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Crensch ago

@Vindicator @think- @srayzie @EricKaliberhall @kevdude

I trust there are no issues with me posting this given the amount of manipulation of this subverse that has gone one just form what's shown above?

think- ago

Well, we always said that proven shill activity would adhere to Rule 4, so I'm fine with it.

Especially, since I was able to see myself during the last couple days what Esoteric did when I went through his comment histories, and those of his alts.

I have a reputation to uphold of being impartial, but I must say that in this case, I was really shocked to see what this man has done. Unbelievable.

@Vindicator @EricKaliberhall @ben_matlock @Kevdude @Srayzie

twistedmac11 ago

I can agree that it was proven that @ESOTERICshade has @rarepeeks as an alt. But how was it proven that I'm an alt? I only have twistedmac11.

Serious question: how would I go about proving that I'm not an alt? Especially when it seems that it's already been decided that I am without any real proof?

Vindicator ago

So a mod can just go around making accusations without a shred of real evidence, and theres no way for me to disprove it or defend myself?

Well, twistedmac, I have busted my ass to mod this place fairly and consistently. I've gone out of my way to administer the rules that the community repeatedly agreed to evenhandedly, and help everyone figure out how to post within their parameters. I've tried to maintain a free speech environment for all comers. And I have literally hundreds of times, confronted ESOTERICshade about his lies, intimidation, threats and other attempts to censor discussion of topics he wants squashed. My comment history and removal and ban history is there for your perusal and the scrutiny of all.

Yet YOU have repeatedly chosen to join in, via comments and voting, his attempts to use alts to manipulate and control v/pizzagate. That was your choice. Anyone could see what was happening. You could see all of the evidence @Crensch has presented here. Yet you joined in anyway. You have chosen to be one of his pawns.

Didn't your father warn you you would be judged by the company you keep?

And now, you are trying to frame those choices as "mods making accusations without a shred of evidence" instead of taking responsibility for the choices you made. It's a weasel tactic. It won't help you.

theres no way for me to disprove it or defend myself?

Honorable conduct is it's own shield.

twistedmac11 ago

When I argue with you about something, it's because I don't agree with whatever you're saying. Quite frankly, I don't agree with your stance on some things. Sue me. But regardless, you're not special, I speak up when I don't agree with something regardless of who's speaking. I comment and vote on things because I agree or disagree with them, same as everyone else. That doesn't make me anyone's pawn.

I'm saying you and crensch specifically made allegations that I'm an alt of ESOTERICshade without a shred of actual evidence, yes. It's not a weasel tactic. It's the fucking truth.

Nothing I have done has been dishonorable. I stood up for what I thought was right. Just because you don't agree with my viewpoint on things doesn't mean shit. It doesn't make me a shill, or an alt, or dishonorable, or any other term you want to brand me with.

Vindicator ago

Nothing I have done has been dishonorable.

You think it's honorable to support someone trying to destroy this sub? To use your comments and votes over and over again to support a dishonest manipulator?

And when called out for it, you think it's honorable to play the injured party instead of taking responsibility for your role?

Why is it okay to make accusations towards someone without giving them a way to defend themselves or prove the accusations wrong?

Your conduct speaks for itself, TM. No one can "give" you a way to defend yourself. Whether you are literally an ES alt, or just act like one, those choices have consequences. It's a little late to whine about it. We pointed out that you always appear and join in when ES goes brigading. Your user history is the problem, not us pointing it out. People will make their own decisions about you.

If you weren't an ES account, why didn't you point out his nefarious behavior? Why join in? Why not admit now you made a grave error in judgement? Why keep trying to spin this as mods preying on "innocent" users when all we are doing is calling out nefarious conduct that is harmful to the community?

twistedmac11 ago

I never supported anyone trying to destroy this sub. I never saw ESOTERICshade as attempting to do that until he/she was exposed for using rarepeeks as an alt. Notice I haven't said anything in support since. Also, ESOTERICshade is far from the only person I've supported here, he/she is just the only one you apparently pay attention to.

I don't think it's dishonorable to defend myself against BS accusations, no. There's nothing in my history that would show I'm taking part in any brigading or anything of the sort. You just don't like that I give you a hard time over some of the shit you do, like I did that recent post about the presidential alert and Q, after which you decided I was an alt of ESOTERICshade.

Crensch ago

Why aren't you more pissed that esoteric just delegitimized every complaint you have against the mods or against Q?

Literally everyone that holds that position genuinely on this sub versus now suspect because he used sock puppets to manufacture consensus and folk Brigade to Force his opinions and ideas on others Force his opinions and ideas on others. Why are you still whining and railing against the mods here instead of bitching him out?

But you never will, will you? Because bitching yourself out is tiring and stupid.

@Vinducator

twistedmac11 ago

How did ESOTERICshade delegitimize every complaint I have against the mods? As far as I'm concerned, my complaints still stand. I'm on this post because you, yes you, dragged me into it with BS accusations about me being an alt based on piss poor evidence. I don't like being accused of shit I'm not doing.

Crensch ago

By constantly attacking the mods and getting caught manufacturing consensus and voat manipulating. Now any time they're attacked it's going to look like it's just him again. Or maybe one of his crew that are also getting paid to post here.

As far as everyone else is concerned, you're likely part of whatever he is, and he is a dishonest kike shill.

You did do it though. You supported him constantly and somehow he was doing all of this under your nose the entire time. Instead of eating a dish of crow and apologizing and disappearing, you stick around and you act like the victim and you complain to the mods and you bitch and piss and moan about being associated with him when you Associated yourself with him.

twistedmac11 ago

People are going to disagree with mods without all being part of some big brigade. I fail to see how this situation has any bearing on future complaints users have of mods.

I supported him constantly? Try two or three times when it seemed like he was unfairly being attacked. I've done that for other users too. Looking back, I should've looked more closely into the alts accusations against him, but to be fair, they all were based on flimsy evidence and were made by idiots like oh_well_ian who thrives on idiotic statements.

Why would I eat a dish of crow, apologize, and disappear? Maybe I'm seriously missing something here, but I don't see any reason for me to do any of that. I do, however, see a reason to complain when I'm accused of shit I didn't do.

Crensch ago

You really don't see how every attack on the mods previously being orchestrated and at least mostly populated by his alts casts doubt on future ones no matter if his known alt names show up or not? Really/

Yeah. I saved your comment history, don't worry. Plenty of pages where you could just search "@ESOTERICshade" and find you defending him - more often than reasonable if you're just "defending those unfairly attacked".

Ian might be an idiot, but he's not always completely full of shit. He has to make a FEW posts that make him appear legitimate, just like ESOTERIC.

For defending him, for defending someone that constantly attacks my mods. You don't have to see why, you just have to know that you have one winning move, and that you were told exactly what that was before you made the wrong move.