Hi guys!
I was having a discussion with resident shill @kevdude in PMs about free speech on Voat and thought it was worth asking all of you to join. So here goes!
It's 2015: SJW time
Some of you might remember when Voat was in alpha, back in 2015. The SJWs moved in as Ellen Gong Phat Pao was doing the dirty work on Reddit and people were migrating over here. As you know, SJWs always follow to censor the free exchange of ideas. A little cunt in particular by the name of 'she' was quickly raking in mod positions. AskVoat - the most active verse at the time - was being censored left and right.
SJWs are like parasites: if you have something valuable, they'll try to suck the blood out of it
At the time, the culture here was still mirroring Reddit. At the same time, Voat was set to be the next big thing. We made PV to run the SJWs out of town by making sure they wouldn't have a quiet moment until free speech was guaranteed here. We won a lot of short-term battles then, and the likes of 'she' are nowhere to be found as verse owners.
I stopped believing in higher ideals. I think you have to fight fire with fire napalm
What ultimately made me leave PV was a strong disagreement between myself and another moderator on one side and @kevdude and @crensch on the other. I've later understood I'd run into the same problem over and over again:
I don't believe in free speech unless the playing field is level. I now believe you have to fight the SJWs (and other parasites who want to control other people's lives) by beating them with their own weapons first. Then, when everyone sees the value of free exchange of ideas, you can have that.
Voat is not a level playing field. And it's losing, big time
The current rules of the site (still) allow for shills and brigaders to push agendas into common spaces. Meanwhile, it seems what was ultimately a free speech place made itself irrelevant by allowing drama to take over where the SJWs left off. Voat is much less relevant today than it was in 2015.
If ProtectVoat is really here to protect Voat, we should set a new direction
We started this discussion before the recent blackout. It highlighted its necessity, though. If there is to be a Voat that does something other than provide a place to yell kikeniggerfaggot in (with no clout beyond our own reach whatsoever), I think it's time for major change. As of 2018, I would personally think a place like PV should support and fight for something else. Because the game is rigged anyway.
- I don't believe whatever drama group (including this one) should set the rules for niche subverses.
- I believe verse owners should have the right to moderate as they see fit, as long as there's at least five-ten non-moderated general interest verses.
- I believe Protect Voat should actively fight to have a full-time admin overseeing that the site isn't manipulated.
- I believe Nazis and SJWs are two sides of the same coin (people who want to control others' lives) and should be treated alike
- I think Voat could do so much more to advance universal ideas of freedom - at all levels from universities to global institutions - if verses were allowed to run with frameworks set by verse owners.
Disappointed ago
Its been 10 days now. Judging from what I've seen over that time period nothing here will change until the server goes down. I'll check back in around this time tomorrow to see if you guys have made any progress. If not I'll checkout back out and you can sort it out yourselves. The current Voat isn't the one I grew to love.
@kevdude
Scandinavian ago
I agree. It's not worth it. They made their bed; now they can lie in it. The only constructive talk I've had was with people who already checked out.
Scandinavian ago
Well, there's a codified and a cultural aspect to this. It's not worth it to makes rules if nobody wants to acknowledge why the rules are there. I think creating the new rules would be the easy part; having the discussion about why they need to exist is another. I'm not sure there are enough people left who actually want Voat to succeed and survive.
Scandinavian ago
Absolutely. But the current way new users are welcomed is retarded; any business owner would make sure that didn't happen.
Crensch ago
https://voat.co/v/whatever/2436579
Scandinavian ago
Interesting. Why so polemic, though?
Crensch ago
That's a pretty ambiguous question.
Mickgoestojail ago
I can't really change it now people will think I changed other stuff.
Mickgoestojail ago
I'm not talking about you, but alts from many groups. It was just meant to be a broad example.
Nerobot ago
Its still a complaint about moderation on a sub that should be marked as generic. Its exactly what this sub is for and not off-topic. If you were serious you'd both be even more reluctant to flair it since you are both involved on thee same mod team. If he makes repeated posts about the same thing then start flairing it not abuse.
The second one should be the off topic or drama flair. Since it's a long running feud it should be drama. None of it is about mod abuse,advertising or a shill.
Disappointed ago
I'll have a look at the flairs later tomorrow and see whats up with all of them. For now the important thing is what you think of @Scandinavian's idea's.
Nerobot ago
Welcome back :)
Nerobot ago
I haven't seen him reply to this yet. All I have is your say on what he will do.
Nerobot ago
We already have it. A mod complaint, however stupid is marked offtopic and a girl crying about being called names is a left alone with no flair.
Mickgoestojail ago
It was a fine example in the context I used it in. Concerning alts used to make comments to affect a change.
Scandinavian ago
:D
... and that was before I learned the only thing that'll make you guys stop whining about muh kikes is the general love for speculating who may or may not be a shill. ;)
Disappointed ago
Under what conditions would you take back the sub? You have some ideas here in this thread but have also said at this point you wouldn't mod the sub. Essentially a lot of our old core users have left and what you have here in this thread is the amount of people who would care on way or another. The admin now seems to be back and ready to get in the saddle.
Scandinavian ago
Hi man -
Thanks for the work you did here, first of all.
It's not so much what I would want, it's more what the site management sees the site becoming (or not becoming). I think there's something to build on on Voat, but why would anyone make the effort? Everything that might develop the site is met by a pack of rabid retards. New users yelled down or called shills. That's going to be a big, fat nope for everyone who's ever been outside their home.
Voat had some chances to actually become viable, but god forbid if specific-interest subverses won't accommodate the muhniggerkikes edgelords. I respect if the site and the site's community wants to be that, but I can tell you how it ends up: Loserville.
There's still space in the market for an actual alternative to all the other social sites we have today. One that lets all subcommunities have their say. That's not the case on Voat today, at all.
And my god, the drama in here. I can understand it to some extent on Reddit where power means access to millions of people. Here? It's drama for drama's sake. All the readers have already been pushed away.
Disappointed ago
Have you been following @PuttItOut's latest comments, especially from his last v/voatdev submission? He seems to think something similar is needed. I quit my janitor roles here after seeing a new user downvoted to -36 for asking what was happening. If an angry mob of users can do that, they don't need me to remove spam for them. I'll do it again if the free speech is restored here for non-spam users. That's me saying I'll do work to ensure the spam is kept down so people who are restricted from speaking can do so.
So let's look at the post you made here. Most of the people seem to agree the drama side. No one here likes being called a shill without evidence. Most seem to even agree that special interest subs should be left alone. So we have one problem. None of he current mods of this sub wants to delete off-topic content. So we're back to the reason you left so long ago. In fact this post isn't so different from those you made then. I posted in those. So maybe if you want to lead a charge of change in this sub and potentially on the site, you need a clean slate. That's what were are offering you. I've spoken to @kevdude and he's spoken to @crensch, he tells me. The offer is there. If you don't want ownership of the sub fully, I can stay to be a silent owner who allows you to run things as effective owner. That's another option. Talk it over with others and kevdude still, but those are my options I can put forward to help.
Alternatively, I've come back to keep the sub open for the public even if the others still want to leave and you don't want to take the reigns back. I don't have time to devote to running it full on but I'll keep the doors open for the users to have the sub to use, if need be.
Scandinavian ago
I hadn't seen that, but thanks for the link. He does seem to agree what the site's problems are. And it's completely killing the site, too.
Yup! :)
I hear you, but a couple of problems. First of all, what's the upside? So we get PV back to being a place that fights to secure a future for Voat, but the site itself has to change for that to happen.
The downside is the time spent swatting away the absolute worst of humanity, who have (again) invaded a stage they didn't create. And no, I'm not saying you can't dislike the Jews. I'm saying you look an awful lot like SJWs while doing it. I have exactly zero minutes to help these people.
I mean, look at the response here from some people right in this thread who took over a space not created by themselves. That kind of unearned entitlement is only found in fat feminists otherwise.
I appreciate it, I really do.
So far, so good.
I think it's getting clearer that Voat can either be a site for 20-30 Nazi-SJWs or a site that gives all communities a chance to thrive. And then we're back to my original point: you need to moderate to not be taken over by people with bad intentions. That's not limiting anyone's speech - just start your own subverse, you're allowed on v/all - but it's protecting those who want to talk about something else than muh niggerkikes.
Disappointed ago
Right but at this point you're the one willing to pursue change. Most of us agree with you but we aren't the best ones to do it. We all fought hard to keep the system subs free of bully mods. It took an excessive amount of whining to @atko and @puttitout most of the time as you know or we cornered the mods into leaving themselves after a meltdown. Some think we went too far at times and maybe we did. @Crensch, Kevdude and I can be arseholes. We didn't play by the rules and were overprotective of the PV brand at times. We are stubborn and too proud to delete things. We've left up pictures of @haveyoursafespace's turds and argued if they had too much corn in them(man needs to see a dietician for sure) to be safe for work. We just aren't suited to do the job needed to keep the sub on track like you would need to. We did what the times demanded. We still have areas where each of us can help the site though.
So Puttitout will be implementing this new voting system sometime soon(TM) where users can trigger a vote for system and public subs. Private subs can use it too, but it will be mods using it as a referendum. So it seems like the perfect time. Every idea needs a driver. I think you can be the driver in this new environment. Setup the sub and lead by example. Choose some like minded people as mods and see where things go. I think the site has followed the lead of this sub in the past and maybe will in the future. I'm not sure if your ideas will work but the site is in trouble; the Chief has said we need to change up to survive. He will probably need help doing that from other people. I don't think you will change may minds unless you hav a platform to do it from. PV is that platform.
Also make no mistake this thread is quiet but a lot of people are watching it like hawks.
Scandinavian ago
I hear you, man. I need to think a bit about things, especially if there's a future for Voat at all. I'm not going to battle with the detractors of the site with no higher purpose in sight. Or, for that matter, without a general understanding on the site that things need to change.
I think that's the point. I understand why the people I don't necessarily see eye to eye with resist change. I, too, hate the way certain opinions are censored and de-platformed. That's not what I want. I think the strength of a site's commitment to free speech is exactly to have room for everyone - including those that say things I find utterly retarded.
But we need to all agree the current state of things isn't working and is, probably, killing Voat in order for change to happen. Otherwise it'll just be another drama round for no reason at all.
Disappointed ago
That's fair. A lot will depend our silent admin.
haveyoursafespace1 ago
Voat, the problem is in the name. You'll never have equal freedom of speech on this shit site, because that was never the intent from the start.
As long as there is voting, forget it. As long as there are mods, forget it.
You people are stupid.
You people are stupid.
Nerobot ago
That was a log time ago. Both of you now are PG mods which is full of drama and both are in the drama of the fighting against rPV. It's not really your fault but before we had a balance on the mod team. Any chance of @disappointed coming back?
That's fair but you didn't mention any of what's in that comment until I bought it up.
Disappointed ago
I don't think we'll see him again :(
CheeseboogersGhost ago
"Nazi's and SJW's are the same side of the coin"
What about jews then?
heygeorge ago
Flipping the coin
Mickgoestojail ago
The turd at the bottom of the toilet that just won't flush.
Nerobot ago
It wouldn't matter if you left anyway @Crensch would never give up power here and he's far more into to the drama that this killing this sub than you are. @Scandinavian would have to make a new sub.
freshmeat ago
I was with you until that. You have ulterior motives. There are no such thing as nazis.
Anyways can i repost this in /v/realProtectVoat?
FedorE ago
You know there is a new option in your modpanel sidebar to manage stickies. From there you can sticky this thread without reposting it, by pasting in the link. You wont be able to mod it though, because its a container of this subverse in your own.
heygeorge ago
Hey may not know that due to ruining his mind with alcohol. Good looking out!
Cargill ago
What I never got about this sub is that even if the mods delete something, it's still visible. So if something really is off topic then what's the big deal? Just put a link at th top of the sidebar to off topic submissions and link to the modlog. Make a rule that mods have to include the name of the person in the ban text. Time has marched on and its time for voat to pull together and stop attacking itself.
Cuckbot ago
Its about fucking time someone did. It should have been you making a thread months ago. We need stop calling people out o private subs. Some subs we should still go after like Chicago, Toyata and yes, Pizzagate because those are names that hold a public interest. Everyone else we need to leave alone and make a competing sub without all the downvoting of the other subs members. It's killing Voat.
I don't agree with your v/all comments idea either. Just leave private subs alone. If you force people to listen to nigger and other shit they don't want to hear they go elsewhere. You and I helped kill Voat by our actions ad so did a lot of other goats. Lets get behind the admin and help him save it.
Your system never worked. You know who made that work and how. It was good while it lasted but no one should have to wade through 100 music videos. Your new friends made sure subs that emulated it were bought into line. I think you got played there but I'm not solid on that. Anyway, I agree and respect if you want to step off because you wont delete things. Brother did the same on v/linux, although he was going to hand over anyway. Give the other mods a chance to run it their way. If we need to get the word out about system mods we can use this sub or v/whatever. I'll have your back on those and the reddit troll mods of generic named subs. I wouldn't trust anyone but the former mods here though.
Why would I be anon? Part of why I was annoyed because you cared more about anon retard than us old PV guys. You made sticky o th sub and I didn't know shit about it but I wated to give feedback all the same. Second, he was right about the dumb @dooob sticky. This is the guy who called everyoe who couldn't delete accounts shareblue shills based on his retarded bullshit. Then you prop the retard by pinning up a thread that says if you cant say shareblue you are shareblue and if you do say shareblue you are shareblue. I know you did it to piss off off freshmeat. But you also pissed off people like me who valued that we always demanded evidence of claims. Now we are no better than Sanegoat calling people shills with no backup. Do you get it now? If you don't get why I was annoyed then you don't get why so many hated sanegoat. I stuck by you guys but retarded pins wriiten by retards just so you can take a stab at @freshmeat are where I draw the line. Maybe I'm annoyed because I did have faith in you to carry on where my brother left off. That's on me though and not on you.
dooob ago
I called users that i strongly suspected of being SB operatives out. For 3 days they insulted me and deflected, 3rd day two known shills return to my old thread and call me shareblue, 2 minutes appart from eachother, like i predicted.
Where were you during the voat blackout? Pls dont deflect my questions.
freshmeat ago
you have been witch hunting like a desperate faggot, and you are likely SB yourself. Since they dont operate under that name any more I suppose you are called something else
Cuckbot ago
This is where you need to improve. You could have just checked the voat preview but instead you tried to force me to come to your table to answer you. If I refuse to answer your question, I'm suspect. If I do answer your question then I'm suspect because I answered it.
So go fuck yourself with a sharp goat horn.
dooob ago
Where were you the first two days of the blackout? You came the third day with all the shills. Why were there 0 downvotes in the first two days? Why did downvotes start coming the same time shills arrived?
Candace ago
You mean like a real brother?
Cuckbot ago
Yes, like a real brother.
Candace ago
Ok, wish him all the best from us.
Disappointed ago
Thanks :)
Cuckbot ago
Tell him yourself :P @disappointed
Crensch ago
I pretty much 100% agree here. Even with the Court of Voat opinion, upvote brigades with alts renders any user-based decision toothless.
heygeorge ago
Hear me out for a moment if you will:
Remember how Putt has been working on a voting algorithm? Remember how he said we need it, yet users have been bitching that they've never asked for it?
Consider:
The Voat-voting algorithm (and its 'anti-manipulation' code) is designed to fight Voat's alt problem without users having to publicly acknowledge it.
Crensch ago
Considered that. Not sure how it'd help with anything beyond determining who mods what subverse, but then again, I never figured out much about it on the preview site.
heygeorge ago
Beyond mods, the 'outcomes' could be all sorts of things; whatever Putt/the users envision. Such as: Ban/unban a domain (globally) ban/unban a user (globally)...
I wonder if there could be an 'anti-sockpuppets' setting for subverses to use to keep alts from stifling discussion.
Crensch ago
Maybe disallowing votes from low-effort accounts?
heygeorge ago
What do you mean by this? Care to clarify? There are different rule sets available on choosing who can vote based on their activity in a sub.
See the alt bastards who also replied (specifically to this comment and note how many upvotes are on the profiles.
Crensch ago
Some of what I saw required certain CCP/SCP in the subverse in question in order to vote - maybe a vote to stop low ccp/scp accounts from voting on stuff in that subverse would be possible?
heygeorge ago
Yes, that is possible. And the level can be set as well.
Kevdoge ago
His code breaks on tor and vpn alts. Its not detectable by the system and alts will just lay their 20 votes on any system sub vote because that's where they farmed their shit homie. It's like people avoid that obvious thing over and over. Why do you avoid that over and over?
heygeorge ago
Have you seen the code? How do you know this? You do not. If the code is that simplistic, why would it be taking so long to develop and test?
Crunsch ago
I don't need to know the code to see that when I used tor to manip the votes on preview in a small way he never noticed. All of my votes were marked valid. Unless he has some CIA level shit downloaded to our PC's he isn't stopping any alt manipulation by tor or vpn.
heygeorge ago
You mean to say Putts is not stopping your vote manipulation. Why would you purposefully tank the site?
Crunsch ago
Because he asked everyone to try to tank his preview site and voting system? That's what the site was for you ninny.
heygeorge ago
I am referring to the main site. But please, deflect while hiding behind alts! Works every time...
Both of the profiles you replied to me with have a remarkably large number of upvotes for the very short time they have been in existence.
Mickgoestojail ago
These are trolls, George. Look at the names. If what they say is true and they are saying it loud then perhaps they reported it on the preview site? ~~~
@Kevdoge @Crunsch? Did you report it?
Crunsch ago
I would like to state for the record that GayHeorge is a soggy biscuit type of guy.
Kevdoge ago
Of course we did. No one knows what HeyGeorge shits out because the voting system was never on the main site. He takes too many drugs.
heygeorge ago
No shit they are 'troll accounts' (though obviously a single troll). :D
I have not seen a report like the trolls are suggesting, although I may have missed it. All bug reports were supposed to go on the main site.
Mickgoestojail ago
It's all up in the air really.
Scandinavian ago
Just want so say: whatever our differences, I have the deepest respect for your insistence on hearing out other opinions. From me at least.
Nerobot ago
Do you want to be remodded here?
Scandinavian ago
At this point, no.
Nerobot ago
Look Atko noped out of here a while ago. The money is running out. Puttitout cant handle this on his own either. Unless we get another mass migration with a sustainable income, Voat is living on borrowed time.
Unless you are sole owner here and build up this sub back up with decent people who believe in free speech for all then the game is over. The current owners don't. They own both pizzagate ad PV? How is a complaint from there going to work?
Scandinavian ago
Thanks for the implicit vote of confidence. I do believe in free speech for all, and I do believe Voat got more than one pretty unique chance to become the free speech exchange of ideas.
It didn't happen. Largely due to management incompetence in the beginning and later on, that incompetence manifested itself as a dead end community.
Real talk for a second: you can't build a site with a critical mass based on people who don't build anything themselves. SJWs creep in and take over already established platforms. So far, I haven't seen Nazis do anything but the same. There's no forward movement. It's miserable people going in circles. We get it, you don't like the Jews. Now what?
Look at the people who have fun. /pol/ is fun, but they don't take anything too seriously. Regular right-wingers are a pretty mischievous bunch, they're fun on occasion, too.
Does Voat seem fun? Not really. It's not like you open Voat to see the goats trolled Youtube and now tranny-Susan has to make a statement titled Why I'm Not An Alien or something. No, you see the same OMG SHE'S A KIKE posts about Youtube's CEO and that's it. Snooze.
You never win if you can't attract people. And I hate to be the one breaking it to the loudmouths here, but what Voat's selling at the moment, nobody's buying.
Add a completely incompetent admin and you have a white South African on your hands: no future, get out.
Nerobot ago
I agree and this linked thread sums it all up. https://voat.co/v/technology/2510197 It's a post about a guy who's pissed off at Widows 10 updating at the worst time. It's a light-hearted troll thread most can relate to. Now check the second top-rated comment. No fun allowed.
Scandinavian ago
Jesus christ, hahahaha. All that comment said was 'nobody takes me to clubs, so you shouldn't go either'. Poor thing.
Cuckbot ago
I remember when you owned the sub and you said the community should run it. That never really happened. @Kevdude said to me in post he now deleted that big changes were coming to this sub and that I should have faith. That should tell you all you need to know that the community doesn't call the shots here. https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/2507209/12532210 The deals are made in the backroom, the powerbase is alts and we are no longer needed here.
Scandinavian ago
It would be wrong for me to comment on the day-to-day workings of PV, I'll give the naysayers that. However, I believe it's ridiculous that PV ended up as a place for insane ramblings about aliens (or whatever). As I said, as long as the system works the way it does, moderation of non-general interest subverses is the only solution to balance things.
I also don't agree that should exclude anyone from v/all with reasonable limitations on how much one community can dominate debate. At the end of the day, we're searching for an ideal solution, but it's pretty clear it doesn't exist.
hojuruku ago
@KevDude or his other kiddy fucking lover pedo mods here are a pro-pedophile shills trolling me saying that picture's of children's genitals aren't child porn. I'm going to hunt down and dox and let natural justice happen to the pro-pedophile pizzagate kiddy raping mods.
Kevdude and his alt's even attacks my father's writing about Australia's most famous gay marriage activist and his sparkles the gay child rape pony facebook page, where gay men openly put up pictures of a young QLD boy and talk about how they raped him. Garry put on his blog it was "harmless child loving fun".
Just look at the kikepedos in action even attacking my dad's writing.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagatemods/2506292/12531256
https://voat.co/v/pizzagatemods/2506292/12531956
For them to say sharing a document from a US prosecutor on "satanic ritual abuse manifesto" in relation to a masonic/OTO pedophile who the court document admitted he confessed to police 5 years earlier for raping children but was not charged due to giving the masonic hand-sign ISN'T RELATED TO PIZZAGATE and is spam to post shows they server a satanic agenda.
then when I pick on @Vindicator doing the same WE LOVE THE OTO CHILD RAPE CULT CENSORSHIP against @BabalonWorking he responds by taking down my thread into the Jewish Disney Man Boy Love Cam Dating Site "OurSpace" and saying it was wrong to mention Christopher Kent Bowersox the gay pedophile cop that took away my first born in the thread - because that triggers him - and you shouldn't be against gay pedophiles or mention they are identify gay just say they are pedophiles that took away your kids.
Clearly we got sick pro-pedophile shills here. You seen my protect voat thread. You seen the kind of pedophile trolling I'm getting. They are opposing me for opposing a child labor child abuse camp in Korea and sperging all over the /v/anontalk threads fasely claiming I"m a pedo.
The only solution now is to dox and kill the pro-pedophile pizzagate mods.
I won't break the rules and do it on this website - but they will be hunted down like any other pedophile.
https://8ch.net/pol/res/11454429.html
https://8ch.net/pol/res/11478443.html
Look at their finest we love sex with children trolling:
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2025812/9992933
Evidence of Garry Burns media contact Lisa Oldfield exposed on my dad's scribd publishing child porn.
Warning children's faces obscured no nude bits in that part of the video not a CP link:
https://postimg.cc/image/919mg23qx/
This is who put Garry Burns on the radio to attack John Sunol on 2UE and claim this married Christian man fucks tranny butt live on air. Truely evil stuff - pedophiles working together.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/255250991/complaint-against-vexatious-litigant
Then there is the sparkles the gay child fuck pony page confirmed in case law to be a pedo operation linked to Garry Burns, but that's a much longer story - see my dad's coverage of it on liked to on my profile page here: https://gab.ai/ozzieslovepedos
And then there is the young boys in Marks Park rape attempt involving Garry. So many pedophile scandals connected to one VIP gay activist.
He's too big to jail. Once you are a gay hero for the sake of gay pride you have the right to fuck children.
If anyone wants the mp3 that used to be here with the boylover and David Oldfield going John Sunol just ask:
http://media.mytalk.com.au/2ue/audio/301112oldfield.mp3
▶Anonymous 04/22/18 (Sun) 08:06:02 b334ac No.11512279>>11512630 >>11512721
Child's genitals alone are not CP, you retarded oaf.
▶Anonymous (You) 04/22/18 (Sun) 11:05:51 08c186 No.11512630
Under the crimes act they are.
▶Anonymous (You) 04/22/18 (Sun) 12:44:06 08c186 No.11512721
You saw that link above you faggot.
What's in it?
http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s91fb.html#child_abuse_material
We clearly have a child fucker like Garrry Burns on the thread or the pizzagate mod pedos.
BabalonWorking ago
Kevdude has major mental issues but let's move on now.
Mickgoestojail ago
I agree with private subs being left alone and I think Puttitout was attempting to define that with his recent changes. System subs, private subs and public subs. For too long it's been selective now anyway and the result is the head mod being brigaded below 0 and the posts being downvoted to the shit. It's mostly politically motivated as well. In case you misseed it I was a mod here for the last year until I left two months ago.
Scandinavian ago
What made you leave? The drama as described in your other comment?
Mickgoestojail ago
Disappointed left and it wasn't the same without him, he kept the drama and in-fighting of the sub as much as he could. He checked out emotionally almost a year ago because he had a sick family member.
Scandinavian ago
Right. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm pretty overwhelmed by how hostile the culture is in general. Shouldn't this place be not-Reddit? It's like Reddit on steroids with one millionth of the users.
Mickgoestojail ago
Take a look at the pizzagate post just made today here. That's what PV has devolved to. People slinging shit at each other and downvoting as they go. Soon the alts will arrive there as well and the votes will be in the -10 range. Much of Voat is like that now. If you're part of the clique you get away with deleting on your private subs. If you are not, you are declared fake like Needlestack was and you were just today, then a mob is formed to downvote you. All it takes is one or two downvotes to kill a small sub as well. It's too late for this sub and maybe for voat to change. On reddit the masses far outweigh the trolls and alts but here that's no longer the case. 30-40 alts is the win button and with an admin that cant keep up it's all over. We need users to speak up and finally draw line in the sand where private subs stand. Right now all it takes is an alt to post stuff here accusing someone, it gets stickied and then the shitshow begins.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
oh how right you were, but in the opposite direction, suddenly everyone not eating OP's bullshit got a blast of downvoats instantly.
OP really needs to work on his shill game.
Mickgoestojail ago
I ever mentioned which direction and it doesn't really matter, it's always the same shit. The sub is drowning in drama. We used to flair the stuff and it worked mostly but now no one is flairing and even the mods are joining in.
Scandinavian ago
I understand about 10% of that post, but it sure seems like Mr. Autist there needs to either share his drugs with the group or make himself a subverse to blame the aliens from. I get where he's coming from, though - I had no idea we had so many dogs anally fisting children. I say knock it off, poodles! Dem kids aren't yours to fist!
Mickgoestojail ago
After you and @Needlestack left and @she deleted her account this sub came under fire heavily. We had adopted the flair trolls instead of deleting method. We had people trolling the sub like pissed off @she supporters, old SDBH and r/topmindsofreddit, people who blamed us for the brigades, Fph mods pissed off we called them white knights, old SBBH, and askvoat mods. We copped dowvotees for a while. Then the upvoted shitposts started but we held those off mostly barely with downvotes.
Fast forward a bit and the pepe posts came with one SBBH user vowing to post 100 pepes to try to force us to delete. To do that they had to create alts to get around the restrictions of 3 a hour and 10 a day to a sub. So they did and discovered they had 10 votes to give to their old posts each time. So we had posts looking like 26 up/25 down for pages and pages. It took us a few days but eventually we cleared everyone of those pepe posts off of hot. A week or so later one of our regulars came to me and said that he knew only 5 or 6 other people had downvoted those threads. I asked how he would he know that and he said because he'd voted 18 times on each of the threads. He even showed me a couple of his alts.
Fast forward a bit more and we'd started holding up some of the system sub mods to the candle for deletions. SBBH was heavily involved again against us but this time the stakes were higher. 30-40 votes were now common. He said he'd had some discussions with a couple of other PV regulars and they'd agreed to pick up the slack and help him. So we had a proxy war one shitposting sub and a rivalry with yet another shitposting sub that all had alts behind the scenes.
Fast forward much later again and @Disappointed comes to me and says the fighting is hurting voat and it needs to stop. He wasn't taking no for answer really, so it just stopped soon after that. What that did was create a situation where a lot of people with a lots of alts suddenly had no real enemy. We had amalek, registereduser and thepower shitposting to the sub but they got squashed easily by the downvotes. So what did that alt machine do then? Those groups still downvoted people but by this time those alts were years old and held a fair bit of respect around voat. Their age counted for a lot so they began making suggestions, teaming up to create a consensus, piling on subs like identititarian and the pedes.
Whats my point? It is too engrained in the culture here for it to stop now, outside of the admins really steppingi to do a thourough time-consumig audit of what accounts vote where and who votes with them? Not happening.
I don't think it will stop. Some just don't play by the rules.
HomerSimpson ago
LOL. Oh man. @kevdude lol. This is your base.
MadWorld ago
I think this comment should be preserved(don't delete it!) for other goats to see! The vote manipulation is quite intense around here. The past 3 days on the preview site was very peaceful without all that shit drama!
Edit: archive
Scandinavian ago
Thanks for the rundown man. I have lurked and I don't think there's a week I haven't browsed Voat since 2015. Just didn't feel like participating in the drama. I lost interest in PV after the two others decided even obvious spammers should be allowed.
I think it's the trap of trying to take the high road. That only works if you have an inherently fair system and, as you point out, the playing field is screwed up.
Conveniently for the powers that be this may explain why Voat failed to have any influence whatsoever.
Vic_V ago
just read through all your posts and replies in this submission. You are not sincere
Crensch ago
He's really not sincere, is he? Laughably dismissive to anyone taking issue with his arguments, but seems just fine for people simply posting their own.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
Sometime last night he hopped on his alt's and started downvoting people in this thread. Says all you need to know about him.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
the voat manipulation ITT is transparent as fuck, OP thinks all the upvoated comments suddenly turning into the negatives and all the obvious bullshit that got downvoated magically getting boosted out of nowhere is organic? honestly this whole thread stinks of RPV.
Scandinavian ago
I agree with you on a lot of this. Back when PV started, we eventually pushed for system subverses to get rid of the issue altogether on the general interest verses. This is just to say I don't see the problems at the top and with the site as separate from what PV could work for.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
Nazi's and SJW's two sides of the same coin, give me a fucking break.
National Socialists work to free society from Jewish degeneracy and push humanity forward. SJW want to virtue signal while being slaves to debt. "But they all want to control people", how over simplistic can someone get?
What's next, am I going to have to debunk the Nazi = Gun Control lie for the 15th time this week?
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Don't bother arguing with an enlightened 500 IQ Rick and Morty watching centerist, they'll just call you a "right wing Essjaydubbyah" and dismiss.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
Notice he went to his Alts to start downvoting everyone. Every time.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
It's so obvious when suddenly the guy spouting jew propaganda get's a influx of upvoats and everyone disagreeing gets the exact same number of downvoats over 3-5 minutes.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
It's obvious "Scandinavian" didn't just disappear from voat, he has a bunch of other aliases that he has been posting under the past year. He probably used one of his older accounts because he wanted to have more clout in what he was saying.
Like I've said in other threads, they aren't particularly intelligent creatures, they simply operate without ethics. I don't carry a bunch of alt's to upvoat myself and downvoat others, but for them it's standard operating procedure. My recommendation to other voaters is not to get mad when they do their "typical tricks", but to observe the patterns because they act the same way in the real world.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
The reason I don't mind replying to every silly misguided "centralist" is that there are far more lurkers than people who post. We can potentially enlighten a few hundred people everytime calmly dissec the centralists points.
The guy I'm replying to is European, Denmark it seems. All the replies are predictable, I'm sure we'll be hearing about the horseshoe theory soon enough, but that isn't important. This guy, @scandinavian, is not a frequent poster. Most likely he sees this "evil nazi" stuff and his conditioning kicks in, and he runs away. He probably hates muslims and thinks he's "red pilled", yet he can't connect the migrant crisis with the international clique.
He will feel the need to own us with his superior intellect. But as he replies more he will start making new connections he didn't make before. Once that happens, he's with us forever.
Scandinavian ago
And my point is: you should have a space to do that in. But there should be room for more than just nazis. That's why I made ProtectVoat back in 2015. I don't see Voat as of 2018 being an exchange of ideas at all.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Sorry you don't get to control free speech, because you don't want people talking about things.
There is a reason why "Nazi" ideas always dominate in every space where they aren't artificially suppressed by moderator censorship, because good ideas naturally rise to the top. Leftist and Centrist/radical individual ideas always fail to do this because they are divorced from reality, which is why you need moderators to delete opposing opinions for "hate speech", and/or use alts to artificially downvoat opposing ideas (don't even try to pretend that the voats in this thread are organic, the thread was massivly against you until suddenly everyone disagreeing with you got a surge of downvoats all at once).
Scandinavian ago
Where the hell is everyone, then? I mean you people still know each others' user names because there's like 100 active users left.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
What part of the Nazi's do you actually disagree with: Do you deny the Jewish control of our media? Do you deny that the west is being subverted by Jewish extremists? If you disagree with those statements, could you actually discredit those claims without resorting to hand waving?
Look you aren't a very active poster. If you were concerned with an exchange of ideas you aren't much contributing. If what you want is the status quo, you have unlimited options. If you want to actually discuss what's really going on we have voat, 8ch and a few other places, and that's it.
Scandinavian ago
I agree, a disproportionally large number of people who are Jews have high positions in big media outlets. My answer is: make competitors and wipe out the failing MSM outlets. That takes manpower and people. Your argument has an implicit 'something should help us make NBC non-Jewish' appeal in it. I say: let's make something better instead.
I honestly don't think much about that. What I do think about is what I see in my daily life: muslims fucking over Europe. That's a problem that could be solved by sending them back to the shitholes they came from.
Nope, see Crensch' replies in this thread to see why that is. I was very, very active on Voat in 2015. Then @NeedleStack and I left PV because of Crensch and kevdude, whom he unfortunately convinced to take his side at the time.
I don't really think the shouting down of people who aren't Nazis is super productive. I'm called far right, but I'm apparently not far right enough to not be ad hominem'ed in here. I hope you guys realize you're making your base very small this way.
NeedleStack ago
Thanks for the ping. I've skimmed through the conversations here. To me, you aren't going to get anywhere here on this sub with this approach (as nice as the attempt is). It's a shame the level of devolved 'discourse' that is the norm for "Protect" voat now.
I find it fucking hilarious that Crensch is questioning your activity and presence on voat. It's as if he doesn't (conveniently) remember you used to be the OWNER of this sub and that YOU invited HIM to be a mod here in the first place. Absolutely astounding. But not surprising really lol!
It was a different time for voat when we were mods here. It was an exciting, refreshing time. Those days are dead, buried, and decayed I'm sorry to say. Hugs to you.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
"how dare @Crensch not agree with you, you invited him to the sub so he owes you a debt of loyalty"
Fuck off with this Reddit shit, nobody is forced to ignore bullshit because of who says it, old Scandy here is not excused from being called out on his blatant bullshit based on starpower, and neither are you.
Crensch ago
God damn, -3 in 3.4 hours when responding to a comment 1.3 days old.
And they think anyone else will look at that and dismiss it as organic?
Crensch ago
You say that as if it's not plausible to think the username switched hands given its absence, and sudden reappearance with voat-changing ideas, and false-equivalence of SJWs and "Nazis".
I find it hilarious that neither of you thought someone might point that out, and even more hilarious that you seem to think it unworthy of consideration.
Scandinavian ago
Well, it got all you Nazis riled up enough to participate. Now let's see when you guys calm down enough to actually have the discussion about Voat.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
You didn't get anyone riled up. You're just trying to play the super smart centralist. Every one tries to play the super smart centralist until they realize it's a losing game.
Scandinavian ago
You sure seem riled up.
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
You are from Denmark right, so does it bother you that you will soon be a foreigner in your own country? Do you ever wonder who might be organizing these invaders?
Or are you so above all of this that you don't get "riled up"?
Scandinavian ago
Ha, it seems like you're assuming a lot of my positions. My biggest problems with the Nazis is their insistence of ignoring the Muslim invasion of Europe. "But muh joos".
I don't have an opinion on whether there's a big Jewish conspiracy, but my position is why bother? I don't have to ask Jews permission to say I want a fucking border wall to Germany, repatriations of any non-Western immigrant and an amendment to our Constitution saying Denmark is for Danes.
Those are my political beliefs. Trust me there's a more direct road to winning that battle than bitching about Jews online. It doesn't solve anything and it doesn't create political clout to put a complete end to the islamification of Europe and, soon, America. That is a much bigger issue.
(And before you start, I have discussed the JQ a million times before and I've seen your material. I still fail to see how that solves any of the demographic problems facing the West).
FormerBaltimoreRes ago
There isn't a single national socialist who ignores the muslim invasion of Europe. Take that straw man and put it in a field somewhere else. I see that the Jewish question really bothers you, and I completely understand. Every part of your body wants to think that blaming the jews is just some excuse, that it's a distraction from actually addressing the issues facing Europe. Blaming the Jews is beneath you right?
But who is controlling your media, who is controlling your text books? Who is controlling your banks? Who was at the center of WWI and WWII? You claim you don't have to ask a Jews permission? OK, go say in public that any part of the supposed holocaust numbers are inaccurate, what will happen to you?
If I told you that the beggars in the streets of Paris were organized Gypsies you probably would look at the evidence and realize I was right. But when I tell you the nation wreckers are organized Jews your sensibilities are offended, you have been told from birth that blaming the jews is the realm of the ignorant. So no matter how many refugee centers they organize, no matter how many hedge funds manipulate your economies, no matter what you can't be one of those dumb nazis.
Notice, you never actually disagree with anything I say. You divert sure, hand wave maybe, but never actually take what I'm saying and refute it. Because you know the facts as well as I do, the only difficulty is getting you to acknowledge a very uncomfortable truth. I know it takes time, work at your own pace.
Scandinavian ago
That's not how I see that at all. My biggest problem is: I want to see Israel's border wall and go 'we should have one, too'. I see Jews are good at helping each other get good jobs. I think 'we should do that, too'. I see a people that spends its time building a strong military and they're using the intel and technology from that military to build a strong tech sector. I think 'why don't we do the same'.
What irks me is the envy of those that hate the Jews for what they've achieved. We're so many more Europeans (and European-Americans) - imagine what we could achieve if we started emulating success instead of complaining about it. That's how I think about it.
jesus_is_lord ago
https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/2496173
Crensch ago
Not currently interested in the rest of your post, but this really stood out.
Explain how this isn't a false-equivalence, and then explain how "Nazis" want to control others' lives.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Because reasons.
Crensch ago
Yep.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
muh horseshoe
Cannonfodder ago
I kinda see it as holding any kind of ideology is essentially mind-control by yourself. Anyone can be persuaded to one idealogy or another which can be reinforced by the power of social conformity. It is easier on an individual’s mind and for the individual to trust pre-formed ideologies especially those established in a society than to have the fortitude to recognize the mental constructs in place and their mind-controlling ability and either accept or reject them and form their own internal concepts of the world.
Crensch ago
http://archive.is/vOBqV
This just gets better and better. A response to the ADDED portion (31 minutes later).
"voat.co"
Anyone else see something odd with referring to Voat as "voat.co"? Looks scripted to me. Like this, only with JIDF or ADL as the cancerous authors of the script.
MadWorld ago
Good catch! Looks like (((somebody))) forgot to define extra variable lols!
Crensch ago
Oh, hey! How about you put a nice little space there where you added more text in an edit, instead of stacking it on top and making it appear that I didn't address each of your points?
http://archive.is/wWyQU Here's a reminder of where you left off.
Cannonfodder ago
My fault I’m pretty stoned and posted before I finished my thought. All I’m saying is I can see where OP can consider SJW’s and Nazis are on the same coin because people are lemmings and will conform to an ideology easily and promote it without understanding it to conform others. This is an opinion. I have been on voat for a long time but I don’t post often here because I didn’t realize that was a requirement but I understand why that may seem suspicious.
Crensch ago
... So all ideologies are the same because lemmings?
31 minute lag time is a lot. May want to call your doctor about that one.
It's not a requirement. I'm just not into believing in coincidences when things start looking funny.
You could be completely innocent here, and I could be wrong, but having such a similar posting frequency to OP, and him responding "we" really just seals the deal for me.
Cannonfodder ago
They can be the same because they provide a structure for a lemming to cling to. My brain is kinda shot from working all weekend, so your skepticism is appropriate because I’m just hashing out thoughts. I probably should not have jumped into such a topic but again I’m pretty baked. Have a good rest of your weekend
Crensch ago
I posit the argument not worth bringing up as a way to compare the two if literally any ideology has the same flaw/similarity.
You too. Probably the best response you could give that would give me pause in thinking you're the same person.
Have a good rest of your weekend, either way.
Crensch ago
If you take that position, any internal framework is mind-control. What a stupid idea - process everything at every resolution every time, instead of taking mental shortcuts that work enough to make acceptable conclusions? Nobody has the time or mental resources for that.
1) prove it
2) so?
That's a lot of words to basically say that most people are lemmings. Did you have a point here? How does this explain SJWs and "Nazis" being equivalent, or Nazis wanting to control others' lives?
Since your comment was so suspiciously out of place, I took a quick look:
1st page of submissons: 1.7 years ago. 1st page of comments: 11 months ago. Looks a LOT like what I found about OP.
Scandinavian ago
Did you ever stop to think maybe the reason we stopped being active on Voat was because of people like you?
It's kind of hilarious. Your go-to is SJW'ing. Derailing discussion, ad hominem attacks.
Crensch ago
"We".
http://archive.is/wWyQU
Literally just outed you as both not belonging, and part of a group (or sock-puppet manufacturing-consensus) whose apparent intentions are to change this place with the authority of "This username made this subverse, so I don't have to support my positions, listen to me!".
Scandinavian ago
Haha, oh man.
Crensch, what are you doing on PV? You don't support any of the things PV was made to do: secure free discussion. Is it just a game of securing the right to yell kikeniggerfaggot for giggles?
Crensch ago
What aren't you free to discuss?
Does pointing out that you're likely a fraud somehow affect your ability to discuss things?
Scandinavian ago
I guess it's easier for you to accuse me of being a fraud than looking at yourself in the mirror.
The premise of the OP, which you tried being highschool cool about being 'not interested in', was exactly this premise: Voat isn't free as long as shills and brigaders roam free anyway.
Why are you so afraid to discuss this premise?
Crensch ago
Let me know when you want to explain "we", why you don't have to defend your position on SJW = "Nazis", your submission/comment activity being low and being similar to Cannonfodder, you expecting us not to notice any of the above, and what you aren't free to discuss.
Scandinavian ago
You let me know when you're ready for a real conversation.
Crensch ago
"Real conversation".
Scandinavian ago
Maybe you explain why it is?
Crensch ago
You're the one claiming the two are the same, yet give no reasoning. You also claim "Nazis" want to control others' lives.
Support your claims before asking someone else to dismiss them.
Scandinavian ago
To most it'll be fairly obvious, to others it might start a thought process they hadn't had before.
To you, it was a big insult that made you very offended, apparently. You go figure it out yourself.
Crensch ago
"My claims are self-evident, and don't need support." Got it.
"You're obviously too emotional here, so I don't have any reason to explain my words to you."
I remembered you being better than this.
Scandinavian ago
I supported it. I think SJWs and Nazis are two sides of the same coin who want to control other people's lives. You don't, that's fine.
Funny, I remember you being exactly as insufferable as this.
Crensch ago
No, you didn't.
That's not supporting your claim/beliefs, it's stating them. Do you know the difference between supporting and claiming?
Mind explaining why a user wanting to change Voat has submissions 2.2 years old on the first page of his submission list? 3 months old on the first page of your comments list, and 11 months old on the second page of your comments list.
You've contributed less to this website than many week-old usernames in the past 11 months. Why should anyone take you seriously here?
Scandinavian ago
They're free to or not to. However, the answer is exactly what authoritarians don't understand. They should read my words and see if they - on their own - give merit to my ideas.
If you only judge an argument on where it's coming from, you'll never be smarter. You're on a subverse I created, asking for my legitimacy? Bitch, please.
Crensch ago
You're like a week-old username asking people to read your wall of derp.
It's a pretty good filter for not wasting your time, checking account age/activity.
I'm pretty sure the real @Scandinavian would have thought that others might think his account bought. That you don't even mention it or suggest the idea suggests you think you can hide such a thing here. I don't believe any goat would ever think they could hide suspicious activity, or lack thereof.
Scandinavian ago
You do realize you're doing exactly what the SJWs do: judging an argument based on who's giving it, rather than the argument itself. Thanks for proving my point.
In reality, we all know you're just afraid other people will come to take your internet power away. Don't worry, Crensch. You'll make yourself irrelevant.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
"oh no someone pointed out the critical flaws with my reasoning, better call them an SJW that'll show them"
Nice try.
Crensch ago
You do realize I gave you the opportunity to support your position, and instead you claimed it self-evident, like an SJW, right? You do realize that doing so prompted me to check your recent posting, right?
kek.
What power? The power to ask you to defend your position, then the power to investigate when you act like you don't have to, but also act like you belong here?
Sounds familiar, but not from @Scandinavian.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Notice how the voats in this thread completely reversed direction after the alts rolled in to voat manipulate this garbage "le horseshoe theory" propaganda up?
Crensch ago
Yeeep. Been noticing that kind of thing a lot lately.