You are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

Are_we_sure ago

You can remove the part about the Arch of Hysteria having anything to do with Jeffrey Dahmer.

That is conclusively debunked. We know the inspiration for that sculpture and we know when she first came up with the idea.

Her inspiration was the Charcot, a French Neurologist from the 1800s. He studied hysteria and had patients who would arch themselves into what the called the arc de cercle. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/af/da/48/afda484112e16bcd3315ead9da6a2e88.jpg

She started working on this idea in the late 80's. This is a sketch of the first in the series. The sketch was made in 1989 https://www.moma.org/collection_lb/browse_results.php?object_id=70922

Millennial_Falcon ago

I will look into this.

JrSlimss ago

It actually isn't debunked. There's enough evidence to leave it up. http://pizzagate.wiki/Louise_Bourgeois#Arch_of_Hysteria

Also, Are_we_sure/Arewesure is always shilling.

Are_we_sure ago

The Pizzagate Wiki entry is nonsense upon nonsense.

Arch of Hysteria Bourgeois' work, Arch of Hysteria, is prominently featured in Tony Podesta's art collection. It bears a striking resemblance to a Polaroid photo of a victim of the cannibal, Jeffrey Dahmer

This is if you completely ignore the placement of the arms and legs.

Arch of Hysteria is often suspended from a ceiling by a cable in its pelvic region, but it also may be presented in a recreation of a cellar, with a large saw and the sculpture lying on a bed.

These are two different works from a long term series she did. The one next to the saw is female is called Arched Figure. The pizzagate wiki doesn't not seem to know that she did a lot of these some with heads, some without. Some with arms, some without, some male, some female. She even did a little sketch of herself as the arch in a Self Portrait show. http://www.moma.org/collection_images/resized/768/w155h170crop/CRI_263768.jpg I don't think she wanted to be a murder victim.

According to Bourgeois, the work's name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of "hysteria," a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3]

Neither link 2 or 3 show Bourgeois's inspiration, it is specifically Charcot's work on hysteria and the contortion he called the "arc de cercle." The Bell engraving does not show a hysteric, but someone suffering from tetanus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opisthotonus. Either way, Bell's illustration is irrelevant as it was an illustration from Charcot's work she used.

However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois' work and all other portrayals of "hysteria" - no other portrayal has the subject's head severed.

This is just lousy art criticism. When Rodin sculpted hand of a pianist? Are we supposed to think this hand was severed from a body? Or does Rodin just want us to focus only on the hand. https://boutique.musee-rodin.fr/96-1796/hand-of-a-pianist-rodin.jpg The Arch of Hysteria does not show a figure with a severed head. It never had a head. It's a sculpture, an abstraction. It doesn't breathe, it doesn't bleed. the fact that it never had a head is no indication of violence.

Discussion Over Whether Dahmer's Photos Influenced Bourgeois

Hint: They did not.

The Pizzagate Wiki then goes into a convoluted discussion about when these images of Dahmer's victims were first seen by the public. This section is oddly written because it doesn't spell out what it's responding to. It's responding to a specific charge that Louise Bourgeois could not be influenced by that photo of that Jeffrey Dahmer victim in 1993 because that image was not public in 1993. But it doesn't want to say it that plainly because that would undermine the accusation it's making. Look how oddly this written and how long it take to get to the fact that the first documented appearance is in textbook on murder in 1996.

Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993.[4] Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[5] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[6] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[7] Evidence in criminal trials is often made available to the public after it is shown in court or after the case has concluded. "[T]he public's right of access to judicial records is protected by various legal sources. After-the-fact access to evidence, however, is less certain, although some courts have adopted the view that the public has a right to access such evidence, absent exceptional circumstances."[8][Archived Version] Needless to say, the Court in the Dahmer trial showed no attempt to conceal the proceedings from the public. In fact, the Jeffrey Dahmer trial was televised publicly on CourtTV.[9][Archived Version] It was arguably one of the 11 most-watched trials in history.[10][Archived Version] While it is unclear what Polaroid photos, if any, were shown on television, the photos were made publicly available. That is how Vernon Gerberth was able to acquire them for his 1996 book, Practical Homicide Investigation, for example.

Do they really think they were going to show these gruesome photos on TV in 1992? In fact, we know that they did not because the pizzagate wiki links to the evidence when they talk about the most watched trials. There is no support whatsoever for this sentence. "Needless to say, the Court in the Dahmer trial showed no attempt to conceal the proceedings from the public."

Court TV was there—but on a 10-second delay, in order to carefully edit out those exhibits and discussions that might be too disturbing to viewers.

The section ends with sheer speculation because they know they don't have any evidence these images were available in 1993. They seem to first show up in a specialized textbook on murder 3 years after her sculpture is completed.

Given the high-profile nature of the Dahmer case, the occasional portrayal of the Arch of Hysteria in a scenario reminiscent of a slaughterhouse, and Bourgeois' previous works showing her interest in cannibalism, it is not unreasonable to think that she may have taken an interest in the case, seen the Dahmer photo, and allowed it to influence her work, which would be released a year later.

Let's put this a statement that can be discovered to be true or false.

In addition to the fact that Bourgeois, started her arches in 1989, the Bourgeois/Dahmer connection is false because Jeffrey Dahmer crime scene photos were not public in 1993, they were first shown in a 1996 text book on murder.

JrSlimss ago

In addition to the fact that Bourgeois, started her arches in 1989, the Bourgeois/Dahmer connection is false because Jeffrey Dahmer crime scene photos were not public in 1993, they were first shown in a 1996 text book on murder.

Nope. They would be available right after the trial concluded. Good waste of time though, shill. Why don't you even use a new account? Like why would someone even believe you after crying wolf so many times?

Are_we_sure ago

This is absolutely false. They would only be released if they specifically were used as evidence in the trial. it's not at all clear the photo we are talking about was entered as evidence. There was tons of evidence to convict Dahmer, not all of it needed to be used at trial. I had never heard of Dahmer posing his victim this way until pizzagate.

JrSlimss ago

Haha of course all photos would have been entered into evidence at the beginning of the trial! Are you seriously that dense? You can't bring in new evidence during the trial unless you have a very serious reason, like obstruction by the opposing party.

Are_we_sure ago

There's fuck-all evidence. There's a shit ton of conjecture. All it false.

The statue Podesta owns is one many Arches she did. She conceived of an Arched Figure as early as 1989 as I just documented. It was not in response to Jeffrey Dahmer, who no one knew about in 1989, it was a response to the work of Jean-Martin Charcot, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Martin_Charcot He was "the founder of modern neurology." who studied hysterics and found they sometimes contorted themselves in this way. https://ratandravendotnet.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/1843-delahaye-et-lecrosnier.jpg

Of particular note, a person in an Arch of Hysteria is alive. They are not a cadaver. Again this link conclusively debunks the idea that Bourgeois's sculptuer is related to Jeffrey Dahmer. It shows the date as 1989 and contains the following text. https://www.moma.org/collection_lb/browse_results.php?object_id=70922

Background:The source of Bourgeois's imagery is an illustration from an early twentieth-century textbook on psychological illnesses, which she photocopied, traced, and then scratched on the plate. She rejected it because it was not her own image and she was not satisfied with it. She would later create Arched Figure, seen below in Related Works in the Catalogue, on the same theme. Artist’s Remarks:"This is a feminist statement. It is a document which proves the prejudice of Charcot." (Jean-Martin Charcot [1825-1893], considered the father of modern neurology, was also the teacher of Sigmund Freud.) "For Charcot," Bourgeois said, "the arched body... the hysterical woman... was a subject of entertainment... she was made to be ridiculous and laughable. And hysterical people were always thought to be women. But that is a superstition! This document shows that men were also hysterical. I am trying to prove a point here. Charcot made fun of women... like my father made fun of me." (Quote cited in Wye, Deborah and Carol Smith. “The Prints of Louise Bourgeois.” New York: The Museum of Modern Art, 1994, p. 244.)

Here's a few of her works in the series. The first image is one she conceived in 1989. This figure is a female-another difference with Dahmer. http://www.moma.org/collection_images/resized/674/w500h420/CRI_311674.jpg

http://www.moma.org/collection_images/resized/689/w500h420/CRI_329689.jpg http://www.moma.org/collection_images/resized/692/w500h420/CRI_329692.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0d/6b/ef/0d6bef7d6e9a15b8fb4dceb1c2259f69.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6d/02/10/6d02104bee777b8c05e03311a5ef7ad4.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/88/d8/94/88d8949312f03e0cad300f2ba950cb21.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2d/54/32/2d5432c322bd53d6854c3cfff911fb0d.jpg http://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/work/AL/AL00229_8.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4b/46/1e/4b461ee06790473cdee45c3e27095964.jpg

@Millennial_Falcon

UnicornsAndSparkles ago

I thought it was just one of them and they copied the name to throw us off. A long played out shill must be reading through this shit thinking .. were fucked.