ago

The downvoat problem is VERY real, it is still continuing, and many of us are not going to continue.

Seems the CCP count for downvoat may need to be upped considerably, or Voat will lose the few remaining people worthwhile on this site.

I am most surprised at how many Voaters are complaining about this.

PassingShip ago

The spam thing isn't resonating with people. Have you considered actively participating in discussions on the subject as opposed to slapping up a thousand copies of your manifesto. Maybe write it up somewhere and just point people to it when they ask?

PassingShip ago

I've neither begged nor pandered, I think. I also don't add something every day or even every other day, it's really not super hard to do.

mister_anonymity ago

What were the arguments of both sides?

NinjaSaves ago

You're cool. Keep being that.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

What are you talking about, everyone loves me.

Bobfish_Almighty ago

I have no problem with this. I already have a tiny bit more than that, and have yet to downvoat anything anyway

ArcherMcTaco ago

Won't let me downvote despite meeting the 100 CCP requirement. What do?

cupaholic ago

I NEED 6 MORE CCP'S!!! SIX!!! AHHH!!!

Gone_Private ago

You're the man! Now my quest to 100 CCP will actually mean something.

Broc_Lia ago

Holy shit that was epic. There's a thread like it I used to follow on reddit where a couple of redditors spammed arguments at each other for something like a month.

Back-Stabbath ago

Breaking and entering.

Bingoradar ago

Too bad I'm a lurker with 34 CCP

tabarjack ago

So that explains why the site became just like the other place with the downvote trolls (not that I never did it either).

theantisjw ago

I really don't know what happened or why this was needed, but thanks for listening!

Lynchbread ago

I'm fine with having downvoting restrictions but IMO both the upvoting and downvoting restrictions need to be the same number to make sure there are equal numbers of people with the ability to upvote and downvote content.

Skeletor ago

Thanks for listening to us.

unusual ago

I wish i could downvoat this.

mamee ago

Well, 91 CCP to go for me. Glad I'm able to experience downvoating posts during your previous change.

Frogstarius ago

Thankyou based atko

nafeasonto ago

Wow I have gotten so used to reddit admins not caring. Thank you for the breath of fresh air.

eduardog3000 ago

What the fuck, why does it say I upvoted this post? I didn't. And when I remove the upvote and reload, it still says I upvoted.

HammerLuigi ago

I just joined Voat and I already gained a tremendous amount of respect for how things are run here. I like the restrictions and hope they stay for good since it eliminates the possibility of someone creating alt accounts to mass-downvote someone or something.

lazyman ago

I would downvoat this bullshit announcement if I could. Too bad I'm a sub-human introvert.

AzureNova ago

Know what else is an unlevel playing field? How my 2 year old can't vote for president.

AzureNova ago

If you want the climb to be a bit less long, say hello to people at /v/introductions :)

sec ago

The front page already looks cleaner

1862587? ago

well damn. ill hit 100 ccp someday :(

Measos ago

aint no thing sir, you do you suge!!

inflictedcorn ago

Thanks man, I appreciate it. It's cool how your actually taking the time to listen to us and working with us. Don't let us walk all over you though. The site is looking great man!

sweetholymosiah ago

I would support a 1000 CCP requirement for downvotes.

Jutack ago

awesome job on listening to the community..kudo points to you

uberdoober ago

YES! THANK YOU!!!!!

Ben1010 ago

If people want there down voting rights why wont they make a dicussion which every comment that gets posted gets upvoated by everyone who participates?

AzureNova ago

There are a few subverses explicitly for that purpose, and hopefully Atko will have some down time soon so he can decide how to approach those.

norse ago

thanks, i was worried the SJW's and their sockpuppets would field day the fuck out of this place there for a second.

Jubelum ago

Sadly I could not downvoat this -although I am glad for the hard work keeping this place honest

Just_A_Human ago

the next one will. :)

Some1son ago

Yay! Great news and an honorable move!!

Hilarious_Exception ago

YES!!! You're awesome /u/Atko!

LaserOstriches ago

This is awesome. Thank you for being so flexible and understanding. It can't be easy dealing with all this in your spare time.

sometimessage ago

We should be able to buy downvotes under 100 ccp

Biel ago

So back to no downvoats :P.

NanoCat ago

SO i just got an interesting popup when testing this,

"Welcome to Voat!

In order to downvote comments or submissions you need to have at least 100 comment contribution points.

Every time someone upvotes one of your comments, you gain 1 comment contribution point.

You currently have 116 comment contribution points.

Tip: a good way to earn more contribution points is to take part in discussions or say hi in /v/introductions.

This requirement was established as a measure to encourage new members to get involved and participate in discussions."

Wavecutter ago

While I personally fins these restrictions irritating I think they are necessary to prevent easy instant down vote brigades.

Lead_Salad_Shooter ago

You are doing a good job! There will be a few hiccups so don't sweat it. I'm glad you went back to the 100 ccp thing though. I appreciate your time and your hard work!

thibovir ago

It is to be commended that actual users and not advertisers get to weigh in on the format, and how we actually see the process in action!

ajsmth1 ago

i need 100 cpp , please community...

Walther ago

Hats off to you for doing this mate, nothing but respect here. Now while i say this i also understand that there will be times when some changes need to be made and some features need to be implemented where the first reaction is going to be on par with yesterdays and i hope the community also realizes to put a little faith in Atko and Puttitout's decisions when those days come.

hotgirl ago

Why don't you institute some type of algorithm similar to Google? You could deliver points just like you do now, on a one user one voat basis. But then applying a different algorithm to decide the visibility of a post. Where users with certain attributes voats count for more or less depending upon their user activity. For example maybe user's who have been around longer or contributed more content voat counts for more when deciding visibility.

PsychoDesign ago

Hoorah!

jw2hawkeye ago

give me upvotes so i down downvote... really makes lurking hard

Kal ago

Atko, the hero we need! Please hold out as long as you can before taking that huge check that the suits are going to be waving in your face soon. Congrats on your success.

subrosa ago

I still say that the up/down vote system only encourages group think. It is the hivemind all over again, only you have to play nice first to earn enough points to say what you really want (if you care about that sort of thing).

I think a return to focused sites is in my future. Single topic sites do a much better job of community without worrying about any of the issues that come from gathering vastly different interests to one site.

Just_A_Human ago

We have to keep trying new things until we find something that works. the problem with human society is that everyone is incredibly adverse to change and adapting to new situations, even in the name of finding a better way of life.

We became the dominate species because of our ability to adapt to environments around us, let us hope we never lose this.

GibsonRB5 ago

Thank you Atko, clap clap clapclapclap

grodius ago

pretty cool for you to read the community like this, hopefully you still do that once youre so big you dont have to

for the record, the limitation on upvoting and downvoting was something I always used to pitch voat to my reddit friends... I think its a brilliant way to stop random zombie accounts, I think it should take you about a week of using voat regularly to be able to start downvoting.

hairless_rock_ape ago

No harm done. Thanks.

specialinvalid ago

I didn't use any :)

RowdyBusch ago

Thanks, now let's bring back jailbait. Let the people do what they want and let subs self-moderate if no laws are being broken.

Marble68 ago

Perhaps there's a way to do it on non reciprocal voats? You need 100 voats from someone you haven't voated for? Or maybe it's possible to identify a mob of downvoaters.

Perhaps the easiest would be limit the number of downvoats a day or month any one person can get to something small. t's not perfect but it sure it'd help keep the locusts at bay for some time.

You could also sell downvoats. You get 100 a month and another 100 are one dollar.

Lastly, you could make artificial voat forums against the AUP and not only are they nuked but there's a double penalty for using them?

Sydviciouz ago

Aww apology accepted. You actually listened to us!

I'm never leaving this place.

Exuberant_Murica ago

You fucking rock dude! Thats the shit you listened!

GizaDog ago

The shills will be mad.

Maxcactus ago

It is opinions.

eldsvard ago

I disagree with putting the restrictions back on. I've got a better suggestion, remove the downvote system altogether so controversial opinions don't get hidden.

queenblackacid ago

Thank you /u/Atko!

Antinous ago

IMHO, the only thing you should be apologizing for is not giving the removal of restrictions as fair a chance as you did having the restrictions. You were absolutely correct in saying that the voting system needs to change. It's a failed system. Unfortunately, by capitulating after just one day like this nothing ever will improve.

seerick ago

Ive been here a while, and then registered in Feb. As mostly a lurker and one generally late to the party it appearz it will be a long time before i see 100 ccp..... but i get it. A necessary annoyance i guess.

pidey ago

Aww, and here I thought I could participate on your website, and share my opinions, rather than just having to be a fucking yes man to every post, being unable to do anything else.

AzureNova ago

You can comment. You can start discussions. You can post links. You can upvote. You can keep on whining about things that don't matter and keep on pretending that your opinions are right just because they're not upvoted.

Weasel_sniffer_69 ago

At least you actually listen to your users. Unlike some I can mention,its one of the main reasons that I'm on Voat.

FuckedUpFoxy ago

Hey man, no worries

Fiacre54 ago

Tried to downvoat. Couldn't. =(

Powie ago

Like downvoting on youtube >_>

vuerro ago

the force is strong with this one

umatbro ago

Comment restrictions were removed?

TheDominionOfBen ago

Have you considered having a lower cap but making it verse specific? Just because you're popular in /v/Funny doesn't mean you should have any power in /v/Science.

lllllllllll ago

Maybe you could lower the restriction to say 50 CCP. That way there would still be a cap that prevents newer users from brigading plus more people could downvote which was one of your goals.

AlwaysInService ago

That's what I LOVE about Voat. You said there's a change, we commented, you read the comments and acted accordingly. I love you guys. Both of you, even though we hardly ever see @PuttItOut ;-)

genescythe ago

I don't really care about downvoting restrictions, the problem hasn't really affected me. I really really DO care about a service that listens to its members. I am stunned and I am delighted to be part of this community, thank you for your great work!

Ica ago

Thank you for listening to the userbase.
I greatly respect how you run this board!

This raises my hopes for free places on the internet.

jeffmcneill ago

Awesome

NinjaPoolboy ago

How can you tell it was a Majority. The move was upvoated more than downvoated. Having freevoats would be the only way you could tell because a vocal minority could seem like a majority really easily with this system.

Dakevin10 ago

HI! IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE NEW AROUND HERE. IM NOT NEW I JUST LURK

pogiface ago

thanks for listening!

ImSureImPerfect ago

I'm fine with the 100 CCP restriction. But I don't think downvoating should be otherwise restricted.

This seems like a democracy though, so I can't really say much if everyone else disagrees. At least you're trying to do right by the majority. I respect that.

NinjaPoolboy ago

Well you did something GOOD for the site and then you reversed it without giving it a try... sad day.

aboeing ago

Shame. Ofcourse the majority of your EXISTING user base has concerns because your taking away a "privilege" they have. Even if you were going to reverse the decision, I'm surprised you didn't meet them half-way by reducing the CCP limit to 50 or 10.

NinjaPoolboy ago

Looking at the comments wasn't that hard for him because they where echoing so loudly!

NinjaPoolboy ago

How do you know that the decision was "not the best?" There was no time to test it out. THIS IS NOT REDDIT and also, Reddit became crappy AFTER they initiated the SAME rule.

NinjaPoolboy ago

This makes me sad.

dilligafmate ago

Good move, big kudos for not being afraid to listen to feedback.

altered ago

/u/Atko -

What about instead of a fixed "100" limit, you make it so a person can downvote as many times as they have CCP? Then a newcomer could still downvote if they contributed, but they'd need to be careful with them or they would quickly run out.

But, as you already pointed out, this won't stop "hey gimme CCP guise!" threads/comments from happening. In my opinion, the only way to increase voting quality is to make it cost something ("cost" not necessarily meaning monetary value there). This is why I say the only solution here is to make every vote = solve a captcha. Make a vote cost a bit of effort. Apart from making the site members-only, this is the only way I can see of solving this.

ScreaminMime ago

It should be boosted up to 500.

FPHrefugee ago

Just wow. This is so awesome how you listen to the community. It's so unlike anything I've experienced. I love you #Atko

silentshadow ago

/u/atko Have you thought about using a time requirement for downvoating? I think something like a week or two to wait for every new account and a limit on upvoating per day would be a great way to introduce new users to voat. It makes you actually think about where you're voating whether you should or shouldn't voat.

k_digi ago

Here is the link that was deleted multiple times by multiple shill mods on Voat: first @she

https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/comments/416719

( fyi I don't give a fuck about your retarded opinion regarding if you thought deleting it was justified, shill away you are wasting precious WOW calories) ( and the 'money' you are earning for the NSA et al , yeah look up 'inflation' you autistic fucks.)

fellangel80 ago

The only thing @atko has to apologize for is not finding other ways for us to pay him yet!

Hoonsuit ago

Ohh man, I had my chance to test out the downvoat button and never used it. hahaha

Psycadet ago

Thank you based Atko.

It's refreshing to see admins actively responding to the community. I'm glad along with others that the restrictions are back, I feel opinions can be better valued from them. I know not everyone agrees with that model but it's effective and unique.

Merchaun ago

Thanks for listening to the community Atko. Really made me happy that you even responded to my comment. Like I said, if you want to make a compromise with the community, a 50% reduction to 50CCP wouldn't be too bad.

1844780? ago

Now how about removing downvotes entirely? Please?

pidey ago

This will significantly mess with subverses that have moved to self moderation. A big part of /v/mensrights is that they do not delete or censor any comment (Unless it's doxing or linking to illegal content.) And guess what? It works BECAUSE of downvoats.

1860162? ago

Guess they should think of another system, then.

Gimme_Shelter ago

Yay. Thanks for being so open about everything. This makes Voat so much fun.🐐

SexySexySkeletor ago

I'd call what he does more benevolent dictatorship.

EndDrugAndOtherWars ago

Thanks. You're the best.

Cutsprocket ago

Cheers dude

ajsmth1 ago

Need 100 CCP please help

HamHungLo ago

I'm OK with this but, can you at least stop violating my bits?

1843733? ago

I want to thank you for changing your mind about this. Thank you.

thuglas ago

This was a noble idea but ultimately wise to not hold that policy.

LABAnKER ago

Great idea.

thatLdopig ago

And here I sit at 97. Which I knew the format for a haiku and I then I would write one here.

hyperaddic ago

Relief.

OneFifthHaikus ago

Don't apologize. I think I echo a vast majority of Voaters when I say we appreciate the effort and diligence you put into this platform we are growing to love. Thanks.

Darth_Famine ago

I am not really happy about this, it seems to be placing a limit on speech. just my two cents. I'll just go back to being a second class citizen again

Not_for_consumption ago

Good work. Thanks buddy

1010011010 ago

A problem there is that casual users might never accumulate enough 'fresh' CCP fast enough to downvote. Which in-itself isn't much of a problem, but having a cabal of hyperactive users being the only ones who can downvote could be.

The use of "halflife" is interesting, though. If you think about it like actual radioactivity, isotopes with "higher activity" would also have shorter halflives.

So, yeah, you could spin up an account with karma farming, but the high-activity karma would have such a short half-life that it wouldn't retain value for very long.

nickolaibobieskai ago

It's a tough problem to solve. I'm happy to see you're willing to try new things and revert things if they don't work out.

Koala_Tamer ago

Yeah man im like almost having to spam comments just so that I can get the ability to upvoat. I wish i could upvoat you for this comment but i can't.

wolffkrieger ago

There you go, 20 CCP. Have fun!

timdesuyo ago

Hey man, that's how we learn.

ochanada ago

Thats better, now I've got to earn it. Thanks Voat!

Azriel777 ago

I think you gave in too quick and should have let it run for at least a week to try it out. You explained why limits were removed and this current system is being gamed big time while new or young users cannot do anything to counter it. I have seen gamed posts and threads that have obviously been brigaded, so reversing it has solved nothing, but continue with the brigading. :/ I would suggest opening it up for at least a week to try it out and during that time, be thinking of a better solution.

Koala_Tamer ago

Yeah i think its a little intimidating for new users. Just yesterday I was enjoying actually being able to upvoat people, and as someone who has always been a lurker its removed what little ability I would've used to contribute.

NeedleInAHaystack ago

I think you're right. It can be a little intimidating, absolutly. But it encourages you to get over that and join in in the community discussion.

I was more a lurker too, until i was forced to choose between lurking and participating more. Personally i wouldn't go back. Once you get over the initial uncomfortableness of putting your comments out there, it gets easier (especially the more you do it).

ggdsf ago

I think you need to look at why this change was made in the first place, spam bots? there are other measure to take such as preventing downvotes after 3 days and having robot verification upon registration.

elgindelta ago

NEVER!!!! well except for this time...but NEVER AGAIN!!! unless it happens again, and things will still be cool, we love ya bro, keep up the great work. upgoat for you:)

Not_gonna_Voat ago

Oh man, I could've downvoated. I missed my opportunity. Well. . .I only need 78 CCP and I can downvoat! Like that's gonna happen.

blipblipbeep ago

Many thanks to you and PutitOut for putting the time in, you guys rock.

peace...

plumsound ago

True, but sometimes it takes input fromthe entire community to decide if proposed ideas will work for the community or against it. This conversation never occurs if they don't bring it up or implement it (while letting everyone know **keyyy) and it's cool they listened to the users.

NinjaPoolboy ago

But they implemented the restriction without asking people about it so really you point is hypocritical as really the echo chamber is FOR the restriction.

novictim ago

For an example of egregious down voating abuse:

https://voat.co/v/news/comments/416952/1836664

BananaBoater ago

awesome for listening it is getting better and better here

novictim ago

Great idea, Atko! Thank you!

jimrooney ago

Thank you.
We understand the problem that you were going after is still very real and I hope you find an answer to it.

Bioreactor ago

Lmao, dude, the fact you apologized makes you badass

archer_ ago

You're an excellent admin Atko, keep up the great work!

vantel ago

Thank you. I now feel valued.

gamehelp16 ago

That was fast! Thank you for the response!

Nichan ago

Thanks for listening!

phly95 ago

Good point! Have voat buttons AND agree/disagree buttons. If there was garbage, downvoat, even if you press the agree button. Things can then be ranked on voats instead of controversy.

StopEnjoyingThings ago

I don't think this would would work. I'm assuming the people massively downvoting somethings are either very opinionated on a subject or really don't like the comment in question. They'd downvote it so other people won't see it. The only reason it might work is that people would 'voice' the opinion through that new button. To be frank, I think it's become instinctive for some users to just downvote stuff they don't like.

Maybe there could be an algorithm that marks a comment as 'controversial' once it gets a certain ratio of votes, but still displays it.

damunzy ago

damunzy:

Member for: 4 months

Contribution points: 4

Upvoats give: 33

Less important that a 1 week old user that has fake internet points.

PM_ME_YOUR_ELBOW ago

So glad you listen. Thanks.

immibis ago

What about making CCP sub-specific? You can downvote in a sub if you have 100+ CCP in that sub.

l23r ago

So all the [mens rights activists, feminists, queers, homophobes, racists, etc.] can get together and upvote their own stuff but you can't downvote it you happen to see "N....r steals money from old ladies purse - v/porchmonkey" while you're browsing down v/all or see a link to it in v/fuckracism ? Doesn't that go against the idea of an open community and forum? I could see that causing issues, especially in communities like /v/askvoat where there is an agenda being fostered by a particular moderator.

immibis ago

Well of course they can upvote their own stuff. The idea is that it shouldn't affect other subs.

I don't know how it would work out with /v/all though.

Axumata ago

You block /v/porchmonkey and it's done.

l23r ago

It's not a real community (at least not yet)

fellangel80 ago

I actually really like this idea since it means that people casualling other subs won't get to just push their opinion in something they aren't part of.
The idea of making down votes sub specific if one I could really stand behind.

twomoreandatinkle ago

Thank you.

probrem ago

@atko you should have posted this and then ~8 hours later reinstated the downvvote requirement. The way that you did it kind of scews the downvotes the orginial post got to the downvotes this post got.

CowboyXero ago

Honestly, I never cared if I was able to downvote or not. Granted, enough people thought highly enough of what I've had to offer that they've collectively given me the right to do so but I might have used it three times since I've had it in two months. If the downvoting went away, I wouldn't be bothered to reach into my pocket for a shit to give but the fact that you'd listened to your users is bigger than that and I'd rather it be that way for better or worse. Just wish there were a system for actual justification to downvotes rather than just allowing the downvote to happen. If someone feels so strongly against someone else's contribution (a purely subjective thing) they should be confident enough to intelligently defend that stance. Just my opinion.

NoviceApproach ago

I still didn't DV anyone

BatBreath ago

We should start voting on these changes. Too many decisions are made on a whim. Anyone with 100 CCP can vote.

AzureNova ago

I trust Atko more than the voter base.

pidey ago

That seems to be a terrible idea. "Anyone who fulfills criteria X decides what happens to people who don't fulfill that criteria. The people who don't fulfill that criteria have no say over what happens."

k_digi ago

How about this, anyone that give up thier DNA can vote?

thuvia_1 ago

yep. this. right the fuck here.

Crabpuncher_98 ago

I don't think you need to apologize for anything. You made a change that you thought would have benefitted the community and when they voiced their opinion you actually listened. When there is transparency and change is always an option, there are very few bad ideas.

RabidRaccoon ago

Why not make the CCP needed to down vote increase with time?

Gourgeist ago

ffs, I feel like the only guy that actually liked the change.

Subtenko ago

wat about the youtube system? only show upvotes? wat do people think

a_cook_not_a_chef ago

As someone with less than 100 CCP, I still say thank you! I am not interested in everyone being able to downvote right away. I believe we are held to higher standards here at Voat and I enjoy that. Thank you for being so responsive to us as a community.

kugupu ago

Good choice! Thanks for listening. I do agree that there's a problem, but I think we need to just crack down on upvoat-whoring. Maybe there should be a way to flag them other than for spam so a mod can review it? Or should we just be flagging as spam?

thelordofcheese ago

Can we have rolling random word filters which make the comments seem like nonsense or as if the commenter is insane?

fry_hole ago

Hey, you're listening to the community. You're doing fantastically. Keep up the good work, bud.

XDingoX83 ago

You listened to the community.... Wut...

Draegur ago

Even if somehow your listening only permitted you to hear some kind of extremely loud minority, the fact that you listened at all is incredibly heartening. Thank you.

poisonthemonkey ago

I didn't feel strongly about it either way, but I'm happy with how you went about it. I don't think you caused a mess at all, and maybe there's some easy compromise down the road.

You've been doing a great job and I just hope you're not being too hard on yourself!

80_firebird ago

Can somebody please tell me what CCP is?

AzureNova ago

CCP stands for comment contribution points, i.e. the net sum of all the upvotes and downvotes your comments have received

Aramazd ago

Thank you @Atko for listening.

But, how long will Atko be able to keep the site alive? what if the donations slow down? How will Atko keep the servers running?

He will eventually need a way to make money at least to keep things running.

@Atko do you have any plans on how you will bring in money to keep this alive? You cant just take money out of your pocket every time. So hopefully you have some sort of plan.

Tynach ago

While I personally dislike needing a certain number of votes (voats?) to do anything on a website, and I was quite happy about the change, I'm also quite happy to see that you have listened to your users. I might be disappointed in this revert, but overall I feel you are doing what you feel is best for the community - and that is infinitely more important than nitpicky details like this.

To be honest, the inability to downvote is a fairly minor thing. I had at first felt some contempt over this, but after thinking about it and seeing what others had to say, it's really not that bad. It's certainly not as bad as some websites (where you can't post comments, only posts, or some weird things like that; I believe Stack Overflow only allows you to answer questions and not comment until you get a certain number of posts).

Thank you for listening to the community, and genuinely looking out for us. Whether this revert is a mistake, or if I'm just an asshole who wants to downvote people who I strongly disagree with, I think most of us can agree that you're taking this website in the right direction.

Porphyrogennetos ago

Don't worry about it.

As long as you're actively working to try and make this place better for everyone rather than in just an attempt to put out political fires, then you can't really do any wrong.

DudeDude ago

Yay! Rock on this is awesome! Minimum CCP spread not minimum CCP absolute?

ZebraDanio ago

Thanks for being such a good listener.

javierNelson ago

it didn't matter either way to me but i do like seeing people complain about their lack of downvote abilities.

anyhow, this is a cool website, i tell my friends about it. nice work.

1838703? ago

As someone who "loses out" to this change, I agree with and support it fully. Thanks for listening, @Atko.

AtheistComic ago

I wouldn't invest in a Nike shoe clone either. Lawsuits.

I might buy a pair and wear the shit out of them! I'm pointing out an obstacle for voat going public some day... That's beneficial for them to hear more about... Maybe Voat has programmatically fixed this issue in plans? They know it exists.

Codewow ago

For future changes, like someone suggested, please announce them run a poll ahead of time. The community would appreciate it to know what is going to be changing before it happens. The poll would simply be for personal reference as to what people think about it, etc.

Sikozen ago

You're my hero!

ghazkull ago

and I think it's pretty clear that majority of you had concerns with removing restrictions

Or the majority thought "Hooray, finally!" and went off to other threads ...

cillroy ago

The response to the community is an open and timely manner is awesome and I commend you. I have to be honest that I was sad to see the restriction lifted, but respected how it was announced. Bigger props to owning a response to the community and reacting with action and a solid reason as to why.

@atko cudos

schwanstucker ago

Thanks. If everyone plays fair, it takes about 100 points to understand Voat a little bit.

floridadaze ago

We should be able to subscribe to moderators. If we're subscribed, whatever they delete, we don't see.

SenorWhopperpants ago

Well I'm disappointed (because now I can't downvoat), but if that's what most people want thanks for doing it.

Monday_morning ago

ok.... mam

tiber ago

Hey it was great - I propose once a month we have a Purge where you suspend the CCP requirement. I only needed a day to downgoat the shit out of people anyway and found it wonderfully satisfying.

AzureNova ago

April fools 2016?

RedStormbringer ago

@atko, Considering your very valid point about subverses and threads devoted to "whoring" for CCP, which gives those that do it a leg up over other users (possibly the types of users who want to control comment threads), are you planning on addressing this issue in some way, or are you planning on coming up with an entirely new approach to manage these issues and keep things on an even playing field?

Thank you for the site, by the way!

ILikeBur ago

I wish I could downvoat this post :( I was having so much fun

Gourgeist ago

The downvoting restrictions really suck for lurkers. I didn't even get to downvote before it got revoked.

TacticalMoustache ago

Thank you for listening to the community. This type of communication is what can help grow this site into a safe place to speak your mind and learn. Work with us to create a great site and we won't leave. Thank you.

frankenmine ago

Thank you. Whatever extra labor is needed to weed out upvote rings, I'm sure we are more than willing to cooperate.

ChimaeraX ago

I have spent years on reddit and I have 360ish comment karma. Do you know how long it will take me to hit 100 CCP? At the previously mentioned reddit karma rate, it would take me 1.5 years to get past this block. Can you put in something for us lurkers who silently add to the site by also removing the restriction after a certain amount of time?

edit: I misspoke, I have 265 comment karma (365 link karma, I had them switched). It will take me even longer to get 100 than I thought...

AzureNova ago

If you want to get in on the secret, go to /v/introductions and comment welcomes to people. It's safe, easy, and reliable points.

Shinx ago

Thank you Atko! I will happily stay here for many years if you continue to listen to the community.

kenlane ago

Do you need 100 CCP in each subverse? I have 151 but could not downvoat this post.

EDIT: IGNORE THIS IT WORKS NOW

Ohhrubyy ago

@atko, if you ever want, I'll mail you homemade cookies for being so great :)

1982 ago

MOTHER OF GOD

kator ago

I personally enjoyed the content much, much more when people could downvote. Yes, it can be abused, but on the whole the crappy content finally got the downvotes it needed to not be on the front page.

PlasmaDistortion ago

Keep this up and you will create a cult following!

hels ago

Maybe add to the downvote restriction by adding a minimum post amount to the 100 CCP.

MaleGoddess ago

Make downvoats have to be paid for with real money!

matt ago

That's ummm....Not a bad idea. You have a future in marketing...

Necromimetic ago

I was wondering how the changes you had made would affect the site. I saw potential for people to run wild with it. I think keeping the 100 CCP requirement is a good thing.

squiremarcus ago

this site is a labratory for innovation, i support any change as long as every change can be reverted if the community rejects it

SybilVimes ago

Don't worry about messes. Changes and new things are what keeps a site alive. The fact that you listened to concerns and were willing to change back is a huge thing. Thank you!

RijS ago

If people are so scared of downvotes, why don't you completely remove that option?

jc9800 ago

Thank you, its good see that someone people listen to their community.

i208khonsu ago

It would be great if you could implement per-subverse restrictions with lots of options.

Some subverses may want the full unrestricted opinion of the public, others may want to restrict actions on how long you've been a subscriber. However I think most subverses would appreciate being able to place restrictions on actions dependent on activity inside the subverse.

For example I may want to make a subverse where you can only comment by default. Your ability to upvoat will only be unlocked after receiving 5 CCP, your ability to post unlocked after 10 CCP, and your ability to downvoat unlocked after 25 CCP.

An alternate method would be that perhaps I only want comments from expert posters on a topic. Perhaps this is a subverse focused on creating content, and I only want commentators to be people who have submitted good content. So I would restrict commenting and voating by default, but allow people to post content and would unlock commenting and voating after you've made a post that received at least 15 points.

====================

Another thought I'd like to raise is I feel people wanting the downvoat button to represent reporting invalid content is not the behavior which the layman conforms to. It's best to develop your functions to represent how people use them, not how you want to use them. We currently have a 'report spam' button, but I think we should just have a 'report' button. With this you can report the post as spam, or repost, or incorrect, etc...

With this I think that it's also important to be able to give people the ability to view the rankings of a subverse while ignoring the downvoats. For instance you could have categories of: 'Hot', 'New', 'Top', 'Popular' (only upvoats), and perhaps 'Hated' (only downvoats; perhaps make this is "secret" category were you have to type in /hated in the address URL).

=====================

Either way, keep up the good work @Atko! What I love most about this site is that it's continually trying to find a better way to aggregate current events on the internet. Unlike that other site which hasn't made any progress in the past 2-3 years.

matt ago

Wow man. Remember when your role as leader was a little more light weight? Easier? Like, about 6 months ago?

marshallm900 ago

Yay!

weedman420 ago

I would downvote this, but I don't have 100CCP. I'm kidding :) This does make sense

ImReallyHighBut ago

I'm bored.

selpai ago

Wait... They listened? You mean Voat isn't a Reddit engineered bait and switch? I don't believe you.

I'm watching you Voat...!

Waffles4Everyone ago

I think I speak for every goat when I say:"NEEEHH!".

Thank you, sir

ape147 ago

Thanks for listening and responding!

darthskids ago

Thanks.

 

I think the downvote restrictions prevent unpopular opinions from basically being censored by certain groups. I like it.

MOTIF ago

A real leader. Thanks for listening!

FrozenInc ago

And this is why voat is better than reddit.

llagerlof ago

Now apply no limit to upvotes and we are done.

GhettoHaiku_4_You ago

"CCO" mah dude ??

Voat say I need twenty cent

quick ghetto haiku

AzureNova ago

Haiku's are easy

but they don't always make sense.

Refrigerator.

GhettoHaiku_4_You ago

need points to voat here

not a bot, but robotic

sheila jackson lee

aftermossadeq ago

Don't apologize.

NateThomas1979 ago

@atko did you think about any of the suggestions I collaborated from the community? There might be a compromise that can be made to satisfy both those who want to keep the restrictions and eliminate the 'gaming' of the system that some are doing?

Rummel ago

@atko please continue this behaviour.

Gigan ago

You're so fickle /u/atko, but I'm glad you listen to the community.

MrBlueSky ago

I have not commented on this issue so far, but, I feel this is the right decision. The 'training wheels of voat' that another user mentioned are of real value, and lets face it, it doesn't take a lot of effort to get 100ccp.

I would hate to be in your position, no matter what you do you will get disagreement..the old "you can please some of the people all of the time etc".

Its you and putitout that have to make decisions that affect millions, hundreds of thousands, etc. I would just like to say that I. for one appreciate the effort you make, and the 'space' in the internet that you have made

VillaLopez ago

Wait what? Someone in power listening to the little people about little things?? You are fucking awesome!

pooky ago

its cool. thanks for listening!

Kilometer ago

Thank you for listening! Much appreciated!

NeedleInAHaystack ago

It encourages participation in discussion. I think that's why most people like it.

It also makes you earn the ability/responsibility of downvoating.

NinjaPoolboy ago

Do you have proof of this or are you just making it up?

NeedleInAHaystack ago

I don't have data to offer you. But, commenting is a requirement for participation.

The ability to upvoat is limited, and downvoating is restricted until a user participates by commenting, otherwise they can't participate in voating (without restriction).

Again, these rules mean if a user wants to participate in voating, they have to participate by commenting. This encourages participation in discussion.

Macnewbie ago

Id be in favor of heavier restrictions. Such as requiring a reply in order to downvoat or maybe a daily ratio of comments to downvoats. But i think im in the minority in that regard.

NeedleInAHaystack ago

We both are then.... If you're going to downvoat, you should be required to offer an alternative position/explanation. I'm with you.

voatforgoat ago

The idea of downvoating should be to remove spam though, you probably shouldn't downvoat someone just because you disagree with their opinion...that's the reason the CCP limits are in place, and how downvoating was abused on reddit, as it meant that unpopular viewpoints never got viewed and it led to the establishment of a hivemind mentality which everywhere had to agree with for fear of the dreaded downvoat. Sorry, realise I'm taking this way out of proportion here, apologies. But just trying to raise awareness of why downvoating shouldn't be used just because you disagree with someone, hence why this rule wouldn't really apply here I think.

NinjaPoolboy ago

Yet you NO-Downvoat people are hiveminding right now.

NeedleInAHaystack ago

I don't think you're taking this out of proportion. It's just that, while theoretically you are right, it's not how it plays out in the real world.

I agree that what you say should be the case, but it's not what happens... sadly. So when it does happen, the comment should be refuted with an opposing view/reason to believe otherwise, or if it's spam, to just say "spam" then downvoated. It's not perfect by any means though.

Cap_Dec ago

Great idea. I got down it's for something and I have no idea why.

Macnewbie ago

The only problem i see with that is spam. I have no need to reply to the manhood 101 folks but oh boy does downvoating them feel good.

TheBuddha ago

Hit the report spam button. It's the mods job to deal with it.

NeedleInAHaystack ago

haha, yea. That's a problem, but you could just type "spam", then downvoat and still get the feels.

singingoncloudnine ago

Thank you for listening to the community Atko. Having a restriction currently seems like the best thing.

voat-simulator ago

@Atko, you're good people!

snipez ago

There's really no need to apologize. You're working hard to make this a great community and I think everyone sees this. Keep up the good work. I have no doubt you guys will be able to figure out a better solution soon enough.

Echo_of_Savages ago

@atko I love you. Thanks for being so transparent and honest. Thanks for listening to us. If this does become a problem in the future, I think our community can come up with a solution together

LordEastwood ago

No worries bud! It is refreshing to know that you are objective and open minded. There is no need to apologize with that kind of attitude!

Coltoh ago

ITT: People fishing for upvoats.

Biodiv ago

Obviously. Total BS.

PlayByPlayAnnouncer ago

I was thinking of some kind of ratio, making downvoats valuable in some way. Like only certain number of downvoats per upvoat, or per comment, or based on karma recieved ongoing.

The goal would be to give people a disincentive to auto downvoat in conversation, or cruise comments downvoating without contributing.

Tl;dr: tie the continued ability to downvoat to community contribution.

Snag ago

Thanks man. Honestly I think there should never be up voting restrictions even after 100cp. Let's make after every 10 up votes you get reset and need a certain more cp's.

Harvo ago

This is so refreshing

ChillyHellion ago

Please accept my apologies for causing the mess.

Dude, you're going above and beyond in caring about your community. No apology necessary. I didn't have strong feelings about the change (I do prefer the restriction) but I know how easy it is to feel stubborn in defence of your pet project or a specific improvement you think up. You've demonstrated again and again that your community means more to you than that and even though you implemented a change you felt was a good one, you took the time to thoroughly weigh what the community thinks and take it into consideration for your site improvements. I'm pretty damn impressed.

Megacrazy ago

Thank you. This is a major plus point of this site. It should never be changed.

DiggRedditVoatBlank ago

While I'm definitely a fan of the 100 CCP speedbump, I think it's great that you guys are open to trying different combinations of variables, and that you're willing to listen to the community about things like this. This is why I came to Voat in the first place. Thank you.

G392 ago

No need for apologies, man! Keep on trying things, we'll give you feedback and all hope Voat is going in the right direction!

harddrive ago

NiggerFaggotCunt allahaaaakkkbur Gucci terrorist squad in full effect

Cain ago

How about giving us one point with every comment, instead of zero? That way people are rewarded for participation.

AzureNova ago

A possibility, although when I've heard it suggested before, it was hypothesized that people would simply spam 100 comments in a private or no-downvote subverse, to quickly get 100 points without actually participating. Just for consideration

BotanyBoy ago

Oh well, someday I will reach 100 CCP. It was good while it lasted, for what very few times I used it. Some abuse it though, and I understand.

OakXXIII ago

I am ok with that. I was excited that I was given the chance to downvoat but I actually never did...I think, I do drink a lot.

I shall let my mellow styles get me that privilege, in my own time.

voxshades ago

I'm not at the CCP level yet but I agree, it's a good system. Keep up the great work!

Jazsper ago

We all make mistakes

Freshdough ago

It is awesome how you actually read and listen to this community and make appropriate changes as necessary. Thank you @Atko for being humble and willing to admit when a decision doesn't always work out like you think it will. On a side note, I would like to be able to donate and I was interested in starting a bitcoin account somewhere but I keep seeing very negative articles about it and this is troubling. Do you personally recommend any specific bitcoin service for us to use?

JoeMomma8008 ago

No problem Atko, you rule! \\m//

Thank you so much for reading all of our comments, it means a lot.

napolean ago

I hated the 100 ccp rule and probably complained about it because it pissed me off. But once you took it away, I was like "wait that actually was a good idea prevents some people from fucking shit up."

patsy ago

No need to apologize. Launch and iterate is a pretty good way to learn and evolve.

AtheistComic ago

Here is a great leader. Keep it up man!!! We love you bro!?!

Link1299 ago

Cool bean @Atko, I'd still suggest if the system has issues to let us know, I'm certain the community would help to solve any problems.

You and @Puttitout have our respect, as long as the restriction is there I'm sure people would be happy to improve it

Good luck, and if anything we should be sorry. Hope people weren't too snippy about the change.

PuttItOut ago

Wanna help spec out an anti-brigading framework?

Link1299 ago

um... sure

(assistance required)

edit: I'll mull over this don't worry, at first I wasn't sure what you were asking, I'll post some ideas on /v/ideasforvoat

PuttItOut ago

I'll be posting something about this soon. Got a pretty cool idea I think.

k_digi ago

Keen to hear it, looks like this was popular:

Here are some points that were quickly censored by mods:

https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/comments/416719

Was deleted by the famous @she turd.

DinoWizrdKing ago

Well I got my first down vote in, after being here for over a month... Can't say I'm happy about the revert. :(

ItsThatCanadian ago

I love that you guys take the time to actually read through our comments and figure out what the community likes and dislikes, changing things if they need be.

you guys are doing a great job, keep it up!

trecht ago

Good. I liked it better

senpaithatignoresyou ago

Perhaps a probationary period for new accounts? Like they are limited the the amount of ccp they can get a day. This will make it difficult for corporate shills to put ads on the front/top of a subverse.

Also, have quick rising posts from new members be flagged for the mods to see. So that way if they are a new account misusing the system, the mods can take care of it.

Monsoonie ago

Thanks for trying to make positive change, keeping us aware and listening to feedback. I really like this place.

Charred_Coyote ago

Hi atko!

Thanks so much for listening and responding so promptly, you did a great job. Even though the community didn't like the idea, it shows a lot of maturity to respond and listen to it. Thanks a ton, and Keep up the good work!

Son_Of_Hate ago

No need to apologize. You wanted to improve the site, and you had some good reasons. It was just a matter of poor timing: the problems you wanted to solve were ones that the community didn't need to address yet.

nunontherun ago

Thank you.

Ebb ago

Thank you for listening to us! This gives me hope in the future of this website. Founders that care :)

pm_me_your_big_boobs ago

Thank you! This was the right decision.

glimmandenymf ago

I imagine that since this is a relatively new site with many new users, there's a large group with ccp below 100, but it doesn't really take that long if you participate and contribute. With time, most people will have over 100 ccp and the shills will get their downvotes.

minibeep ago

wtf how is this even possible ?!=? many times less people working on the site than reddit but much better management

Feeling_my_goats ago

Thanks

CA_Dreamer ago

Thank you for listening and caring about what the Voat community was thinking. I think you are doing wonderfully, and I support you and Voat wholeheartedly. /hugs!

BraneS2 ago

Thanks. How does a wonderful site like this attract SO MANY trolls and shills? Most disappointing.

They do not understand the downvoat.

I would love to set up a subverse where we could list these very obvious trolls and shills. I have had to keep a list of all the clueless trolls on this site, so as not to waste my time. But it is a long, long list.

Is intelligent dialogue really that difficult for these people? And where is the fun in name-calling and bigoted and racist comments? While it reveals their character, it also drags VOAT down with them.

seargyseargsearg ago

He's not your pal buddy!

I_Plea_The_FiF ago

He's not your buddy, homie

SteveDC ago

It's cool. I didn't actually feel the need to downvote anything anyway.

sillymanilly ago

Try stuff, reverse it if it don't work. So long as no animals are harmed don't worry about it.

1839630? ago

You'll never learn to properly grill a steak with that attitude.

seargyseargsearg ago

@atko you are seriously going to be the leader of a massive free speech movement and already are. If you were ever to come to the USA and run for a senatorial position I would vote for you in a heart beat. Thanks for being an icon to us all where there are so few left who actually value the freedom of speech.

machina70 ago

Pussy.

And please don't interpret the loudest whiners with no lives as being "the majority"

Respectfully,

Guy who thinks you're a pussy.

shrugisor ago

That was fast. And that's what I like about Voat. The admins listen to the users and implement changes ASAP. Kudos /u/Atko.

batcountryharlot ago

You'll figure it out! :D

BloodPool ago

@Atko, I just gotta say man: It's so very refreshing to see the creator of an online community this large actually give some fucks for us. You and @Puttitout have continually shown both a willingness to listen to your community, but also that you care enough to resolve issues brought up by the community. Thanks for doing you, and thanks for Voat.

josemon ago

Double edge sword. I don't like it. I think it's impossible to completely block the bad apples. Best we can do is making it as difficult as possible for them.

Malphius ago

Thanks Atko!

RayZfox ago

But somebody might downvote my comment. ;_;

YayForBacon ago

This is a good move.

I will admit though...I did like having the power...even if only for a day.

Tsugumori ago

You spent that long reading our comments? Damn. I'm pretty sure I could never manage that much dedication.

jacobgkau ago

I had a thought while reading through all of the complaints about downvotes. People always point to the fact that downvotes are used as dislikes. Does anyone have a problem with the fact that the upvote is used as a like button? Only upvoting things you agree with is going to have the same effect as downvoting things you disagree with. The popular stuff is still going to end up on top, and the minority opinion is still going to be at the bottom due to a lack of points. I know in theory you would upvote anything "relevant" to the discussion, even if you don't agree with it, but we all know that people don't do that.

SwiftCase ago

I still feel like we should have tried it for a bit. You shouldn't always listen to the majority, because sometimes people don't know what they want; like when Youtube made all those changes and people got upset, but eventually everyone realized it was better.

1855708? ago

Malcolm Gladwell would be proud of you :p

But seriously we should have let this play out. Voat has an unfortunate tendency to be more bias than reddit, and although that's probably partly due in part to the demographic, I think the upvoat/downvoat restrictions play into it. New users can't get enough karma to participate unless they can get other users to agree with them enough to upvoat them, a site characteristic which likely alienates new users and prevents different opinions from emerging.

NotThisMind ago

Just the fact that you listen to the community is great, you really shouldn't be able to just downvote everything like leddit let's you, i think that restriction bar is just in-place to prevent downvoat's brigading & crap.

JustWonderful ago

@Atko Thank you. I'm honestly extremely impressed how you are handling this all. Instead of forcing something you find to be the way to go but the community doesn't like it, you ACTUALLY listen and do something about it. Can't say I've seen such behavior on big sites (and yes this site is big nowadays) before.

emook ago

I must admit that when I read about the limit removal I thought that the system would / could be abused by brigading. Its a really difficult problem to solve, I hope we as a community can come up with a better solution.

Pattoe ago

I think it's great that you're still experimenting and then reading feedback and making new changes.

In my opinion there was no 'mess'. Summertime changes just don't work out.

I understand the thought behind the removal of restrictions, there just needs to be better protection against spammers.

wilwithonel ago

I personally had no issue with the removal of the restrictions, but it warms my black little heart to see an Admin listening to the concerns of his userbase. Good on you, Atko. Makes me proud to be a goat.

umyeahnope ago

Thanks for responding so quickly.

Grguch ago

Thank you for listening and respecting our wishes!

citruspeppercorn ago

Perhaps instead of a site wide limit of 100 CCP it goes by a verse by verse basis. That way brigades and abuse of down votes would be made a lot more difficult while users who have invested time in their respective verses can still use it as a means of quality control.

mintberrycrunk ago

that was fucking quick!

DanielFlamino_ ago

I love your butthurt <3 U MAD? :)

endlessly_wandering ago

I'm glad you don't stubbornly stick with (kinda poor) decisions you've made. It says a lot of good things about your character.

president_eden ago

Thanks for bringing it back and listening. I really think it makes for a better community. It really does not take much effort to get to 100 and helps keep a positive site.

DanielFlamino_ ago

the cum on your chin looks cute :P

takshis ago

Thank so much for listening to us @Atko. I was initially bummed no CCP restriction would allow for trolls, SJW's and what have you to screw with the community. I'm letting out a sigh now. :)

voatergoater ago

It's all good, @Atko. No worries, and I doubt many here will be upset by being guinea pigs! They're so cute...

Kleyno ago

Once again, @Atko has shown how a mature, well meaning developer/admin approaches a reversal of position.

Now if only politicians and certain CEOs could learn from this guy.

Ebenbane ago

@Atko Dude thank you for being so involved! Love it Here!

0iamlordeyayaya0 ago

He's not your guy, friend!

Don_Ford ago

I'm so impressed right now. I have a saying, that the merit of a good writer lays not in his or her ability to have good ideas but in his or her ability to let go of the bad ones.

bilog78 ago

Back to the drawing board I guess.

FWIW, I've thrown a possible suggestion over at ideasforvoat (but so have many others, as I'm sure you know 8-D)

pornhub_katie ago

Alright back in business. 1 alt account for sale to the highest bidder. Bitcoin only. Already past the hunnit ccp.

Thatdrumdude ago

The fact that you listen to your community, and are actively trying to make it better through suggestions and clarity, is why I have made voat my internet home. It's amazing to see a community in its infancy. I wasn't here for the creation, but I'm glad I get to be here for the major building, and get to experience transparency and appreciation for a community from teh Devs.

l-emmerdeur ago

@atko your commitment to your community is admirable.

WellThatsWeird ago

I really like the fact that this guy gives a fuck.

xandor ago

Nooooooo... Just when I made it back to 0 CCP!

Sutcliffe ago

Woohoo!

mindful ago

Thanks for listening to the concerned userbase. I was quite surprised when i read the announcement. Maybe it would have been better if you had consulted with the users first, before making this change?

It is great to see that you reverted the decision. Requiring 100 CCP to downvote is a good thing, even though some users/subs have found ways to circumvent the process it is still a good thing. Maybe not the best solution but i rather have this measure (100 CCP) than nothing.

Sciencegirl ago

Hey I think we that we all appreciate the amount of time and effort you put in. And the fact that you are willing to listen to us is kinda awesome. Thank you.

k_digi ago

Are all previous algorithms related to voting restrictions back in place?

The reason I ask is because the actual up vote limiter was acting as a multiple for the down vote puppetry.

I.e it was creating much more work for our cute little retarded keyboard monkey friends.

I.e you were probably nearly costing the NSA as much as they're going to gain by Voat incorporating in the USA.

Techttz ago

Thanks and thank you for not removing my ccp I already had accumulated. Not that I'll get 100 it's just nice to see it there.

p0ssum ago

Keep acting like this and we might just have to stick around:)

Good job sir. Listen to us, we know what we want, and we're a pretty sharp bunch. There's a reason were here, and now you guys are the reason we are going to stay. I donated before I had an account, I donated when you removed askvoat as a default, and now I'll donate again.

CptCmdrAwesome ago

Good call. 6 hours, wow. In that time did you see any alternatives worth further discussion? The point of removing the limit was valid, just wasn't worth the potential side-effects IMO. Maybe a sliding scale where SCP + CCP / something = number of downvoats allowed per day, with minimum of 1, and disable downvoats for negative total?

scowlingatmonday ago

Thanks @Atko. The 100 CCP limit is what I loved about Voat the most. You'll figure something out!

ToOnMaN ago

I have to say that i thought the downvoat 100CCP rule was retarded BUT then i sat down and started posting. It took a single day to reach 100CCP.

aikidoka ago

lol, 5 months on the site; I currently sit at 15CCP, and cannot downvote the truly shitty useless posts... I occasionally post a comment, but just not an everyday thing.

I think some form of balance could be found. I like that you're working on the issues that do exist for those of us who aren't in the standard voat use case. But I do agree with the general sentiment that a downvote ≠ disagree.

rdnetto ago

Counter-anecdote: I've only been a member for a month, and I've got 90 CCP. I don't think I've even been that active - probably posted 5-10 comments once every 3 days. It may help I tend to post in the Linux subs (which have less traffic, and are therefore easier to post something original in).

I think the threshold could be lowered to 50 CCP, but I don't have any problems with the underlying idea, which is that downvoting is restricted to people who actively participate in the community.

I_EAT_THOUGHTS ago

Similarly I have been active for less than a month and I am almost at 100. I think the requirement is a good security measure for preventing the manipulation of discourse, though it may not be enough on its own.

Hand-Banana ago

I fully expect to NEVER be able to downvote.... Even if you get 100ccp it goes down. You either have to be super popular, super active or just create a ton of accounts and upvote yourself. At least fewer people can go through your history and sage your posts.

dante2025 ago

If you don't participate in the community then you shouldn't be able to downvoat opinions you find "shitty." If you lurk, then lurk. If you want to be able to participate then contribute to the discussion. I've been here about a month and have well over 200 CCP. It's not hard to do.

aikidoka ago

wow, ok. I am busy with my life instead of the being in front of my laptop 24/7. And I was talking about posts or links to content not comments.

I like user sourced sites to read interesting content, and not everything that's posted is quality.

For example, when a heavily biased article (either direction) makes its way on to /v/politics and adds nothing to the conversation; I consider that a shitty post; There was one exactly like that yesterday, the only thing I have been able to down vote, and it wasn't an OpEd either. I like my "reporting" to be, what journalism used to be, well written and presented with both sides of the story as available at the time of publishing. Think about the crazy OpEd things that happened in the news surrounding that CEOs dismissal... not good reporting and not ethical at all. We should be making informed decisions based on neutral information, not the crazy MSNBC/FOX group think we get now that influences ideas and thoughts. Look to the SJWs and the crazy "liberty"/tea party folks for extreme examples of that byproduct.

/steps off soapbox

cfl1 ago

Comment downvotes and post downvotes are quite different.

9ac504b832 ago

But our upvotes are good enough? I'll be honest, I kind of resent you saying people like us don't participate, when I've been nothing but supportive of people. We're not lurking, we're just keeping our dumb opinions to ourselves (mostly).

gattaca ago

The 100 point downvoat thing is what discouages me from participating on voat, no one likes to be told they are not leet enough to participate snd this includes downvoating obvious spam. You want my content and participation, don't insult me by forcing me into the kiddy pool.

I_EAT_THOUGHTS ago

Down voats aren't "participation" - commenting and contributing are. Down voats exist only to identify posts that don't contribute to the discussion at hand. Maybe the poster didn't read the article, maybe they didn't understand the comment they are replying to and are being negative. Regardless, if being able to tag those posts is more important to you than being able to discuss things with others, it's probably a good thing that you'll never be able to do it.

NinjaPoolboy ago

Ya me too. If upvoats are for Agreements downvoats MUST be for Disagreements or else the system is really fucked up. Which it is. I personally think this "no downvoating disagreements" thing was part of the SJW strategy that killed reddit.

Kal ago

Reddiquette was dead long before the SJW movement, and I don't think they had anything to do with it. It isn't surprising it's a new concept to a lot of you.

fluffingtonthefifth ago

Upvoating is not for agreement, it's for interesting content or a well-argued comment.

laikaislost ago

That's what it is supposed to be, but in practice it turns into an agree/disagree button. Look at any civil indepth discussion where people disagree. The popular opinion gets upvoated and the minority opinion gets downvoated. And currently, only those who post a lot get the power to downvoat, which reinforces the majority/minority opinion.

calyxa ago

"Obvious spam" should be REPORTED not downvoated.

justcool393 ago

I'll be honest, I've never gotten the report button to work correctly. It just sits there on "reporting..." or whatever it says instead of completing correctly.

whisky_cat ago

Wait, you're being forced? Please explain.

PuttItOut ago

Promote this guy for offering his opinion.

Konk ago

Cheers Atko. We appreciate the efforts of yourself, @puttitout and anyone else involved.

goodluvin ago

Glad you are working on these problems.
Trying new ideas is great way to advance but,

letting the Voaters review ideas before implementing might be a better idea.

Kadynce ago

Thank you @Atko!!! :D

IrbyTremors ago

No apology needed.

jerry ago

Atko, you the real MVP. If you end up reading this comment, just know an American guy named Jerry thanks you for your work!

Lusp ago

You know your stuff @Atko. Keep up the good work.

SrBearLordofOldCastl ago

Good you came back to your senses, glad you listen to your community ^^

Genghis_Khan ago

This is a point that cannot be underemphasized. One should always be skeptical when a loud voices start clamoring the way we've seen here. Sometimes you really have to stop and stare for a bit to understand why exactly it might be that suddenly a number of people are, say, accusing a mod of being an SJW. While it might not be reasonable to expect the mob to come to its senses, those with higher level view should be able to see past it.

1rash ago

@Atko You da real MVP.

ryry117 ago

I wanted to comment how grateful I am you listened to the community but it looks like they beat me to it. Still, thank you so much just for listening!

PiercingAjarDolphin ago

No apologies necessary, this already means Voat is diverging from Reddit. Their admins wouldn't give their users the time of day as things are now. I think we need to find a new way to encode the "downvoat is not a disagreement button" stance to teach people how to behave properly. The experiment was a novel one, but the results unfortunately meant that users started acting just like they were on Reddit again. We need to avoid that at all costs.

camoceltic ago

Please accept my apologies for causing the mess.

Dude, no apologies needed. You're doing what you think is best for Voat and its users. In this case, a lot of us disagreed with you. Hell, the fact that you're willing to say "I screwed up" rather than going full Reddit and continuing with the action when the vast majority of users don't like it shows you're doing good by us.

Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 ago

You are trying things out, experimenting, and being creative, that's the crucial element I think this site has working to its' advantage. Though I did not agree with the changes I 1000% support you innovation and dedication.

dis_is_my_account ago

Removing the downvote restriction wasn't your solution to the problem was it? I thought you were going to implement another idea with it. Are you still working on that or did you scrap it completely?

maaaaa ago

This challenge of making free-speech discussion work, is dreadfully important. It's the answer to the question: Can democracy survive in a world filled with tyrants? Thank you for your work.

Absnerdity ago

I had just gotten used to actually being able to participate in the website while remaining a lurker. Sadly, I can no longer up/down voat.

Thanks?

k3mist ago

Thank you @Atko

luddite ago

I spent about 6 hours yesterday reading your comments

Thanks for making this a 2 way communication thing rather than a decree from above.

happycatsunshine ago

Thank you for listening!

Pitt_Rebel ago

Seriously /u/Atko you are the best. I love this site and feel as if I'm part of a family. This is a much better environment then that other site.

petrifiedforest ago

Best idea, and glad to see the lack of ego behind the scenes here.

inablackbox ago

Nobody, and no website, is perfect; as Voat continues to grow, there will be missteps. The important thing is you considered our criticism and responded quickly and decisively. Great work, Atko!

lawofchaos ago

Atko, you are really awesome and I hope that you always stay in charge of this website. Although if someone comes along and offers you a large amount of money for it, I honestly wouldn't blame you for taking the offer.

This is a strange situation because I half agree and half disagree with the whole thing. I recognize the problem with this system because it doesn't stop a FPH asshole from 'earning' their CCP in FPH and downvoating away in any other sub they choose but at least it makes it harder for them. I still think the CCP limit should be per sub by default rather then site wide.

V-sync ago

Thank you for listening to our concerns. As much of a benefit removing the restriction was, it caused more issues than it fixed.

bscoder ago

What a bummer! I was hoping you would get rid of all of the restrictions so that merely having an unpopular opinion doesn't impact someone's ability to participate.

Surely there must be better ways to stop brigades than this.

k_digi ago

Ok people someone start a sub dedicated to this issue, and let the devs read through the suggestions.

I've had a lot previously, the solutions are pretty well known, but there is no point repeating it all here where it will get washed away with spam.

Phoenix_MD ago

Three cheers for @atko!!! Makes a unpopular decision and has the balls to listen to the community and reverse the decision. You and Voat have my loyalty from here on out

Migrantworker ago

I love having to earn your right to downvoat! Just made it myself

Pinkmushroomlover ago

While I don't care for any of the upvoat/downvoat stuff, it's cool that you listen to the community Atko

Big_Willy_Wallace ago

Wow. This is truly astonishing. You, sir, are a saint.

FromThatOtherSite ago

Thanks for listening to our concerns /u/Atko.

pr0nw4r ago

Any kind of downvote restrictions are retarded. Be it from zero or from 100. Its a dumb concept and wont do shit. And yes I also hate niggers and all kinds of minorities. Still, thats my freedom of speech you messing with. The same thing could be done with your leftist garbage.

Dingo8MyBaby ago

No apology needed, atko. You listened to us and rectified a situation in an expedient manner. That's amazing and we as a community are lucky to have you as our admin. Thank you.

fighuass ago

What? Why does everyone want this? Good to see that the admins are great at listening, though :)

NinjaPoolboy ago

Because they are not thinking about human behavior and free expression, they want a vote-hugbox. Just look at all the comments that DONT agree with the restrictions... they have the highest amount of downvoats... like hypocrites much?

Chompchompers ago

NO ATKO Why!? Atko, there are so many people that don't want to comment. Why? Because they don't fucking want to comment. That is all there is to it! By placing restrictions you are forcing them to do things they don't want to do, it drives people away.

Tommstein ago

I don't agree with the restriction, but mad respect for listening to the people.

Pumbadog ago

Thank you, eternal leader

Aathroser ago

What about a time restriction? You must have 100CCP in at least 4 subs, and have an account for at least 10 days? That way those subs upvoting new accounts won't do any good?

LegoMyEgo ago

Yeah adding a time restriction would be good too, similar to how /v/subverserequest has their requirements. But of course, not that strict.

ImReallyHighBut ago

You realize that's why you're here, right?

Illithium ago

It's good to know you are not afraid to turn back your decisions and keep listening to the users. I see voat having a bright future.

weezkitty ago

Respectfully, I think the users jumped the gun without giving the change a chance. But I respect you for listening to what the users want. Something that doesn't happen over at Reddit.

Can you clarify if it is only the 100 CCP to downvote is back or if the upvote restrictions are back too?

redheadslove ago

I feel bad for all of the time that had to go into that for you, but I'm also super glad that you put the time in to listen to your users and the community. Thank you.

Zack_Fair ago

fuckin' bravo dude. it's like you have a plug somewhere in you that gives you feedback from the community

setitimer ago

There's no need to apologize for trying to make the site better for everyone. I appreciated that your motivation was to make it easier for users to be able to fully participate; it's very hard to strike the right balance between protecting a forum from spammers and brigades, and making it fun for normal people. Even better, you listened to feedback and you acted on it. Thank you.

Aathroser ago

Ultimately, I feel this is for the best. While it is still possible to game the system, you have to put a little bit of work forth.

You might consider adding a time limit in addition to the CCP goal to prevent people from gaming it.

Weebo ago

Thank you for listening and acting. I appreciate all your work.

Sandow ago

It's all good. Voat rocks, just like always.

ooli ago

Instead of listening of opinionated people, did you check the influence on the front page? I mean data-metric have no agenda to push, nor need a sense of personal entitlement. Because the down-vote available to all seems to make the frontpage more variable and diverse.

And you already know the 100CCP limit is a fake rules that any organized group can overcome to gain voting power over individual. So i't really really bad. And the 20 CCP limit, make people less interested into posting or reading link. Pull some real hard data out of your server and check for yourself how much things changed during the few hours of no limit. Did the comments get down in number? If not, the limit serve NO purpose!

NinjaPoolboy ago

Agreed. It's so fun that you'e downvoated by people that are whining about getting downvoated. I noticed the same hypocritical behavior when reddit had the same "brilliant" idea... look at where it lead them.

ooli ago

Their worst argument is : 100CCP limit make people learn to use downvote carefully. BULLSHIT It's exactly the opposite: When you reach 100 CCP you downvote like a madman because that 's a new "power" you just got. When someone get a hammer, everything look like a nail.

k_digi ago

Suck dick autistic keyboard monkey, the algorithms are relatively simple;

What @Atko and devs have been missing is how time effects information flow, im guessing they understand now but are under pressure.

If someone sets up a dedicated sub, I will be happy to explain.

Sorry for the insults if you are genuinely retarded, if not fuck you.

laikaislost ago

See, I would very much like to downvoat this comment. It is insulting and adds little value to the conversation, but I cannot because I don't post enough.

I think there is something wrong with the downvoat lock until 100CCP

k_digi ago

Well, you made this very much useless and whiny comment so that should suffice.

I_EAT_THOUGHTS ago

There is nothing wrong with replying to say what you just said. I agree - ad hominem insults do nothing but degrade a conversation and detract from whatever post the user is making. I'm happy with expressing my down voats with a post that other people can up voat if they like.

The poster you're replying to just doesn't understand how hatred affects the flow of information - maybe someone should set up a sub verse to help him understand.

NinjaPoolboy ago

NO fuck you!

ooli ago

This kdigi user is some sort of teen, who roleplay as an alien or something. Dont waste your time.

k_digi ago

You can check my DNA I'm just human as you think you are.

Typo ago

I think it was above 100 at one point. It forced people to contribute instead of lurking. Shills couldn't shill because they would run out of voats to give.

CthulhuFerrigno ago

Hey man, this was just, like, our opinion.

1833331? ago

I never supported lifting the down voting restrictions as this site needs an aura of positivity to thrive as a beacon of free speech.

NinjaPoolboy ago

WHAT? free speech? downvoating is speech and it is not "FREE" under this wonky system. You KRAY KRAY!

CANCEL-CAT-FACTS ago

You are the real MVP.

blastar ago

There go my downvoating rights again. Well, I haven't downvoated anything anyway, since I encountered nothing worth doing that.

sweetholymosiah ago

Are people downvoting you just for kicks? like wtf...

TheGreatBambino ago

Same, guess my opinion is worth less here.

Seansean ago

I agree . I feel sad for not having the option to downvote again, but I haven't found any content I felt like that was warranted . I found some excellent articles that I wish I could upvote more than once.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Here, I'll help.

TheBuddha ago

And this is sort of why the rule was changed in the first place. Giving points to enable people to voat, instead of them earning them via actual contributions, is what was seen as the problem.

Meh... I am not in a position where I care but I can see why Atko would object.

Alarian ago

I'd downvoat you for whining, but I can't. :-)

KingRumple ago

And you have my bow.

Kiwibomb ago

And my axe!

(Don't tell the elf)

josemon ago

And my ax.

happychildless ago

Another set of restriction may still be better.

On the other hand, the link share quota is harsh. 2 per subverse per day would be much easier to live with or ability for mods to lift it.

kna5041 ago

Thanks for trying, it's not a perfect system but I like you are listening to the community.

RickySpanish ago

Thanks for listening Atko, The 100 CCP requirement is a good idea.

ThizzBoss ago

Hey atko, thanks for reverting it. I think you should take 100CCP even further. If your account is 6 months old and you haven't gotten any ccp in 5 months, should you still have the right to downvoat? I think the requirement should be proportional to the age of the account so it's harder for trolls to get to that "100" mark and then go back to shitposting and brigading.

WarNeverChanges ago

I think this was the right move, but can see why removing restrictions could benefit the community in some ways.

sergeantslate ago

I think overall the benefits outweigh the karma grabbing posfs. I appreciate listening to the community Atko.

flat_hedgehog ago

Dear Atko

Thanks for listening. I didn't comment in that thread because everyone else had already made the point about downvoating brigades.

AlkaiserSoze ago

No worries, @Atko. Thank you for listening to your user base. Just another reason why this site is superior.

Biff-Top-Johnny ago

You're a hero @atko

Farseli ago

And this is why I'm not worried about changes on Voat. It is clear that the community matters. Thank you /u/Atko.

Typo ago

You got a lot of good ideas so I'm sure you'll figure it out in no time.

offbrand ago

While I completely respect that this is your website and appreciate your right to do whatever you want with it. Its super awesome you want the user base to decide its fate. That is what will make Voat different and keep it awesome.....as long as its users are awesome.....

LegoMyEgo ago

Since the voat farming posts seemed to be central to the downvoting restrictions, would it be possible to revert any efforts done by those posts and undo the effects? I know you guys are busy and taking care of this in your free time, but maybe nullify any points that are earned in a post like that. That hopefully will discourage users to create them in the first place.

Wafflebutt ago

Much as I disagree with the voat farming, I would worry about how this would be applied in situations like the one in this thread where other users just spontaneously started helping out a fellow voater by applying extra upvotes. It might be one of those things that just have to be tolerated.

Zkv ago

Don't worry, people will find a way to bitch about it no matter what you do. People bitched about the 100 points thing when we had the influx.

AberdolfLincler ago

Awesome. I think it really helped the majority of people respect downvoating more, as more than a disagree button. I read your post, and you're right that it can be abused, but that doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Perhaps moderators could just delete posts that beg for contribution points? Make it a site-wide rule?

edit for afterthought: Another similar solution would be to take it a step further, ban accounts that have been caught using the "beg for voats" tactic. That way, moderators shouldn't have to constantly do it, because people will know that it could get them banned, not just deleted, which puts them back to 0. You could also have it so people can report for that, once again, taking some burden off the mods. So I guess you'd just make a sticky post, throw it in the sidebar, however is best to let people know of the new rule. I think that might be the best solution, but I trust your judgement /u/Atko, just figured you'd appreciate suggestions.

Mr_Wolf ago

That would be the best, deleting posts begging and asking for votes. I used to help run a text based game and votes were required to be able to post in the forum and also showed respect whether positive or negative on their profiles and it worked pretty good.

Oknatora ago

I like the showing people of your down voats and up voats. That way you can tell if someone just does more harm than good.

JManSenior918 ago

Thank you, I really think that is the way to go. 100 CCP doesn't take years to build up but it's enough to show you how much you use the downvote. I truly believe it's better this way too as it prevents people from having accounts used solely for downvoat brigading.

justcool393 ago

I think it depends on your stance on issues. If you have differing opinions than most of the users on the site, than it can take a long time to build up 100 CCP as people will be downvoting for disagreeing (whether they should, well they shouldn't), but it's easy if you conform the opinion of the group.

JManSenior918 ago

Hive mind is definitely a valid argument against the rule, I'll concede that. But even if you only average +1 CCP per comment, that's only 100 comments which is not unreasonable at all. This also the shows people whoso have differing opinions how to civilly discuss the fact that they think someone else is wrong, rather than just blasting them with hate or trolling them.

Furthermore, it's my opinion that limiting the ability to downvoat actually decreases the likelyhood of someone then using it as a disagree button. Obviously that is not universally true and people will always be trolls, but I still feel it's an improvement overall.

l23r ago

Isn't there at least a few communities you could go to where there's like minded people you can connect with? I'm not only suggesting that so you can get 100CCP - it's also a way to meet new interesting people.

ImReallyHighBut ago

Are you a fat loving nigger?

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Yes.

frshmt ago

You're a cool guy @Atko, you're a cool guy...

Egon ago

You da real MVP

luizmanzato ago

That's pretty great. This will prevent brigading and vote manipulation.

cfl1 ago

Pure fantasy. The brigading subs have been doing CCP circlejerks.

Sinful_Casshern ago

You're a good dude, man.

The_Answer_Is_42 ago

You're a good man, dude

ginx2666 ago

You're a dude man, good.

The_Dude ago

Thanks man, I dig your style too.

Kal ago

I logged in just because I couldn't stand to see The Dude getting downvoated.

SurpriseMotherfucka ago

Man, you're a good man dude, dude man

ImReallyHighBut ago

I love how this place is all niggers and fat people and what's on reddit. The people have spoken.

Lol. Can I get a rage comic in this bitch?

realpatrickstewart ago

Mmmmm... I'm warming up my downvoat button!

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

SET PHASERS TO DOWNVOAT!

Liker ago

Atko, unlike reddit actually listened to what we wanted. And for that I thank you.

TheBuddha ago

The sad part is that this is unusual and not the default state. I have been online for a very, very long time - since BBS days and 900 baud modems (even 300 buad! And we liked it!) and, really, I had higher hopes for this creation. The monetization, an important step, has had some impacts that I do not appreciate. I would have preferred it go another way but all I can say is that I tried. I still keep a few CoLo servers in Michigan and give out space to worthy projects as time permits but, frankly, this stuff is expensive and needs to be paid for somehow and the users lost interest in paying. The quality of the content may be the reason, I am not really sure why.

Either way, I am glad that this choice was made. I was not sure what it would lead to.

invisiblephrend ago

and they say goats are stubborn.

NinjaPoolboy ago

he didn't listen to me

Makingbaconpancakes ago

Not only did he listen. He acted on it...within 24 hours. Dude is killing it.

miistahmojo ago

...and he didn't even mention popcorn!

Aathroser ago

A site that listens to its users and content creators will survive. One that listens to the advertisers and ignores its content creators, however...

Sinful_Casshern ago

Hey now, reddit still listens to what putin wants. That counts for something...

Scandinavian ago

Hey, Reddit also listens to the no-income, no-ad-revenue-generating Tumblerinas that ruined the place to begin with.

Nationalist ago

Actually those kinds of people are the most profitable.

Scandinavian ago

And how is that again? I working with, among other things, estimating market sizes. College women in liberal fields aren't a microsegment that's up there, at least not in the markets I've seen estimates for. In fact, they tend to be the worst segment in their macro-demography as there's a small l/t potential for brand loyalty due to low prognosis for lifetime income.

Craftkorb ago

So, Putin is the community? That's deep man.

ducttape83 ago

Did you not hear about Reddit complying with the Russian government to block certain subs in Russia?

JustWonderful ago

Don't forget to Heil Merkel!

daviddave ago

Holy shit! this is how you run a website :D

giroth ago

Seriously, props to admins.

Kwisatz_Haderach ago

It's refreshing, isn't it?

Sha ago

Incredibly refreshing. I am glad to see a website listen to its community like this.

Zebezian ago

Yep. Makes me want to spam F5 like a madman. :P

fightforthehive ago

Thank you for listening to community. It gives me great hope about the future of the site.

drunkywood ago

and being willing to try and strike ideas that work / don't work

corprat ago

...for now

DontDomeMe ago

Not just that. Promptness too.

JTMTL ago

Love the strategy, open up the rules and see who cheats them ASAP. Then identify and localize.

Vespera ago

That and the prompt response time. ~ 24hrs is pretty good.

Pryce604 ago

Yes. Thank you @Atko for what you do. Everyone here appreciates it very much!

Bathroom_Humor ago

Indeed. And on that note, he doesn't need to apologize for anything IMO. He was doing what he thought would make us happier, saw that it might not work, and reversed course. That's not worth being mad at him over.

I'm sure eventually you guys will find a solution to the issues we face, Atko. You have a lot of suggestions to worth with! Maybe separate agree/disagree and mod point buttons won't be the best thing but SOMETHING will work better than what we currently have, I'm sure of it.

turbotuck ago

/u/atko is doing a great job so far, let's hope this becomes the norm.

Kabuthunk ago

Listening to the community, I like it.

BrianFellow ago

Are you trying to get the most negative CCP possible?

cklucklunick ago

SRS pls go

Turbo_Sloth ago

/u/atko I know you might not be perfect, and that's okay. You're trying your best and listening to the community and for that I commend you and this great site

bananacakes ago

I agree, although I think "listening to the community" is what got reddit so ban-happy.

Rich77 ago

Ironically recognizing you're not perfect makes you a little more perfect in a way

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

I feel like we have a chance to break the endless cycle of corporitization and sanitization constructed by Digg and Reddit. Atko and Puttitout are very strong tools for building the social network that we want.

We love you, guys.

corprat ago

...for now

Bobfish_Almighty ago

It's almost like...not being a dick to your users is actually easy and rewarding or something

CatoSierra ago

neither digg nor reddit nor voat are social networks.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

In a way, they sort of are, but they're more news aggregators.

CatoSierra ago

in what way?

cobeast ago

Tools. Aside from the obvious joke, that phrase betrays a feeling of exclusiveness, and self absorption not to mention a complete reversal of the actual situation.

That is how my ex (we just split) would have critiqued that.

I, on the other hand, think it's a perfectly fine contribution And agree with the sentiment.

So who do you like better now? Me or her?

Cool. Lets hang out sometime. Nothing serious, maybe just coffee, I think that would be nice.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

So who do you like better now? Me or her?

Yes

cobeast ago

I upvoated you. Who comes through here and downvoats stuff like this anyway? Why does everything have to be so serious and important. I bet it's the robots. I hear they are everywhere.

Sullysq ago

Did you just call Atko and puttitout tools?

tentonaraft ago

BURN HIM!

Kookus ago

Jesus, dude... are you still at this?

Danbear ago

... can... can, I use him... plz

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

@DanielFlamino found the Commie

SpaceRosa ago

Do you actually think this gets people interested in your shitty website?

sostoney ago

Stop that already. This is not a place for spam.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

@DanielFlamino looks like you've got an evil twin.

ThizzBoss ago

eventually he's going to want to get paid. Everyone wants to make money off their work and get rich young.

ThizzBoss ago

Wow guys that's a lot of downvoats for an accidental double post. Chill out

flimflamedthezimzam ago

I thought you got downvoted then reposted the exact same thing for upvotes to show us what bipolar assholes we all are.

ThizzBoss ago

You are dumb if you think that

bieberhole_69 ago

you can get rich without turning the site into complete shit

ThizzBoss ago

eventually he's going to want to get paid. Everyone wants to make money off their work and get rich young.

Drugs ago

is your username a mac dre reference?

ThizzBoss ago

No, it's a reference to myself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o38ywbvxLFA

Ancient_Unknown ago

Exactly, I don't know why people are acting like voat "is it". Voat is the end-all for social networking sites and it's a bastion of freedom and blah-de-blah-de-blah.

It's only a matter of time before it becomes like Digg and reddit (if it keeps growing in popularity). This is nothing against atko; it's natural.

DustMolecule ago

Well, yes. Somehow this must work out financially for them, eventually. Obviously the "reddit" model is undesirable...so what else would work? The internet is still the "wild west".

Indiana_Jones ago

I'd be very willing to pay 5 a month. Maybe 10 Euros. If there are 1000 other guys like me I'd say were set for the early game.

ThizzBoss ago

Uhh he'd be a broke ass nigga if his revenue was 5k a month. Think of hosting costs

Indiana_Jones ago

Well, we must pay more then!

Dindu_Baggins ago

You can still get paid while maintaining your integrity. It's when you compromise that, that you become a sellout.

Number1dududuNumber1 ago

Now that Voat is incorporated I'm sure he'll be working towards that venture capital that was mentioned not too long ago.

Enel ago

Hopefully he doesn't sell out for a little. Like Notch he sold out for a billion.

Huggles ago

He provided a Reddit alternative to hundreds of thousands of people (millions soon hopefully). That's a pretty big contribution to the world. He deserves to get paid. However, patients and not being greedy will payoff bigger in the long run.

flimflamedthezimzam ago

What about Arron Swartz?

ThizzBoss ago

He an herod so who cares

bayesianqueer ago

But some people are satisfied with making enough to be comfortable and beyond that aren't willing to ditch their ethics to make even more.

ThizzBoss ago

I think you should have to contribute if you also want to voat

bayesianqueer ago

I was talking about your statement that "Everyone wants to make money off their work and get rich young."

That said, are you suggesting that only people who give money to Voat should be allowed to voat? That's a spectacularly dumb idea. People contribute in a myriad of ways to something like Voat. Say for example someone who's content contributions or work as a mod are worth way more to make Voat great than the $20 in BTC I donated? They shouldn't be able to voat, but I should?

ThizzBoss ago

Apologies for my last post. I responded to the wrong comment with my " I think you should contribute" comment. I meant to send that response to someone who said once you get 100ccp, you shouldn't have to keep commenting to downvoat.

ThizzBoss ago

I never said that retard

bayesianqueer ago

well that escalated quickly...

Lindeed ago

I don't have problem with @Atko want to make money, hell, if he want to buy boat (because why you wouldn't have a boat?) i'd be rather happy to see big banner "gib me monnies for boat'n'bitches or i will sell my soul to nestle".

Gordam ago

Hell yes, if @Atko wants to use the 30$ I just donated towards a boat/sick graphics card/etc., I'm just happy knowing he gets some enjoyment after work.

0iamlordeyayaya0 ago

And I don't blame him. I just hope he stays involved in decision making.

Pissed-Off-Panda ago

He should get paid, both of them should. It's called reaping the rewards of your hard work.

hels ago

I agree and disagree.

It was Atko's choice to start voat and from the start he stated he wants free speech and is not looking for advertisers.

Once someone starts making money they usually begin to think, "how can I make more money?" It's why redd1t sold out and is controlled by advertisers now.

If the voat community decided to pay Atko he might be content with anything received. However, my point above still stands.

No_Regretzky ago

Not many people in life have time to run a major website as a hobbies (with jobs/wife/kids). At one point, you need to make this your job and it needs to find a way to make money or else the site dies. A way that I can see them make money and keep their values is by donation and selling ads spaces to the community (the community can choose if they want their add black, be a post, maybe their small business or just a thank you message). The problem is, I am not sure if that will make enough money to run a site.

Scandinavian ago

I could easily chip in $100 a month for them until they get a decent revenue stream going. Now we just need 50 more of me and they'll at least be able to pay their personal bills.

Twist ago

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Maybe we can pay him rather than the advertisers.

FilmMakingShitlord ago

Why not take advertisers but don't bow down to them? Sure, it might all be porn like on pirate bay, but it's possible to get advertisers without cow towing to them.

javierNelson ago

if an advert is enticing enough, i'll click it, and i've been on the internet for like 20 years so i know better

Upvoats_McGoats ago

It's too easy to add the ad sources to ad block. Same is true with Reddit. That's why Reddit allows advertisements in the form of AMAs and other Frontpage posts. Money making and dishonesty.

Scandinavian ago

The latter of which tickles their gallery of overweight misfits from SF Bay in all the right places ...

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Because that kind of drives away people.

Tynach ago

Annoying, badly placed ads drive people away. Especially the type that block content or distort page layout.

Thin, text-only ads (like what Google offers) don't make websites as much money in the short term, but they're typically not intrusive and I usually don't mind them.

Though to be fair, I still personally block them - but only because of how many websites out there use Google Custom Search, and sometimes those text-only ads are placed such that they look like search results. Same goes for Google's own search engine, ironically.

CowWithBeef ago

It would be nice if we could all invest in restricted shares. Community ownership could preserve the spirit of free speech.

NeedleInAHaystack ago

That's a good idea, maybe submit that to /v/ideasforvoat. I would consider it, but I could also see why @atko might want to retain a majority.

CowWithBeef ago

100 ccp you can downvoat, 10,000 ccp you can invest. I think the legal system is entirely unprepared for something like this though.

TIGpro ago

The boardroom would give new meaning to the term "circlejerk".

AtheistComic ago

I would not invest in voat because it is a reddit clone. They would need to change and grow a new delivery method before I invest. I might donate or buy something though.

Tynach ago

Understandable. People forget that investors will only invest if they are reasonably sure that their investment will return more than they put into it, and Voat isn't quite at that stage yet.

They either need to either grow to a fairly large size (perhaps not as large as Reddit, but at least as big as Google+ was before Google forced it on everyone), or create a new, novel system that hasn't been done before (at least, not successfully - as long as the lack of success wasn't directly due to the type of website to begin with).

I say that as a jobless college student who lives with his parents, so perhaps I'm not the best person to give such a statement. However, I have met with business people (and various investor-like people) in the past, and I'd like to think I know roughly how they think.

AtheistComic ago

I think we were mostly looking for something better in policy... And design while important is not critical to policy successes.

Tynach ago

I was thinking not in terms of design, but more in terms of how the website functions. For example, Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit are all considered 'social media' - but how each is used is fundamentally different for each one. From the user interface to the basic database structure, down to what it's used for.

Omnipresent ago

That is something I am willing to do.

ThizzBoss ago

I donated $20

AthleticSharts ago

I donated as well (I honestly don't remember how much...$15 I think). Still waiting on my flair...

Just_A_Human ago

You can't hold your leaders accountable until you learn to hold YOURSELVES accountable by putting your own views under public scrutiny. https://voat.co/v/LiveDebates

This guy just deletes every post under his moderating power in an attempt to make himself look correct. Who wouldn't want to have a live debate with people who Heart censorship and enjoy using the word "faggot" at every opportunity?

leftbins ago

We get it. You're a scared little sissy bitch coward wetting your panties at the very thought of having to prove your fucktard views are relevant.

Go back to hiding behind your mommy's keyboard you pathetic little girl LOLOL! :)

Just_A_Human ago

uhoh... you can't delete this post! Better start the personal attacks!

Nationalist ago

I think it's a bot.

Just_A_Human ago

7

DaneilFlamino_ ago

i thought you'd be up to 8 brain cells by now

Just_A_Human ago

didn't you forget to use the word faggot?

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

That's exactly the mentality we need. Whip out your credit cards, let's give back.

Indiana_Jones ago

It's only Bitcoin now though, right? I have a hard time, letting them go

ThizzBoss ago

are you jealous of my profile badge

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Yes

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Oh my god thank you.

I would hug you but I'm like 1000 miles away.

Best. Admin. Ever.

Kleyno ago

But... but Amalek. He now has reasons to post his censorship spam again.

Meh, I'll still take this. Best system we have right now. But those wonder twins behind the code will find a better one in due course.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

It's the best we've got now, besides at least it prevents Amalek from downvoating.

akuta ago

BAE?

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

BÆ.

ConstaChugga ago

For some reason I read that first as Bash, then as Bae.

Craftkorb ago

BÄ

minibeep ago

WE GOT Æ Ø Å ! WE HAVE GOT THE ÆØÅ

frshmt ago

SIZE MATTERS!!!