No, we're a restoration of the church that Jesus Christ set up during His ministry. It was necessary to restore that church because humanity had corrupted Christianity to such an extent.
If Freemasonry stole some symbols from the primitive church, it's logical that such symbols would be restored to their rightful place in Christ's restored church.
I would have more respect for the LDS if only they would stop lying to people and themselves that they are the “restored church of Jesus Christ.” The whole thing is a facade to trick people into joining the church and then little by little indoctrinate them into something that is nothing near true Christianity. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan who on numerous occasions would tell stories about the supposed early Israelites after the evening meal as entertainment for his family. Even a church bishop admitted that the Book of Mormon was a false document after researching it, but placed his faith in the Doctrine and Covenants because he didn’t want to admit Mormonism is a made up religion just as Scientology is.
Well to say otherwise would be the lie, because that's what we believe. Just because it runs counter to your beliefs doesn't make it a lie.
The rest of your comment is not true. Except maybe the bishop part, I don't know about that. There are tens of thousands of bishops and more former bishops. Wouldn't surprise me if you could find one who found issue with the Book of Mormon. But the Book of Mormon continues to withstand academic scrutiny, so I suspect this individual's viewpoints could be readily addressed.
I’m trying to find the book he wrote. It was back in the late 1800’s. There hasn’t been any third-party academic scrutiny that I’m aware of that supports the BoM. Only biased research coming from within the LDS Church itself.
Why is such research invalid? If it's academically rigorous it's every bit as valid as quality research originating outside the Church. Would you expect LDS academics to simply sit back and let the world prove their case for them? Just because it contradicts your viewpoint doesn't make it biased.
All that said, the veracity of the Book of Mormon is best evaluated by reading it with a sincere heart then asking God if it's true. Once you have that witness from God, all the academic arguments are reduced to mere curiosities. I have received that witness.
The truth of the Book of Mormon proves the divinity of Joseph Smith's calling as a modern prophet.
The divinity of Joseph's calling proves the authenticity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Many people do not want to go down that road, so they try to discredit the Book of Mormon any way they can, including with intellectually disingenuous arguments. It's only wise to counter such efforts.
I said it is biased. There is a vested interest in proving the BoM to be true, so any research done by the LDS is skewed towards that end rather than being objective. If all academic arguments are reduced to curiosities, then why bother doing anything to prove the Book of Mormon at all? Your argument is circular. When confronted with facts it’s common to discount it and cling to faith because faith, by its very nature, cannot be proven. So anything can be believed. Belief doesn’t make it fact. The Book of Mormon does not prove Joseph Smith’s divinity. L. Ron Hubbard wrote “Dianetics” and founded the Church of Scientology. Does that make him divine as well? What makes him any different than Joseph Smith? They both claim to be visited by someone who gave them instructions to follow. I’m not going to change your mind about any of this so this conversation is rather moot. If you’re told not to question something, but follow it blindly and trust your feelings (which the LDS do), then you are not using the intellect and wisdom that God gave you to evaluate things objectively to discover the truth. You are nothing more than a programmed drone.
How do you know God exists? How do you know Jesus is your Savior? If an atheist demands you prove it academically, how do you respond? You might even entertain an academic argument, but in the end you KNOW what you know. This is how testimony of God works. To you and me, our belief in God and Christ are facts because God has provided us each the evidence of this truth, personally. We cannot transmit that proof to others because that's not how spiritual knowledge works.
The same principles can be applied to knowledge of the truth of the Book of Mormon, or any other source of higher truth. I don't have to give you evidence when God is perfectly capable and willing to give you that evidence Himself, if you ask for it in sincerity.
The only question you need to answer within yourself is whether you are a truth-seeker. If you're not, God won't force you into it. If you are... well, there is so much more available.
My belief is anything but blind. I have been to the dark side and back. I know this stuff because I have lived it in vivid technicolor. I understand the Gospel of Christ because I have been cleansed by the blood of the Son. I have been remolded and transformed by the Savior into a different person. Does blind faith and false belief have this power? Can the source of such power be false or evil?
I'll let you in on a little secret. /r/IAmVerySmart. Best I can measure it, my IQ's 138, which is above the 98th percentile, and I have a Mensa card to prove it. I'm a software developer by trade and am accustomed to building systems which require intricate and complex abstract thought. I have thought this stuff through very deeply, because I have that capacity.
And as grateful as I am for my intellectual gifts, it wasn't until I started listening to spiritual guidance - what you dismiss as "feelings" - that I began making any progress in my relationship with Christ. Oh, demand intellectual rigor all you like. Seek it out if that's what interests you. But in the end it won't avail you anything if you don't listen to that small, quiet voice of the Holy Spirit.
I hope this helps you understand how I KNOW that the Book of Mormon is true and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God's true and living church. I've lived it, I've analyzed it, I've sought and searched, and most importantly, God told me. You will not shake me; only God could do that.
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15894090? ago
They are luciferian.
Mormons they aren’t. Please don’t spead misinformation. Mormons are very loving and peaceful.
The Romneys will rot in hell.
15895746? ago
Mormons are a combination of Free Masonry and Judaism
15896550? ago
No, we're a restoration of the church that Jesus Christ set up during His ministry. It was necessary to restore that church because humanity had corrupted Christianity to such an extent.
If Freemasonry stole some symbols from the primitive church, it's logical that such symbols would be restored to their rightful place in Christ's restored church.
15901164? ago
I would have more respect for the LDS if only they would stop lying to people and themselves that they are the “restored church of Jesus Christ.” The whole thing is a facade to trick people into joining the church and then little by little indoctrinate them into something that is nothing near true Christianity. Joseph Smith was a known charlatan who on numerous occasions would tell stories about the supposed early Israelites after the evening meal as entertainment for his family. Even a church bishop admitted that the Book of Mormon was a false document after researching it, but placed his faith in the Doctrine and Covenants because he didn’t want to admit Mormonism is a made up religion just as Scientology is.
15903114? ago
Well to say otherwise would be the lie, because that's what we believe. Just because it runs counter to your beliefs doesn't make it a lie.
The rest of your comment is not true. Except maybe the bishop part, I don't know about that. There are tens of thousands of bishops and more former bishops. Wouldn't surprise me if you could find one who found issue with the Book of Mormon. But the Book of Mormon continues to withstand academic scrutiny, so I suspect this individual's viewpoints could be readily addressed.
15905647? ago
I’m trying to find the book he wrote. It was back in the late 1800’s. There hasn’t been any third-party academic scrutiny that I’m aware of that supports the BoM. Only biased research coming from within the LDS Church itself.
15905956? ago
Why is such research invalid? If it's academically rigorous it's every bit as valid as quality research originating outside the Church. Would you expect LDS academics to simply sit back and let the world prove their case for them? Just because it contradicts your viewpoint doesn't make it biased.
Here's a good place to start if one wanted to dig into LDS-affiliated academic efforts regarding the Book of Mormon: https://www.fairmormon.org/evidences/Category:Book_of_Mormon
All that said, the veracity of the Book of Mormon is best evaluated by reading it with a sincere heart then asking God if it's true. Once you have that witness from God, all the academic arguments are reduced to mere curiosities. I have received that witness.
The truth of the Book of Mormon proves the divinity of Joseph Smith's calling as a modern prophet.
The divinity of Joseph's calling proves the authenticity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Many people do not want to go down that road, so they try to discredit the Book of Mormon any way they can, including with intellectually disingenuous arguments. It's only wise to counter such efforts.
15907902? ago
I said it is biased. There is a vested interest in proving the BoM to be true, so any research done by the LDS is skewed towards that end rather than being objective. If all academic arguments are reduced to curiosities, then why bother doing anything to prove the Book of Mormon at all? Your argument is circular. When confronted with facts it’s common to discount it and cling to faith because faith, by its very nature, cannot be proven. So anything can be believed. Belief doesn’t make it fact. The Book of Mormon does not prove Joseph Smith’s divinity. L. Ron Hubbard wrote “Dianetics” and founded the Church of Scientology. Does that make him divine as well? What makes him any different than Joseph Smith? They both claim to be visited by someone who gave them instructions to follow. I’m not going to change your mind about any of this so this conversation is rather moot. If you’re told not to question something, but follow it blindly and trust your feelings (which the LDS do), then you are not using the intellect and wisdom that God gave you to evaluate things objectively to discover the truth. You are nothing more than a programmed drone.
15909065? ago
How do you know God exists? How do you know Jesus is your Savior? If an atheist demands you prove it academically, how do you respond? You might even entertain an academic argument, but in the end you KNOW what you know. This is how testimony of God works. To you and me, our belief in God and Christ are facts because God has provided us each the evidence of this truth, personally. We cannot transmit that proof to others because that's not how spiritual knowledge works.
The same principles can be applied to knowledge of the truth of the Book of Mormon, or any other source of higher truth. I don't have to give you evidence when God is perfectly capable and willing to give you that evidence Himself, if you ask for it in sincerity.
The only question you need to answer within yourself is whether you are a truth-seeker. If you're not, God won't force you into it. If you are... well, there is so much more available.
My belief is anything but blind. I have been to the dark side and back. I know this stuff because I have lived it in vivid technicolor. I understand the Gospel of Christ because I have been cleansed by the blood of the Son. I have been remolded and transformed by the Savior into a different person. Does blind faith and false belief have this power? Can the source of such power be false or evil?
I'll let you in on a little secret. /r/IAmVerySmart. Best I can measure it, my IQ's 138, which is above the 98th percentile, and I have a Mensa card to prove it. I'm a software developer by trade and am accustomed to building systems which require intricate and complex abstract thought. I have thought this stuff through very deeply, because I have that capacity.
And as grateful as I am for my intellectual gifts, it wasn't until I started listening to spiritual guidance - what you dismiss as "feelings" - that I began making any progress in my relationship with Christ. Oh, demand intellectual rigor all you like. Seek it out if that's what interests you. But in the end it won't avail you anything if you don't listen to that small, quiet voice of the Holy Spirit.
I hope this helps you understand how I KNOW that the Book of Mormon is true and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God's true and living church. I've lived it, I've analyzed it, I've sought and searched, and most importantly, God told me. You will not shake me; only God could do that.