Hi guys!
I was having a discussion with resident shill @kevdude in PMs about free speech on Voat and thought it was worth asking all of you to join. So here goes!
It's 2015: SJW time
Some of you might remember when Voat was in alpha, back in 2015. The SJWs moved in as Ellen Gong Phat Pao was doing the dirty work on Reddit and people were migrating over here. As you know, SJWs always follow to censor the free exchange of ideas. A little cunt in particular by the name of 'she' was quickly raking in mod positions. AskVoat - the most active verse at the time - was being censored left and right.
SJWs are like parasites: if you have something valuable, they'll try to suck the blood out of it
At the time, the culture here was still mirroring Reddit. At the same time, Voat was set to be the next big thing. We made PV to run the SJWs out of town by making sure they wouldn't have a quiet moment until free speech was guaranteed here. We won a lot of short-term battles then, and the likes of 'she' are nowhere to be found as verse owners.
I stopped believing in higher ideals. I think you have to fight fire with fire napalm
What ultimately made me leave PV was a strong disagreement between myself and another moderator on one side and @kevdude and @crensch on the other. I've later understood I'd run into the same problem over and over again:
I don't believe in free speech unless the playing field is level. I now believe you have to fight the SJWs (and other parasites who want to control other people's lives) by beating them with their own weapons first. Then, when everyone sees the value of free exchange of ideas, you can have that.
Voat is not a level playing field. And it's losing, big time
The current rules of the site (still) allow for shills and brigaders to push agendas into common spaces. Meanwhile, it seems what was ultimately a free speech place made itself irrelevant by allowing drama to take over where the SJWs left off. Voat is much less relevant today than it was in 2015.
If ProtectVoat is really here to protect Voat, we should set a new direction
We started this discussion before the recent blackout. It highlighted its necessity, though. If there is to be a Voat that does something other than provide a place to yell kikeniggerfaggot in (with no clout beyond our own reach whatsoever), I think it's time for major change. As of 2018, I would personally think a place like PV should support and fight for something else. Because the game is rigged anyway.
- I don't believe whatever drama group (including this one) should set the rules for niche subverses.
- I believe verse owners should have the right to moderate as they see fit, as long as there's at least five-ten non-moderated general interest verses.
- I believe Protect Voat should actively fight to have a full-time admin overseeing that the site isn't manipulated.
- I believe Nazis and SJWs are two sides of the same coin (people who want to control others' lives) and should be treated alike
- I think Voat could do so much more to advance universal ideas of freedom - at all levels from universities to global institutions - if verses were allowed to run with frameworks set by verse owners.
view the rest of the comments →
Crensch ago
Not currently interested in the rest of your post, but this really stood out.
Explain how this isn't a false-equivalence, and then explain how "Nazis" want to control others' lives.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Because reasons.
Crensch ago
Yep.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
muh horseshoe
Cannonfodder ago
I kinda see it as holding any kind of ideology is essentially mind-control by yourself. Anyone can be persuaded to one idealogy or another which can be reinforced by the power of social conformity. It is easier on an individual’s mind and for the individual to trust pre-formed ideologies especially those established in a society than to have the fortitude to recognize the mental constructs in place and their mind-controlling ability and either accept or reject them and form their own internal concepts of the world.
Crensch ago
http://archive.is/vOBqV
This just gets better and better. A response to the ADDED portion (31 minutes later).
"voat.co"
Anyone else see something odd with referring to Voat as "voat.co"? Looks scripted to me. Like this, only with JIDF or ADL as the cancerous authors of the script.
MadWorld ago
Good catch! Looks like (((somebody))) forgot to define extra variable lols!
Crensch ago
Oh, hey! How about you put a nice little space there where you added more text in an edit, instead of stacking it on top and making it appear that I didn't address each of your points?
http://archive.is/wWyQU Here's a reminder of where you left off.
Cannonfodder ago
My fault I’m pretty stoned and posted before I finished my thought. All I’m saying is I can see where OP can consider SJW’s and Nazis are on the same coin because people are lemmings and will conform to an ideology easily and promote it without understanding it to conform others. This is an opinion. I have been on voat for a long time but I don’t post often here because I didn’t realize that was a requirement but I understand why that may seem suspicious.
Crensch ago
... So all ideologies are the same because lemmings?
31 minute lag time is a lot. May want to call your doctor about that one.
It's not a requirement. I'm just not into believing in coincidences when things start looking funny.
You could be completely innocent here, and I could be wrong, but having such a similar posting frequency to OP, and him responding "we" really just seals the deal for me.
Cannonfodder ago
They can be the same because they provide a structure for a lemming to cling to. My brain is kinda shot from working all weekend, so your skepticism is appropriate because I’m just hashing out thoughts. I probably should not have jumped into such a topic but again I’m pretty baked. Have a good rest of your weekend
Crensch ago
I posit the argument not worth bringing up as a way to compare the two if literally any ideology has the same flaw/similarity.
You too. Probably the best response you could give that would give me pause in thinking you're the same person.
Have a good rest of your weekend, either way.
Crensch ago
If you take that position, any internal framework is mind-control. What a stupid idea - process everything at every resolution every time, instead of taking mental shortcuts that work enough to make acceptable conclusions? Nobody has the time or mental resources for that.
1) prove it
2) so?
That's a lot of words to basically say that most people are lemmings. Did you have a point here? How does this explain SJWs and "Nazis" being equivalent, or Nazis wanting to control others' lives?
Since your comment was so suspiciously out of place, I took a quick look:
1st page of submissons: 1.7 years ago. 1st page of comments: 11 months ago. Looks a LOT like what I found about OP.
Scandinavian ago
Did you ever stop to think maybe the reason we stopped being active on Voat was because of people like you?
It's kind of hilarious. Your go-to is SJW'ing. Derailing discussion, ad hominem attacks.
Crensch ago
"We".
http://archive.is/wWyQU
Literally just outed you as both not belonging, and part of a group (or sock-puppet manufacturing-consensus) whose apparent intentions are to change this place with the authority of "This username made this subverse, so I don't have to support my positions, listen to me!".
Scandinavian ago
Haha, oh man.
Crensch, what are you doing on PV? You don't support any of the things PV was made to do: secure free discussion. Is it just a game of securing the right to yell kikeniggerfaggot for giggles?
Crensch ago
What aren't you free to discuss?
Does pointing out that you're likely a fraud somehow affect your ability to discuss things?
Scandinavian ago
I guess it's easier for you to accuse me of being a fraud than looking at yourself in the mirror.
The premise of the OP, which you tried being highschool cool about being 'not interested in', was exactly this premise: Voat isn't free as long as shills and brigaders roam free anyway.
Why are you so afraid to discuss this premise?
Crensch ago
Let me know when you want to explain "we", why you don't have to defend your position on SJW = "Nazis", your submission/comment activity being low and being similar to Cannonfodder, you expecting us not to notice any of the above, and what you aren't free to discuss.
Scandinavian ago
You let me know when you're ready for a real conversation.
Crensch ago
"Real conversation".
Scandinavian ago
Maybe you explain why it is?
Crensch ago
You're the one claiming the two are the same, yet give no reasoning. You also claim "Nazis" want to control others' lives.
Support your claims before asking someone else to dismiss them.
Scandinavian ago
To most it'll be fairly obvious, to others it might start a thought process they hadn't had before.
To you, it was a big insult that made you very offended, apparently. You go figure it out yourself.
Crensch ago
"My claims are self-evident, and don't need support." Got it.
"You're obviously too emotional here, so I don't have any reason to explain my words to you."
I remembered you being better than this.
Scandinavian ago
I supported it. I think SJWs and Nazis are two sides of the same coin who want to control other people's lives. You don't, that's fine.
Funny, I remember you being exactly as insufferable as this.
Crensch ago
No, you didn't.
That's not supporting your claim/beliefs, it's stating them. Do you know the difference between supporting and claiming?
Mind explaining why a user wanting to change Voat has submissions 2.2 years old on the first page of his submission list? 3 months old on the first page of your comments list, and 11 months old on the second page of your comments list.
You've contributed less to this website than many week-old usernames in the past 11 months. Why should anyone take you seriously here?
Scandinavian ago
They're free to or not to. However, the answer is exactly what authoritarians don't understand. They should read my words and see if they - on their own - give merit to my ideas.
If you only judge an argument on where it's coming from, you'll never be smarter. You're on a subverse I created, asking for my legitimacy? Bitch, please.
Crensch ago
You're like a week-old username asking people to read your wall of derp.
It's a pretty good filter for not wasting your time, checking account age/activity.
I'm pretty sure the real @Scandinavian would have thought that others might think his account bought. That you don't even mention it or suggest the idea suggests you think you can hide such a thing here. I don't believe any goat would ever think they could hide suspicious activity, or lack thereof.
Scandinavian ago
You do realize you're doing exactly what the SJWs do: judging an argument based on who's giving it, rather than the argument itself. Thanks for proving my point.
In reality, we all know you're just afraid other people will come to take your internet power away. Don't worry, Crensch. You'll make yourself irrelevant.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
"oh no someone pointed out the critical flaws with my reasoning, better call them an SJW that'll show them"
Nice try.
Crensch ago
You do realize I gave you the opportunity to support your position, and instead you claimed it self-evident, like an SJW, right? You do realize that doing so prompted me to check your recent posting, right?
kek.
What power? The power to ask you to defend your position, then the power to investigate when you act like you don't have to, but also act like you belong here?
Sounds familiar, but not from @Scandinavian.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Notice how the voats in this thread completely reversed direction after the alts rolled in to voat manipulate this garbage "le horseshoe theory" propaganda up?
Crensch ago
Yeeep. Been noticing that kind of thing a lot lately.