A direct descendant of Brigham Young, married to a direct descendant of Joseph Smith, worked in the Church archives. What they found caused them to leave, and dedicate their lives to exposing the lies of the Mormons.
Research for yourself. Missionaries & visiting teachers follow the "milk before meat" teaching, i.e. all they're going to tell you about is the good, non-controversial stuff until you're hooked.
Orthodox Mormons have a long history of child to old man marriage. Not uncommon for a teen girl to be kicked out of her home because she refused to marry an older man. I've seen it first hand it's pretty sad.
These people are not affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Conflating the two is a deep disservice to the cause of truth and justice.
Are you suggesting that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints collects tithes from FLDS splinter groups? That idea is ridiculous on its face and I defy you to demonstrate otherwise.
You're asking me to prove a negative, which is always impossible.
The Church collects donations from its members. It wouldn't ask such donations of FLDS groups because they are not members. I can conceive of no reason they would offer such donations any more than I could imagine a Catholic donating to the Church.
As our detractors are fond of pointing out, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is prosperous. It has no need of FLDS money.
I've asked you to demonstrate otherwise. You did not do so. Therefore, I can only assume that your accusations are pulled from thin air.
You are trying too hard to focus on the FLDS. It's like arguing moderate vs extremist muslims. We just sit by and let the kids get fucked by old men we don't actually fuck the kids...
Do some mormons marry children to adults? y/n?
Do girls get abandoned/shunned by their families for refusing arranged marriages? y/n
I'm an old fart now, I've lived all over the US, and the only place where It was socially acceptable for a 13 year old to marry a 40 year old was in Utah. And they weren't wearing the amish old timey style flds cloths...
Big organizations get corrupt. Just look at the catholic church. Your claim is like saying there are no pedo clergy in the catholic church. It happens you might not like that it happens you may wish and pray it didn't. That doesn't change the facts.
I'm sure there are dozens of books and news articles proving me right, I don't care enough to bother finding them. All I know is what I know first hand. I seen it and I help them get away from it. Doing so everyone I talked to seemed to think it was a common occurrence, I only saw one instance so I can't speak for how wide spread it is. All I know is it happens. Bury your head in the sand if you want and live in a fantasy land it doesn't effect me one bit.
By "Mormon" I'm going to assume you mean members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which FLDS are not. Different organizations, different philosophies, and very different missions. So I outright reject your analogy vis a vis moderate vs extremist Muslims. The analogy is more like Evangelical Christians vs. Jonestown. There is a common heritage, but to equate them is incorrect to the point of insulting.
So, since we have our terms straight:
Do some mormons marry children to adults? y/n?
No. This would be an excommunicable offense.
Do girls get abandoned/shunned by their families for refusing arranged marriages? y/n
No. We have our share of messed up families, but neither child abandonment nor arranged marriage is condoned.
the only place where It was socially acceptable for a 13 year old to marry a 40 year old was in Utah.
Once again, you're conflating a tiny group with a large population. It's an outright misrepresentation. Frankly, I'm having a hard time thinking you're not just yanking my chain at this point, your arguments are so unserious.
Big organizations get corrupt.
Look, we have our share of scumbags. But when bad actors are detected they are rooted out as quickly as possible and referred to law enforcement as appropriate. We have no cultural tolerance whatsoever for the kind of behavior you're suggesting.
Can I guarantee that nothing you're suggesting has EVER happened? Of course not, and to expect me to make that argument is pure sophistry on your part. But it's not sanctioned, permitted, condoned, or accepted at any organizational or cultural level. What more can you expect from a large organization?
I'm sure there are dozens of books and news articles proving me right
There are lots of lies, half-truths, and innuendos out there. The library of anti-Mormon literature is expansive. That's what happens when Satan wages war. But just because it gets published doesn't mean it's true. As an 'old fart' I'd suspect you've figured this out by now.
All I know is what I know first hand. I seen it and I help them get away from it.
I'm grateful and glad that you helped. A sincere thank you for that. To paint it as anything more than an isolated incident, however, is well beyond your purview if you only have knowledge of one incident.
Nobody's burying their head in the sand. We're explicitly warned in our scriptures to resist the idea that "all is well in Zion." (2 Nephi 28:21) The parable of the wheat and the tares was provided for a reason. But the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, notwithstanding the imperfections and even evil of a few of its members, is one of the greatest forces for good this world has ever seen, inspiring many people to accept Christ as their Savior and reach higher in their service and love toward Him and toward their fellowman.
The fundamental thing that I know is that Jesus Christ is my Savior and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him. No evil thing leads to Christ.
You certainly make a good spokesmen for the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I'm not saying all Mormons are bad not sure why you guys all of a sudden started distancing yourself from that term. In fact, They are probably one of the most admirable groups in the US. Strong focus on family and anti-drug they have some problems but, nothing too bad. Even our distasteful topic we talk about here they don't do it out of malice, They do it out of tradition, it used to be the most normal thing in the world. Now days not so much.
However, People do leave the church on a regular basis. Maybe you should talk to some of them and find out why they left. Unless the church forbids you..
Lol the Church has no control over who we talk to. We understand why people leave and if they think they can find more happiness away from the Gospel then we wish them the best. They are accepted back with open arms should they choose.
Most of our problems in the battle for truth come from those who feel driven to prove to themselves that they made the right choice. They tend to become militant in their opposition. It's alright, opposition is necessary and makes us stronger.
To answer your question, the change in terminology was encouraged by our leadership at the last General Conference. The purpose is to stress our relationship with Christ and His role as the head of the Church of Jesus Christ. The term "Mormon" undermines that and gives an incorrect impression of what we're about. It's an effort to correct that error. Here's President Nelson's instruction on the matter, if you're curious:
Those are the fundamentalist mormons who wear long dresses, and wear their hair up in 19th century hairdos. The modern members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are expected to go to college or on 18 month missions, which they pay for themselves.
This is not about religions or party affiliation.
EVIL is everywhere.
There are no drawn lines.
No boundaries.
Good vs Evil.
Q
In September 2018, Q wrote:
They want you DIVIDED.
DIVIDED by RACE.
DIVIDED by RELIGION.
DIVIDED by CULTURE.
DIVIDED by CLASS.
DIVIDED by POLITICAL AFFILIATION.
DIVIDED YOU ARE WEAK.
TOGETHER YOU ARE STRONG.
WE, THE PEOPLE.
WWG1WGA!
Q
You can't pick and choose from the Gospel of Christ. You either live it or you don't.
The Church does not control my underwear. I choose to continue to wear the garment as a reminder of my relationship with God. I could stop at any time.
Am I missing something? I have no question but that Mitt is corrupt as they come, but I am not seeing any actual evidence presented for this theory, which seems pretty bizarre to me in that Ann Romney is turning 17 in 1966--and she was supposed to be conspiring with Mitt's father to get him looped into all this stuff in Paris by then? Field M. seems to have some insider knowledge (particularly about the planes he flew and his apparently evil sister), but then also to go off in all kinds of directions without any actual evidence to support his claims.
All Christian's are evil. What kind of God would tell some one to kill their own son or do all that shit in the book of job. You people worship a fucking demonic Jew.
You are right, but Christians themselves are not evil. It’s not their fault that the Abrahamic religions are products of Satan. They know not what they believe, but their intentions are sincere and good. Fortunately, “belief” is totally irrelevant. It’s all about how we treat other living beings. Period.
Couldn't tell ya, I stopped following him a long time ago. Maybe he's researching building a new media platform? Media innovation is one thing he's good at.
He definitely has his good points and I think he genuinely believes what he says when he says it - it's just that his viewpoints migrate significantly over time, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. He is a good history teacher as you say.
I just have a really hard time when he starts crying.
How about all the lines in the Doctrines & Covenants where "God" chastises Joseph Smith's wife, because she was pissy that he was looking for more poon .
SARAH, MY PROPHET ONLY FOLLOWS MY WILL INTO THOSE FIRMER, MORE NUBILE BODIES! FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD OR GTFO!
I defy you to point out one line. You're making things up. The closest you can come is where the Lord commands Emma to cleave to her husband lest she be destroyed. (D&C 132:54)
If you study the history, you'll find that it took Joseph Smith YEARS to obey that commandment. He did NOT like it. It was also a very divisive idea amongst the early Saints, with good reason.
According to his record, at one point God sent an angel to slay Joseph if he didn't obey. That's how hard it was for him.
The reason the early member of the Church of Jesus Christ obeyed was because they trusted God. But they knew very well that they would be reviled for it.
Mormons teach "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become".
God was once a man, did all the right things and led a perfect life, and as a reward became God of this world and populated it with his spirit children, Jesus & Lucifer being brothers.
You TOO can become God of your own world, just let them show you how!
Well you've put your own stank on it, but you're essentially accurate.
The purpose of this life is to give us a chance to prove whether we, as God's children, want to become more like Him. Those who demonstrate a valiance for the truth and righteousness in this life have the opportunity to progress in the eternities to come. This is not a privilege that is exclusive to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We just know more about it is all.
Imagine. God's children wanting to become like God. Crazy!
You're taking that verse out of context. It's talking about apostates who think they can reshape God to meet their own ideas and definitions. You know, like the Nicene Creed did.
If you're gonna Bible-bash, please don't bowdlerize the Bible to do it.
Check out the symbols on their "magic underwear". Straight outta FM. A deeper connection? Nah. When the book of mormon started to take off and JS realized people were taking it seriously he scrambled to fill out and legitimize his new religion by "borrowing" anything and everything he could, including stuff from FM. The doctrine edits continue to this day in an attempt to smooth out the inconsistencies caused by all the plagiarism.
When a Mormon couple is "Sealed in the Temple", during the ceremony, a gloved hand reaches through a curtain & fondles the couple's genitals to "bestow a fertility blessing".
They are also given "Celestial Names". The wife receives hers, the husband receives his & hers, so he can call her to him if he wants to. If he doesn't? She's SOL.
The church said that no colored would ever hold the priesthood, their Prophets & Apostles writing so, up until the point that a church in the south was about to get it's tax-exempt status revoked due to discrimination. The result? GOD HAS SPOKEN TO US! THE COLOREDS HAVE BEEN REDEEMED!
They also set their missionaries out to every library & place where you can find their literature, offered "new copies to replace the old" that conveniently left out the nasty raciss bits.
They really do have a good support for their members who toe the line, but that's just the sugar coated topping that most don't bother to look past. That church is shady as fuck.
And that's not even talking theological discrepancies.
I think he meant to say “more man” because of his later odd reference to the obscure “Boys Life” magazine. It’s his latent homosexuality shining through.
Oh boy! Here we go again with the pedophilia crap. Not everyone you hate is a damn pedophile. This guy Abel Danger is a total bull shitting conspiracy theorist.
I went to college in Utah. Never heard of Mormons until I arrived and realized the state was VERY different. Years later I fell in love with the state and it's very loving people. Sure there are exceptions, like anywhere. HOWEVER, I did learn that, at least at the time I was attending college, Utah was the state with the highest rate of incest in the nation.
Because of his big mouth, Mittens is going to become the lightning rod that leads to the exposure his cult to the entire world. What has been allowed to go on in the dark corners of the desert for generations, will soon become main street conversations. Keep your ears open.
The LDS membership in general, including my family and friends, are very loving and respectful people, but that isn't to say those at the top can't let their 'fame', status, etc. get to their heads.
Plus, what's with all the pentagrams all over early SLC and Nauvoo Temples and architecture? Weird. JS and his ocultic beliefs, Jupiter talisman, etc.? Also weird.
"For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 43:10-11 "Understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." So we should understand God is not making other gods with a small g. Anyone who comes along and says you too will be as god is saying exactly what the Devil said to Eve.
We have our share of scumbags (I'm looking at you, Reid). And I'm certain that Satanists have infiltrated into the Church just as they have every other significant organization in the world. We trust that people are telling the truth and we let God deal with the rest. When bad actors are discovered, as is demonstrated by the article you link, they are rooted out as quickly as possible and referred to legal authorities as appropriate. We have no cultural acceptance of this kind of behavior, and that is what any and every impartial investigation into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will find. We aren't afraid of scrutiny.
As for symbolism, let's consider the idea that Satan loves to take holy symbols and pervert them to evil purposes. We claim to be the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Does it not stand to reason that such symbols would likewise be restored to their proper usage?
I don't know anything about "Jupiter talisman." But if you look at some of the beliefs he had as a young man, they were in line with common beliefs of the time. Magic was granted more credence in his day than it is today; it's not surprising that he had some incorrect ideas drawn from the culture around him. What made Joseph stand out is that when God showed him the truth he followed it. Not imperfectly - a good chunk of our scripture and history deal with just how human Joseph was, and like everyone else he had to learn line upon line. But I am convinced both from my own historical study as well as the testimony of the Holy Spirit and application of the principles that he taught that Joseph was indeed a genuine prophet of God.
Thank you for approaching with reason. Many former members are not as polite as you.
I can respect that all major influential groups could have been potentially infiltrated by satanists over the years, so to hold blame over one and not another is unrealistic, and unfair to the cause for truth and justice. I also get that JS was heavily influenced by his culture, and trust me, I've been around and around these topics (in my own head and with those of all varying degrees of belief). The BoM itself is highly representative of commonly held beliefs of that timeframe. Perfect example is the gadiaton robbers (often touted by lds Q supporters as a sign that LDS have been aware of the deep state for 100's of years, but one only needs to research the conspiracy theories stirred by William Morgan exposing Freemasonry, and how that was a common theme of his time period that got baked right into the BoM.
In the end, Patriot, we could discuss this stuff all night (I have before), but really, we have the same roots, and similar hearts. Over time, greater understanding will continue to be brought to light. So keeping an open mind is the most important thing. I'm open to the idea that I have some things wrong, and open to what's in store for the world as truth continues to rise to the top. Blessings to you.
Oh cool. Just what I thought was odd phrasing but my perception of it was off. I like Italy, good engineers. Well...creative engineers with good execution.
Thanks for asking. The term "magic underwear" is based on what people think we believe, not what we actually believe.
What the temples are for is to provide a place where we can make covenants with God, which basically boil down to "I will be a good person and serve God." The garment is a symbol of those covenants designed as a daily reminder. It's very similar in purpose to religious garb of many religions, except we choose to wear it under our clothing.
As for Salt Lake, what can I tell you? It's a big town. Every big town has bad parts. Next time you're around, take the time to tour some of the Church-owned sites around Temple Square. The Conference Center is quite impressive just from an architectural standpoint. Go inside, they offer free tours. As long as there isn't an event going on, everybody's welcome.
Huh....well, I can get behind your stated motivations, and I do respect the moon commitment to community. But its "different" to me. And you know how that goes.
Sure, things we're not used to always seem weird. All we're asking is that we're extended the same courtesies as everybody else doing "weird" things for the right reasons. Thanks for the question, Anon!
Kristine Marcy McConnell is No. 1. She is the sister of Field McConnell, who is a YT whistleblower for satanic ritual abuse, and denounces his sister and agrees that she should pay for her evils. He also closely ties his sister to Hillary Clinton and I see she’s also tied to the SES. The SES, I believe, is what is slow-walking getting anything out of the FBI/DOJ.
No, we're a restoration of the church that Jesus Christ set up during His ministry. It was necessary to restore that church because humanity had corrupted Christianity to such an extent.
If Freemasonry stole some symbols from the primitive church, it's logical that such symbols would be restored to their rightful place in Christ's restored church.
I would have more respect for the LDS if only they would stop lying to people and themselves that they are the “restored church of Jesus Christ.” The whole thing is a facade to trick people into joining the church and then little by little indoctrinate them into something that is nothing near true Christianity. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan who on numerous occasions would tell stories about the supposed early Israelites after the evening meal as entertainment for his family. Even a church bishop admitted that the Book of Mormon was a false document after researching it, but placed his faith in the Doctrine and Covenants because he didn’t want to admit Mormonism is a made up religion just as Scientology is.
Well to say otherwise would be the lie, because that's what we believe. Just because it runs counter to your beliefs doesn't make it a lie.
The rest of your comment is not true. Except maybe the bishop part, I don't know about that. There are tens of thousands of bishops and more former bishops. Wouldn't surprise me if you could find one who found issue with the Book of Mormon. But the Book of Mormon continues to withstand academic scrutiny, so I suspect this individual's viewpoints could be readily addressed.
I’m trying to find the book he wrote. It was back in the late 1800’s. There hasn’t been any third-party academic scrutiny that I’m aware of that supports the BoM. Only biased research coming from within the LDS Church itself.
Why is such research invalid? If it's academically rigorous it's every bit as valid as quality research originating outside the Church. Would you expect LDS academics to simply sit back and let the world prove their case for them? Just because it contradicts your viewpoint doesn't make it biased.
All that said, the veracity of the Book of Mormon is best evaluated by reading it with a sincere heart then asking God if it's true. Once you have that witness from God, all the academic arguments are reduced to mere curiosities. I have received that witness.
The truth of the Book of Mormon proves the divinity of Joseph Smith's calling as a modern prophet.
The divinity of Joseph's calling proves the authenticity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Many people do not want to go down that road, so they try to discredit the Book of Mormon any way they can, including with intellectually disingenuous arguments. It's only wise to counter such efforts.
I said it is biased. There is a vested interest in proving the BoM to be true, so any research done by the LDS is skewed towards that end rather than being objective. If all academic arguments are reduced to curiosities, then why bother doing anything to prove the Book of Mormon at all? Your argument is circular. When confronted with facts it’s common to discount it and cling to faith because faith, by its very nature, cannot be proven. So anything can be believed. Belief doesn’t make it fact. The Book of Mormon does not prove Joseph Smith’s divinity. L. Ron Hubbard wrote “Dianetics” and founded the Church of Scientology. Does that make him divine as well? What makes him any different than Joseph Smith? They both claim to be visited by someone who gave them instructions to follow. I’m not going to change your mind about any of this so this conversation is rather moot. If you’re told not to question something, but follow it blindly and trust your feelings (which the LDS do), then you are not using the intellect and wisdom that God gave you to evaluate things objectively to discover the truth. You are nothing more than a programmed drone.
How do you know God exists? How do you know Jesus is your Savior? If an atheist demands you prove it academically, how do you respond? You might even entertain an academic argument, but in the end you KNOW what you know. This is how testimony of God works. To you and me, our belief in God and Christ are facts because God has provided us each the evidence of this truth, personally. We cannot transmit that proof to others because that's not how spiritual knowledge works.
The same principles can be applied to knowledge of the truth of the Book of Mormon, or any other source of higher truth. I don't have to give you evidence when God is perfectly capable and willing to give you that evidence Himself, if you ask for it in sincerity.
The only question you need to answer within yourself is whether you are a truth-seeker. If you're not, God won't force you into it. If you are... well, there is so much more available.
My belief is anything but blind. I have been to the dark side and back. I know this stuff because I have lived it in vivid technicolor. I understand the Gospel of Christ because I have been cleansed by the blood of the Son. I have been remolded and transformed by the Savior into a different person. Does blind faith and false belief have this power? Can the source of such power be false or evil?
I'll let you in on a little secret. /r/IAmVerySmart. Best I can measure it, my IQ's 138, which is above the 98th percentile, and I have a Mensa card to prove it. I'm a software developer by trade and am accustomed to building systems which require intricate and complex abstract thought. I have thought this stuff through very deeply, because I have that capacity.
And as grateful as I am for my intellectual gifts, it wasn't until I started listening to spiritual guidance - what you dismiss as "feelings" - that I began making any progress in my relationship with Christ. Oh, demand intellectual rigor all you like. Seek it out if that's what interests you. But in the end it won't avail you anything if you don't listen to that small, quiet voice of the Holy Spirit.
I hope this helps you understand how I KNOW that the Book of Mormon is true and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God's true and living church. I've lived it, I've analyzed it, I've sought and searched, and most importantly, God told me. You will not shake me; only God could do that.
We don't, because God directed us to stop. But you need to dig in to your Bible a bit more; the great patriarchs were all polygamous. Did this make Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, among many other holy men, evil?
The pertinent part comes from an address by President Woodruff:
"The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people...
… I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me."
In other words, President Woodruff was quite willing to obey the Lord's prior commandments and keep the practice going in defiance of the government's actions. The Lord showed him that the consequences of this course for His church would be calamitous, and it was therefore within God's wisdom to discontinue the practice. We obeyed.
This is why a living prophet of God is required on the Earth. The Gospel of Christ does not change, but its application must be continually adapted to a changing world. A primary role of a living prophet is to guide that adaptation.
The Kimballs and the Clintons are tied to trafficking in DR. Those orphans that Laura Silsby had? Headed to DREAM Center sponsored by the Mormon family, the Kimballs. BEFORE THAT, they were killing time at a place rented to them by a catholic priest who would watch over them until their new place was built.
The Pace Memorandum shows the entire state of Utah was covering up children being ritually abused IN CHURCH FACILITIES. Dozens of children across multiple states spoke to the same thing.
I just read the Pace memorandum. It shows no such thing.
He was raising an alarm bell that the Deep State stuff we know about - MK Ultra, RSA, etc. had infiltrated the Church. He attempted to quantify it, buy by no means did he say anything approaching "the entire state of Utah was covering up children being ritually abused." You're blatantly misrepresenting the document.
We have our share of scumbags, and I'm certain we've been infiltrated to some degree by Satanists, just as has every other major organization in the world. But we have no cultural tolerance for such bad actors and root them out as quickly as possible once discovered.
You moved the goal posts from 'does not say anything like that" to "was not a state wide cover up" which could only have happened after the memorandum was written.
The state of Utah conducted a 30-month investigation.
Maybe do some fact checking. 60 kids report the same type of child abuse across multiple states and the state of Utah investigated for 30 months and found nothing. found nothing.
I can't speak to that. Corruption is everywhere, and we know these monsters cover for each other. But you're using that to condemn an entire population.
It's analogous to saying that America IS the Great Satan because we've been infiltrated by the Cabal. Is it fair? Or is it hyperbole and overgeneralization to the point of insult?
you're using that to condemn an entire population.
I'm not. I'm stating that it is clear the church has been infiltrated for a long time.
If you want to wax intellectual on culpability well... is a Catholic supporting pedophilia by paying an organization that is industrial scale child rape?
"I just read the Pace memorandum. It shows no such thing."
Read it again.
Top officials of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say they are investigating reports from members that, as children, they witnessed human sacrifices and suffered ''satanic abuse'' at the hands of renegade Mormon-affiliated cliques.
Glenn L. Pace, a member of the church`s three-man presiding bishopric, reported in a memorandum dated July 19, 1990, and made public last week that an internal church investigation detailed 60 cases in which Mormons described undergoing ritualized abuse in Utah, Idaho, California, Mexico and other locations.
Basically, you're wrong. Also, the additional documents referenced are the what the cover up is trying to protect.
High level Mormons are Luciferian, of course the actual Christians who fall for the nicer aspects of Mormonism don't do the research into the real history of how the cult was created. Their prophet was an evil piece of shit who compulsively lied, cheated, and stealed. A cult like that obviously attracts psychopaths hungry for power.
Any Mormon whose gone through the Temple is defacto Luciferian. They just don't know it, nor are taught that the concept of being a God is defacto Luciferianism. The most blind and naive group one will ever meet.
They are not allowed to even read their own history, and if they do, it MUST be from ONLY church approved sources.
What an awful thing to say. Have you listened to one of their conferences? They’re all about serving one another and inspiring to do good. Nothing could be further from the truth than your accusation.
I know many of them and they’re the kindest, warmest people I know. They serve in demanding calling without compensation and they spend time trying to help others.
This is true, most people don't realize that Mormonism is setup like a masonic sect, the higher up you go, the more "theology" you get revealed to you.
The very fact that Mormonism added to the KJB when that is explicitly warned against in Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
I'm not a biblical scholar but when "The Book of Revelation" was written the Bible hadn't been compiled into a single book and The Bible has had books added to and subtracted from ' The Apocryphal Texts" as well so the Bible has been altered plenty of times!
It has and each of those decisions should be scrutinized. Some books were omitted in KJB, were any of them significant? It matters even if it is impossible to ever know the exact intent of God for holy scripture. Even the words chosen from the original Greek should be scrutinized, if for no other reason than to learn about how a translation can shape an understanding.
Revelation 22:18 refers to modifications to Revelation. This is proven by the fact that John wrote more of the Bible AFTER he wrote Revelation, and also by the fact that the Bible didn't exist when Revelation was written as it was compiled many years later.
Now that this misconception is cleared up, I challenge you to point to where God has ever said He's done speaking to His children.
After John wrote revelation, an angel would appear to another person at a much later date and cause him to add to a book that was itself a politically motivated form of the scripture (King Henry VIII wanted his divorce)?
Not only is the book of Mormon added to Revelation, it is added to Protestantism itself, and the whims of John Henry Smith and King Henry VIII.
As KJB says, by their fruits you shall no them. Well, people reject polygamy but the founder of Mormonism took wives. Now compare his life to that of John the prophet of Revelation, who witnessed the crucifixion even as the others fled.
Divinely revealed text is not a simply a matter of God talking, it is the living word, it is part of God himself. The consequences of getting this wrong are too great to shrug of the strangeness of John Henry Smith's account of his private revelation or his subsequent life of polygamy which is no longer practiced by most of Mormonism.
The expression of marriage is paramount to the identity of Christianity, this is not a secondary issue. Either John Henry Smith's life is exemplary or Mormonism is false, and the revelation of Christ, as the bride groom, informs us that the age of the patriarchs, and the permission for multiple wives has ended, as also expressed by Christ himself to the divorce happy Pharisees in Mark 10:2-8:
Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” “What did Moses command you?” he replied. They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.” “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’
Two become one. The expression of marriage is paramount to the Christian identity and manifestly different in the life of the prophet of Mormonism.
The Book of Mormon is not added to Protestantism; we reject Protestantism entirely. A core claim of ours is that Christianity had lost its way through apostasy, in spite of the well-meaning efforts of reformers such as Luther and Calvin, and that a wholesale restoration was necessary.
Likewise, parts of the Bible had been lost through corruption and with them key parts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Therefore, new revelation was required to restore these truths in preparation for the End Times. This is why God inspired the creation of the Book of Mormon - a project which started around 600 BC, by the way.
The great patriarchs were all polygamists. Were they not holy men? Did they not practice it before the advent of the Law of Moses? Therefore, the idea of polygamy under God's direction is not in and of itself evil. We no longer practice it because God directed us to stop.
Frankly, I don't fully understand the reasons behind polygamy, other than what the Lord Himself told Jacob in the Book of Mormon (Jacob 2):
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
So I don't pretend to understand the apparent contradiction. But it's alright, I know that Jesus is my Savior and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him. All other understanding will come in time. But He does say that He will command polygamy from time to time if it is His purpose to "raise up seed." This explains why He authorized it for the patriarchs, and I can only likewise assume that it was the Lord's will to build up the early Church quickly in order to advance His purposes.
My question is, my misnomer aside, why, centuries after Christ, centuries of a monogamous marriage why reintroduce the time of the patriarchs?
This is a matter of eternal salvation. And marriage is intrinsic to the Christian (read post-patriarchal) identity. If the founder of Mormonism got polygamy wrong, that is not inconsequential. Is that not fair? Marriage expresses the absolute truth of God's desire for his creature, as Christ is the bride groom to his church.
Anyways, I don't mean any rudeness. I wrote my response very late and I apologize if I am coming across as rude to you personally.
I will review my Mormon history so I can speak more accurately on the matter.
Well, like I said I don't understand polygamy fully. I think I would personally have a very hard time living it. But when God commands, you obey.
The best explanation I can offer is the one above in Jacob 2:30. Other more erudite members may be able to do better.
If you read the contemporary histories, you find that Joseph himself had a terrible time accepting the commandment. He did NOT like the idea. He reports that he had to be commanded four separate times over several years. In the end, he records, the Lord finally sent an angel with an ultimatum - accept the commandment or the angel was commanded to slay him.
A test of faith? Abraham was commanded to kill his son. A means to "raise seed" in preparation for the Lord's kingdom? The House of Israel's influence and promises spread across the globe and have reverberated throughout history. I don't know the purpose of the commandment. But I reiterate that I know Jesus is my Savior and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him. That faith in the Savior is my guide star and demonstrates to me that the Church cannot be evil, for no evil thing leads to Christ. All other understanding will come in time.
I guess my only point is that God's ways are higher than our ways, and sometimes we're expected to obey without understanding.
Bill Schnoebelen has a lot of lectures about his time in the Mormon church. He describes it as being a Masonic Luciferian organization. Take it with a grain of salt though.
They play word games to obscure the fact that they don't believe Jesus is God, but they don't believe Jesus is God.
They also trick you by plastering pics of Jesus all over their marketing materials...but thats just so they can try to recruit ignorant Christians.
There's room for SOME disagreements on details among Christians....but to be considered a Christian, shouldn't you have to at least believe Jesus is God?
Your following false teachings friend, I would suggest converting to Christianity & repenting. Straight from Christ himself: "For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 43:10-11 "Understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." So we should understand God is not making other gods with a small g. Anyone who comes along and says you too will be as god is saying exactly what the Devil said to Eve. May God bless you friend & shine his light on you. Godspeed on your journey.
Thanks, but I'm already a Christian. Jesus is my Savior and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him.
Your concern is appreciated but unnecessary. I enjoy a daily walk with Christ.
I'll pose a counterpoint to you: What exactly is the Bible talking about when it speaks of inheriting the Kingdom of God? We happen to take that promise literally. How could this happen if not for the possibility to choose a path that leads us to becoming like our Father?
Fair enough. I will leave you with a single passage from the Holy Bible, this again is Lord Christ Jesus's speaking. And what he is speaking of is false Messiahs, friend ask yourself one question could there be more Jesus?...
Mark 13:6
"Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many."
Jesus is the Son of God and God. Jesus was NOT created, as the Mormons believe. He always was, same as the Father and Holy Spirit....In fact, Jesus --as taught in the KJV-- created the world.
Straight from Jesus himself: "For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 43:10-11 "Understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." So we should understand God is not making other gods with a small g. Anyone who comes along and says you too will be as god is saying exactly what the Devil said to Eve.
And yet all you Christians have different interpretations of the same Jesus from the same bible. So many different Gods from one book. How do you know which one is right?//////
I didn't say they don't "believe in Jesus". I said they don't believe He's God.
And it matters WAY more than your too-casual "you just believe different things about Jesus". When the "different" is the Mormon doesn't believe Jesus is God and the Christian--pretty much by definition--believes Jesus IS God? You worship a different God than Christians do.
TWO weasel-worded dishonest statements, calculated to mislead. Again, thanks for the demonstration.
The mormon believes Jesus is the son of God, acting as the God of this world on his behalf. They believe in three Gods. Father, son, holy ghost. So I guess different, but they believe in the same bible, the same Jesus in the bible. They just interpret him differently than most christian religions. But honestly, it seems to me that all Christian religions have their own version of this Jesus from the same bible anyway. That is all I'm saying.
And in response to your assumption that I believe in a different God than Christians. I don't believe in Gods.
You are claiming now to NOT be a Mormon, I'll take you at your word....but you seem to have struck upon some of their favorite misdirections in hiding their actual beliefs about Jesus from potential recruits....
Look, "they" believe Jesus was CREATED. By God. They believe that Satan is Jesus' BROTHER.
That would make Satan "God" too, wouldn't it? No definition of God that I've ever seen defines Him as a CREATED being. If Jesus is created, who is He in relation to His "Creator"? A "created" God is --conceptually-- a contradiction in terms.
Okay... seems like you're using word play now. No, I'm not a mormon. Mormon beliefs are a bit ridiculous IMO, but I feel that way about all versions of God I have studied.
Mormon's believe Jesus and you and every other human is a son or daughter of God. But Jesus was the only "perfect" child, given the powers of God on earth. Mormons believe Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. That God gave him power to act as his proxy and created the earth as he was commanded by God to do so and God gave him dominion over it. They believe God sent him to earth (New Testament) to die for the sins of mankind. Mormons believe satan was also a son of God that was cast out. They view him more as a God of hell, who has no power over God. In reference to "created" yeah, they believe Jesus and all other sons daughters were created by God.
Probably what makes so many Christians so mad about the way mormons view God, Jesus, whatever, is they believe good humans can some day progress to the status of a God and do exactly the same thing God did. They think it is all a cycle.
You may have large differences in what you believe about Jesus, but that's the same with all Christian religions IMO. It is the same bible you read. The same Jesus in it. You just all interpret him different. So claiming mormons don't believe in Jesus, when it Jesus is literally a part of every belief system they have, and the their only way to God, is just word play.
What we believe about Jesus is THE determinant factor ....we believe He is GOD. You keep saying that Mormons "believe in Jesus", as if thats akin to believing He is God. Its also "How to trick Christians into believing Mormons are also Christians 101".....those slick lies are TAUGHT to Mormons as recruiting agitprop to use against unsophisticated Christians.
You use way too much of that agitprop...I've changed my mind again....this "I'm not a Mormon myself, but I can tell that they're the same as any Christian denomination" routine is more obvious than you imagine.
You imagine you know me or my history. You fool yourself into such thinking. I just call bullshit when I see it. You christians, mormons, whatever, love to divide. I am an atheist who cares not what you or others believe. I just hate division and that is what all of you seem to do. US vs. THEM. It accomplishes nothing, but division. Nice try though.
It's not that we don't want to hear it, it's that we've heard it all. It gets frustrating to make the same points again and again to a world that seems quite intent on not listening.
FLDS are 100% child traffickers. Research the "Lost Boys", teen boys that get kicked out of the polygamist communities on trumped up charges due to the older men not wanting to compete for the women.
What do you expect us to do? Storm their compounds? They are excommunicated and disassociated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They are disavowed as apostates. That's as far as the Church's earthly authority permits.
The rest is a matter for law enforcement officials, with whom we fully cooperate.
Yes, we do expect the authorities to storm their compounds and remove children from a situation where they are being raped and molested. Many who have escaped the compounds have reported the physical, sexual, and mental abuse that goes on there. Why are the compounds protected? Who is protecting them? Authorities who agree with or don't exactly object to what goes on there.
In terms of religion and the way it was founded, I have way more respect for the FLDS by sticking to their principles than the cult-lite of Utah PR bullshit LDS sellout disguised as revelation.
Then you don't understand the doctrine. FLDS and RLDS doctrine has very little similarity to the founding principles of the Church. They've changed it to suit their purposes. It's the exact opposite of "sticking to their principles."
We've altered our application of the Gospel of Christ over the years as societal changes necessitate, but the principles have not and will not budge.
You need to learn how to be intellectually honest for once in your life. Dropped down to 2 hours on Sundays for church instead of 3. Lowered the age of missions to 18 for boys and 19 for girls. Sister Missionaries can now wear pants!!! WOW!! I'm sold. SUCH REVELATION!! Literally just changed the Endowment....AGAIN! I'm shocked...I'm not. Removed the penalties, changed the washings and anointings, initiatory work, no more adamic language in the prayer circle, hell, there is not an ordinance in the Temple you clowns HAVEN'T changed, maybe baptisms for the dead. Your church is a joke. It's NOTHING BUT CHANGE. Eternal and endless be his name...but never gets it right the first time.. Don't even get me started on your Wentworth Letter and the edits put in to create your articles of faith.
You CHANGE THE ORDINANCE, IT'S NOT THE SAME! What's next? Sprinkling at baptism???
You don't have time to teach me, as well you can't, for I have forgotten more about your religion than you will ever learn.
Nah, you Googled stuff and believed what you read. Everything you've listed is an example of application, not doctrine. Except the parts that are not true.
To paraphrase a great man, anti-Mormons know so much that isn't so.
You sure are getting worked up over this. Why so mad? Just curious.
Fuck off with "application". You have zero power in your priesthood. Your prophet, seers, and revelators don't. You have lower health rates in your hospitals even with your priests and missionaries offering blessings nonstop as compared to other hospitals. Reconcile that.
Your JST's literally contradict places in your book of Mormon. You were racist up until 1978. Research "Aunt Jane Austen Manning".
Why did Joseph bang Fanny Alger in 1831 and the polygamy revelation showed up 1836? Reconcile that... you can't.
You couldn't cure a ham with your "so-called" priesthood.
Research your Lamanite project.. trying to turn Native American children WHITE by taking them off the reservation and putting them with Mormon families. You can't make this shit up!
But you do you, but as you keep sending your naive youth out to propagandized for two years, you will get your asses called out.
Well, yeah, you can. People have been doing it for a long time. There's a pretty good library of anti-Mormon fiction out there by now. That's what happens when Satan wages war. Truth will prevail in the end, regardless whether you or I get mad.
Please, keep throwing out invective. I'm having a ball! You're actually getting more angry than most anti-Mormons I've dealt with. It's fascinating. It definitely proves that you're trying to prove something to yourself. I'm just curious to find out what that is.
I can answer it all. It's not worth the effort because you aren't here to learn, you're here to argue and insult. That's not the kind of discussion I'm interested in.
So be cause a group broke off taking select beliefs and practices to go-it on their own, that indicts the original beliefs and the main group? Isn’t that how most Christian religions came to be - as “protesting” Catholicism? You’re logic needs some help anon. And please define “cult” for us. That is a pretty weak attack to use against a mainstream, world-wide Christian religion.
Half-related: I read the book "Secrets and Wives" by Sanjiv Bhattacharya several years ago. It's really good on-the-scene investigative journalism and covers the different aspects of the polygamy-side of Mormonism. He interviewed children that escaped from sick cults as well as families of "modern" polygamists who live upper-middle-class lifestyles and send their daughters to school. He also detailed the sci-fi stuff like becoming a god and running a planet. Fairly unbiased and decent book overall.
I thought of that, too, but looking at her Wikipedia article, she looks to be just a housewife with a lot of kids, though she hurt Mitt's race for Governor against Ted Kennedy by pretending to be poor while they lived off inheritance.
15910043? ago
When I found out they baptized the Dead, I Knew they were Luciferians
15905102? ago
http://www.utlm.org
A direct descendant of Brigham Young, married to a direct descendant of Joseph Smith, worked in the Church archives. What they found caused them to leave, and dedicate their lives to exposing the lies of the Mormons.
Research for yourself. Missionaries & visiting teachers follow the "milk before meat" teaching, i.e. all they're going to tell you about is the good, non-controversial stuff until you're hooked.
15901594? ago
Orthodox Mormons have a long history of child to old man marriage. Not uncommon for a teen girl to be kicked out of her home because she refused to marry an older man. I've seen it first hand it's pretty sad.
15904151? ago
These people are not affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Conflating the two is a deep disservice to the cause of truth and justice.
15904814? ago
Yea, that's what the church says but they take their tithes all the same.
15905238? ago
Are you suggesting that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints collects tithes from FLDS splinter groups? That idea is ridiculous on its face and I defy you to demonstrate otherwise.
15913127? ago
So you can without a shadow of a doubt say there is not a single case of it happening? If you think that, you are delusional.
15913629? ago
You're asking me to prove a negative, which is always impossible.
The Church collects donations from its members. It wouldn't ask such donations of FLDS groups because they are not members. I can conceive of no reason they would offer such donations any more than I could imagine a Catholic donating to the Church.
As our detractors are fond of pointing out, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is prosperous. It has no need of FLDS money.
I've asked you to demonstrate otherwise. You did not do so. Therefore, I can only assume that your accusations are pulled from thin air.
15913947? ago
You are trying too hard to focus on the FLDS. It's like arguing moderate vs extremist muslims. We just sit by and let the kids get fucked by old men we don't actually fuck the kids...
Do some mormons marry children to adults? y/n?
Do girls get abandoned/shunned by their families for refusing arranged marriages? y/n
I'm an old fart now, I've lived all over the US, and the only place where It was socially acceptable for a 13 year old to marry a 40 year old was in Utah. And they weren't wearing the amish old timey style flds cloths...
Big organizations get corrupt. Just look at the catholic church. Your claim is like saying there are no pedo clergy in the catholic church. It happens you might not like that it happens you may wish and pray it didn't. That doesn't change the facts.
I'm sure there are dozens of books and news articles proving me right, I don't care enough to bother finding them. All I know is what I know first hand. I seen it and I help them get away from it. Doing so everyone I talked to seemed to think it was a common occurrence, I only saw one instance so I can't speak for how wide spread it is. All I know is it happens. Bury your head in the sand if you want and live in a fantasy land it doesn't effect me one bit.
That's all I have to say about that.
15915558? ago
By "Mormon" I'm going to assume you mean members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which FLDS are not. Different organizations, different philosophies, and very different missions. So I outright reject your analogy vis a vis moderate vs extremist Muslims. The analogy is more like Evangelical Christians vs. Jonestown. There is a common heritage, but to equate them is incorrect to the point of insulting.
So, since we have our terms straight:
No. This would be an excommunicable offense.
No. We have our share of messed up families, but neither child abandonment nor arranged marriage is condoned.
Once again, you're conflating a tiny group with a large population. It's an outright misrepresentation. Frankly, I'm having a hard time thinking you're not just yanking my chain at this point, your arguments are so unserious.
Look, we have our share of scumbags. But when bad actors are detected they are rooted out as quickly as possible and referred to law enforcement as appropriate. We have no cultural tolerance whatsoever for the kind of behavior you're suggesting.
Can I guarantee that nothing you're suggesting has EVER happened? Of course not, and to expect me to make that argument is pure sophistry on your part. But it's not sanctioned, permitted, condoned, or accepted at any organizational or cultural level. What more can you expect from a large organization?
There are lots of lies, half-truths, and innuendos out there. The library of anti-Mormon literature is expansive. That's what happens when Satan wages war. But just because it gets published doesn't mean it's true. As an 'old fart' I'd suspect you've figured this out by now.
I'm grateful and glad that you helped. A sincere thank you for that. To paint it as anything more than an isolated incident, however, is well beyond your purview if you only have knowledge of one incident.
Nobody's burying their head in the sand. We're explicitly warned in our scriptures to resist the idea that "all is well in Zion." (2 Nephi 28:21) The parable of the wheat and the tares was provided for a reason. But the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, notwithstanding the imperfections and even evil of a few of its members, is one of the greatest forces for good this world has ever seen, inspiring many people to accept Christ as their Savior and reach higher in their service and love toward Him and toward their fellowman.
The fundamental thing that I know is that Jesus Christ is my Savior and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him. No evil thing leads to Christ.
15917373? ago
You certainly make a good spokesmen for the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I'm not saying all Mormons are bad not sure why you guys all of a sudden started distancing yourself from that term. In fact, They are probably one of the most admirable groups in the US. Strong focus on family and anti-drug they have some problems but, nothing too bad. Even our distasteful topic we talk about here they don't do it out of malice, They do it out of tradition, it used to be the most normal thing in the world. Now days not so much.
However, People do leave the church on a regular basis. Maybe you should talk to some of them and find out why they left. Unless the church forbids you..
15921873? ago
Lol the Church has no control over who we talk to. We understand why people leave and if they think they can find more happiness away from the Gospel then we wish them the best. They are accepted back with open arms should they choose.
Most of our problems in the battle for truth come from those who feel driven to prove to themselves that they made the right choice. They tend to become militant in their opposition. It's alright, opposition is necessary and makes us stronger.
To answer your question, the change in terminology was encouraged by our leadership at the last General Conference. The purpose is to stress our relationship with Christ and His role as the head of the Church of Jesus Christ. The term "Mormon" undermines that and gives an incorrect impression of what we're about. It's an effort to correct that error. Here's President Nelson's instruction on the matter, if you're curious:
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng
Thank you for the kind words.
15902276? ago
Those are the fundamentalist mormons who wear long dresses, and wear their hair up in 19th century hairdos. The modern members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are expected to go to college or on 18 month missions, which they pay for themselves.
15902297? ago
Yeah, it's not just limited to those types.
15901236? ago
Check out Q drop #925 from March 2018.
This is not about religions or party affiliation. EVIL is everywhere. There are no drawn lines. No boundaries. Good vs Evil. Q In September 2018, Q wrote:
They want you DIVIDED. DIVIDED by RACE. DIVIDED by RELIGION. DIVIDED by CULTURE. DIVIDED by CLASS. DIVIDED by POLITICAL AFFILIATION. DIVIDED YOU ARE WEAK. TOGETHER YOU ARE STRONG. WE, THE PEOPLE. WWG1WGA! Q
15900805? ago
So he really is another Jeff Flake.
15899553? ago
HIGH LEVEL MORMONISM = SATANISM? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
SATANISM IS ITS OWN FUCKED UP THING.
NICE TRY ANTI-CHRISTIAN SHILLFUCK
15899413? ago
What part of mormonism isn't Luciferian?
15899278? ago
Controls you down to the underwear. Cult confirmed.
Drop D&C 132 from your holy book and we'll talk.
15904202? ago
You can't pick and choose from the Gospel of Christ. You either live it or you don't.
The Church does not control my underwear. I choose to continue to wear the garment as a reminder of my relationship with God. I could stop at any time.
Please be less simplistic in your arguments.
15909956? ago
HAHAHAHAHA!
ok.
15899155? ago
Am I missing something? I have no question but that Mitt is corrupt as they come, but I am not seeing any actual evidence presented for this theory, which seems pretty bizarre to me in that Ann Romney is turning 17 in 1966--and she was supposed to be conspiring with Mitt's father to get him looped into all this stuff in Paris by then? Field M. seems to have some insider knowledge (particularly about the planes he flew and his apparently evil sister), but then also to go off in all kinds of directions without any actual evidence to support his claims.
15898489? ago
Absurd.
15898186? ago
Please help me doxxx @srayzie. She uses the same twitter name which has her pic. If you know here personal info, please post it.
15897209? ago
The big question about Mitt is was his father George an Mk programmer as Cathy proclaimed ... ?
15897073? ago
All Christian's are evil. What kind of God would tell some one to kill their own son or do all that shit in the book of job. You people worship a fucking demonic Jew.
15899015? ago
You are right, but Christians themselves are not evil. It’s not their fault that the Abrahamic religions are products of Satan. They know not what they believe, but their intentions are sincere and good. Fortunately, “belief” is totally irrelevant. It’s all about how we treat other living beings. Period.
15896913? ago
Anyone else suspect Glenn Beck is evil?
15898003? ago
Drama queen, yes. Evil, no.
15901214? ago
Could be! What's with him meeting with all of these tech guys though?
15903011? ago
Couldn't tell ya, I stopped following him a long time ago. Maybe he's researching building a new media platform? Media innovation is one thing he's good at.
15903080? ago
Yeah. His blaze worked out pretty well for him. And I like that he preserves history and shares it.
15903554? ago
He definitely has his good points and I think he genuinely believes what he says when he says it - it's just that his viewpoints migrate significantly over time, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. He is a good history teacher as you say.
I just have a really hard time when he starts crying.
15903811? ago
Yeah....and unfortunately I'm getting a "manipulator" vibe from him lately.
15896776? ago
why does the GOP keep running pedophiles for President then
15900821? ago
Pedos don't go after other pedos with a vengeance.
15896469? ago
How about all the lines in the Doctrines & Covenants where "God" chastises Joseph Smith's wife, because she was pissy that he was looking for more poon .
SARAH, MY PROPHET ONLY FOLLOWS MY WILL INTO THOSE FIRMER, MORE NUBILE BODIES! FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD OR GTFO!
15904366? ago
I defy you to point out one line. You're making things up. The closest you can come is where the Lord commands Emma to cleave to her husband lest she be destroyed. (D&C 132:54)
15896629? ago
If you study the history, you'll find that it took Joseph Smith YEARS to obey that commandment. He did NOT like it. It was also a very divisive idea amongst the early Saints, with good reason.
According to his record, at one point God sent an angel to slay Joseph if he didn't obey. That's how hard it was for him.
The reason the early member of the Church of Jesus Christ obeyed was because they trusted God. But they knew very well that they would be reviled for it.
15896430? ago
Mormons teach "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become".
God was once a man, did all the right things and led a perfect life, and as a reward became God of this world and populated it with his spirit children, Jesus & Lucifer being brothers.
You TOO can become God of your own world, just let them show you how!
15896675? ago
Well you've put your own stank on it, but you're essentially accurate.
The purpose of this life is to give us a chance to prove whether we, as God's children, want to become more like Him. Those who demonstrate a valiance for the truth and righteousness in this life have the opportunity to progress in the eternities to come. This is not a privilege that is exclusive to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We just know more about it is all.
Imagine. God's children wanting to become like God. Crazy!
15897188? ago
"Thinking themselves wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into corruptible man"
Keep on spinning.
15897416? ago
You're taking that verse out of context. It's talking about apostates who think they can reshape God to meet their own ideas and definitions. You know, like the Nicene Creed did.
If you're gonna Bible-bash, please don't bowdlerize the Bible to do it.
15896187? ago
Surely Mitt Romney isn't the 'MOAB'???
15895780? ago
www.protectldschildren.com
15895773? ago
Mormonism is Free Masonry re-branded as a religion.
15900306? ago
Check out the symbols on their "magic underwear". Straight outta FM. A deeper connection? Nah. When the book of mormon started to take off and JS realized people were taking it seriously he scrambled to fill out and legitimize his new religion by "borrowing" anything and everything he could, including stuff from FM. The doctrine edits continue to this day in an attempt to smooth out the inconsistencies caused by all the plagiarism.
15895596? ago
When a Mormon couple is "Sealed in the Temple", during the ceremony, a gloved hand reaches through a curtain & fondles the couple's genitals to "bestow a fertility blessing".
They are also given "Celestial Names". The wife receives hers, the husband receives his & hers, so he can call her to him if he wants to. If he doesn't? She's SOL.
The church said that no colored would ever hold the priesthood, their Prophets & Apostles writing so, up until the point that a church in the south was about to get it's tax-exempt status revoked due to discrimination. The result? GOD HAS SPOKEN TO US! THE COLOREDS HAVE BEEN REDEEMED!
They also set their missionaries out to every library & place where you can find their literature, offered "new copies to replace the old" that conveniently left out the nasty raciss bits.
They really do have a good support for their members who toe the line, but that's just the sugar coated topping that most don't bother to look past. That church is shady as fuck.
And that's not even talking theological discrepancies.
15902314? ago
That's hilarious - and totally not true. The church is growing exponentially in Africa. Africans like having a non-paid clergy, made up of volunteers.
15898927? ago
Shady as fuck us right. There is no “redeeming” niggers. They are wired completely differently from humans.
15896915? ago
You are spreading false information. Genitals, really? No
15896718? ago
Forget what they think about native Americans...
15896706? ago
Every single one of your points is false, except maybe for paragraph four, I don't know about that.
You really need to find some better sources for your information. You won't, though, 'cause your mind's made up. Good luck with that!
15895768? ago
Haha, genital fondling? Not sure where you're getting your info, but it's completely false.
15895095? ago
If this is true... why the hell did Trump endorse him. Doesn't Q have the intelligence? I don't trust Mitt at all. Seems way too shady a guy. But WTF?
15902326? ago
Exactly. It's not true.
15898724? ago
Trump can control him as much as the Cabal. Trump knows all the dirt.
15896377? ago
I'm not sure Trump endorsed him. Romney, a staunch Republican for years, was very, very anti Trump.
15896593? ago
Trump said today that he endorsed him and Mitt was very grateful.
15895055? ago
Was hoping for some sort of evidence. This didn't give much of anything.
15894913? ago
anyone who votes for a morman is as stupid as they are. anyone read their book of morman? Boy's Life is a better written.
15896716? ago
Says the guy who can't even spell "Mormon."
15898960? ago
I think he meant to say “more man” because of his later odd reference to the obscure “Boys Life” magazine. It’s his latent homosexuality shining through.
15894746? ago
Mormons are actually Freemasons, it goes back deep. Source: cia.gov I’ll update
15894570? ago
He's a dog abuser too. Fuck Mitt Zombie!
15898972? ago
He eats dog meat.
15894411? ago
Wrong.
15898978? ago
Wight.
15894336? ago
Oh boy! Here we go again with the pedophilia crap. Not everyone you hate is a damn pedophile. This guy Abel Danger is a total bull shitting conspiracy theorist.
15894452? ago
I went to college in Utah. Never heard of Mormons until I arrived and realized the state was VERY different. Years later I fell in love with the state and it's very loving people. Sure there are exceptions, like anywhere. HOWEVER, I did learn that, at least at the time I was attending college, Utah was the state with the highest rate of incest in the nation.
15902331? ago
That just means it's reported at a higher rate.
15894776? ago
So you lived under a rock?
15902968? ago
I was young and uninformed. Not any more.
15894328? ago
Because of his big mouth, Mittens is going to become the lightning rod that leads to the exposure his cult to the entire world. What has been allowed to go on in the dark corners of the desert for generations, will soon become main street conversations. Keep your ears open.
15896332? ago
You can keep dreaming, won't happen. We've nothing to hide.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has survived far worse. It'll survive Mitt's stupidity.
Nothing like what you're talking about will come to light because there is nothing to come to light.
15897500? ago
As a former LDS myself, I've heard of some such cases. See this, for example (PDF): http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/pdfnewsletters/80saltlakecitymessenger.pdf
The LDS membership in general, including my family and friends, are very loving and respectful people, but that isn't to say those at the top can't let their 'fame', status, etc. get to their heads.
Plus, what's with all the pentagrams all over early SLC and Nauvoo Temples and architecture? Weird. JS and his ocultic beliefs, Jupiter talisman, etc.? Also weird.
15909845? ago
Just curious...whats with the special Mormon underwear? Whats the purpose?
15906191? ago
"For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 43:10-11 "Understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." So we should understand God is not making other gods with a small g. Anyone who comes along and says you too will be as god is saying exactly what the Devil said to Eve.
15897687? ago
We have our share of scumbags (I'm looking at you, Reid). And I'm certain that Satanists have infiltrated into the Church just as they have every other significant organization in the world. We trust that people are telling the truth and we let God deal with the rest. When bad actors are discovered, as is demonstrated by the article you link, they are rooted out as quickly as possible and referred to legal authorities as appropriate. We have no cultural acceptance of this kind of behavior, and that is what any and every impartial investigation into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will find. We aren't afraid of scrutiny.
As for symbolism, let's consider the idea that Satan loves to take holy symbols and pervert them to evil purposes. We claim to be the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Does it not stand to reason that such symbols would likewise be restored to their proper usage?
I don't know anything about "Jupiter talisman." But if you look at some of the beliefs he had as a young man, they were in line with common beliefs of the time. Magic was granted more credence in his day than it is today; it's not surprising that he had some incorrect ideas drawn from the culture around him. What made Joseph stand out is that when God showed him the truth he followed it. Not imperfectly - a good chunk of our scripture and history deal with just how human Joseph was, and like everyone else he had to learn line upon line. But I am convinced both from my own historical study as well as the testimony of the Holy Spirit and application of the principles that he taught that Joseph was indeed a genuine prophet of God.
Thank you for approaching with reason. Many former members are not as polite as you.
15897983? ago
I can respect that all major influential groups could have been potentially infiltrated by satanists over the years, so to hold blame over one and not another is unrealistic, and unfair to the cause for truth and justice. I also get that JS was heavily influenced by his culture, and trust me, I've been around and around these topics (in my own head and with those of all varying degrees of belief). The BoM itself is highly representative of commonly held beliefs of that timeframe. Perfect example is the gadiaton robbers (often touted by lds Q supporters as a sign that LDS have been aware of the deep state for 100's of years, but one only needs to research the conspiracy theories stirred by William Morgan exposing Freemasonry, and how that was a common theme of his time period that got baked right into the BoM.
In the end, Patriot, we could discuss this stuff all night (I have before), but really, we have the same roots, and similar hearts. Over time, greater understanding will continue to be brought to light. So keeping an open mind is the most important thing. I'm open to the idea that I have some things wrong, and open to what's in store for the world as truth continues to rise to the top. Blessings to you.
15898057? ago
Agreed. Likewise to you.
15896930? ago
What's with the magic underwear? And I've got to tell you, salt lake city feels dark, man.
15897663? ago
Own your own planet?
Man chooses if woman comes to planet or not based on her behavior.
Hmmmmm. Sexist much?
I got these questions from my liberal co worker.
15897922? ago
Your liberal co-worker is misinformed regarding our beliefs.
15901237? ago
Is English your second language? Not criticizing, genuinely curious.
15902989? ago
Nope. Italian is.
15903041? ago
Oh cool. Just what I thought was odd phrasing but my perception of it was off. I like Italy, good engineers. Well...creative engineers with good execution.
15903578? ago
I didn't get to know the engineers, unless they were interested in talking about religion :-) A wonderful people, though. Kind and warm.
15903802? ago
Boppa de boopy?
15897358? ago
Thanks for asking. The term "magic underwear" is based on what people think we believe, not what we actually believe.
What the temples are for is to provide a place where we can make covenants with God, which basically boil down to "I will be a good person and serve God." The garment is a symbol of those covenants designed as a daily reminder. It's very similar in purpose to religious garb of many religions, except we choose to wear it under our clothing.
Here's an official explanation from the Church: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkTz_NQqKA8
As for Salt Lake, what can I tell you? It's a big town. Every big town has bad parts. Next time you're around, take the time to tour some of the Church-owned sites around Temple Square. The Conference Center is quite impressive just from an architectural standpoint. Go inside, they offer free tours. As long as there isn't an event going on, everybody's welcome.
15901266? ago
Huh....well, I can get behind your stated motivations, and I do respect the moon commitment to community. But its "different" to me. And you know how that goes.
15902961? ago
Sure, things we're not used to always seem weird. All we're asking is that we're extended the same courtesies as everybody else doing "weird" things for the right reasons. Thanks for the question, Anon!
15896602? ago
HahahzhhzhgGAHAHAVVABAGvavBVhahahagahahah
15896759? ago
I know, right?
15895392? ago
I sincerely hope so cuz this shit had been going on for decades
15894312? ago
PEDOGATE: Women Operatives In Very High Places Romney's wive is #80 in this report. Romney is a POS pedophile. Just what DC needs another dam pedophile. FOLLOW THE WIVES. http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/03/pedogate-operatives-in-very-high-places/?fbclid=IwAR24Xebcjs4_U87yp6il_j4HggbL0_IwPc7wHCaTunGCjV5CIxI_5Z-I1Tk
15896983? ago
Kristine Marcy McConnell is No. 1. She is the sister of Field McConnell, who is a YT whistleblower for satanic ritual abuse, and denounces his sister and agrees that she should pay for her evils. He also closely ties his sister to Hillary Clinton and I see she’s also tied to the SES. The SES, I believe, is what is slow-walking getting anything out of the FBI/DOJ.
15894090? ago
They are luciferian.
Mormons they aren’t. Please don’t spead misinformation. Mormons are very loving and peaceful.
The Romneys will rot in hell.
15895746? ago
Mormons are a combination of Free Masonry and Judaism
15903551? ago
Yes.
15896550? ago
No, we're a restoration of the church that Jesus Christ set up during His ministry. It was necessary to restore that church because humanity had corrupted Christianity to such an extent.
If Freemasonry stole some symbols from the primitive church, it's logical that such symbols would be restored to their rightful place in Christ's restored church.
15901164? ago
I would have more respect for the LDS if only they would stop lying to people and themselves that they are the “restored church of Jesus Christ.” The whole thing is a facade to trick people into joining the church and then little by little indoctrinate them into something that is nothing near true Christianity. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan who on numerous occasions would tell stories about the supposed early Israelites after the evening meal as entertainment for his family. Even a church bishop admitted that the Book of Mormon was a false document after researching it, but placed his faith in the Doctrine and Covenants because he didn’t want to admit Mormonism is a made up religion just as Scientology is.
15903114? ago
Well to say otherwise would be the lie, because that's what we believe. Just because it runs counter to your beliefs doesn't make it a lie.
The rest of your comment is not true. Except maybe the bishop part, I don't know about that. There are tens of thousands of bishops and more former bishops. Wouldn't surprise me if you could find one who found issue with the Book of Mormon. But the Book of Mormon continues to withstand academic scrutiny, so I suspect this individual's viewpoints could be readily addressed.
15905647? ago
I’m trying to find the book he wrote. It was back in the late 1800’s. There hasn’t been any third-party academic scrutiny that I’m aware of that supports the BoM. Only biased research coming from within the LDS Church itself.
15905956? ago
Why is such research invalid? If it's academically rigorous it's every bit as valid as quality research originating outside the Church. Would you expect LDS academics to simply sit back and let the world prove their case for them? Just because it contradicts your viewpoint doesn't make it biased.
Here's a good place to start if one wanted to dig into LDS-affiliated academic efforts regarding the Book of Mormon: https://www.fairmormon.org/evidences/Category:Book_of_Mormon
All that said, the veracity of the Book of Mormon is best evaluated by reading it with a sincere heart then asking God if it's true. Once you have that witness from God, all the academic arguments are reduced to mere curiosities. I have received that witness.
The truth of the Book of Mormon proves the divinity of Joseph Smith's calling as a modern prophet.
The divinity of Joseph's calling proves the authenticity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Many people do not want to go down that road, so they try to discredit the Book of Mormon any way they can, including with intellectually disingenuous arguments. It's only wise to counter such efforts.
15907902? ago
I said it is biased. There is a vested interest in proving the BoM to be true, so any research done by the LDS is skewed towards that end rather than being objective. If all academic arguments are reduced to curiosities, then why bother doing anything to prove the Book of Mormon at all? Your argument is circular. When confronted with facts it’s common to discount it and cling to faith because faith, by its very nature, cannot be proven. So anything can be believed. Belief doesn’t make it fact. The Book of Mormon does not prove Joseph Smith’s divinity. L. Ron Hubbard wrote “Dianetics” and founded the Church of Scientology. Does that make him divine as well? What makes him any different than Joseph Smith? They both claim to be visited by someone who gave them instructions to follow. I’m not going to change your mind about any of this so this conversation is rather moot. If you’re told not to question something, but follow it blindly and trust your feelings (which the LDS do), then you are not using the intellect and wisdom that God gave you to evaluate things objectively to discover the truth. You are nothing more than a programmed drone.
15909065? ago
How do you know God exists? How do you know Jesus is your Savior? If an atheist demands you prove it academically, how do you respond? You might even entertain an academic argument, but in the end you KNOW what you know. This is how testimony of God works. To you and me, our belief in God and Christ are facts because God has provided us each the evidence of this truth, personally. We cannot transmit that proof to others because that's not how spiritual knowledge works.
The same principles can be applied to knowledge of the truth of the Book of Mormon, or any other source of higher truth. I don't have to give you evidence when God is perfectly capable and willing to give you that evidence Himself, if you ask for it in sincerity.
The only question you need to answer within yourself is whether you are a truth-seeker. If you're not, God won't force you into it. If you are... well, there is so much more available.
My belief is anything but blind. I have been to the dark side and back. I know this stuff because I have lived it in vivid technicolor. I understand the Gospel of Christ because I have been cleansed by the blood of the Son. I have been remolded and transformed by the Savior into a different person. Does blind faith and false belief have this power? Can the source of such power be false or evil?
I'll let you in on a little secret. /r/IAmVerySmart. Best I can measure it, my IQ's 138, which is above the 98th percentile, and I have a Mensa card to prove it. I'm a software developer by trade and am accustomed to building systems which require intricate and complex abstract thought. I have thought this stuff through very deeply, because I have that capacity.
And as grateful as I am for my intellectual gifts, it wasn't until I started listening to spiritual guidance - what you dismiss as "feelings" - that I began making any progress in my relationship with Christ. Oh, demand intellectual rigor all you like. Seek it out if that's what interests you. But in the end it won't avail you anything if you don't listen to that small, quiet voice of the Holy Spirit.
I hope this helps you understand how I KNOW that the Book of Mormon is true and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God's true and living church. I've lived it, I've analyzed it, I've sought and searched, and most importantly, God told me. You will not shake me; only God could do that.
15894946? ago
Mormons believe in polygamy. Fuck your Mormon love and peace!
15896518? ago
We don't, because God directed us to stop. But you need to dig in to your Bible a bit more; the great patriarchs were all polygamous. Did this make Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, among many other holy men, evil?
15898221? ago
Yeah, God directed you to stop right after the government made it illegal. Kek.
15898279? ago
Yeah, pretty much. Here's the official Church declaration on the topic: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1?lang=eng
The pertinent part comes from an address by President Woodruff:
In other words, President Woodruff was quite willing to obey the Lord's prior commandments and keep the practice going in defiance of the government's actions. The Lord showed him that the consequences of this course for His church would be calamitous, and it was therefore within God's wisdom to discontinue the practice. We obeyed.
This is why a living prophet of God is required on the Earth. The Gospel of Christ does not change, but its application must be continually adapted to a changing world. A primary role of a living prophet is to guide that adaptation.
15895485? ago
Dude that's so old it isn't even funny. Mormon's are all about the USA and family. I'm not a Mormon, but dated one years ago. Cool people.
Do you play with snakes? Because some Christians do. Educate yourself.
15894854? ago
PLEASE: Read about the Pace Memorandum
The Kimballs and the Clintons are tied to trafficking in DR. Those orphans that Laura Silsby had? Headed to DREAM Center sponsored by the Mormon family, the Kimballs. BEFORE THAT, they were killing time at a place rented to them by a catholic priest who would watch over them until their new place was built.
The Pace Memorandum shows the entire state of Utah was covering up children being ritually abused IN CHURCH FACILITIES. Dozens of children across multiple states spoke to the same thing.
15897986? ago
I just read the Pace memorandum. It shows no such thing.
He was raising an alarm bell that the Deep State stuff we know about - MK Ultra, RSA, etc. had infiltrated the Church. He attempted to quantify it, buy by no means did he say anything approaching "the entire state of Utah was covering up children being ritually abused." You're blatantly misrepresenting the document.
We have our share of scumbags, and I'm certain we've been infiltrated to some degree by Satanists, just as has every other major organization in the world. But we have no cultural tolerance for such bad actors and root them out as quickly as possible once discovered.
15905379? ago
What kind of fucking loser are you?
http://magaimg.net/img/6yrv.png
Re-read the edit and have a look at this TEXT FROM THE PACE MEMO THAT YOU CLAIMED TO HAVE READ.
15906021? ago
The excerpt above says nothing approaching "the entire state of Utah was covering up children being ritually abused."
I am the best kind of loser: One who proves my case without resorting to insults.
15906320? ago
Switched the goal posts, you did.
How would a cover up of the Pace Memorandum have been initiated while it was being written?
15906652? ago
I did not move the goal posts. I've quoted you throughout: "the entire state of Utah was covering up children being ritually abused"
You have yet to show where the Pace memorandum suggests what you state. Therefore, you are misrepresenting the content.
Now YOU'RE moving the goalposts by switching to the idea of a cover-up. Sorry, I'm tired of playing this game with you.
15916828? ago
You moved the goal posts from 'does not say anything like that" to "was not a state wide cover up" which could only have happened after the memorandum was written.
Maybe do some fact checking. 60 kids report the same type of child abuse across multiple states and the state of Utah investigated for 30 months and found nothing. found nothing.
15922033? ago
I can't speak to that. Corruption is everywhere, and we know these monsters cover for each other. But you're using that to condemn an entire population.
It's analogous to saying that America IS the Great Satan because we've been infiltrated by the Cabal. Is it fair? Or is it hyperbole and overgeneralization to the point of insult?
15925411? ago
I'm not. I'm stating that it is clear the church has been infiltrated for a long time.
If you want to wax intellectual on culpability well... is a Catholic supporting pedophilia by paying an organization that is industrial scale child rape?
15927217? ago
The difference is that the Catholic Church has developed a culture that tolerates bad actors. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has not.
15905206? ago
Read it again.
Basically, you're wrong. Also, the additional documents referenced are the what the cover up is trying to protect.
15895312? ago
^This guy knows.
15897990? ago
No, he doesn't. He misrepresented what the memorandum said. Source: I just read it.
15894175? ago
High level Mormons are Luciferian, of course the actual Christians who fall for the nicer aspects of Mormonism don't do the research into the real history of how the cult was created. Their prophet was an evil piece of shit who compulsively lied, cheated, and stealed. A cult like that obviously attracts psychopaths hungry for power.
15917298? ago
Any Mormon whose gone through the Temple is defacto Luciferian. They just don't know it, nor are taught that the concept of being a God is defacto Luciferianism. The most blind and naive group one will ever meet.
They are not allowed to even read their own history, and if they do, it MUST be from ONLY church approved sources.
15897875? ago
What an awful thing to say. Have you listened to one of their conferences? They’re all about serving one another and inspiring to do good. Nothing could be further from the truth than your accusation.
I know many of them and they’re the kindest, warmest people I know. They serve in demanding calling without compensation and they spend time trying to help others.
“By their fruits shall ya know them.”
15897955? ago
Thank you for speaking up, Anon.
We have our share of scumbags. But most of us really do try to be disciples of Christ.
15895185? ago
This is true, most people don't realize that Mormonism is setup like a masonic sect, the higher up you go, the more "theology" you get revealed to you.
The very fact that Mormonism added to the KJB when that is explicitly warned against in Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
Scripture is closed. Mormonism added to it.
15900002? ago
I'm not a biblical scholar but when "The Book of Revelation" was written the Bible hadn't been compiled into a single book and The Bible has had books added to and subtracted from ' The Apocryphal Texts" as well so the Bible has been altered plenty of times!
15900277? ago
It has and each of those decisions should be scrutinized. Some books were omitted in KJB, were any of them significant? It matters even if it is impossible to ever know the exact intent of God for holy scripture. Even the words chosen from the original Greek should be scrutinized, if for no other reason than to learn about how a translation can shape an understanding.
15900324? ago
Agreed! The only thing I was pointing out was that the Book of Revelation was a separate book when the oft quoted scripture was written!
15896445? ago
Revelation 22:18 refers to modifications to Revelation. This is proven by the fact that John wrote more of the Bible AFTER he wrote Revelation, and also by the fact that the Bible didn't exist when Revelation was written as it was compiled many years later.
Now that this misconception is cleared up, I challenge you to point to where God has ever said He's done speaking to His children.
15898053? ago
Reread what you just wrote.
After John wrote revelation, an angel would appear to another person at a much later date and cause him to add to a book that was itself a politically motivated form of the scripture (King Henry VIII wanted his divorce)?
Not only is the book of Mormon added to Revelation, it is added to Protestantism itself, and the whims of John Henry Smith and King Henry VIII.
As KJB says, by their fruits you shall no them. Well, people reject polygamy but the founder of Mormonism took wives. Now compare his life to that of John the prophet of Revelation, who witnessed the crucifixion even as the others fled.
Divinely revealed text is not a simply a matter of God talking, it is the living word, it is part of God himself. The consequences of getting this wrong are too great to shrug of the strangeness of John Henry Smith's account of his private revelation or his subsequent life of polygamy which is no longer practiced by most of Mormonism.
The expression of marriage is paramount to the identity of Christianity, this is not a secondary issue. Either John Henry Smith's life is exemplary or Mormonism is false, and the revelation of Christ, as the bride groom, informs us that the age of the patriarchs, and the permission for multiple wives has ended, as also expressed by Christ himself to the divorce happy Pharisees in Mark 10:2-8:
Two become one. The expression of marriage is paramount to the Christian identity and manifestly different in the life of the prophet of Mormonism.
15898142? ago
The Book of Mormon is not added to Protestantism; we reject Protestantism entirely. A core claim of ours is that Christianity had lost its way through apostasy, in spite of the well-meaning efforts of reformers such as Luther and Calvin, and that a wholesale restoration was necessary.
Likewise, parts of the Bible had been lost through corruption and with them key parts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Therefore, new revelation was required to restore these truths in preparation for the End Times. This is why God inspired the creation of the Book of Mormon - a project which started around 600 BC, by the way.
The great patriarchs were all polygamists. Were they not holy men? Did they not practice it before the advent of the Law of Moses? Therefore, the idea of polygamy under God's direction is not in and of itself evil. We no longer practice it because God directed us to stop.
Frankly, I don't fully understand the reasons behind polygamy, other than what the Lord Himself told Jacob in the Book of Mormon (Jacob 2):
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
So I don't pretend to understand the apparent contradiction. But it's alright, I know that Jesus is my Savior and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him. All other understanding will come in time. But He does say that He will command polygamy from time to time if it is His purpose to "raise up seed." This explains why He authorized it for the patriarchs, and I can only likewise assume that it was the Lord's will to build up the early Church quickly in order to advance His purposes.
Who is this John Henry Smith of whom you speak?
15900228? ago
True, that should read Joseph Smith. John Henry Smith came later. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_Smith
My question is, my misnomer aside, why, centuries after Christ, centuries of a monogamous marriage why reintroduce the time of the patriarchs?
This is a matter of eternal salvation. And marriage is intrinsic to the Christian (read post-patriarchal) identity. If the founder of Mormonism got polygamy wrong, that is not inconsequential. Is that not fair? Marriage expresses the absolute truth of God's desire for his creature, as Christ is the bride groom to his church.
Anyways, I don't mean any rudeness. I wrote my response very late and I apologize if I am coming across as rude to you personally.
I will review my Mormon history so I can speak more accurately on the matter.
Peace
15903412? ago
Well, like I said I don't understand polygamy fully. I think I would personally have a very hard time living it. But when God commands, you obey.
The best explanation I can offer is the one above in Jacob 2:30. Other more erudite members may be able to do better.
If you read the contemporary histories, you find that Joseph himself had a terrible time accepting the commandment. He did NOT like the idea. He reports that he had to be commanded four separate times over several years. In the end, he records, the Lord finally sent an angel with an ultimatum - accept the commandment or the angel was commanded to slay him.
A test of faith? Abraham was commanded to kill his son. A means to "raise seed" in preparation for the Lord's kingdom? The House of Israel's influence and promises spread across the globe and have reverberated throughout history. I don't know the purpose of the commandment. But I reiterate that I know Jesus is my Savior and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him. That faith in the Savior is my guide star and demonstrates to me that the Church cannot be evil, for no evil thing leads to Christ. All other understanding will come in time.
I guess my only point is that God's ways are higher than our ways, and sometimes we're expected to obey without understanding.
No rudeness was perceived. God bless!
15895461? ago
Bill Schnoebelen has a lot of lectures about his time in the Mormon church. He describes it as being a Masonic Luciferian organization. Take it with a grain of salt though.
15896465? ago
A dumptruck-sized block of salt would be necessary. The whole video is a string of lies and half-truths.
Going to an anti-Mormon for the truth about us is like going to the MSM for the truth about Trump.
15894961? ago
They're NOT actual Christians.
THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD.
They play word games to obscure the fact that they don't believe Jesus is God, but they don't believe Jesus is God. They also trick you by plastering pics of Jesus all over their marketing materials...but thats just so they can try to recruit ignorant Christians.
There's room for SOME disagreements on details among Christians....but to be considered a Christian, shouldn't you have to at least believe Jesus is God?
15895528? ago
They also are tought they too can become gods themselves.
15898888? ago
Yes, and be gods of their very own planets in the afterlife.
15896385? ago
Sure. There's got to be some purpose to this life. How about seeing if God's children can actually grow up to be like Him?
The choices you make demonstrate whether you actually want that.
15906161? ago
Your following false teachings friend, I would suggest converting to Christianity & repenting. Straight from Christ himself: "For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 43:10-11 "Understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." So we should understand God is not making other gods with a small g. Anyone who comes along and says you too will be as god is saying exactly what the Devil said to Eve. May God bless you friend & shine his light on you. Godspeed on your journey.
15906390? ago
Thanks, but I'm already a Christian. Jesus is my Savior and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints led me to Him.
Your concern is appreciated but unnecessary. I enjoy a daily walk with Christ.
I'll pose a counterpoint to you: What exactly is the Bible talking about when it speaks of inheriting the Kingdom of God? We happen to take that promise literally. How could this happen if not for the possibility to choose a path that leads us to becoming like our Father?
15909569? ago
Fair enough. I will leave you with a single passage from the Holy Bible, this again is Lord Christ Jesus's speaking. And what he is speaking of is false Messiahs, friend ask yourself one question could there be more Jesus?...
Mark 13:6 "Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many."
15910232? ago
Indeed. That's why one must go directly to God for confirmation of the truth.
15896637? ago
It’s so funny Mormons are so quick to jump on any other cult.... but so fast to defend their beloved church .
15896750? ago
I don't know what you mean by "jump on any other cult". Of course we defend, it stands to reason. We think it's true.
15895450? ago
Jesus is the son of God, not God.
15900645? ago
Jesus is the Son of God and God. Jesus was NOT created, as the Mormons believe. He always was, same as the Father and Holy Spirit....In fact, Jesus --as taught in the KJV-- created the world.
15898903? ago
Christians believe both. It’s convoluted.
15895045? ago
They do believe in Jesus. You just believe different things about Jesus. All christians play word games. My god your god... blah, blah.
15906219? ago
Straight from Jesus himself: "For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 43:10-11 "Understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." So we should understand God is not making other gods with a small g. Anyone who comes along and says you too will be as god is saying exactly what the Devil said to Eve.
15912770? ago
And yet all you Christians have different interpretations of the same Jesus from the same bible. So many different Gods from one book. How do you know which one is right?//////
15895345? ago
Word game alert. Thanks for the demonstration.
I didn't say they don't "believe in Jesus". I said they don't believe He's God.
And it matters WAY more than your too-casual "you just believe different things about Jesus". When the "different" is the Mormon doesn't believe Jesus is God and the Christian--pretty much by definition--believes Jesus IS God? You worship a different God than Christians do.
TWO weasel-worded dishonest statements, calculated to mislead. Again, thanks for the demonstration.
15896403? ago
True, we worship the Christ as described in the Bible; most Christian denominations worship the Christ as defined by creeds and humanistic philosophy.
There's a reason we're classified as "restorationists."
15895672? ago
The mormon believes Jesus is the son of God, acting as the God of this world on his behalf. They believe in three Gods. Father, son, holy ghost. So I guess different, but they believe in the same bible, the same Jesus in the bible. They just interpret him differently than most christian religions. But honestly, it seems to me that all Christian religions have their own version of this Jesus from the same bible anyway. That is all I'm saying.
And in response to your assumption that I believe in a different God than Christians. I don't believe in Gods.
15900894? ago
You are claiming now to NOT be a Mormon, I'll take you at your word....but you seem to have struck upon some of their favorite misdirections in hiding their actual beliefs about Jesus from potential recruits....
Look, "they" believe Jesus was CREATED. By God. They believe that Satan is Jesus' BROTHER. That would make Satan "God" too, wouldn't it? No definition of God that I've ever seen defines Him as a CREATED being. If Jesus is created, who is He in relation to His "Creator"? A "created" God is --conceptually-- a contradiction in terms.
15903569? ago
Okay... seems like you're using word play now. No, I'm not a mormon. Mormon beliefs are a bit ridiculous IMO, but I feel that way about all versions of God I have studied.
Mormon's believe Jesus and you and every other human is a son or daughter of God. But Jesus was the only "perfect" child, given the powers of God on earth. Mormons believe Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. That God gave him power to act as his proxy and created the earth as he was commanded by God to do so and God gave him dominion over it. They believe God sent him to earth (New Testament) to die for the sins of mankind. Mormons believe satan was also a son of God that was cast out. They view him more as a God of hell, who has no power over God. In reference to "created" yeah, they believe Jesus and all other sons daughters were created by God.
Probably what makes so many Christians so mad about the way mormons view God, Jesus, whatever, is they believe good humans can some day progress to the status of a God and do exactly the same thing God did. They think it is all a cycle.
You may have large differences in what you believe about Jesus, but that's the same with all Christian religions IMO. It is the same bible you read. The same Jesus in it. You just all interpret him different. So claiming mormons don't believe in Jesus, when it Jesus is literally a part of every belief system they have, and the their only way to God, is just word play.
15903822? ago
You don't understand "word games"
What we believe about Jesus is THE determinant factor ....we believe He is GOD. You keep saying that Mormons "believe in Jesus", as if thats akin to believing He is God. Its also "How to trick Christians into believing Mormons are also Christians 101".....those slick lies are TAUGHT to Mormons as recruiting agitprop to use against unsophisticated Christians.
You use way too much of that agitprop...I've changed my mind again....this "I'm not a Mormon myself, but I can tell that they're the same as any Christian denomination" routine is more obvious than you imagine.
15912816? ago
You imagine you know me or my history. You fool yourself into such thinking. I just call bullshit when I see it. You christians, mormons, whatever, love to divide. I am an atheist who cares not what you or others believe. I just hate division and that is what all of you seem to do. US vs. THEM. It accomplishes nothing, but division. Nice try though.
15913923? ago
Uh-huh. Prolly still mad about the Inquisitions, too.
Of course, the officially atheist governments of the 20th Century managed to slaughter over 100 million ....why don't you go nag them?
15915789? ago
I said nothing of any of those things. Continue with your assumptions about others though. Just shows your close-mindedness.
15893913? ago
Hard core mormons practice polygamy and incest too.
15896729? ago
FLDS do, there's a lot of evil there.
They are in no way affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
15893781? ago
Is Jennifer Smart involved?
15893695? ago
https://www.bitchute.com/video/otuGgZbGT0Gi
15893808? ago
404?
15893626? ago
I have been posting that, and people get really aggressive. Must be a lot of new people around...
15895927? ago
lots of mormon qtards don't want to hear anything antimormon or antichristian
15896568? ago
It's not that we don't want to hear it, it's that we've heard it all. It gets frustrating to make the same points again and again to a world that seems quite intent on not listening.
15893862? ago
Well no, there are actually a lot of shills on this board lately, especially tonight. They reply almost instantly criticizing everything we do here.
15896680? ago
A lot of shills is an understatement this place is nuts lately lol
15893580? ago
FLDS are 100% child traffickers. Research the "Lost Boys", teen boys that get kicked out of the polygamist communities on trumped up charges due to the older men not wanting to compete for the women.
15896582? ago
FLDS, I totally agree with you. There is a lot of evil there.
They are in no way affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
15898672? ago
No way affiliated? Being a Break off and practicing the cult as originally intended isn't "affiliated"?
If there is a problem with your fundamentalists, there is a problem with your fundamentals.
15903492? ago
What do you expect us to do? Storm their compounds? They are excommunicated and disassociated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They are disavowed as apostates. That's as far as the Church's earthly authority permits.
The rest is a matter for law enforcement officials, with whom we fully cooperate.
15921713? ago
Yes, we do expect the authorities to storm their compounds and remove children from a situation where they are being raped and molested. Many who have escaped the compounds have reported the physical, sexual, and mental abuse that goes on there. Why are the compounds protected? Who is protecting them? Authorities who agree with or don't exactly object to what goes on there.
15922122? ago
Authorities, sure. Go for it. I'll be a cheerleader.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has no such authority. Our punitive options end at excommunication.
15904162? ago
In terms of religion and the way it was founded, I have way more respect for the FLDS by sticking to their principles than the cult-lite of Utah PR bullshit LDS sellout disguised as revelation.
But it's all shit.
15904486? ago
Then you don't understand the doctrine. FLDS and RLDS doctrine has very little similarity to the founding principles of the Church. They've changed it to suit their purposes. It's the exact opposite of "sticking to their principles."
We've altered our application of the Gospel of Christ over the years as societal changes necessitate, but the principles have not and will not budge.
15909993? ago
Changed it!? YOU are the ones who change on a dime. D&C 132! My god this is mental gymnastics.
You do understand Joseph Smith had 34+ wives, 11 of which were already married when he married them? Who changed the doctrine? Not the FLDS.
15910194? ago
You need to learn more. I don't have the time today to teach you.
15911049? ago
You need to learn how to be intellectually honest for once in your life. Dropped down to 2 hours on Sundays for church instead of 3. Lowered the age of missions to 18 for boys and 19 for girls. Sister Missionaries can now wear pants!!! WOW!! I'm sold. SUCH REVELATION!! Literally just changed the Endowment....AGAIN! I'm shocked...I'm not. Removed the penalties, changed the washings and anointings, initiatory work, no more adamic language in the prayer circle, hell, there is not an ordinance in the Temple you clowns HAVEN'T changed, maybe baptisms for the dead. Your church is a joke. It's NOTHING BUT CHANGE. Eternal and endless be his name...but never gets it right the first time.. Don't even get me started on your Wentworth Letter and the edits put in to create your articles of faith.
You CHANGE THE ORDINANCE, IT'S NOT THE SAME! What's next? Sprinkling at baptism???
You don't have time to teach me, as well you can't, for I have forgotten more about your religion than you will ever learn.
15911562? ago
Nah, you Googled stuff and believed what you read. Everything you've listed is an example of application, not doctrine. Except the parts that are not true.
To paraphrase a great man, anti-Mormons know so much that isn't so.
You sure are getting worked up over this. Why so mad? Just curious.
15912649? ago
Fuck off with "application". You have zero power in your priesthood. Your prophet, seers, and revelators don't. You have lower health rates in your hospitals even with your priests and missionaries offering blessings nonstop as compared to other hospitals. Reconcile that.
Your JST's literally contradict places in your book of Mormon. You were racist up until 1978. Research "Aunt Jane Austen Manning".
Why did Joseph bang Fanny Alger in 1831 and the polygamy revelation showed up 1836? Reconcile that... you can't.
You couldn't cure a ham with your "so-called" priesthood.
Research your Lamanite project.. trying to turn Native American children WHITE by taking them off the reservation and putting them with Mormon families. You can't make this shit up!
But you do you, but as you keep sending your naive youth out to propagandized for two years, you will get your asses called out.
15913194? ago
You didn't answer my question.
Well, yeah, you can. People have been doing it for a long time. There's a pretty good library of anti-Mormon fiction out there by now. That's what happens when Satan wages war. Truth will prevail in the end, regardless whether you or I get mad.
Please, keep throwing out invective. I'm having a ball! You're actually getting more angry than most anti-Mormons I've dealt with. It's fascinating. It definitely proves that you're trying to prove something to yourself. I'm just curious to find out what that is.
15917128? ago
fiction...
Fuck you. You can't answer a single thing you hubristic motherfucker.
Oh God hear the words of my mouth..lowers arms repeats 3 times This faggot is truly a faggot.
15921946? ago
I can answer it all. It's not worth the effort because you aren't here to learn, you're here to argue and insult. That's not the kind of discussion I'm interested in.
But you're not boring! Got any more?
15922359? ago
Would you like some tokens? Priesthood signs? The Sun? Sure sign of the nail? Power upon you and your posterity?
You can buy anything in this world with money. Have you any money?
15923011? ago
Ooh, nice. You know how to use Google.
More! I want to know what else Google says
15899175? ago
So be cause a group broke off taking select beliefs and practices to go-it on their own, that indicts the original beliefs and the main group? Isn’t that how most Christian religions came to be - as “protesting” Catholicism? You’re logic needs some help anon. And please define “cult” for us. That is a pretty weak attack to use against a mainstream, world-wide Christian religion.
15899287? ago
Mainstream... ok.
You can buy anything in this world with money, have you any money?
15903452? ago
We have sufficient for our needs.
15893514? ago
Follow the wives.
15900207? ago
Most of the time they are men
15898257? ago
Half-related: I read the book "Secrets and Wives" by Sanjiv Bhattacharya several years ago. It's really good on-the-scene investigative journalism and covers the different aspects of the polygamy-side of Mormonism. He interviewed children that escaped from sick cults as well as families of "modern" polygamists who live upper-middle-class lifestyles and send their daughters to school. He also detailed the sci-fi stuff like becoming a god and running a planet. Fairly unbiased and decent book overall.
15895405? ago
I thought of that, too, but looking at her Wikipedia article, she looks to be just a housewife with a lot of kids, though she hurt Mitt's race for Governor against Ted Kennedy by pretending to be poor while they lived off inheritance.