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Crensch ago

@Vindicator @think- @srayzie @EricKaliberhall @kevdude

I trust there are no issues with me posting this given the amount of manipulation of this subverse that has gone one just form what's shown above?

think- ago

Well, we always said that proven shill activity would adhere to Rule 4, so I'm fine with it.

Especially, since I was able to see myself during the last couple days what Esoteric did when I went through his comment histories, and those of his alts.

I have a reputation to uphold of being impartial, but I must say that in this case, I was really shocked to see what this man has done. Unbelievable.

@Vindicator @EricKaliberhall @ben_matlock @Kevdude @Srayzie

twistedmac11 ago

I can agree that it was proven that @ESOTERICshade has @rarepeeks as an alt. But how was it proven that I'm an alt? I only have twistedmac11.

Serious question: how would I go about proving that I'm not an alt? Especially when it seems that it's already been decided that I am without any real proof?

Vindicator ago

So a mod can just go around making accusations without a shred of real evidence, and theres no way for me to disprove it or defend myself?

Well, twistedmac, I have busted my ass to mod this place fairly and consistently. I've gone out of my way to administer the rules that the community repeatedly agreed to evenhandedly, and help everyone figure out how to post within their parameters. I've tried to maintain a free speech environment for all comers. And I have literally hundreds of times, confronted ESOTERICshade about his lies, intimidation, threats and other attempts to censor discussion of topics he wants squashed. My comment history and removal and ban history is there for your perusal and the scrutiny of all.

Yet YOU have repeatedly chosen to join in, via comments and voting, his attempts to use alts to manipulate and control v/pizzagate. That was your choice. Anyone could see what was happening. You could see all of the evidence @Crensch has presented here. Yet you joined in anyway. You have chosen to be one of his pawns.

Didn't your father warn you you would be judged by the company you keep?

And now, you are trying to frame those choices as "mods making accusations without a shred of evidence" instead of taking responsibility for the choices you made. It's a weasel tactic. It won't help you.

theres no way for me to disprove it or defend myself?

Honorable conduct is it's own shield.

twistedmac11 ago

When I argue with you about something, it's because I don't agree with whatever you're saying. Quite frankly, I don't agree with your stance on some things. Sue me. But regardless, you're not special, I speak up when I don't agree with something regardless of who's speaking. I comment and vote on things because I agree or disagree with them, same as everyone else. That doesn't make me anyone's pawn.

I'm saying you and crensch specifically made allegations that I'm an alt of ESOTERICshade without a shred of actual evidence, yes. It's not a weasel tactic. It's the fucking truth.

Nothing I have done has been dishonorable. I stood up for what I thought was right. Just because you don't agree with my viewpoint on things doesn't mean shit. It doesn't make me a shill, or an alt, or dishonorable, or any other term you want to brand me with.

Vindicator ago

Nothing I have done has been dishonorable.

You think it's honorable to support someone trying to destroy this sub? To use your comments and votes over and over again to support a dishonest manipulator?

And when called out for it, you think it's honorable to play the injured party instead of taking responsibility for your role?

Why is it okay to make accusations towards someone without giving them a way to defend themselves or prove the accusations wrong?

Your conduct speaks for itself, TM. No one can "give" you a way to defend yourself. Whether you are literally an ES alt, or just act like one, those choices have consequences. It's a little late to whine about it. We pointed out that you always appear and join in when ES goes brigading. Your user history is the problem, not us pointing it out. People will make their own decisions about you.

If you weren't an ES account, why didn't you point out his nefarious behavior? Why join in? Why not admit now you made a grave error in judgement? Why keep trying to spin this as mods preying on "innocent" users when all we are doing is calling out nefarious conduct that is harmful to the community?

Crensch ago

Fucking well said. Notice Twisted has not yet apologized or admitted fault or admitted wrongdoing. All they do is point to how they have not supported with words for some period of time. Makes me suspicious that they're still supporting him with votes.

twistedmac11 ago

I haven't done anything wrong.

Crensch ago

I don't, that's the whole point. Esoteric has made everyone suspicious of anyone who has ever supported him. What part of that do you not understand? What part of him manipulating the system and casting doubt on everything surrounding him doesn't make sense?