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think- ago

I'm not getting the connection between Chelbin and Rachel Chandler, though

Chelbin's photos seem to depict many Eastern European children / teenagers. A possibility would be that she takes pics, and someone in the US decides which of the children depicted will be trafficked.

(mere speculation of course)

Chandler runs a modeling agency = many of her models look like trafficking victims. There are many established lines of trafficking from Eastern Europe to the US, partly via Mexico / South America (remember Epstein).

Vindicator ago

There are many established lines of trafficking from Eastern Europe to the US

Makes me wonder how much Melania knows.

think- ago

You can be sure that she knows a couple of things. Makes me wonder how she felt when they socialized with Epstein.

It was not only obvious that he was into girls, 'many of them are on the younger side', it seems to have been obvious too that he got girls from Eastern countries, and kept them at his NY town house. I recall reading that someone thought it was totally weird that so many girls from Eastern Europe were at this parties (the kind of parties Prince Andrew attended).

Vindicator ago

when they socialized with Epstein

Melania socialized with Epstein? Links?

think- ago

Err....@Vindicator? There are photos of Epstein with Trump and Melania. You have seen them. Melania's phone number is in his little black book (IIRC), together with lots of phone numbers of Trump and the Mar-a-Lago staff. Since he was a Mar-A-Lago member.

Do you want me to do a post with photos of the occasions when Trump and Melania were photographed with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell?

Vindicator ago

Sure. I've never seen them. I'm assuming that was after it came out that he was trafficking kids?

think- ago

That was during the time when Trump said Epstein was a 'terrific guy' and acknowledged that many of Epstein's women 'are on the younger side'. :-)

Vindicator ago

So, long before the girl's mom went to the police and people found out he was a pedo.

think- ago

and people found out he was a pedo

LOL.

IIRC, Epstein's mansion is quite close to Mar-a-Lago. The mansion where he got massages from girls every day several times a day, and raped some of them.

Epstein was a member of Mar-A-Lago.

He and Ghislaine Maxwell felt so safe there, they even groomed one of Trump's towel girls.

Trump said many of Epstein's women were 'on the younger side'.

I think he didn't mean Ghislaine Maxwell when he was saying that. /s

Imo, Trump knew perfectly well what Epstein did.

Trump might not be sophisticated, but he isn't an idiot. He would have been a bad club owner and businessman, if he hadn't known about Epstein's activities.

Do you think he never heard about the 'Lolita Express'?

kestrel9 ago

The father of the girl, a maintenance man at the hotel, felt so safe there that he got his sex trafficked, rape victim daughter a job as a towel girl, so that she could begin to heal, after her captor was indicted.

In Miami, the runaway became a captive of a 65-year-old sex trafficker, Ron Eppinger. For months, she says, she was sexually abused, kept in an apartment and pimped out to pedophiles. After his indictment in 2000 on trafficking charges, Roberts returned to West Palm Beach and tried to heal. That summer, when Roberts was 16, she said her father helped her get a job as a locker room attendant at the spa at Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, records show. Her father worked at the resort as a maintenance man.

kestrel9 ago

That's why he kicked Epstein out of Mar a Lago. https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2016/04/jeffrey-epstein-sex-slave-lawyer-donald-trump-accusations/ and yes I'm familiar with the Jane Doe lawsuit scam against Trump that turned out to be funded by a huge Bush supporter.

Wouldn't it be easier to start a 'Trump is a Pedo' sub instead of stomping all over people trying to do research? /s

think- ago

Wouldn't it be easier to start a 'Trump is a Pedo' sub instead of stomping all over people trying to do research? /s

Excuse me, it wasn't me who brought up Melania and what she possibly knew.

think- 3 points (+3|-0) 1.7 days ago (edited 1.7 days ago)

I'm not getting the connection between Chelbin and Rachel Chandler, though

Chelbin's photos seem to depict many Eastern European children / teenagers. A possibility would be that she takes pics, let's say in Russia, and someone in the US decides which of the children depicted will be trafficked.

(mere speculation of course)

Chandler runs a modeling agency = many of her models look like trafficking victims. There are many established lines of trafficking from Eastern Europe to the US, partly via Mexico / South America (remember Epstein).

Further speculation: Chandler might employ a bunch of scouts who take pics of Eastern European children and teenagers.

That was @Vindicator.

[–] Vindicator [S] 1 points (+1|-0) 1.5 days ago

There are many established lines of trafficking from Eastern Europe to the US

Makes me wonder how much Melania knows.

yes I'm familiar with the Jane Doe lawsuit scam against Trump that turned out to be funded by a huge Bush supporter.

I never mentioned that lawsuit here. In fact, I told @Vindicator either in a public comment or in a PM (not sure) that I read the witness statement, and don't believe that the accusations are legit.

Next time you might just want to ask me what I think about specific allegations against Trump.

Wouldn't it be easier to start a 'Trump is a Pedo' sub instead of stomping all over people trying to do research? /s

Nothing I posted on this thread wasn't connected to the OP. The only thing I am sorry about is that I self-censored myself for too long, and didn't dare to write anything that doesn't seem to be regarded as mainstream on this sub. That was clearly a mistake.

But we all learn from mistakes, so that will never happen again. :-)

kestrel9 ago

Why would you censor yourself, unleash it by all means. You think Trump is a complicit part of pedophile Epstein's grooming of young girls, you think Melania is implicit in it and you make snarky remarks about Ivanka having worked for Balazs (which btw, I did find the answer to your question, the truth is not so convicting and presumptive of some kind of guilt as your comment implied) and FWIW, Balazs said he didn't know Trump that well (2017 interview).

There's updates to one of the links you posted, but you're not interested in the real implications you make in light of what logic dictates, so why bother. Summary: In light of the updated info, you're squarely on the same side as Eric Holder, Adam Schiff and Obama. Go figure.

think- ago

you think Melania is implicit in it

No. I said Trump and Melania were socializing with Trump, that's all. I even explained that the reason why Epstein had Melania's phone number in his book was that he was a member of Mar-a-Lago.

which btw, I did find the answer to your question, the truth is not so convicting and presumptive of some kind of guilt as your comment implied

Well, would you have a link where you point that out?

FWIW, Balazs said he didn't know Trump that well (2017 interview).

Yes, I know. Where did I talk about Trump and Balazs?

There's updates to one of the links you posted, but you're not interested in the real implications you make in light of what logic dictates, so why bother.

Well, if you want to hold against me that I didn't post these updates (I'm not aware of), it might be good to post them.

In light of the updated info, you're squarely on the same side as Eric Holder, Adam Schiff and Obama. Go figure.

No, I can't 'figure', because you don't link to the updates.

And if you want to hold against me that I come to the same conclusions as other people about some topics or people or events: I don't care. I'm non-partisan. Sometimes I'm of the same opinon as the writer of a globalist news outlet (I still read The Guardian everyday, sometimes I'm of the same opinion as some ultra-conservatives.

Vindicator ago

How much time did Trump spend glad-handing guests at Mar-a-Lago?

When was the "Lolita Express" first talked about?

NOMOCHOMO ago

How much time did Trump spend glad-handing guests at Mar-a-Lago?

Who knows but we know he "glad-handed" Epstein @ Mar a Lago in 2000. That's the photo @think- is referencing

Donald Trump, Melania Knauss (now Melania Trump), Jeffrey Epstein, and Ghislaine Maxwell at the Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Florida on February 12, 2000. (Davidoff Studios/Getty Images)

https://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/JeffreyEpsteinDonaldTrumpBillClintonSexOffenderBearStearnsChildMolestation.jpg?w=1024&h=954&crop=1

Trump's statement about Epstein's "girls on the younger side" was in 2002

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

obviously Trump knew about Epstein's proclivities.

Who knows to what extent Trump or Melania knew about the entire pedo ring/brownstone, but I suspect they did.

Vindicator ago

Who knows but we know he "glad-handed" Epstein @ Mar a Lago in 2000. That's the photo @think- is referencing

Thanks for linking that. I hadn't seen that before. That looks like a bunch of people standing around for a large event, not the Trumps "socializing" with Epstein and Maxwell, which implies a deliberate seeking out of each other's company. What event was this?

Trump's statement about Epstein's "girls on the younger side" was in 2002

So Epstein was almost 50 years old at the time. Which means Trump (or any other normal person) could see him with a 22 year old and make that cradle robber jab. The article that quotes him that you linked refers twice to Epstein being a "ladies man", yet it never mentions involvement with young models, teens, or kids. I think it's a pretty big leap to claim Trump "obviously" knew about Epstein's "proclivities."

NOMOCHOMO ago

What event was this?

Not sure it happened on Feb 12, 2000 (still looking though)

So Epstein was almost 50 years old at the time. Which means Trump (or any other normal person) could see him with a 22 year old and make that cradle robber jab.

I disagree. Trump was 66/67 in 2002 when he made that comment. (Older than Epstein)

Also Trump met Melania when he was 52 and she was 25/26. So by that same standard Trump is into "young women"

IMO that isn't what he's referring to. He's saying both are into women, but Jeffrey likes them "on the younger side."

So either Trump knew, or he didn't and made a dig at Epstein for doing the same thing Trump is/was known for (dating young models)

Now even if Trump knew, I don't necessarily think he was involved.

Considering the NY mag interview was in 2002 and Epstein was soliciting at mar a lago a few years later, I could see Epstein interpreting Trump's quote as tacit approval, and beginning to recruit from mar a lago.

NOMOCHOMO ago

@think-

Only tagging you because I somewhat agree with you and want your input

(Not trying to create drama or beef, I think this is one of the most important pgate discussions that hasn't been resolved for many people)

think- ago

How much time did Trump spend glad-handing guests at Mar-a-Lago?

Epstein wasn't a guest, he was a member. And Trump has been known for hanging out there a lot.

When was the "Lolita Express" first talked about?

Surely a long time before that lawsuit.

Vindicator ago

"Been known to" and "surely" do not constitute evidence.

think- ago

I don't give a shit what you think it looks like. You started talking about Melania, not me.

But thank you for pointing out that begging to differ with you is now regarded as 'spamming'.

And if you think that I will censor myself when writing comments, you're wrong.

Remember your recent PM when you even asked me that I might want to re-consider the way I write comments on my own threads.

Yes?!

Vindicator ago

I'm not the one claiming the smart, beautiful and gracious First Lady of the United States is party to a pedo ring involving Trump and Epstein with zero evidence, just a bunch of completely illogical generalizations and unsourced assertions. No honorable American male who loves his country and has any balls is going to take that kind of bullshit in silence. Fuck off.

think- ago

is party to a pedo ring involving Trump and Epstein

Where did I say Trump was part of Epstein's pedo ring? Do you have to make things up now in order to attack me?

The only thing I said is that imo Trump knew was Epstein was doing, not that he was a part of it. Or even that Melania was part of it. rolls eyes

No honorable American male who loves his country and has any balls is going to take that kind of bullshit in silence. Fuck off.

LOL. I'm not the one going around and asking people to censor themselves. You can write what you want, whenever you want, whereever you want, and how much you want.

You are kindly welcome to do so on my threads, whenever you feel like it.

And no, I won't fuck off. I have the same right to be here as you have.

This is not your private website, remember?

Vindicator ago

Where did I say Trump was part of Epstein's pedo ring? Do you have to make things up now in order to attack me?

Playing the victim, now, after you deliberately created drama twice in this submission, huh. Okay. Here is what you said:

"You can be sure that she knows a couple of things. Makes me wonder how she felt when they socialized with Epstein.

It was not only obvious that he was into girls, 'many of them are on the younger side', it seems to have been obvious too that he got girls from Eastern countries, and kept them at his NY town house."

That is a clear statement by you that the Trumps were socializing with Epstein with full knowledge he was raping underage girls.

You then went on to implicate Trump because Epstein was a member of his club and Maxwell recruited one of the girls there. You claimed there were multiple photos of them socializing together with Epstein, and they were on such intimate terms that Melania's phone number was in his address book. Furthermore, when asked clarifying questions about when these things occurred in relation to the girl coming forward, you dismissed the idea the Trumps did not know he was trafficking kids when they attended gatherings he also attended.

You don't now get to play stupid and claim I am "making things up". You painted a picture of Melania, a model from Eastern Europe well acquainted with the pitfalls of her industry, as going along with child rape.

I'm not the one going around and asking people to censor themselves.

Where is that happening, exactly?

And no, I won't fuck off. I have the same right to be here as you have.

You misunderstood. I meant fuck you -- for dishonestly defaming my FLOTUS.

If I wanted you gone, I sure as hell wouldn't tell you to shut up. I don't know what crawled up your butt and died, but you are doing a fine job of destroying your reputation and relationships here all on your own. I've had several DMs asking me if your account was hacked. But by all means, keep talking. FFS

think- ago

That is a clear statement by you that the Trumps were socializing with Epstein with full knowledge he was raping underage girls.

You realize it is a big difference between 'being part of a pedo ring', and knowing about pedo activities, but not doing anything against them? Yes?

I'm not playing the victim, you insinuated something I never said.

You claimed there were multiple photos of them socializing together with Epstein, and they were on such intimate terms that Melania's phone number was in his address book.

Yes, they were photographed when socializing together. Yes, Melania's number is in his little black book. It was one of the numbers (with her name attached) on the page were Trump's numbers are also listed.

I'm not the one going around and asking people to censor themselves.

Where is that happening, exactly?

http://archive.fo/BCIF4

You told me to fuck off. You didn't write 'fuck you', you wrote 'fuck off'.

I've had several DMs asking me if your account was hacked.

No, it wasn't. If I seem like overreacting a bit, it is because I kept my mouth shut while I was a mod. Now I just can't take it anymore. You have a photo in your OP that shows George Nader, it was posted by Q, then you should allow a discussion why a major GOP donor and Trump ally like Erik Prince employs him, and why Q doesn't call him out for that.

But I forgot - you didn't mean to censor me!

Vindicator ago

But I forgot - you didn't mean to censor me!

Where were you ever "censored"? What a load of BS. If you think Prince is an important part of pizzagate, make a submission about it. Don't spam it someone else's unrelated thread like TTT.

You have a photo in your OP that shows George Nader, it was posted by Q, then you should allow a discussion why a major GOP donor and Trump ally like Erik Prince employs him, and why Q doesn't call him out for that.

More bullshit. Wow! That is a total and complete lie. You posted the comment about Prince at 9:08am twelve hours before I updated the OP at 9:06pm and added the picture.

The post was about Chelbin and Mann. So was the discussion. You forced your agenda into the discussion and created a bunch of unnecessary and toxic drama. You then stalked my comment history, and spammed another completely off topic comment in my thread at ProtectVoat and pinged 10 users to the comment instead of making a submission.

Now you're hurling the "mods are censoring me" shill meme for calling you out on it? And your excuse for all this rude, dishonest, defamatory behavior is "it is because I kept my mouth shut while I was a mod"?

So, you were lying that whole time, too?

What else were you playacting about? Was the "shock" about EsotericShade putting your name forward as a mod fake? Was the "reformed" Hillary fan claim fake? What the hell is going on, here?

think- ago

You know what? I will not reply to your insults. I always defended you when you were accused of being a shill, both in PMs and in public, and that's the result? Wow. Just wow. I feel totally disgusted.

But what to expect from someone who attacked me for calling out a satanist.

Vindicator ago

I see. I'm the asshole, here. Instead of defending all these claims you've made, you run away. What a surprise.

I always defended you when you were accused of being a shill

Also, this is more BS. You've spent the last several days painting me as a shill for Trump, claiming I "worship" him and "glorify him" and a bunch of other hogwash when you can't defend your position. You need to take a serious look in the mirror.

But what to expect from someone who attacked me for calling out a satanist.

When did I attack you? I think you'd better go back and read my comment history.

gamepwn ago

@think- and @Vindicator you both want the same thing. The liberation of the children who have been enslaved and used for both MKUltra and Sexual slavery for blackmail and elite depraved sick nutjobs. You both have fought off shill after shill attacks, have moderated the effort when Reddit destroyed the Pizzagate subverse, and both did so much for this community. This fight is so unnecessary, for both of you. Vindicator you are in the wrong to tell think- to fuck off, but think is in the wrong to imply you a satanist all over argociv and Aquino dispute. Sigh I wish you both would simply just actually talk this out instead of just attacking each other. Been through too much for that ya know?

think- ago

think is in the wrong to imply you a satanist over the Aquino dispute

Where did I say @Vindicator is a satanist? I said he attacked me for calling out a satanist, not that he is a satanist himself.

Apart from that, I appreciate your comment, @gamepwn. Thank you.

gamepwn ago

Ah sorry misread that then. I do mean it though, this fight is beneath you guys. I know what you mean about Trump and Vindicator I know think is not trying to disrespect FLOTUS, she is saying we should be weary of of Trump and both sides due to what we know about elites. Nothing is wrong with that. No problem think.

kestrel9 ago

You can be sure that she (Melania) knows a couple of things. Makes me wonder how she felt when they socialized with Epstein.

That was during the time when Trump said Epstein was a 'terrific guy' and acknowledged that many of Epstein's women 'are on the younger side'. :-)

[–] Vindicator [S] 1 points (+1|-0) 5.7 hours ago

So, long before the girl's mom went to the police and people found out he was a pedo.

[–] think- 0 points (+1|-1) 5.1 hours ago

LOL.

IIRC, Epstein's mansion is quite close to Mar-a-Lago. The mansion where he got massages from girls every day several times a day, and raped some of them. Epstein was a member of Mar-A-Lago.

He and Ghislaine Maxwell felt so safe there, they even groomed one of Trump's towel girls. Trump said many of Epstein's women were 'on the younger side'.

I think he didn't mean Ghislaine Maxwell when he was saying that. /s Imo, Trump knew perfectly well what Epstein did.

Trump might not be sophisticated, but he isn't an idiot. He would have been a bad club owner and businessman, if he hadn't known about Epstein's activities.

Do you think he never heard about the 'Lolita Express'?

Wasn't your real concern in writing about this is that you believe Trump is doing nothing? As in, "he knew then and did nothing, and he's not doing anything now" (In fact you seem to believe much worse than that)

IMO if he wasn't having an influence, then the Epstein case would not be revisited. IMO I believe it's disingenuous to say you weren't implying something more about Melania. But that's the advantage of playing word games, eh?

think- ago

Wasn't your real concern in writing about this is that you believe Trump is doing nothing? As in, "he knew then and did nothing, and he's not doing anything now"

Yes, that's what I think.

(In fact you seem to believe much worse than that)

Where exactly did I write that?

IMO I believe it's disingenuous to say you weren't implying something more about Melania.

Err....excuse me? If I had meant to imply 'something more' about Melania, I would have said so.

I think it's disingenious to allege that I meant something else.

But that's the advantage of playing word games, eh?

Boy, you must really gotten triggered. What 'word games' did I play? I wrote that she and Donald socialized with Epstein. And since Vindicator said he didn't know about it, I mentioned that she was in Epstein's book, since he was a member at Mar-a-Lago.

Sorry, @kestrel9 - it's ok if you disagree with me, and if you reply to stuff I actually wrote. It's not ok to insinuate I meant things I didn't even write.

Like the rape accusations against Trump, or 'implying something more' regarding Melania.

kestrel9 ago

two things regarding the 'much worse than this'. It's one thing to say that he knew Epstein was attracted to women 'on the younger side' (legal age is 'on the younger side', early twenties 'is on the younger side'. We don't know if Trump saw Epstein with underage girls at that time. Epstein claimed to 'own the police department', is that something Trump was supposed to know too?

At any rate, It's something else to make a case that given the proximity of Epstein's estate, that Trump would know what was happening in the privacy of that estate. Or that Trump was eyes on Epstein 24/7 because he was member at the club. How often did he visit the club when he's so busy raping girls at the estate. No rapes happened at Mar a Lago right?

Talking about 'how close it was, multiple rapes day in and day out' and then say they felt so comfortable as to groom a towel girl from the resort. (a victim of previous sex trafficking, likely very vulnerable to someone like Ghislaine approaching her.) Is Trump hanging out in the locker room, watching what the members are doing? Why wouldn't the girls father know about sex rings at the hotel, he was the maintenance man who got his daughter the job there.

All I'm saying is that's your animosity towards Trump and Melania are evident in how you phrase things. So saying you never meant to imply this or that, comes off sounding disingenuous. Like high school level. That's why I called it word games.

think- ago

Or that Trump was eyes on Epstein 24/7 because he was member at the club.

I didn't say so. Epstein had scores of girls coming to his Florida mansion. He even groomed one at the club. What I'm saying is that I don't believe that a shrewd man like Trump wouldn't know about a big operation like this. He was in the same social circles like Epstein.

So saying you never meant to imply this or that, comes off sounding disingenuous. Like high school level.

I'm afraid it is high school level to insinuate I meant things I never wrote, and then attacking me for that.

kestrel9 ago

I didn't insinuate in my last post, I laid out what you sound like to people reading. Why would anyone believe you if you start sounding like you're just saying Dindu nuttin! People are well versed in what guile sounds like around here.

think- ago

I didn't insinuate in my last post, I laid out what you sound like to people reading.

You mean Trump supporters reading. And you sound like someone who lumps in any critic of Trump with all other people who have ever critized Trump.

kestrel9 ago

You mean Trump supporters reading.

No, at the time were contributing to that thread there was at least one (maybe more) non Trump supporter who felt uncomfortable enough to comment about the direction you were going. "Seemingly" Off topic and awkwardly unconducive to the collaborative effort going on at the time.

And you sound like someone who lumps in any critic of Trump with all other people who have ever criticized Trump.

I don't think so. Prove me wrong.

Shizy ago

Saying Epstein is a "terrific guy" was probably meant as sincerely as saying Bruce Ohr's "beautiful wife Nellie"!

kestrel9 ago

Exactly.