Subverse rules are a feature Voat is implementing to remove subjectivism from moderator actions such as comment and submission deletions as well as user bans. Currently a moderator simply has to provide a “reason” why they are performing such actions, and seeing that often times this reason is made up on the spot, we are not happy with this. Going forward when a moderator performs such actions they will be required to select a rule violation. This requirement will help to establish the validity of the action.
Rules can be created at a subverse level by a moderator and Voat has some basic global rules, both of which are available as a selection on these moderator action screens as well as all report dialogs (comment/submission reports).
Rules will also be used in all domain and user bans going forward.
This feature is now in beta on the preview site and any testing would be greatly appreciated.
What needs testing:
- Subverse Rule creation
- Reporting comment and submissions in a subverse (making sure they show up in the v/sub/about/reports page)
- Moderator user banning and unbanning (all this code has been changed)
- Moderator comment and submission deletions
Test site: https://preview.voat.co/
P.S. The Vote feature is nearly fully implemented on the preview site, meaning you can create them, vote on them, and then manually process them for full lifecycle testing. :)
view the rest of the comments →
12065405? ago
After revisiting the complaints different people have in this thread (with respect to the votes; the rules feature is fine), these are my thoughts.
People lack faith in the ability of your system to resist alt abuse (the requirements, thresholds, and we haven't even begun testing the "user content contribution" requirements, which I think are most interesting).
The most interesting and legitimate complaints, I think, are those that reject the vote feature even assuming it functions perfectly, and with these people I can sympathize somewhat.
The votes are being created to solve the issue of centralized power, but the fact remains that virtually no one asked for this feature, and so the risk is that more people are likely to oppose it than vocally support it.
I would like to see Voat functioning more efficiently and less of a load on you, which I think you want as well, which is why you are doing this.
However I agree fundamentally with the hesitancy yo embrace full democracy. It does have the habit of ultimately limiting freedom. Look at our democratic societies and how they've been gamed to remove individual liberties again and again.
The fact remains that liberty is best defended by principled leaders with great power who are held to their principles by their people. Voat has stayed free because of your principles -- your refusal to censor or control narratives and your willingness to step in when power mods are destroying communities. Your strength and adherence to these principles is why I admire you so much. But it is a lot to place on one person who has other responsibilities; that is why you've been working on this vote system. But by decentralizing power too much we may lose everything we fought to preserve.
The polls aspect of the feature are perfect and can be used to gauge community opinion. The referenda may be too great a risk, even if requirements are set up perfectly so that account age and contribution are taken into account, the possibility remains that anti-freedom decisions will be made -- if not with the current userbase, then perhaps in a year's time.
But the issue of efficiency remains.
You said somewhere else in the thread that the database can handle volunteers now. Perhaps that is the best way to increase efficiency without decentralizing power and risking the destruction of what this platform stands for. Polls can be used in subverses to gauge opinion, helping mods to act in tough situations. Perhaps the referenda can find a place in a niche environment: large, non-@system, generically named subverses. (Consider /v/Chicago, /v/Canada, which are generically named subverses that are non-@system and corrupted with power mods). A fully implemented referendum feature could allow content producers and older accounts to oust those mods without risking fundamentally changing the core of Voat (@system subverses).
Meanwhile, volunteers who are somehow held to account (public action logs) could relieve some of the burden from you to help Voat run more smoothly. People like Cyna, if she were still around, or Owlchemy and NeedleStack; people who have proven to care about combating spam and keeping Voat usable. Subverse requests, spam removal, illegal content and dox content removal; these things could be spread out to active users who are held to account. I would recommend that you alone deal with moderator conflicts in @system subverses, since in this layout referenda would not apply to @system subverses or small subverses, just the niche cases I described, and people take the @system communities very seriously and probably wouldn't trust anyone buy you to handle issues in those communities. But other areas could be managed smoothly by volunteers.
To summarize:
I realize this doesn't eliminate the fundamental and ultimate dependence on you, but unfortunately I don't think any functioning human community, online or offline, can do without a proper hierarchy. It does, however, eliminate the total dependence, increase efficiency, and refrain from jeopardizing this entire platform through the tyranny of the majority.
PuttItOut ago
The people who want Voat to remain the same won't have Voat in the near future if Voat doesn't innovate and distinguish itself. I understand change is scary, but survival is critical. Voat can't exist as a 'reddit clone.'
Voat has remained stagnate from a growth perspective for 2+ years and this won't change if nothing changes. Voat has to be a market leader or it won't last and we don't have much time to act.
The reality is Free Speech isn't important enough in and of itself to be a factor for growth, it's a liability that requires us to be creative.
I would give you reassurances but at this point I will just have to prove it... Again.
freshmeat ago
There have been multiple waves of users come to this site only to be driven off, and PeaceSeeker him/herself said that "your group" isn't interested in growth, but rather keeping a small loyal base of donators.
Just what the flip is going on?
PuttItOut ago
There is no future I can see if Voat remains small. There is no purpose either. Voat has to have steady growth to remain viable else someone should just clone the repo and start a new Voat and then they can have their small site.
Voat's current attitude towards new members only inflicts self-harm, and as an owner of a site that has accepted groups I'd rather not have here, it pisses me off that these former people are less accepting than Voat was towards them. It's bullshit.
voatHatesTheFirst ago
Says the biggest new comer hater of them all, the one that leads the charge to make new people feel unwelcome.
You alone are responsible for untold thousands of new comers showing up, making some contribution, then leaving in a short time never to return. You make it easy to downvoat a new account, or any account for that matter, into a state of unusableness. Censorship.
You have not integrity whatsoever, no principles, no ethics or morality. You are a lying piece of shit. You are incompetent. Your 'success' and popularity here (and only here) are via the many stupids and ill intending bottom of the barrel internet dweebs here.
You should kill your self, the level of deceit you have inflicted here.
BaneGhostiSwear ago
maybe focus on removing censorship.
Grifter42 ago
What you've done to this site is just continue it's steady creep towards being Reddit.
Your cult of personality only serves to manipulate the masses, I suspect, but if you're still in there somewhere, they're playing you for a fool.
You're playing word games to excuse broken rules and botting and brigades, and the abuses of the same people you trust to test your code. Beatle was the same man who spammed chat and yet, when I asked you about why you shut it down, you said,
"chat was dropped when we did the port because the socket libraries were not available. It will be back soon as their port is nearing completion."
Then, I pressed you about it, and you totally changed your tune, saying, "Chat was being raped.". But it was your people raping it. It was Beatle, and the SBBH collective raping it.
What happened to you during those two months you were gone now?
I've heard you're not even the same Putt that used to in charge of the account. I wouldn't be surprised if that were true.
Koalemos_Grottesco ago
Well said, agree 100%
adhdferret ago
The user base is like that because of the numerous times you as well as us deal with the fucks.
Look at /niggers.
Let's say you don't agree with what is said there nor do you like it's message. Well that place has been fucked over 3 times since being here. The original content creators have all but left, and the mod there now is great, but you were about to shut it down.
I am glad you didn't because I support that subverse message and it's members.
Well we are very vocal to newer members because we know what triggers them, and what will make them leave. Free speech is great but you need to accept it and use it. Reddit refugees need that bitter spoon of medicine.
Just the way it is....but I bet that if you made a post and did a sticky asking for tolerance for new members and explain your position people would need the words.
That is how much you mean to us. Think about that for a moment.
The core base of this platform will honor your wishes and we will bring it up when others do it within the thread if people tried to use it against you.
We love you man and you love us.
Grifter42 ago
Jesus, can you stop slobbing on his fucking knob for a second and realize what this is?
Just another step from the Spez of Voat, towards Redditification.
Fuck this cult of personality shit. He ain't Jim Jones, this ain't Jonestown, and I ain't drinking the fucking kool-aid.
Womb_Raider ago
Voat has landed its name on network news stations. It has been referenced by citizen investigators who look into some of the dregs of society and the most baser acts of the elite. Voat is very much a useful tool and what you are suggesting could compromise its effectiveness.
If anything, you should make a second platform, because what you are describing is wholly different in spirit than voat. It's an entirely different ballgame and, frankly, a farcry from what your original vision seems to have been. With every comment and announcement, you cement my worry that you were replaced during your unannounced 2 months of absence.
If the website is not financially stable, why do you not engage in merch drives or encourage donations? Your actions do not appear to mirror your rhetoric.
It pains me to realize you likely throw me in with this group, but I genuinely care about the supposed ideals of this place - the ideals Atko held. I just hope you do also.
coopzy ago
They haven't accepted money, BTC, or done merch in so long. @puttitout where is the money coming from? Why won't you LET US GIVE YOU MONEY?
Setting up a software wallet takes all of 1 minute with Electrum. You're lead dev for a popelar website. If I can do it you can.
Grifter42 ago
Now you're asking the important questions. The truth is that this site's been sold out for a long time.
Womb_Raider ago
Something is shady about all this
WhiteRonin ago
Something is up! For sure.
Womb_Raider ago
I'm going to miss this place, dude. Three years I've spent here.
gabara ago
You've been saying you're leaving soon for a long time now. We're not buying it anymore, T'wilek
Womb_Raider ago
I've never said it before now. And I'm only leaving depending on how the voat voting nonsense goes.
gabara ago
Back in december, you were telling God @heygeorge you wouldn't be back,.
Womb_Raider ago
I did not.
gabara ago
Whatever. You're boring me now. I'm going to go pick on 9-11/freshmeat now. I found some dirt on him in a google cache from reddit. I just have to add a suitable border. Posting it real soon.
Womb_Raider ago
I'm not here to entertain you. I'm here to learn. I'm here to help others learn. You're here to farm salt.
gabara ago
Actually I'm here to learn AND harvest salt. Same as you, dude. Dude I'm not your enemy.
WhiteRonin ago
I hear yah. It’s been fun and I’d hate to see it go libtard.
coopzy ago
Very much so. Every time I've brought this up I've gotten radio silence. I know @teranNotTerran has offer to give a bunch of money but they don't want it
Ialwayssaythis ago
Agreed. I would pay 50 a month FOREVER
BaneGhostiSwear ago
@womb_raider @coopzy @grifter42
it's privately funded.
sincerely,
sanegoat.
oh, and @puttitout isn't justin chastain, it's a group of shills. enjoy!
coopzy ago
I'm starting to think you are just Atko trying to warn us about this. You took your payoff and ran but now are having major guilt.
BaneGhostiSwear ago
i am not. if i was atif colo, i'd have run this site better and never let SJW shills take it over.
Womb_Raider ago
Things he's saying aren't adding up, that much I will agree with. He is claiming we're broke and making no effort to change that. I want to donate $50 right now, but I can't. I feel like Putt isn't being honest with us.
BaneGhostiSwear ago
aye. nigger isn't being straight with the community. it stinks as hard as when he banned 100s of users for upvoting me (to the tune of 12,000 ccp), but didn't ban a single user for downvote brigading me (to the tune of 20,000 ccp)