Hi guys!
I was having a discussion with resident shill @kevdude in PMs about free speech on Voat and thought it was worth asking all of you to join. So here goes!
It's 2015: SJW time
Some of you might remember when Voat was in alpha, back in 2015. The SJWs moved in as Ellen Gong Phat Pao was doing the dirty work on Reddit and people were migrating over here. As you know, SJWs always follow to censor the free exchange of ideas. A little cunt in particular by the name of 'she' was quickly raking in mod positions. AskVoat - the most active verse at the time - was being censored left and right.
SJWs are like parasites: if you have something valuable, they'll try to suck the blood out of it
At the time, the culture here was still mirroring Reddit. At the same time, Voat was set to be the next big thing. We made PV to run the SJWs out of town by making sure they wouldn't have a quiet moment until free speech was guaranteed here. We won a lot of short-term battles then, and the likes of 'she' are nowhere to be found as verse owners.
I stopped believing in higher ideals. I think you have to fight fire with fire napalm
What ultimately made me leave PV was a strong disagreement between myself and another moderator on one side and @kevdude and @crensch on the other. I've later understood I'd run into the same problem over and over again:
I don't believe in free speech unless the playing field is level. I now believe you have to fight the SJWs (and other parasites who want to control other people's lives) by beating them with their own weapons first. Then, when everyone sees the value of free exchange of ideas, you can have that.
Voat is not a level playing field. And it's losing, big time
The current rules of the site (still) allow for shills and brigaders to push agendas into common spaces. Meanwhile, it seems what was ultimately a free speech place made itself irrelevant by allowing drama to take over where the SJWs left off. Voat is much less relevant today than it was in 2015.
If ProtectVoat is really here to protect Voat, we should set a new direction
We started this discussion before the recent blackout. It highlighted its necessity, though. If there is to be a Voat that does something other than provide a place to yell kikeniggerfaggot in (with no clout beyond our own reach whatsoever), I think it's time for major change. As of 2018, I would personally think a place like PV should support and fight for something else. Because the game is rigged anyway.
- I don't believe whatever drama group (including this one) should set the rules for niche subverses.
- I believe verse owners should have the right to moderate as they see fit, as long as there's at least five-ten non-moderated general interest verses.
- I believe Protect Voat should actively fight to have a full-time admin overseeing that the site isn't manipulated.
- I believe Nazis and SJWs are two sides of the same coin (people who want to control others' lives) and should be treated alike
- I think Voat could do so much more to advance universal ideas of freedom - at all levels from universities to global institutions - if verses were allowed to run with frameworks set by verse owners.
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Scandinavian ago
:D
... and that was before I learned the only thing that'll make you guys stop whining about muh kikes is the general love for speculating who may or may not be a shill. ;)
Disappointed ago
Under what conditions would you take back the sub? You have some ideas here in this thread but have also said at this point you wouldn't mod the sub. Essentially a lot of our old core users have left and what you have here in this thread is the amount of people who would care on way or another. The admin now seems to be back and ready to get in the saddle.
Scandinavian ago
Hi man -
Thanks for the work you did here, first of all.
It's not so much what I would want, it's more what the site management sees the site becoming (or not becoming). I think there's something to build on on Voat, but why would anyone make the effort? Everything that might develop the site is met by a pack of rabid retards. New users yelled down or called shills. That's going to be a big, fat nope for everyone who's ever been outside their home.
Voat had some chances to actually become viable, but god forbid if specific-interest subverses won't accommodate the muhniggerkikes edgelords. I respect if the site and the site's community wants to be that, but I can tell you how it ends up: Loserville.
There's still space in the market for an actual alternative to all the other social sites we have today. One that lets all subcommunities have their say. That's not the case on Voat today, at all.
And my god, the drama in here. I can understand it to some extent on Reddit where power means access to millions of people. Here? It's drama for drama's sake. All the readers have already been pushed away.
Disappointed ago
Have you been following @PuttItOut's latest comments, especially from his last v/voatdev submission? He seems to think something similar is needed. I quit my janitor roles here after seeing a new user downvoted to -36 for asking what was happening. If an angry mob of users can do that, they don't need me to remove spam for them. I'll do it again if the free speech is restored here for non-spam users. That's me saying I'll do work to ensure the spam is kept down so people who are restricted from speaking can do so.
So let's look at the post you made here. Most of the people seem to agree the drama side. No one here likes being called a shill without evidence. Most seem to even agree that special interest subs should be left alone. So we have one problem. None of he current mods of this sub wants to delete off-topic content. So we're back to the reason you left so long ago. In fact this post isn't so different from those you made then. I posted in those. So maybe if you want to lead a charge of change in this sub and potentially on the site, you need a clean slate. That's what were are offering you. I've spoken to @kevdude and he's spoken to @crensch, he tells me. The offer is there. If you don't want ownership of the sub fully, I can stay to be a silent owner who allows you to run things as effective owner. That's another option. Talk it over with others and kevdude still, but those are my options I can put forward to help.
Alternatively, I've come back to keep the sub open for the public even if the others still want to leave and you don't want to take the reigns back. I don't have time to devote to running it full on but I'll keep the doors open for the users to have the sub to use, if need be.
Scandinavian ago
I hadn't seen that, but thanks for the link. He does seem to agree what the site's problems are. And it's completely killing the site, too.
Yup! :)
I hear you, but a couple of problems. First of all, what's the upside? So we get PV back to being a place that fights to secure a future for Voat, but the site itself has to change for that to happen.
The downside is the time spent swatting away the absolute worst of humanity, who have (again) invaded a stage they didn't create. And no, I'm not saying you can't dislike the Jews. I'm saying you look an awful lot like SJWs while doing it. I have exactly zero minutes to help these people.
I mean, look at the response here from some people right in this thread who took over a space not created by themselves. That kind of unearned entitlement is only found in fat feminists otherwise.
I appreciate it, I really do.
So far, so good.
I think it's getting clearer that Voat can either be a site for 20-30 Nazi-SJWs or a site that gives all communities a chance to thrive. And then we're back to my original point: you need to moderate to not be taken over by people with bad intentions. That's not limiting anyone's speech - just start your own subverse, you're allowed on v/all - but it's protecting those who want to talk about something else than muh niggerkikes.
Disappointed ago
Right but at this point you're the one willing to pursue change. Most of us agree with you but we aren't the best ones to do it. We all fought hard to keep the system subs free of bully mods. It took an excessive amount of whining to @atko and @puttitout most of the time as you know or we cornered the mods into leaving themselves after a meltdown. Some think we went too far at times and maybe we did. @Crensch, Kevdude and I can be arseholes. We didn't play by the rules and were overprotective of the PV brand at times. We are stubborn and too proud to delete things. We've left up pictures of @haveyoursafespace's turds and argued if they had too much corn in them(man needs to see a dietician for sure) to be safe for work. We just aren't suited to do the job needed to keep the sub on track like you would need to. We did what the times demanded. We still have areas where each of us can help the site though.
So Puttitout will be implementing this new voting system sometime soon(TM) where users can trigger a vote for system and public subs. Private subs can use it too, but it will be mods using it as a referendum. So it seems like the perfect time. Every idea needs a driver. I think you can be the driver in this new environment. Setup the sub and lead by example. Choose some like minded people as mods and see where things go. I think the site has followed the lead of this sub in the past and maybe will in the future. I'm not sure if your ideas will work but the site is in trouble; the Chief has said we need to change up to survive. He will probably need help doing that from other people. I don't think you will change may minds unless you hav a platform to do it from. PV is that platform.
Also make no mistake this thread is quiet but a lot of people are watching it like hawks.
Scandinavian ago
I hear you, man. I need to think a bit about things, especially if there's a future for Voat at all. I'm not going to battle with the detractors of the site with no higher purpose in sight. Or, for that matter, without a general understanding on the site that things need to change.
I think that's the point. I understand why the people I don't necessarily see eye to eye with resist change. I, too, hate the way certain opinions are censored and de-platformed. That's not what I want. I think the strength of a site's commitment to free speech is exactly to have room for everyone - including those that say things I find utterly retarded.
But we need to all agree the current state of things isn't working and is, probably, killing Voat in order for change to happen. Otherwise it'll just be another drama round for no reason at all.
Disappointed ago
That's fair. A lot will depend our silent admin.