https://i.imgur.com/Ajkvgit.pngPNG - sent right before a 2nd PM from her with her boobs. I deleted that PM as well. I have a gf and unlike srayzie's husband we both believe in exclusivity and that applies to strangers sending unsolicited nudes.
So your big reveal is that you deleted the pics ES sent to us to try to get her demodded and stop Q posts in v/pizzagate, and she re-sent them to you? The night she was all whacked out over being groomed and humiliated? A child rape survivor who was trained by the age of 10 to come on to men for survival -- you're taking that as her firting with you?
Excuse me while I vomit.
And you think it legit to use what was done to her against her publicly in your campaign against Crensch?
I didn't actually think you were capable of this level of depraved indifference to human beings, Kev. It's foul.
You are voluntarily and publicly exploiting what ES did to her -- a vote manipulating, site rule-breaking predator who should have been banned but whom YOU knowingly allowed to continue prowling Voat, and continue to allow to do so. You protected the predator, and exploited his target for your own political ends.
You really think you're going to come out looking good in this scenario?
I think that message from /u/Crensch to /u/kevdude is 100% the most important PM that has leaked since this whole thing started. Especially so since /u/Crensch all but confirmed its authenticity.
Libido Doninandi. It now seems to me that's what this whole thing has been about. Either we control our passions with reason or our passions control us. I was amazed and confused when/u/Crensch first started acting irrationally. /u/Crensch, of all people? How could it be? Now it is clear. He stopped acting reasonably because his passions took over. He admits as much in the PM:
I'm a bit unsteady atm - I don't usually get overcome by...whatever just from a pretty face and tits but she is a smokeshow. I'm pretty proud of being unflappable when women are concerned - I'd lose the game to this one.
This is Libido Dominandi, Vin. Could it be any clearer? Set aside your support for /u/srayzie and GA and you're opposition to the shitposters for a second and realize what is going on here. I too support GA and want them to manage themselves as they truly desire, but this is not the way
Sorry it took me so long to reply, here. I felt it important to dig up all the sourcing.
This is Libido Dominandi, Vin. Could it be any clearer? Set aside your support for /u/srayzie and GA and you're opposition to the shitposters for a second and realize what is going on here.
With all due respect, Peaceseeker, I think you are wrong, and I know a hell of a lot more about it than you do. In fact, I think you are falling for a narrative that was carefully prepared for you by those who have wanted srayzie (and many others) silenced from the beginning.
I've been a front row witness to this since long before Crensch or Kevdude knew anything about it. Well over a year ago, I noticed a user who had previously been a conspicuous defender of others against trolls and claimed to be a pizzagate survivor, flattering and befriending users and trying to get them to chat with him offsite. Several of them suddenly and inexplicably deleted their accounts. I began to privately warn people whom I saw him grooming.
One of those people was srayzie, who at the time hated the lead mod Millennial_Falcon and did not trust me. We began to chat and she decided I was okay. She told me EsotericShade had something embarrassing on her from when they were friends but wouldn't tell me what. She didn't want to believe he was as dangerous as I thought he was and she felt bad for him because she thought he'd had a terrible childhood and had recently been through a tough breakup and was struggling with alcohol. Months went by.
Seeing these attacks against people, srayzie told me she was worried ES would use the embarrassing material against her and ruin her reputation on Voat, so she was leaving pizzagate to start her own sub. Her plan was to pretend to ES they were still friends and play dumb. She did not want to openly participate in calling him out. I urged her to go public about what had happened, to take her power back. She wasn't comfortable with that, and focused on building up her own sub. At that point, she did not really know Crensch or Kevdude.
I can't recall how much time went by, or what exactly the inciting incident was -- may have been Kev's Hojuruku unbanning and the consequent rampage, or more likely the Jem777 death fiasco (both cases where srayzie defended me from trolls and got pilloried for it), but ES began sending her intimidating DMs that weren't straight up threatening, but were designed to remind her he had the pics. She got very panicked. I again told her to go public, but by that time, her board had several thousand subscribers.
I also suggested she create a co-owner, for her board, so Esoteric would know that he couldn't shut it down with a single point of failure. She then told me that what he had on her was nude selfies she had sent him when he was really down in the dumps, before she realized he was a predator. By that time, she had a lot of old goat friends and had taken down a number of shills publicly. I said: Good lookin' lady who is a shill killer gets seduced and blackmailed by a shill with nudes? Wear it with pride -- you'll be a legend. All the conservative white males on this site will be amazed at your courage to keep going. Go public. Take your power back. She didn't believe it, though.
At that point, I let a few different people know ES was blackmailing users – though no specific names or details -- and we needed to take him down. That was when Crensch moved from being an annoyed, 90% absent O, to realizing he had allowed shills to prosper under his nose. The mods of PG and GA (except for srayzie) started investigating ES in earnest, trying to pin down his alts and document his vote brigading. I also DMed more users I saw him grooming to warn them.
In August, pizzagate investigator Jenny Moore, who had been working with admitted Mossad YouTuber George Webb, turned up dead in a hotel in DC and I was blamed for her death because I had banned her from v/pizzagate months before for breaking submission rules and pushing disinfo. This resulted in several weeks of drama and accusations, calls to dox another user who had allegedly given her death threats on Voat that I had left up (he hadn’t). There was much controversy over the nature of Jem777 (Jenny Moore), and srayzie attempted to clear things up by making two submissions exposing the relationship between Jem777 and an anti-pizzagate bot network connected to Gothamgirl that she calls “Sarah” that @Camulos had originally pointed out here. Crensch also got involved in helping call out some of the BS mod attacks during that time.
As summer wrapped up, after making that post, srayzie began to have troubles with trolls in GA. She had to ban CheeseFaggotsGhost and Oh_Well_ian. Then September arrived, along with the Reddit ban of r/GreatAwakening, and SHTF.
Suddenly NotHereforPizza was lamely trying to dox Crensch as a Reddit mod, and sending srayzie multiple vaguely threatening DMs. Then “BuilderAnon” showed up and began all the gaslighting recruitment DMs to her involving Kev. I pointed out to her at the time that the tactics reminded me exactly of those used by EsotericShade, but she still thought of him as some poor alcoholic guy and didn’t see the resemblance. Like NotHereforPizza, ES also had a history of trying to get Crensch unseated as O of PG and even requested the position for himself.
A week or two later, right after the GA Reddit migration and srayzie’s spurning of NotHereforPizza and BuilderAnon, Crensch, Kev and I all received a DM from a throwaway account about "What your mod has been up to" with a link to nudes. Srayzie confirmed it was the pics she’d sent to ES a year before. She was beside herself. I had told neither Cresnch nor Kev about any of it in advance because srayzie asked me not to. I then told them I’d been expecting it from ES and thought we should go to Putt, since multiple users associated with his grooming had already self-deleted. Kev told me to never mention it again and forget it ever happened.
At that point Crensch helped us put even more pressure on all the alts we thought sounded like ES, until on October 8, @EricKaliberhall caught him getting confused about which account he was logged into. That proof allowed us to unravel his whole operation. He admitted to vote brigading with his sock puppets. Argosciv (still blacklisted by most pizzagaters gaslit by ES) had been helping me investigate behind the scenes, because he had been the #1 target for ES, attacked by multiple accounts using the same narrative. I presented the evidence of this to Crensch, who with much chagrin apologized to argo for treating him like a shill.
Once we’d firmly documented ES’s predatory behavior and vote manipulation, I told Kev I was going to ban the evil bastard, knowing if I didn’t have Kev’s buy-in I would be on my own against the Voat Immune System Gangs of Voat as had happened to pizzagate mods of yore. Crensch was cool with with the ban, since he'd manipulated votes.
But Kev refused to support a firm, public silencing of ES. Instead he tried to get me involved in an elaborate scheme involving deceptive CSS that would change all of the users we suspected of being his alts so that they appeared to be him, while he made accounts to troll him in anon subs until he self-deleted.
I had worked too hard to gain the trust of pizzagate researchers to risk that, though, so Crensch just gave his username a simple warning flair, and then made a brutal sticky to accomplish the same thing.
Unfortunately, the ES Crensching sticky did not really work. Users who had been targeted by ES could not understand why we did not ban him. Several including Cc1914, MigratoryPatterns, Eggs-vs-Bacon and Enigmatic_Continuum deleted their accounts. The months of research invested by me, Eric, think-, and Argo documenting this dangerous user turned out to be for nothing. He still roams pizzagate, GA, and even ProtectVoat, spreading his lies and demoralizing anyone who knows his crimes, the same way seeing Clinton still at large does. It's a travesty.
So no, Peaceseeker, I am not going to dismiss Crensch’s desire to tear down a system that protects predatory extortionists like EsotericShade, abusive child rape advocates like Zyklon_b, and dishonest, manipulative, corrupt power mongers like Kevdude in the laughable name of free speech as “Libido Dominandi”.
Crensch is the only person with any power on this site who has helped me protect pizzagate researchers (even though at times engaging him in a situation is akin to calling in an airstrike on my own foxhole). That began long before he saw srayzie’s pics. It involved him taking ownership of his contributions to that corrupt system and apologizing for bashing several people he shouldn’t have. It involved him realizing that Voat had been turned into an inversion of itself, a place where people exposing elite corruption are destroyed and silenced under the flag of free speech. It involved him choosing to put everything he was on Voat on the line to protect those people. All of that was Logos.
There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends. That is what I see him doing, and his willingness to do it is what has kept me on Voat despite the disgusting conduct, disregard for evidence, intellectual pearl-clutching and abuse of power I've witnessed here these past few weeks.
I’ve got a board full of intrepid sex abuse victims that draws predators and spooks like an all-you-can eat buffet. What happened with srayzie was bound to happen sooner or later. Those who’ve been raped as kids can end up with all kind of challenges: addiction, depression, PTSD, impulse control issues, hypersexualization, tons of health problems…they’re easy pickin’s. Those who survive and fight are also incredibly brave, sensitive to others’ traumas, eager to find answers and galvanized to protect kids. Kev thought it morally acceptable to bring the pics he received from EsotericShade into a conversation with Zyklon_b to help paint srayzie as a slut. He's since doubled down on this narrative, claiming srayzie tried to prey on EsotericShade, when he knows damn well what really happened.
He has exploited srayzie’s weaknesses and her strengths to consolidate his power over Voat under the guise of "protection" instead of protecting those who need free speech the most, those whose stories could actually overthrow the degenerate, corrupt regime that oppresses us all.
The idea that Crensch has abdicated reason because has stood up and thundered about it and wants to create a shark cage inside which GA and PG users can investigate without being eaten seems like an intellectual cop-out from where I’m sitting.
So no, Peaceseeker, I am not going to dismiss Crensch’s desire to tear down a system that protects predatory extortionists like EsotericShade, abusive child rape advocates like Zyklon_b, and dishonest, manipulative, corrupt power mongers like Kevdude in the laughable name of free speech as “Libido Dominandi”.
The idea that Crensch has abdicated reason because has stood up and thundered about it and wants to create a shark cage inside which GA and PG users can investigate without being eaten seems like an intellectual cop-out from where I’m sitting.
"With all due respect", Vindicator, I have had one issue with this whole drama.
ONE
/u/Crensch banning users without rules or explanation. That's it. I view it as irrational, as a rejection of Logos, as unnecessary, and as unjustifiable. I have repeatedly, repeatedly asked Crensch to explain why he does not create rules and cite them. I have repeatedly asked him to explain how doing things the way he is doing is necessary or even rational. Not once has he or anyone else done do. Nothing you have said just now, nothing contributes to addressing this one issue of mine.
Do you know what does explain a refusal to act rationally? Bring irrational. Do you what causes irrationality? Being governed by one's passions instead of one's reason. Do you know what Crensch admitted to in that message to kevdude? Being governed by his passions, or at least the potent possibility of that happening.
Given his refusal to answers my pleas for explanation or defence of his actions on rational grounds, how could I come to any other conclusion than "he's acting irrationally" and why should I ignore his admission to that reality?
I am totally insulted. I have repeatedly made rational arguments, defended my claims and stances, and asked only for the same in return. Instead I get lumped in with those who "can't handle the truth" and have to project or dismiss in order to satisfy preexisting prejudices.
Your story is lovely. I don't deny that Crensch has done good and still thinks he's doing good for those communities. I don't deny that kevdude has immoral tactics -- for him the ends justify the means, just like Crensch. I don't sure with kevdude; I disagree in many ways with how he thinks Voat should be run.
All of you can kindly stop pinging me or replying to me until someone answers THE ONLY COMPLAINT I HAVE HAD SINCE THE BEGINNING. If no one has the dignity to answer my plea, then leave me out of this drama. I am exhausted and insulted on account of it.
Do you know what Crensch admitted to in that message to kevdude? Being governed by his passions, or at least the potent possibility of that happening.
Yes...that message, cherry-picked from a high-intensity incident last September, was said in the heat of the moment many months ago. Shouldn't the irrational behavior have started then?
Vindicator, I have had one issue with this whole drama. ONE
Crensch banning users without rules or explanation. That's it. I view it as irrational, as a rejection of Logos, as unnecessary, and as unjustifiable. I have repeatedly, repeatedly asked Crensch to explain why he does not create rules and cite them. I have repeatedly asked him to explain how doing things the way he is doing is necessary or even rational. Not once has he or anyone else done so. Nothing you have said just now, nothing contributes to addressing this one issue of mine.
Peaceseeker, you've made a valid point, and I have been thinking about it a lot. I will attempt to answer.
I am tired of asking for an answer and getting lumped in with kevdude or PV or those "out to get Crensch" as if I have some agenda to go after him at all costs. Unlike Crensch and kevdude both, I don't believe the ends justify the means; I believe Logos justifies the ends.
First, it was not my intent to insult you or show you any disrespect. I was attempting to give you the knowledge I have of this situation, which both you and @Dismember have asked for. If you scroll up, you will see what from my perspective appeared to be you dismissing everything Crensch is doing by writing it off with the narrative that Kev has prepared -- that it's all just the power mongering of an angry lover. I spent two days writing and sourcing the back history of the situation to show why I think that is not a fair assessment, because I respect the two of you. I think you love Voat, and ought to know what's been going on.
Now let me address your issue:
I have repeatedly asked him to explain how doing things the way he is doing is necessary or even rational.
You just keep recycling the same flawed logic. Because some people abuse speech you now have the right to restrict whoever you feel like. Got it.
Look at you. Attacking PV. Concern trolling the mod standards. Just like the trolls you are so made at used to. None of them are here. Because they trolled you into being their bitch. They can take time off because you're in here doing it for them.
I have nothing to hold myself accountable for. Because I believe in PV.
Crensch postured as Zyklon and Kev, mimicking and mocking their bad behaviors, and then threw down this gauntlet: "I'll do the right thing when you do."
I think that is a legitimate tactic and a logical one when you consider the largely deaf response we've gotten from the Voat Literati. Folks keep saying "Let's do something constructive" and then respectfully engage the same corrupt, hypocritical, dishonest and morally reprehensible player who has presided over this debacle and manipulated everyone from behind the scenes for years.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, all the evidence of Kev's corruption that we have presented has been totally ignored. No one has commented on it in acknowledgement, let alone raised the question of whether Kev should step down from "Protect"Voat.
I don't side with kevdude; I disagree in many ways with how he thinks Voat should be run.
Yes. And thank you for making public statements to that effect. And for resigning from ProtectVoat. It's a start.
@Kevdude needs to be held accountable for his corruption before anyone who's been subject to it is going to believe there is any point in "constructive dialogue". Can't build a house with boards crawling with termites.
Is that not logical, now that you know more of the story?
Crensch is not doing what I would do. But to me, his approach is as brutally logical as Catholic laypeople so fed up with faithless bishops covering up and protecting pedophiles that they are now donating money to private investigators gathering evidence of corruption to present to law enforcement to take down dioceses financially. They are calling in airstrikes on their own positions because they are overrun by the enemy and have no better option. Lest you think that comparison unfair hyperbole, please recall that we are talking about pedophile survivors being run off Voat because a corrupt system allowed it.
I cannot and do not speak for Crensch. However, I imagine he probably wants to expose more dry rot before he feels there's any point in focusing on new construction. But I've known him well and know he has a sense of honor. I've never seen him go back on his word. Were the above promise to be met, I'm sure he would keep his end of it.
Will he do the right thing when they do? I think you are a decent guy but you are right that you can't speak for anybody but yourself. Maybe it as easy as simply being yourself and removing doubt that you are just as bad as the other two.
Crensch is doing what Rush Limbaugh has done for decades: illustrating the absurd with the absurd.
The fact that people can't accept that that is what he is doing and take a good hard look at why he is doing it (which I directly linked above), and instead decide to focus on critique of Crensch, critique of me for trying to shed light on it...it's really disappointing.
I've been fighting disinfo pushers in v/pizzagate for years now. Ideas like "Crensch is cucked and irrational" and "Crensch is the new Reddit Powermod threatening Voat" are disinfo. They're designed to distract from the point of what he is doing: exposing Voat corruption and injustice. The fact no one is willing to accept the validity of that and is grasping around for whatever lurid narrative Kev dreams up next just proves how valuable his Ruby Ridge is.
Crensch has a long history of assholery toward those he suspects of being paid to be here to distract, discourage and cover up truth. He targets those people and "shakes the tree" until the monkeys start screaming and hurling shit and their true nature is revealed. This is no different -- except for the fact his target is Kev and other elite Voaters.
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Yea, I don't really appreciate the theater though.
I've had a long look at this and what I'm seeing is most users sick to death of the drama and infighting between a few power users and some alts made around 30 days ago. A lot of this is about ego and betrayal and I've just about had my fill because besides one or two genuine people like yourself, the others just aren't holding my attention at all. I asked him a few questions that might have convinced me of his intent after wards but at that point he refused to answer. Maybe one day he will but I'm starting to just not care.
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Vindicator ago
So your big reveal is that you deleted the pics ES sent to us to try to get her demodded and stop Q posts in v/pizzagate, and she re-sent them to you? The night she was all whacked out over being groomed and humiliated? A child rape survivor who was trained by the age of 10 to come on to men for survival -- you're taking that as her firting with you?
Excuse me while I vomit.
And you think it legit to use what was done to her against her publicly in your campaign against Crensch?
I didn't actually think you were capable of this level of depraved indifference to human beings, Kev. It's foul.
You are voluntarily and publicly exploiting what ES did to her -- a vote manipulating, site rule-breaking predator who should have been banned but whom YOU knowingly allowed to continue prowling Voat, and continue to allow to do so. You protected the predator, and exploited his target for your own political ends.
You really think you're going to come out looking good in this scenario?
@Peaceseeker @PuttItOut @Dismember @cynabuns: This is the guy "Protecting" Voat.
PeaceSeeker ago
I think that message from /u/Crensch to /u/kevdude is 100% the most important PM that has leaked since this whole thing started. Especially so since /u/Crensch all but confirmed its authenticity.
Libido Doninandi. It now seems to me that's what this whole thing has been about. Either we control our passions with reason or our passions control us. I was amazed and confused when/u/Crensch first started acting irrationally. /u/Crensch, of all people? How could it be? Now it is clear. He stopped acting reasonably because his passions took over. He admits as much in the PM:
This is Libido Dominandi, Vin. Could it be any clearer? Set aside your support for /u/srayzie and GA and you're opposition to the shitposters for a second and realize what is going on here. I too support GA and want them to manage themselves as they truly desire, but this is not the way
Vindicator ago
Sorry it took me so long to reply, here. I felt it important to dig up all the sourcing.
With all due respect, Peaceseeker, I think you are wrong, and I know a hell of a lot more about it than you do. In fact, I think you are falling for a narrative that was carefully prepared for you by those who have wanted srayzie (and many others) silenced from the beginning.
I've been a front row witness to this since long before Crensch or Kevdude knew anything about it. Well over a year ago, I noticed a user who had previously been a conspicuous defender of others against trolls and claimed to be a pizzagate survivor, flattering and befriending users and trying to get them to chat with him offsite. Several of them suddenly and inexplicably deleted their accounts. I began to privately warn people whom I saw him grooming.
One of those people was srayzie, who at the time hated the lead mod Millennial_Falcon and did not trust me. We began to chat and she decided I was okay. She told me EsotericShade had something embarrassing on her from when they were friends but wouldn't tell me what. She didn't want to believe he was as dangerous as I thought he was and she felt bad for him because she thought he'd had a terrible childhood and had recently been through a tough breakup and was struggling with alcohol. Months went by.
EsotericShade began trying to get Millennial_Falcon demodded, setting himself up as the defender of pizzagate users against evil powermods, picking up numerous followers, and blaming Crensch for Falcon's heavy-handed administration of the ruleset re-created by Kev despite the original board owner and community having already established one. At the time this was happening, I was in head-down, one-foot-in-front-of-the-other mode, not sure if any of these individuals were legit or if they were all trying to kill v/pizzagate. All of the original pizzagate researchers and mods had been convinced they were all compromised.
Q began leaking about pizzagate and around April 2018 ES’s demeanor changed and he began actively persecuting users who tried to discuss the topic and me for defending their right to make submissions about it. One of those people was @argosciv, whom ES began to target using smears and downvote brigading by his admitted sock puppet accounts rarepeeks, dragonkiller and rgusraper, shortly after Argo began researching Amalek. So effective was this multi-account astroturfing that Argo was effectively silenced, partly through a pretty hardcore Crensching.
Seeing these attacks against people, srayzie told me she was worried ES would use the embarrassing material against her and ruin her reputation on Voat, so she was leaving pizzagate to start her own sub. Her plan was to pretend to ES they were still friends and play dumb. She did not want to openly participate in calling him out. I urged her to go public about what had happened, to take her power back. She wasn't comfortable with that, and focused on building up her own sub. At that point, she did not really know Crensch or Kevdude.
Also in April, Crensch became annoyed with the constant false-alarm pings claiming pizzagate mods were not doing their jobs, and made his first post documenting ES attacking the mod team.
I can't recall how much time went by, or what exactly the inciting incident was -- may have been Kev's Hojuruku unbanning and the consequent rampage, or more likely the Jem777 death fiasco (both cases where srayzie defended me from trolls and got pilloried for it), but ES began sending her intimidating DMs that weren't straight up threatening, but were designed to remind her he had the pics. She got very panicked. I again told her to go public, but by that time, her board had several thousand subscribers.
I also suggested she create a co-owner, for her board, so Esoteric would know that he couldn't shut it down with a single point of failure. She then told me that what he had on her was nude selfies she had sent him when he was really down in the dumps, before she realized he was a predator. By that time, she had a lot of old goat friends and had taken down a number of shills publicly. I said: Good lookin' lady who is a shill killer gets seduced and blackmailed by a shill with nudes? Wear it with pride -- you'll be a legend. All the conservative white males on this site will be amazed at your courage to keep going. Go public. Take your power back. She didn't believe it, though.
At that point, I let a few different people know ES was blackmailing users – though no specific names or details -- and we needed to take him down. That was when Crensch moved from being an annoyed, 90% absent O, to realizing he had allowed shills to prosper under his nose. The mods of PG and GA (except for srayzie) started investigating ES in earnest, trying to pin down his alts and document his vote brigading. I also DMed more users I saw him grooming to warn them.
In August, pizzagate investigator Jenny Moore, who had been working with admitted Mossad YouTuber George Webb, turned up dead in a hotel in DC and I was blamed for her death because I had banned her from v/pizzagate months before for breaking submission rules and pushing disinfo. This resulted in several weeks of drama and accusations, calls to dox another user who had allegedly given her death threats on Voat that I had left up (he hadn’t). There was much controversy over the nature of Jem777 (Jenny Moore), and srayzie attempted to clear things up by making two submissions exposing the relationship between Jem777 and an anti-pizzagate bot network connected to Gothamgirl that she calls “Sarah” that @Camulos had originally pointed out here. Crensch also got involved in helping call out some of the BS mod attacks during that time.
As summer wrapped up, after making that post, srayzie began to have troubles with trolls in GA. She had to ban CheeseFaggotsGhost and Oh_Well_ian. Then September arrived, along with the Reddit ban of r/GreatAwakening, and SHTF.
Suddenly NotHereforPizza was lamely trying to dox Crensch as a Reddit mod, and sending srayzie multiple vaguely threatening DMs. Then “BuilderAnon” showed up and began all the gaslighting recruitment DMs to her involving Kev. I pointed out to her at the time that the tactics reminded me exactly of those used by EsotericShade, but she still thought of him as some poor alcoholic guy and didn’t see the resemblance. Like NotHereforPizza, ES also had a history of trying to get Crensch unseated as O of PG and even requested the position for himself.
A week or two later, right after the GA Reddit migration and srayzie’s spurning of NotHereforPizza and BuilderAnon, Crensch, Kev and I all received a DM from a throwaway account about "What your mod has been up to" with a link to nudes. Srayzie confirmed it was the pics she’d sent to ES a year before. She was beside herself. I had told neither Cresnch nor Kev about any of it in advance because srayzie asked me not to. I then told them I’d been expecting it from ES and thought we should go to Putt, since multiple users associated with his grooming had already self-deleted. Kev told me to never mention it again and forget it ever happened.
At that point Crensch helped us put even more pressure on all the alts we thought sounded like ES, until on October 8, @EricKaliberhall caught him getting confused about which account he was logged into. That proof allowed us to unravel his whole operation. He admitted to vote brigading with his sock puppets. Argosciv (still blacklisted by most pizzagaters gaslit by ES) had been helping me investigate behind the scenes, because he had been the #1 target for ES, attacked by multiple accounts using the same narrative. I presented the evidence of this to Crensch, who with much chagrin apologized to argo for treating him like a shill.
Once we’d firmly documented ES’s predatory behavior and vote manipulation, I told Kev I was going to ban the evil bastard, knowing if I didn’t have Kev’s buy-in I would be on my own against the
Voat Immune SystemGangs of Voat as had happened to pizzagate mods of yore. Crensch was cool with with the ban, since he'd manipulated votes.Continued...
Vindicator ago
But Kev refused to support a firm, public silencing of ES. Instead he tried to get me involved in an elaborate scheme involving deceptive CSS that would change all of the users we suspected of being his alts so that they appeared to be him, while he made accounts to troll him in anon subs until he self-deleted.
I had worked too hard to gain the trust of pizzagate researchers to risk that, though, so Crensch just gave his username a simple warning flair, and then made a brutal sticky to accomplish the same thing.
Last week, when I reminded Kev of this incident and asked him why ES didn't have a flair in "Protect"Voat, he lied about it and said he "didn't have CSS for that". When I challenged him on that BS, he lied again and claimed that I had asked him for the flair.
Unfortunately, the ES Crensching sticky did not really work. Users who had been targeted by ES could not understand why we did not ban him. Several including Cc1914, MigratoryPatterns, Eggs-vs-Bacon and Enigmatic_Continuum deleted their accounts. The months of research invested by me, Eric, think-, and Argo documenting this dangerous user turned out to be for nothing. He still roams pizzagate, GA, and even ProtectVoat, spreading his lies and demoralizing anyone who knows his crimes, the same way seeing Clinton still at large does. It's a travesty.
So no, Peaceseeker, I am not going to dismiss Crensch’s desire to tear down a system that protects predatory extortionists like EsotericShade, abusive child rape advocates like Zyklon_b, and dishonest, manipulative, corrupt power mongers like Kevdude in the laughable name of free speech as “Libido Dominandi”.
Crensch is the only person with any power on this site who has helped me protect pizzagate researchers (even though at times engaging him in a situation is akin to calling in an airstrike on my own foxhole). That began long before he saw srayzie’s pics. It involved him taking ownership of his contributions to that corrupt system and apologizing for bashing several people he shouldn’t have. It involved him realizing that Voat had been turned into an inversion of itself, a place where people exposing elite corruption are destroyed and silenced under the flag of free speech. It involved him choosing to put everything he was on Voat on the line to protect those people. All of that was Logos.
There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends. That is what I see him doing, and his willingness to do it is what has kept me on Voat despite the disgusting conduct, disregard for evidence, intellectual pearl-clutching and abuse of power I've witnessed here these past few weeks.
I’ve got a board full of intrepid sex abuse victims that draws predators and spooks like an all-you-can eat buffet. What happened with srayzie was bound to happen sooner or later. Those who’ve been raped as kids can end up with all kind of challenges: addiction, depression, PTSD, impulse control issues, hypersexualization, tons of health problems…they’re easy pickin’s. Those who survive and fight are also incredibly brave, sensitive to others’ traumas, eager to find answers and galvanized to protect kids. Kev thought it morally acceptable to bring the pics he received from EsotericShade into a conversation with Zyklon_b to help paint srayzie as a slut. He's since doubled down on this narrative, claiming srayzie tried to prey on EsotericShade, when he knows damn well what really happened.
Two days ago, he told me I’d better stop calling him out for his lies or he would drop more DMs about personal details she revealed to him about her life.
He has exploited srayzie’s weaknesses and her strengths to consolidate his power over Voat under the guise of "protection" instead of protecting those who need free speech the most, those whose stories could actually overthrow the degenerate, corrupt regime that oppresses us all.
The idea that Crensch has abdicated reason because has stood up and thundered about it and wants to create a shark cage inside which GA and PG users can investigate without being eaten seems like an intellectual cop-out from where I’m sitting.
PeaceSeeker ago
Despite being accused of projecting, being insecure, being "stubborn", having a "predefined prejudice", labelling and dismissing instead of facing reality, and even "choking down cognitive dissonance", I will reply.
"With all due respect", Vindicator, I have had one issue with this whole drama.
ONE
/u/Crensch banning users without rules or explanation. That's it. I view it as irrational, as a rejection of Logos, as unnecessary, and as unjustifiable. I have repeatedly, repeatedly asked Crensch to explain why he does not create rules and cite them. I have repeatedly asked him to explain how doing things the way he is doing is necessary or even rational. Not once has he or anyone else done do. Nothing you have said just now, nothing contributes to addressing this one issue of mine.
Do you know what does explain a refusal to act rationally? Bring irrational. Do you what causes irrationality? Being governed by one's passions instead of one's reason. Do you know what Crensch admitted to in that message to kevdude? Being governed by his passions, or at least the potent possibility of that happening.
Given his refusal to answers my pleas for explanation or defence of his actions on rational grounds, how could I come to any other conclusion than "he's acting irrationally" and why should I ignore his admission to that reality?
I am totally insulted. I have repeatedly made rational arguments, defended my claims and stances, and asked only for the same in return. Instead I get lumped in with those who "can't handle the truth" and have to project or dismiss in order to satisfy preexisting prejudices.
Your story is lovely. I don't deny that Crensch has done good and still thinks he's doing good for those communities. I don't deny that kevdude has immoral tactics -- for him the ends justify the means, just like Crensch. I don't sure with kevdude; I disagree in many ways with how he thinks Voat should be run.
All of you can kindly stop pinging me or replying to me until someone answers THE ONLY COMPLAINT I HAVE HAD SINCE THE BEGINNING. If no one has the dignity to answer my plea, then leave me out of this drama. I am exhausted and insulted on account of it.
Vindicator ago
Yes...that message, cherry-picked from a high-intensity incident last September, was said in the heat of the moment many months ago. Shouldn't the irrational behavior have started then?
Peaceseeker, you've made a valid point, and I have been thinking about it a lot. I will attempt to answer.
First, it was not my intent to insult you or show you any disrespect. I was attempting to give you the knowledge I have of this situation, which both you and @Dismember have asked for. If you scroll up, you will see what from my perspective appeared to be you dismissing everything Crensch is doing by writing it off with the narrative that Kev has prepared -- that it's all just the power mongering of an angry lover. I spent two days writing and sourcing the back history of the situation to show why I think that is not a fair assessment, because I respect the two of you. I think you love Voat, and ought to know what's been going on.
Now let me address your issue:
I believe this exchange may shed some light. Bolding is mine:
Crensch postured as Zyklon and Kev, mimicking and mocking their bad behaviors, and then threw down this gauntlet: "I'll do the right thing when you do."
I think that is a legitimate tactic and a logical one when you consider the largely deaf response we've gotten from the Voat Literati. Folks keep saying "Let's do something constructive" and then respectfully engage the same corrupt, hypocritical, dishonest and morally reprehensible player who has presided over this debacle and manipulated everyone from behind the scenes for years.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, all the evidence of Kev's corruption that we have presented has been totally ignored. No one has commented on it in acknowledgement, let alone raised the question of whether Kev should step down from "Protect"Voat.
Yes. And thank you for making public statements to that effect. And for resigning from ProtectVoat. It's a start.
@Kevdude needs to be held accountable for his corruption before anyone who's been subject to it is going to believe there is any point in "constructive dialogue". Can't build a house with boards crawling with termites.
Is that not logical, now that you know more of the story?
Crensch is not doing what I would do. But to me, his approach is as brutally logical as Catholic laypeople so fed up with faithless bishops covering up and protecting pedophiles that they are now donating money to private investigators gathering evidence of corruption to present to law enforcement to take down dioceses financially. They are calling in airstrikes on their own positions because they are overrun by the enemy and have no better option. Lest you think that comparison unfair hyperbole, please recall that we are talking about pedophile survivors being run off Voat because a corrupt system allowed it.
I cannot and do not speak for Crensch. However, I imagine he probably wants to expose more dry rot before he feels there's any point in focusing on new construction. But I've known him well and know he has a sense of honor. I've never seen him go back on his word. Were the above promise to be met, I'm sure he would keep his end of it.
Dismember ago
Will he do the right thing when they do? I think you are a decent guy but you are right that you can't speak for anybody but yourself. Maybe it as easy as simply being yourself and removing doubt that you are just as bad as the other two.
Vindicator ago
I've never done anything else.
Dismember ago
I can see that but I was referring to the part where you said he acted like Kevdude and Zyklon to prove a point or whatever.
Vindicator ago
Crensch is doing what Rush Limbaugh has done for decades: illustrating the absurd with the absurd.
The fact that people can't accept that that is what he is doing and take a good hard look at why he is doing it (which I directly linked above), and instead decide to focus on critique of Crensch, critique of me for trying to shed light on it...it's really disappointing.
I've been fighting disinfo pushers in v/pizzagate for years now. Ideas like "Crensch is cucked and irrational" and "Crensch is the new Reddit Powermod threatening Voat" are disinfo. They're designed to distract from the point of what he is doing: exposing Voat corruption and injustice. The fact no one is willing to accept the validity of that and is grasping around for whatever lurid narrative Kev dreams up next just proves how valuable his Ruby Ridge is.
Crensch has a long history of assholery toward those he suspects of being paid to be here to distract, discourage and cover up truth. He targets those people and "shakes the tree" until the monkeys start screaming and hurling shit and their true nature is revealed. This is no different -- except for the fact his target is Kev and other elite Voaters.
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Dismember ago
Yea, I don't really appreciate the theater though. I've had a long look at this and what I'm seeing is most users sick to death of the drama and infighting between a few power users and some alts made around 30 days ago. A lot of this is about ego and betrayal and I've just about had my fill because besides one or two genuine people like yourself, the others just aren't holding my attention at all. I asked him a few questions that might have convinced me of his intent after wards but at that point he refused to answer. Maybe one day he will but I'm starting to just not care.