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Crensch ago

@Vindicator @think- @srayzie @EricKaliberhall @kevdude

I trust there are no issues with me posting this given the amount of manipulation of this subverse that has gone one just form what's shown above?

think- ago

Well, we always said that proven shill activity would adhere to Rule 4, so I'm fine with it.

Especially, since I was able to see myself during the last couple days what Esoteric did when I went through his comment histories, and those of his alts.

I have a reputation to uphold of being impartial, but I must say that in this case, I was really shocked to see what this man has done. Unbelievable.

@Vindicator @EricKaliberhall @ben_matlock @Kevdude @Srayzie

twistedmac11 ago

I can agree that it was proven that @ESOTERICshade has @rarepeeks as an alt. But how was it proven that I'm an alt? I only have twistedmac11.

Serious question: how would I go about proving that I'm not an alt? Especially when it seems that it's already been decided that I am without any real proof?

Vindicator ago

So a mod can just go around making accusations without a shred of real evidence, and theres no way for me to disprove it or defend myself?

Well, twistedmac, I have busted my ass to mod this place fairly and consistently. I've gone out of my way to administer the rules that the community repeatedly agreed to evenhandedly, and help everyone figure out how to post within their parameters. I've tried to maintain a free speech environment for all comers. And I have literally hundreds of times, confronted ESOTERICshade about his lies, intimidation, threats and other attempts to censor discussion of topics he wants squashed. My comment history and removal and ban history is there for your perusal and the scrutiny of all.

Yet YOU have repeatedly chosen to join in, via comments and voting, his attempts to use alts to manipulate and control v/pizzagate. That was your choice. Anyone could see what was happening. You could see all of the evidence @Crensch has presented here. Yet you joined in anyway. You have chosen to be one of his pawns.

Didn't your father warn you you would be judged by the company you keep?

And now, you are trying to frame those choices as "mods making accusations without a shred of evidence" instead of taking responsibility for the choices you made. It's a weasel tactic. It won't help you.

theres no way for me to disprove it or defend myself?

Honorable conduct is it's own shield.

twistedmac11 ago

When I argue with you about something, it's because I don't agree with whatever you're saying. Quite frankly, I don't agree with your stance on some things. Sue me. But regardless, you're not special, I speak up when I don't agree with something regardless of who's speaking. I comment and vote on things because I agree or disagree with them, same as everyone else. That doesn't make me anyone's pawn.

I'm saying you and crensch specifically made allegations that I'm an alt of ESOTERICshade without a shred of actual evidence, yes. It's not a weasel tactic. It's the fucking truth.

Nothing I have done has been dishonorable. I stood up for what I thought was right. Just because you don't agree with my viewpoint on things doesn't mean shit. It doesn't make me a shill, or an alt, or dishonorable, or any other term you want to brand me with.

Vindicator ago

Nothing I have done has been dishonorable.

You think it's honorable to support someone trying to destroy this sub? To use your comments and votes over and over again to support a dishonest manipulator?

And when called out for it, you think it's honorable to play the injured party instead of taking responsibility for your role?

Why is it okay to make accusations towards someone without giving them a way to defend themselves or prove the accusations wrong?

Your conduct speaks for itself, TM. No one can "give" you a way to defend yourself. Whether you are literally an ES alt, or just act like one, those choices have consequences. It's a little late to whine about it. We pointed out that you always appear and join in when ES goes brigading. Your user history is the problem, not us pointing it out. People will make their own decisions about you.

If you weren't an ES account, why didn't you point out his nefarious behavior? Why join in? Why not admit now you made a grave error in judgement? Why keep trying to spin this as mods preying on "innocent" users when all we are doing is calling out nefarious conduct that is harmful to the community?

twistedmac11 ago

I never supported anyone trying to destroy this sub. I never saw ESOTERICshade as attempting to do that until he/she was exposed for using rarepeeks as an alt. Notice I haven't said anything in support since. Also, ESOTERICshade is far from the only person I've supported here, he/she is just the only one you apparently pay attention to.

I don't think it's dishonorable to defend myself against BS accusations, no. There's nothing in my history that would show I'm taking part in any brigading or anything of the sort. You just don't like that I give you a hard time over some of the shit you do, like I did that recent post about the presidential alert and Q, after which you decided I was an alt of ESOTERICshade.

Vindicator ago

You just don't like that I give you a hard time over some of the shit you do, like I did that recent post about the presidential alert and Q,

LOL. Couldn't care less, twisted. I mod based on the rules, not what people think. If I didn't, I would not have lasted in here almost two years.

after which you decided I was an alt of ESOTERICshade.

Again -- false narrative shifting. You have been on our radar as a potential part of this brigade for months.

twistedmac11 ago

Okay, but the first time you accused me of being an alt was on that particular post, after I disagreed with you over that post and its relevance. If it's a "false narrative" it's only because that's the one I was given. How would I know I'm on your radar as being an alt if I'm never told?

Vindicator ago

Sadly, twistedmac, claiming innocence of ESOTERIC's fuckery is not going to save you, here. You've been on my radar ever since I challenged you about supporting ES three months ago. Here's the link: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2608242/13143338?=20#13142050. I clearly explained his brigading, and linked to evidence supporting it. Yet you still joined in.

Now you must reap what you sowed.

twistedmac11 ago

All you proved there was that there are people who don't agree with Q who are downvoting people they don't agree with, in this case Eric, and up voting people they do agree with, in this case ESOTERICshade. I didn't buy the circumstantial evidence then, and even now it's still not enough to prove anything.