Yesterday, after this debacle, I added a rule about Comment Abuse for the sake of clarity.
The Voat User Agreement requires us all to Respect Other Users, both their privacy and their freedom of speech. People who work hard on their research submissions shouldn't have their work overshadowed, their free speech suppressed, and the discussion of their submission derailed by off-topic rants, flame wars or copypasta spam in the Comment section. It's not right.
This has actually been in place for several months under Voat's Sitewide Rules. If you check the banlog, you will see that Putt added the Voat User Agreement to the rule violations list moderators can cite some time ago, and Donkey and his many alts were banned for comment abuse under that -- at the request of multiple users -- after he impersonated another user to discredit her research. TrustTheTruth was also banned for comment abuse under the Voat UA spam clause because he spammed the same longwinded, evidence-free rants over and over again, regardless of the submission topic.
It's now spelled out in our sidebar. Thoughts?
Edit: Link to banlog fixed.
view the rest of the comments →
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
This is silly. All this over a mistake. Are you going to drop this rule?
Do you remember when I shitted up that post that neonrevolting tried to hijack? That was resubmitted without the drama. Neon stayed away, and I stayed away.
There are already ways submitters can censor the comments in their own posts without mods censoring users free speech.
Vindicator ago
Sure. If the majority of regular contributors don't want it. I disagree that it's silly or that it's "all over a mistake". This has been an issue for a very, very long time, one that the physical platform previously offered no mechanism to address. With the addition of the User Agreement to the ban and removal interfaces, it now becomes possible and should be discussed.
I do indeed. @Darkknight111's work was completely trashed, his meme campaign momentum was lost, and several of us had to deal with an inbox blizzard. He was ultimately forced to delete his post and resubmit it -- losing any relevant comments and all the original momentum. This would prevent exactly that kind of shitstorm from overtaking people's hard work in the future.
Also, Neon did not "stay away". He was downvoted into the negatives by an organized vote brigade, which permanently disabled his account when DK self-deleted.
This is an interesting observation. Unfortunately, the only way a submitter can censor comments is to self delete the entire submission (a huge, demoralizing act of self-censorship of real, evidence based content), and even that doesn't work if they have been marked for targeting, as @argosciv was by ES and his sock puppet brigade.
Perhaps, as someone who does not contribute content and only participates by commenting in other people's submissions, this seems like a fair sacrifice to you. Try looking at it from the OP's point of view.
Why can't users who want free speech just make their own submission?
argosciv ago
I preface the following by acknowledging that I'm no longer a regular v/pizzagate contributor and that my opinion on the matters discussed ahead should not have much, if any, bearing on any associated outcomes.
On the subject at hand; "Comment Abuse Rule":This is going to contrast slightly, in some places, with Points of Amusement at the bottom – but here's my take...
I'll start with one of the points of contention (because it's easier to get from there to the end), the changing of v/pizzagate's rule 5.
The old Rule 5 was about making sure you self-flair your content if it is NSFW, with the "NSFW" flair:
In terms of shuffling the NSFW flair clause out of its own rule and into another: I say go for it, but I would say that it would be more appropriate to instead append it to Rule 3 (and Rule 6 for good measure).
The new Rule 5:
Totally acceptable in its concept though I would caution against regular use of it unless clear intent to derail is displayed. I think there is some merit to concern if the rule is not further refined before its first (next?) citation.
I would encourage steering the definition and utilization away from punishing people just for having a shitty attitude, as this would be tone policing(?). It should be practical in terms of stamping out blatant disruption but it also shouldn't be something which can be invoked because someone said something coarse to someone sensitive. More on this ahead.
Incidentally: If you think about it, Rule 5 as it stands now was actually 50% covered by Rule 4 (which applies to all and seemingly has not changed for 1.3+ years) already – long before the other point of contention;
The banning of Nomochomo:
InB4 "Ping me you coward!": See bottom of comment.
It's no secret that I'm not in any rush to defend Nomo, but looking at things chronologically speaking for a moment and given a pre-existing understanding that 'best conduct' is to only ban for violations of rules that were already defined before the incident in question:
The VUA ROU is barely efficient in that, although it forms a basis for the creation of the "Comment Abuse" rule and the title of the VUA ROU is something you'd like to think we can all abide by at least in v/pizzagate on the surface, the wording of the clause is not properly suited the situation in full. There's a misstep in translating it to a contextually appropriate, beneficial extension of the VUA ROU for inclusion in the v/pizzagate rules, but I think we can nail it.
For example's sake: I would add a note to Rule 5's definition stating that it is based on the VUA ROU, with a reminder that the VUA ROU is in effect. I would also, whether included in the written definition or not, consider interference with the 24h grace/edit/deletion process by "comment abuse" in the form of meta-themed disruption (Rule 4) instead of assisting by either presenting sufficient supporting material for the author to add to their submission or creating their own better submission in the case of an uncooperative author, an affront to this rule; a violation of Rules 4 and 5.
Which leads me to my final points on the banning of Nomochomo and the subsequent new Rule 5:
And now it's time for...
Points of Amusement:This: link
Also this: link
Also because of both above points of amusement:
Continued attempts to capitalize on my providing material on a discussion suppression/manipulation tactic which is known to be regularly used against myself, Crensch, yourself (the latter 2 of which most noticeably of late) and many others who have found themselves at odds with users who have a particular association with ES.
Previously:
In comments here:
RE: "Ping me you coward!": You say that as if you aren't checking in regularly anyway and as if we don't (or shouldn't) all have each other on block. Ultimately I'm in no rush to see or be notified of your replies – we're not going to be nice to one another, so frankly I don't care (I'm surprised if you do, to either) – I'll read them eventually and maybe (probably not) respond though.
PS: Downvote away, trickle or otherwise; this comment is a child of a Vindicator comment you're already downvoting near to the point of not being visible, which is itself a child of a comment which isn't exactly near the top when sorting by top first.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
Argos, I have always considered you a PG community member. I think you're wrong about things half the time because you are only capable of seeing things from your own perspective. To me you seem myopic.
Just so you know, I do very much think that the thot is a full fledged, cauldron stirring, cackling cunt of a witch. I also believe that ES and her are in it together. I've seen no evidence of him ever causing her any trouble. And she never called him out or answered as to why shy wouldn't. Both of them are destructive narcissists, peas in a pod.
The downvotes are nothing i can do anything about, except prove that they aren't coming from me.
I am not the user who posted the info on the silly games y'all play, you did that.
How am i not supposed to believe that you are all pulling that shit here, when i suspected it to begin with? Trickle votes, ffs.
@ESOTERICshade and @NOMOCHOMO are two very different individuals, and you cannot prove that they are anything else, or you would have done so by now.
I'm curious, argos. What should the PG researchers who are not on the mods 'Approved List' of submitters do with their work?
I'd like them to stay on Voat and post their work to a system sub instead of just abandoning this site because PG got fouled for them. Kinda like you did with your submissions to PGWE. Do you think I'm wrong to recommend this, I don't know what else to tell them.
ESOTERICshade ago
First of all, I am not argo. I am @esotericshade.
That is putting it much too kindly. Argo is out of his fucking mind. Although, I will admit, he has improved lately. He just needs to stop smoking those mushrooms. I don't really have anything against smoking mushrooms, but damn it....ya know?
I can absolutely guarantee you that you are incorrect on that one. I would never have known that srayzie sent her titties to everybody if @kevdude had not alerted me. That bitch did whatever she did all on her own.
I don't cause trouble but I absolutely will call BULLSHIT when I see bullshit. Qanon was pure bullshit. @vindicator believed the Qanon bullshit was real. I get it. I understand. I think vindicator had good intentions, BUT, he was mistaken. I don't fault vindicator for being mistaken, BUT I DO fault him for acting like a little bitch about it.
Yes we are not the same people. We are not the same person. Vindicator just needs to change his diapers.
You need to ask argo that question. You are talking to ESOTERICshade. But according to @vindicator new rules that probably won't last long because I will get banned.
I also believe that ES and her are in it together.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
Shut the fuck up and learn to read, you were pinged because i was discussing you, imbecile.
ESOTERICshade ago
If I was married to you, I would kill myself. I am damn glad we aint married. Arent you? :)
(im laughing as i say that, it was a joke)
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
If you ever come near me, you'll be dead before you hit the ground. I do not tolerate abusers.
ESOTERICshade ago
Thats pretty strong language. I guess you been listening to crensch too long. Who did I abuse?
SearchVoatBot ago
This comment was linked from this v/pizzagate comment by @Crensch.
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Crensch ago
"Hi, my name is ESOTERIC, and I'm a half ass shade tree Talmud scholar. This is part 1 of my introduction. You are now reading part 2:"
"I realize I made a HUGE mistake letting you guys know my weak points, but I'll try my best to make it seem like I really don't care about you bringing up my METH problems again and again."
"While we're at it, I claim to have gotten FUCKED IN THE ASS AS A LITTLE KID, and TORTURED for 7 YEARS with MICROWAVES by the deep state! You believe me, don't you? #believe"
"I like to repeat my manipulation tactic of trying to make my real life sound better than yours by telling you to get a job and mentioning "boots" and "coffee table" like a cringe-worthy little faggot. Do you feel shame yet, goyim? Oh yeah, YOU ARE A METH HEAD."
"My comments often seem completely retarded, and don't actually seem to be responding to the parent comment or subverse, like this one. In it, I once again affirm that METH is a huge part of my life, and a very deep, personal thing for me."
"If I could ban Crensch, I would; I also think he's the butthole of Voat. I think people care about my opinion, because I claim I was targeted by a witch coven."
"Did I mention METH was a huge part of my JEWISH life? I like presenting snark and projecting onto others how my friend's meth addiction is a case for the books, and how I need to get help to deal with it."
"I like to ping putt and ask him to KILL users I don't like. I once saw a kid get hacked up for his 1.5 MILLION DOLLAR organs, and then he was tossed into a pile with other dead kids, which reminds me: Is anyone else going Trick or Mething with their family for Halloween?"
"Occasionally I'll say something like "I'm leaving" or "I'm done here" or "I don't care" or "I don't need all this", but I stick around anyway and continue to respond, proving myself a liar over and over again. It's the meth talking. I'm sure of it."
"Did you know I SAVED /v/pizzagate with my vote manipulation and harassment of legitimate users? I saved it by harassing them until they left. Look at the active user list - aren't you proud of me? No, I still can't get my daddy's approval, and the rest of my family is still addicted to meth. Do I get pity points for that? Did you see how I totally made Q look legitimate by hating on Q?"
"Look at how pathetically beta I am, trying to suck up to a female that hates my guts. This is how I start grooming women online - lots of compliments and smiley faces and feel-good bullshit. They never know that I'll poison their minds into thinking I'm a good guy and the mods are evil when the opposite is true. I also won't tell them about being a TALMUDIC SCHOLAR JEW or that I have a meth addiction."
"On my alts, I admit to manipulating votes and threatening other users with my doing so, while on my main username, I act like I'm completely unfazed by all of my bullshit being put on display. I'm really just a low IQ Jew that thinks doubling down is always the best move - along with snorting meth; definitely the best move on that last one."
Crensch ago
"Hi, my name is ESOTERIC, and I got my meth-addled mind demolished by a user I think is 19 years old. I write comments telling this user to "grow up" using nigger slang, and tell him to find his own voice while creating alts and manipulating votes and consensus to amplify my own. I groom women on this site by attacking them with my alts, and downvoting them to make them feel like shit; then I swoop in and save the day as ESOTERICshade, and create my own Hegelian dialectic scenario in doing so."
"Notice how I try to use snark here to try and make this 19 year old sound absurd, but it only confirms to him, and others, that I REALLY slipped up in bringing up meth heads in the first place; I'm an overemotional Jew that can't help but make mistakes and show my weaknesses when the goyim makes me feel inferior. Here I am intimidating a woman I previously threatened and harassed by confronting her when she very obviously wants nothing to do with me."
"Here I am, pretending I don't think about a user much after threatening him to "be careful before you shoot your mouth off", basically proving that I am capable of the harassment mentioned above, but incapable of sticking with one narrative or manipulation tactic. Like this one where I weave a story where I allude to Voat being a CIA honeypot out to get me because of the TRUTH my meth-addled mind speaks!"
"Just like above, I like to tell users exercising their FREE SPEECH things like this:"
"But it's totally NOT a credible threat from me, goyim! TOTALLY USE YOUR FREE SPEECH just nothing offensive, cuz someone will get you, K? I have my meth heads and water heaters to deal with, so I, myself, am too busy to be a threat to you! See? I'll even tell you myself that I'm no threat to you, which makes it believable, right?"
"This comment employs tactics such as LYING about not understanding what comment another user is referencing, despite an archive being provided, the brown-nosing of ONE mod while attempting to gaslight another, and the 'u mad bro?' coupled with my telling the user to "take a break" in order to cool off, because they are TOTALLY mad, just because I said so!"
"I like to LARP as grampa ESOTERIC and warn you of things any sane person would already be aware of, but I'm TOTALLY doing it for your own good because you totally mean well, but you're also totally a meth head that SNORTS meth and needs to go to rehab!"
"I will spit-wad my accusations and talk about "how long it took" for him to write out the above comment and how I'm TOTALLY not going to read it. I want desperately to find out what sticks, but my mind doesn't work well enough to do so because I snort meth; sadly, my friends and family also snort meth, so they cannot help me beat this guy, either."
"Hey guise, I totally did a thing that was totally good for PG and you NEED me because reasons and it TOTALLY excuses my use of alts to brigade and manufacture consensus and groom users, all of which I have never apologized for because I am not sorry."
"I'm not going to read your comment - too busy snorting meth. I love meth. Meth should be legalized. Meth heads are awesome. But somehow I'm worried about CRENSCH'S state of mind."
"I like to blow smoke up users' asses, like this, where I say nice things about Crensch, but 8 months ago and even 1 hour ago I show that that I think Crensch is a fuckwit."
"When I, ESOTERIC, get caught in a lie, I claim it was a 'weak moment'. I somehow KNOW other 'users' will show up... oh, sorry, 'WELL KNOWN USERS' that mostly happened to be my alts. Did I mention I'm a Jew that loves meth heads?"
"As a meth-addled Jew, it's very difficult for me to see patterns that goyim can easily see, therefore, my words often don't make any sense; I'm also lazy, and like to pretend I have a real life, despite meth being a huge part of that life."
"As a Jew, I make lots of mistakes when I'm emotionally compromised; also, as a a meth head, I use my JewJitsu to try and lie my way out of my mistakes. It used to work long ago, but the goyim are waking up!"
"Ignore all of those times I mocked you while brown-nosing others, and all those times I've flip-flopped back and forth - YOU, kevdude, are the one cool guy in the room! ... for now.."
"I LOVE accusing others of things I, myself have done. Like gaslighting, and botting, and running off good users of PG, and including myself by saying "we left" when I never actually left... I say that multiple times because I am insecure, and need to repeat myself to calm my meth-addled nerves."
"(((We're on the same side, GOYIM!))) Also, I have NO TIME for this because of a trailer and a truck, because my IRL is better than yours - also I TOTALLY don't get shekels for being here. You believe me, right?"
"Forget three paragraphs above where I was brown-nosing kevdude and disparaging you, Vindicator, because you totally do a good job and I have no problem with what you do. No, wait, it's think- I like now! Please don't make me withhold my approval from you for disagreeing with me, think-!"
"I was TOTALLY out of my mind 7 paragraphs ago where I said nice things about Crensch, he needs to be gone yesterday because I can't see anything but words that hurt my feelings."
"I have ONE goal in life, and that is to claim I don't care and won't read your comments because it's been proven that I not only do not care to save children, but that I want them to suffer and be raped and murdered."
"As a meth head Jew, I will mock you for believing in Trump, and I will WRITE IN ALL CAPS AND TELL YOU TO KEEP Q OUT OF THIS FUCKING SUB. I put on my smugface when I do this because I totally convinced you goyim to do what I wanted you to do!"
"Guize, I finally found MY OWN COMMENT that you've been linking to and referencing, but I somehow just COULD NOT FIND despite the links being RIGHT THERE for me to click on. I TOTALLY was not THREATENING you when I wrote:"
"Nope. Not a threat."
ESOTERICshade ago
Its funny as hell that you spend dozens of hours compiling and formatting this shit, and nobody cares, and 99.9% of the people won't bother to wade through it. Living in your head rent free, crensch, causing you to waste probably a couple of hundred hours, and hurting your butt this badly, is my greatest Voat achievement. ROFLMAO
Crensch ago
"Hi, my name is ESOTERIC, and I'm a half ass shade tree Talmud scholar. This is part 1 of my introduction. This is part 2. Please keep in mind that my heart aches when I think about meth, so try not to bring it up around me."
"This place, Voat, is TOTALLY fucked, and I did EVERYTHING I could do to make voice heard above the rest with sock puppet accounts. I pulled out all the morality-based stops that HUMANS would have, because I'm a meth head Jew. You'll see, without JEWS, this place will dissolve!"
"I like talking myself up with my alt, @ridleychozo, and pretending as if he knows @DeathToMasosASAP isn't me. I try to mock legitimate users by claiming all they say is "nigger faggot kike shill", but it's obviously a joke because everyone laughs at me when I do it; I know this, but I continue to try to make that one stick, because I'm a JEW. Jews just don't have the capacity to understand why our lies don't work, so we just keep doubling down on the same tired cliches."
"Smart people will jump ship, and THIS is TOTALLY my LAST COMMENT... until it isn't! I'm going to blame @migratorypatterns' leaving on Q, because obviously the goyim leaving had NOTHING to do with me and my antics. Also, I'm TOTALLY 'moving to greener pastures' where I can sock puppet and not get caught like a Scooby-Doo villain."
"I came back... AGAIN on my main meth head username to respond to my alt, @PrepareForWar that I used to threaten the mods with. (see username - I am SO clever!)"
"Hey guize, my half ass shade tree Talmud scholar thing was TOTALLY a Sun Tzu ploy, (I am SO clever - this meth really does wonders for my head.) For this comment, my mod of choice is @Vindicator; for this comment I think he MEANS well, but is a sheep being led to the slaughter."
"My favorite fallacies are "tone fallacy" and "relative privation". I also like LARPing as being the nephew of a senator since it makes me sound important."
"I also like psychologically projecting my own faults onto others; like not getting enough sleep and doing meth. Did you all notice that direct accusations of meth use don't seem to work anymore? I wonder why that is."
"I often pretend that I am unperturbed by mentions of my loved one's meth addiction. I make up fanfiction for my enemies and attempt to make my narratives stick. It's t funny how I LARP as a senator's nephew, but CONSTANTLY attack Q for LARPing?"
"@think- now YOU are the smart one!. Also, I totally try to explain away my "shade tree" meaning "half ass" even though it would suggest that I called myself a "half ass half ass Talmud scholar". I finish this comment with other horseshit nobody cares about. Do you love me yet, meth-addled daddy?"
"I also think Orange Man Bad and I add Plato's allegory in to make myself looks smart. @think- you are now crazy, not smart. No longer my favorite mod! I randomly bash all goats and other users here, too, by saying they'll "Jew it up" when I, myself, am Jewish."
"Listen to old grampa ESOTERIC and I will show you the way, (of the Jew!) See, I can even attack people without links supporting my accusations, and pretending to hate Jews when my earliest comments were telling goats NOT to attack races like the Jews!"
"I don't care anymore, and I barely log in here anymore, but now you, @Blacksmith21, are my favorite Voat user! Watch me randomly mention winter and tell you like a good grampa ESOTERIC to get a coat. Totally not gay of me, though!"
"Here I am, thirteen days ago trying to act out my "Grampa PizzaGate" persona to @darkknight111. Listen to me, goy! I know what's best for you!"
"I like talking about putting muddy boots on my coffee table, because it makes me feel more like a human, you know, like those Zuckerberg memes! Also, my sister is sadly back in rehab with her meth addiction. It's SO sad, but I'll keep acting like CRENSCH has the meth problem because it makes me think that people won't believe I have a meth addict in the family ."
"I like to accuse others of scaring off good users, because it TOTALLY wasn't already proved that I did exactly that, constantly. I don't like the fact that the mods don't take my alt accounts seriously when they push the same narrative I was pushing!"
"I admit to going to rehab from my own meth addiction. If only my mother would go back to rehab, maybe she could become human instead of something that kinda looks like a human that just needs to DIE."
"Applaud me more, goyim, for running off good users here! I saved the children from being rescued from their rapists! Don't applaud me, I don't want your applause... seriously... don't applaud... not even a little... anyone? Anyone? NOTICE ME, SENPAI."
PrepareForWar ago
Kill yourself.
Crensch ago
Keep up the good salt!
ridleychozo ago
Stop pinging me, retard.
ESOTERICshade ago
whoaaa nellie! This is my favorite meth addled rant so far. Like everybody else I only briefly scanned it and won't waste my time wading through it all but I cherish the fact that you are so butthurt that you waste your time doing it. Got my muddy boots on the coffee table of your mind again. Have you ever considered getting a hobby? Maybe you should start raising bunny rabbits again?