So yesterday, after witnessing several days of truly despicable smear campaigning by multiple users attempting to paint srayzie as a manipulative floozy using completely unsubstantiated claims who deserved to be driven off Voat, treating her recent fight with @Zyklon_b and friends as if it occurred in a vacuum, I had a conversation in which I reminded @Kevdude about the role that he played in creating it, starting around 1:42 am Voat time.
He was telling @Dismember, former PV mod Disappointed, about why srayzie came under attack by Hojuruku a year ago, and he said,
"I was helping with that. He was attacking the entire mod team in PG and spamming autism to PV and other places."
So I challenged him, because he did not, in fact, "help" with that. He caused it.
First, I gave him a chance to stop misrepresenting the incident. Kev's response was to dismiss Hojuruku's attacks -- which involved a bounty put out on me to try to have me doxxed -- as "because he was crazy". Then he turned it into a completely unwarranted attack on me with a slur against my reputation:
"Look you have this misguided idea that because something annoys you you have the right to delete it. Remember you only left reddit when they threw you off. Silencing entire communities starts with a comment deletion years prior."
I challenged the smear:
Look you have this misguided idea that because something annoys you you have the right to delete it.
Oh? Show me evidence that I delete what annoys me. Show me one single example.
Remember you only left reddit when they threw you off.
I was on Reddit for about three weeks before the migration because I saw the research being posted on Twitter. You've made this "Reddit" accusation against me before. Why do you keep repeating something you know is not true?
Silencing entire communities starts with a comment deletion years prior.
I'd like to see proof of this. I'd also like to know what this has to do with me.
Kev did not -- and cannot -- provide anything to support these assertions.
I went on to address his role in loosing Hojuruku to rampage at will, which I believe is important background information for what ultimately led srayzie to her later acts of desperation and protest:
Besides, I think he was dealt with quite effectively in the end.
Zero thanks to you.
The reason Hojuruku went on a rampage -- after he was legitimately banned after multiple rule breaking posts -- is because you unilaterally unbanned him without doing any research whatsoever into who he was, or what he had been up to. And I didn't reban him, because he was going all over Voat saying I was a pedo and it would have looked like censorship, as I told you at the time when I asked you to fix what you had fucked up. But you didn't care about taking responsibility for your bad decision, or about protecting my reputation. @Crensch rebanned him. That took about two weeks, during which time, srayzie and @think- tried to defend me against him because Hojuruku put a bounty out to have me doxed on multiple platforms. I can document every single word of this, if you like.
Srayzie never would have even gotten on Hojuruku's radar if it weren't for your irresponsible act, followed by your cowardly inaction. The fact that you are allowing a bunch of liars to go around carping about how she "doxed" a guy that doxed himself in every submission he ever made without revealing the MAJOR role you played in creating the situation is very, very telling.
Instead of doing the right thing and owning up to the fact that he let a dangerous, rule-violating nutbar loose to rampage at will, attacking me, then srayzie when she defended me, and then refused to put him back in his cage, he dismissed everything I said as "bullshit":
"That is so much one sided bullshit I don't even know where to start. You're that fucking desperate to paint me as the villain in all of this. Seriously. I'll get back to you in a few days. Or I won't. Whatever."
That was at 7:21 am Voat time. For the next hour, he and I went back and forth, with him deflecting, acting as if I had not been speaking clearly, and diverting away from his creation of the problem. At 8:23 am, I ended the conversation with a restatement of what I had been saying all along:
What was that role, exactly?
Your role -- exactly -- was to create the situation, and then do nothing to fix your mistake or the harm it caused. Srayzie never would have been targeted by Hojuruku if you hadn't unbanned him. Or if you had promptly rebanned him when he did exactly what I warned you he would do.
After that, I went to bed. This morning, I got up to find this gem in my notifications, in which someone created a fake "Vindicator" account on Paol and commented on this post exposing a srayzie alt and claiming "Vindicator must be the biggest weenie on the Internet. Takes to Poal to defend @srayzie's honor".
I have never been on Paol, until today to research this smear, and it's easily proven. Here is how it went down:
Timeline of a Retard Psyop:
Four hours later…
- 6/3/2019 at 4:52 am PDT (11:52 am Voat time) SrayzieL1ve5 posts the Paol submission
- 6/3/2019 at 4:53 am PDT Just one minute after it was submitted, Paol “Vindicator” account comments
- 6/3/2019 at 2:04 pm Voat time someone seeking to discredit me posts on AnonWhatever claiming I created a Paol account to cover for srayzie (Voat time = PDT +7)
Pretty retarded. How astronomically small are the odds I would be able to find that submission and reply to it within one minute of it being posted, as the hit job posted here on AnonWhatever asserts?
That choice nugget of fecal matter also includes the disinfo narrative of the week portraying srayzie as a magical vixen, the mere sight of whose nude form allegedly enslaved me, @Crensch and apparently everyone but the mighty Kevdude, driving men to never before seen heights of craven Redditry:
[–] 18984156? 0 points (+0|-0) 4.7 hours ago
Promise of sexual favors. Promise of meeting. Promise of seeing more pictures.
Like any good cam girl she strung them all out.
My theory: if any of the male voaters she’s was sexting where even mildly attractive she would of meet them in person. Unfortunately for her the voat demographic is chubby and over 50. She went after the bottom dwellers of voat. There are attractive people on voat but they’re not spending countless hours on protect voat, great awakening or Pizzagate.
And the final piece de resistance:
At 7:07 pm, Kev cites the sloppily created fake Paol account in attempt to de-legitimize Crensch and his acts of civil disobedience:
"You have literally become Darth Vader. You sold out everything you stood for and now you're a big menacing dude who's going to rip everything apart but somebody's pulling your strings. I can't even take you seriously anymore. I think Vindicator needs your help over on Poal."
You'll note he fails to ping me to his slur. Or this one.
That, my friends, is what happens when you attempt to hold Kevdude accountable for his conduct. That is the "free speech" that is being protected by "ProtectVoat". Speech used to attempt to discredit and thus silence my inconvenient point of view.
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Vindicator ago
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.
xenoPsychologist ago
your point is valid. as far as i can tell, he is an excellent dude. im sure he will do the right thing when it comes down to it.
Dismember ago
Look that's a nice write up and all but it seems like you are trying WAY too hard to fling some shit to try to make something stick and it also seems like you are all planning this out amongst yourselves as some sort of coordinated attack and that bothers me far more than anything here in your evidence. @kevdude has been the main driver in removing powermods from the system subs on this site and you wan't him gone because a few trolls fucked your girl over?
Why aren't you going after them, btw? Did you finally realize they don't give a fuck and are too busy laughing at you for being manipulated by them? Well here you are I guess.
Vindicator ago
Nice.
Looks like the disdain is pretty much unanimous here.
I guess you will believe whatever you need to, and excuse whatever you choose to. But I'm here stating on the record that I am not here "to fling some shit" nor is there a group "planning this out amongst yourselves as some sort of the coordinated attack". I was not part of the drama that went down between GA mods and their enemies. I don't participate much in GreatAwakening, because Pizzagate takes too much time. I showed up to the scene a day or two before srayzie deleted her account and have been playing catch-up ever since. I don't have alts, and I don't engage in trolling.
I attempted, here, and in replies to various people over the past several days in several different threads, to give some of my perspective about the background and larger context of recent events, in the apparently foolish hope that some would care.
I saw Kev feeding the drama with unsubstantiated claims and outright lying about previous events involving srayzie. When I spoke up about that to him, deep in a thread, I got hammered with what actually WAS a COORDINATED ATTACK. I provided the evidence! And here you are claiming I am the one involved in a coordinated attack. Unbelievable.
I want to know why Kev isn't held to the same standards of evidence he holds others to. I want to know why it's fine for him to behave in duplicitious, dishonorable ways. I want to know why he seems to have a cult following that is utterly unwilling or unable to hear legitimate criticism.
If those questions aren't answered, I guarantee there are going to be more srayzies, more drama and further moral rot at the heart of Voat. Power mods are the least of Voat's problems.
I am not the one who has been manipulated by trolls.
Dismember ago
This right here is where we disagree on a fundamental level. There are very few trolls on reddit for example where mods have pretty much free reign to do as wthey will. But you cannot say anything there for fear of a ban. If you think Voat leans one way or another too much iniate a conversation. Work together on what you and @crensch want and pout it to the people of voat and say "this is what i think is a better way". Not like this.
If you do decide to start a conversation let me know and I can see about having a sticky here to discuss it, as long as it is framed in a genuine way that seeks out input and is about moving forward. @kevdude would you be against that?
Vindicator ago
Nowhere have I ever advocated for power mods. If you knew anything about me, you would know that I have never engaged in any such thing.
There is no way an honest and fruitful conversation can happen when not all the parties are being honest and taking responsibility for their role in problems. @Crensch's response to this reality was to stage a flamboyant act of civil disobedience. Mine has been to speak up and share my experience in a straightforward and fully sourced manner. We both have been told our point of view is not worth listening to, no matter how legitimate and based on real problems it is. Sad.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
you mean you try and label anyone you disagree with as a pedo?
Vindicator ago
What?
The only person I've ever said was a pedo on Voat was an actual pedo who spammed the fuck out of pizzagate until one of our users figured out his RL identity and reported him to his parole office and he got put back in the slammer.
Evidence, or STFU.
Crensch ago
And there was a plethora of points you made that I consider more rock solid than what @Dismember addressed. I understand he's at work, but I hope he will come back and respond more fully later.
Crensch ago
This is the crux.
We're persona non grata whether we follow their rules or not. Anything that threatens the group is treated as second class.
What motivation should anyone have to follow their rules?
Crensch ago
Like kevdude being a pathological liar?
That's pretty much stuck.
Dismember ago
Maybe hes has lied before but I'm not seeing pathological being an apt descriptor from anything I've read so far.
Crensch ago
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3258143/18994977 King Kevdude isn't accountable!
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3253353/18994215 Misrepresenting what I have to say.
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3253353/18994785/10#18994785 Misrepresenting what I have to say.
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3253353/18994582 Claiming I'm strawmanning his words.
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3253353/18994273 Begging the question
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3253353/18993338 Misrepresenting my words with his response
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3253353/18996654?=10 Evading direct, relevant question.
https://voat.co/v/SBBHTantrums/3255509/18980073/10#18980073 More hojuruku deflection
Hmm, maybe an inaccurate label. @Vindicator, think you can pull up a better set of his lies? I just have Jew-tier shit, here. Not exactly pathological lying.
Ilhan-Abdullahi-Omar ago
archive those so that faggot kevchicken can change them
-dial
Dismember ago
What I see is two people who have had a bit of a falling out over ideals and some drama which I don't exactly know the details of arguing back and forth. I'm going to wait till you reply to my suggestions in previous comments because there's no way I can do this type of rapid fire response to never ending multiple convos when I'm at work. Every time I open a new page the little red box with numbers in it grows higher and higher and I fall further behind.
Crensch ago
Find any of the above things in my words.
I don't know where this is, but if I stumble upon it, sure.
IRL first. This stuff can wait.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
Srayzie created her own problems and finally people had enough. so.....you must've gotten some bitchin' tit pics from Srayzie & Shizy? Can I please see them? It's for scientific purposes, naturally. tootles
Vindicator ago
Do you own all the Cheesebooger accounts?
CheeseboogerHimself ago
Its none of your business :)
Did you receive any pics from Srayzie at any time here at Voat?
Vindicator ago
Why not, Cheesebooger? Do you have something to hide? Maybe you could tell me which Cheesebooger accounts aren't yours then. I'm not interested in your fight with srayzie. I'm curious about some things I've seen in pizzagate.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
Hide?? Me!?? No.
Why would my name be in Pizzagate? This is news to me. Links? This sounds bogus or like a smear campaign, which sadly, wouldn't surprise me because PG is gatekeeped too.
I think pedo's should be hanged upon conviction.
Vindicator ago
Glad to hear it.
So I can take that as confirmation that you do not control @CheeseburgersGhost?
NOMOCHOMO ago
for a dude who just got a fake "Vindicator" account made on Poal, @Vindicator is requiring a ridiculous double standard.
I dont assume all "nomochomo" 's are me I intentionally chose an already established username (on other platforms) to obfuscate my identity.
how the fuck would Vin even know if cheesebooger was being honest.
he's asking for unprovable proof.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
I have one Cheesebooger account and its this one. All others are a sham. I started as Cheesebooger. Then I was CheeseboogerGhost and now I am CheeseboogerHimself. Back a couple years ago when Srayzie and company attacked me someone made a few cheesebooger accounts and went around posting as me. I figure it was her, crensch or srayzie doing JIDF tactics. I remember one of the alts had three E's, so @Cheeeesebooger
Vindicator ago
Thank you.
Rotteuxx ago
So @vindicator is insinuating you're to blame for something on /v/pizzagate but won't link to anything nor will he say what.
Pretty fucking kikish way of talking.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
In all fairness, back when srayzie first came here and I exposed her, someone made a bunch of accounts similar to my name and went around posting as me saying all sorts of fucked-up shit. For example there were using three E's in their name like: Cheeesebooger, so its possible that this is what he is referring to. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Vindicator ago
I'm not insinuating shit. I asked a direct question, to which I received (as usual) an evasive and deflecting answer.
NOMOCHOMO ago
you insinuate shit all the time
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/3255653/18975454
Yesterday I asked you a direct question and you responded with a question. I interpret your question as a valid response and you accuse me of using a "shit-tier" rhetorical device.
typical deflection from @vindicator
NOMOCHOMO ago
mmm salty a downvoat
Rotteuxx ago
You're flat out insinuating you think @cheeseboogerhimself is behind something on PG.
Apparently you never got your little star for jewish doublespeak. Shalom, rabbi !
Vindicator ago
No. I asked for a list of his alts, or the ones that aren't his, because what I've been seeing is a pattern of users that attack GA and PG (for years, now). If the alt I am thinking of is not his, that is fine.
The fact that you are attempting to turn my question into something you can brand and dismiss does point to the likelihood that there is indeed an organized group with a destructive agenda.
SandHog ago
It's pretty obvious. You should compare the list of people who got bans or warnings to the people who insist on continuing with this nonsense.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
This is how fucked this group is. I've seen these fuckers smear users by calling them "pedo's". Anyone who has known me from the beginning knows that i am highly against pedo's/child sex slave trafficking and anything else degenerate like that. They seem to be a JIDF group who got in control of everything here at Voat
Vindicator ago
Evidence this happened, please. Show me one place where I called you a pedo or even intimated I thought you were one.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3258143/18996859
Maybe I took it the wrong way?
Vindicator ago
It's a known fact in v/pizzagate that one of the worst trolls we deal with -- who also hated srayzie's guts and attacked her relentlessly from long before she ever created her subverse -- used an alt similar to yours. He is Black, Jewish, Muslim and gay, hates everything we are doing with a passion, and has numerous alts. His particular mission, like Zb, is to target victims of child rape with comments so vile they are driven away. He is a fake anti-semite, who has a created a super-troll persona so vile that the largely normie Christian researchers in pizzagate will dismiss all discussion of lies about the Holocaust as coming from characters as evil as him.
All of us who have been involved with modding pizzagate are keenly aware there is an organized network that works together to silence those researching globalist corruption. ES, Zb and Donkey (who used one of the Cheesebooger usernames). The takedown of srayzie involved all three of them, so naturally anyone who participated is now suspect.
Here, for example is evidence showing Zyklon delivered the final blow after a long psyop by EsotericShade, that succeeded in silencing the research of user Cc1914:
His comments to her right before she deleted her account: https://archive.fo/hw7LP
These occurred right after she found out she’d been duped into vote brigading and false-consensus amplification by the malignant operative EsotericShade using multiple sock puppets. As an abuse survivor, it was the final straw. https://archive.fo/kfFo1
Even Zyklon knew he’d gone too far: https://archive.fo/0Y1om
Despite these antics being brought to the attention of ProtectVoat multiple times, the bad operators are still at large and silencing those investigating the pedo Cabal.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
I see. It wasn't me. I think we should have a special ops team who goes and kills pedos on sight.
think- ago
@shewhomustbeobeyed - please see this link in the comment above - https://archive.fo/kfFo1 - you might want to add it to your collection. Thanks.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
Will do.
xoxo
think- ago
K. :-)
xoxo
Crensch ago
Your mods knew. Apparently, you did, too.
You know that nobody buys that, right?
"Dude, I've been doing this so long the statute of limitations must've hit?"
I am always here for Voat.
Just because I disagree with your PV principles doesn't make me some supervillain.
Crensch ago
@PeaceSeeker [O] @Dismember [O] @cynoclast [M] @Rainy-Day-Dream [M] @SandHog [M]
I don't know if you noticed, but your lead mod is being exposed as a pathological liar, and someone incapable of taking responsibility for what he has done.
Any takers?
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
so far it just sounds like bitchy interpersonal drama, imo lotta heated accusations and insults without much substance. I'm gunna sit this one out till heads cool down.
Crensch ago
I'm going to have to strongly disagree there, but I can't argue with sitting out. I might do the same in your position, but I certainly wouldn't claim my side is in any way lacking in substance.
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3258143/18997334
^look here op of this thread says in so many words "I am not sure what exactly is wrong or why, which makes it very difficult to propose solutions." and "I'm honestly at a loss as to where to start at this point."
where's the substance? everyone here needs to take the time to calm down and think and then we'll sit down and try to have a productive big boy conversation when people are feeling mature enough for it
Crensch ago
Your example for lack of substance is someone not knowing where to go with the principles?
Try looking at what kevdude is up to; you might find a metric fuckton of substance. But only on one side.
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
really cuz when asked you provide https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3258143/18996719 wherein most of the examples yo give are from a single thread where he's taking to you. Forgive me if I take it as interpersonal drama.
and yes I think that qualifies as a lack of substance there's a number of people here yourself included that re very vocal that you don't approve of kevdude's words or actions but to what end? what should he do differently? what did you expect me or anyone else you pinged to do about him? what exactly is the point of all this?
Crensch ago
Forgive me if I take each instance as dishonesty and evidence of a lack of moral character.
Maybe act like he's not morally bankrupt?
You don't see the point of exposing someone behaving like a Jew?
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
I mean again to what end? do you want him to behave more morally, or step down, etc. what exactly are you trying to accomplish with all this?
Crensch ago
He's more than welcome to start acting like a human at any point. I've been doing my damnedest to get some kind of humanity out of him and I have failed so far.
It's probably too late for that now. He's going to keep thinking that he can salvage something or manipulate something so he and his narrative can come out on top.
Seems he's not really capable of doing anything else. So I will probably have to destroy him along with his narrative.
There are multiple reasons why, but I'm not going to share them. You can pretend you don't care, and that it doesn't affect you, but you will, and it will.
You've been around long enough to see me be wrong once or twice. Does this look like one of those times?
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
I mean is that what you're aiming for? there must be some reason for your actions, so what is it?
it sounds like a spat between jilted lovers on a soap tbh
Crensch ago
There is. I already told you they're not really up for discussion at this point.
Kek.
All right. Let me know in a week or two if this aged well for you.
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
cooler heads prevail as they say, so I'm certainly not worried
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Dismember ago
kevdude is far from perfect i know it more than anyone I guess. BUt his heart is in the right place and his ideals have helped keep this place from being reddit 2.0. Many forget the amount of mods that we helped remove here but surely you don't. Would you really wan't those mods back and do you really think that banning people like @zyklonb would stop them doing what they did?
Crensch ago
I kinda doubt it. No offense or anything. I want to like the guy, but he keeps digging his heels in when he's clearly wrong, and lying/gaslighting any chance he gets.
It just keeps getting worse for him. Not because we're wrong, but because he motivates us to find the next instance of him being not only wrong, but dishonest about it.
I'm not so sure.
An impressive number. And it makes me sick that I want to revisit those and see if I still agree or not.
I don't know. I'm not sure the question is valid at this point.
The zyklon/srayzie thing was going to happen. It makes me chuckle at how stuck on that everyone is.
I'm not sure I care if it would stop them, so much as I care that the current PV guidelines do nothing but fetter mods that would like to keep them from shitting on the carpet. The shitposters will keep pushing the envelope and testing the lines until they can find something to whine to kevdude about.
Dismember ago
So you think the answer is to copy the unsuccessful smear campaigns by trolls of the past instead of initiating an adult conversation about those guidelines? I will tell you right now which one I think would be more successful and its not some hit piece of an OP like this. This turns me off more than anything. It's petty drama. People on Voat are not stupid. If you can convince them of your position and why you think it is a better idea than what is the current one, then they will take your side on it.
Vindicator ago
You seriously believe that the insane retaliation documented here for my legitimate criticism of Kev to Kev in a conversation about his lying and fomenting drama is "petty drama" and a "hit piece".
That is amazing.
Dismember ago
That is what it comes across as yes. I think both you and @crensch may have some valid points to make about PV policies and the way Voat as a whole handles trolls and neuters mods and I'd like to hear it and I'd also like to hear the other goats and listen to what they say about it. I don't really care for the back and forwards drama which is why I usually flair any shit like this from ANY source meta-drama.
You obviously write well, so I'm asking you if you would make something that tells me exactly what you think is wrong and how you think it might be fixed, then we can all weigh in on it.
MolochHunter ago
so trolls impersonate moderators in an attempt to destroy their reputations and the credibility of their subverses, Kev either knowingly facilitates this or is sucked in by it but refuses to take responsibility for being sucked in, and you think we should all just shrug our shoulders ?
is that how you intend to look? bc thats how you look.
followthemoney ago
Switch kev with Vin in your statement and it is interchangeable.
Dismember ago
Yea, I don't think it matters that much that @kevdude might have made a bad call on a user a year ago when he was trying to restore faith in the mod group and I've seen his explanation for it and since I was involved back then I accept it because it matches what I remember. The good he does far outweighs trivial drama all because a girl is upset on the internet.
What would you do if a user made a name mocking you? Because I've had it done to me on this site and my response was to point it out and laugh. It's a big bad world out there.
Vindicator ago
I am willing to do that to the best of my ability, yes.
I am not sure what exactly is wrong or why, which makes it very difficult to propose solutions. I keep looking at the effects or symptoms and talking about those and getting attacked for it -- to the tune today of a full-on disinfo campaign directed against me personally, which I was then blamed for.
I'm honestly at a loss as to where to start at this point.
Rainy-Day-Dream ago
/thread tbh
come back after you sleep on it fren
Dismember ago
That's about where I am right now. I'd love to hear what the dangers are of continuing as we are now and how that might affect Voat going forward. Up until now ignoring the retards and making sure your personal info is safe has been enough to mitigate any threat the shitposters pose. I just don't think they matter much but I'm happy to hear any thoughts otherwise.
Also if I inadvertently piled onto some sort of attack against you that wasn't my intention. I've only seen you post here today and commented on this in isolation from anything else that has been going on. I remember you from the v/pizzagate issues a year or so back and you seemed pretty fair and level-headed back then.
Crensch ago
Is not a pattern of falsehood important for those presumably part of a subverse here to "protect voat"?
I can tell you exactly which one will be more successful. Don't try to force your definition of success on me, it won't stick.
Seeing your leader lie and avoid accountability will do that.
It's more important than you know.
Apparently, people on Voat are far more stupid than I ever knew. You know I'm not the average bear. I think you know it's more than that.
I can. And I will. These things have a certain order to them.
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Dismember ago
Not really. @kevdude is one guy but ProtectVoat is a lot more than that. I want to hear other people opinions about what you propose before I make up my mind if it's good or not.
Alright, then call me when you get to that point because I'm not really interested in this part. To me it's all just drama.
Crensch ago
I don't really propose anything. I don't have any reason to. I'm here to destroy the status-quo.
Happy to rebuild after that, but what's currently there, and the enforcement of it up to this point, is nothing but pro-SBBH crap.
Then I can count on your absence in all of this up to that point?
Dismember ago
And there it is. I'm not going to help you tear down the walls or stand idly by and watch you tear them down until I know what you plan to replace them with. I fear the unknown much more than I fear the possibility of kevdude being a serial liar. Until you can convince each one of us that you have some solid ideas of how to move forward then you won't get much support.
I can't tell you what I will do tomorrow. Hopefully I see better than this thread.
Crensch ago
Nothing is better than what we've had up to now.
So if you won't stand idly by, you'll engage?
Fear is a funny thing. I fear others being put under the same PV yoke moving forward.
I don't need your support. I don't need anyone's support beyond what I already have.
And my support are all better equipped than anyone on your side to fight this fight.
I'll even tell you exactly how this ends:
PV gets shattered, and nothing is there to take its place. The former is a foregone conclusion; the latter is because you all refuse to have your discussion, pending Putt's return, or my involvement.
Dismember ago
Discussion about what exactly? This is the part I'm missing. What is it that you want?
Crensch ago
I don't want anything. I'm telling you what's going to happen.
Seguver-whatever wanted a discussion about the next iteration of the PV dogma.
If y'all don't do that, there won't be a PV left to try and create one.
Dismember ago
If @sguevar started that conversation then it actually is already happening, no?
Oh and you do want something. I have been reading 4-5 days of your comments so far and you want something badly. I just haven't worked out exactly what is is yet and you aren't willing to tell me straight. Time will tell on all these things or perhaps I'm talking to the wrong person entirely.
Like I've said to you before, my inbox is always open if you feel like using it. I still love you guys and yes that includes you @Cynabuns
Crensch ago
Want something?
Hmm... Yes. I want to destroy the current paradigm entirely. There are some other things that I have not yet revealed, so you are correct.
I'd still buy you a beer, too. I'd probably even buy kevdude a beer. That kind of time isn't nothing despite how badly the break is going to get.
I have no idea. The guy could make wingsuit base jumping boring with his words.
Dismember ago
Someone is having fun with the downvotes I see. Also I missed a bunch of your and @vindicator's comment replies earlier. I guess I hit the red button and read the top comment reply and navigated away and it's marked them all as read. I'll read them all when I get time.
Vindicator ago
This happens to me all the time, especially when trying to keep up by phone. I wish all notifications were "mark as read".
Crensch ago
I've not downvoted you once.
Users seem galvanized on both sides of this, and while I'd prefer the ones on my side didn't downvote certain users, it's not really my place to tell them what to do with their votes.
I hate when that happens.
Dismember ago
They aren't as savage as those SBBH guys, they got really butthurt when I flaired their shit as off-topic the other day. To be fair I only flaired their thread and no others at first for a bit of fun to see what they'd do, so I probably deserved it.
Crensch ago
It's very interesting to note what they do and do not attack.
Crensch ago
@bopper [M] @sguevar [M]
See parent. And parent of parent.
thelma ago
"Rule Violation in v/GreatAwakening: Quality Submission Posts Only
I see....
https://coub.com/view/h3dlj
sguevar ago
At this point I am not interested in your account of those events. Not because I don't find your opinion important but because the approach taken by you and your supporters is not really in the best interest of the platform.
You are entitled to your opinion as all of those users that you are denouncing on your posts' links. But so are they and if you don't like their opinions you will have to find a way to deal with them yourself.
These hit pieces that I are constantly being done here at Voat from your side (yes that includes all of the users that have engaged in such behaviors) are honestly not looking to better the situation but to find a way to slander, attack and harass using the same methods the users you denounced in the past used to what purpose? Demoding @kevdude? Shutting down v/ProtectVoat?
The only thing you guys are showing here is that you are willing to turn on anyone that don't feel like you about how the situation was handled with srayzie that even continue with the false narrative that she was doxxed. Enough proof was provided that she engaged in self-inflicted doxx and that no user used any illegal means to obtain her information.
Do we condone the action? No. We have publicly stated so and many of us defended her but engaging in the same behavior that your "enemies" engaged on is not going to improve the situation for anyone here, and certainly not for your side. Why? Because you will achieve nothing with it.
I wish you all nothing but good, but if you can't move on and try to get things better for the future, the problem doesn't really lie on PV, but on yourselves.
MolochHunter ago
'dont blame us rats for queuing up to fuck that rat in the ass. Its the rats own fault for getting stuck in the rat trap. See if Srayzie hadnt gone in to sniff that cheese we wouldnt be in this position where we took turns fucking her in the ass'
just wow.
sguevar ago
As I said to you before. The fact that you have pushed and continue pushing a false narrative at convenience of your already corrupted cause makes you quite a questionable mod to my eyes. But your indignation and logic are really not something I am interesting in continue addressing.
Crensch ago
The lead mod of your sub here is a pathological liar, and refuses to take any responsibility for his actions.
Kek. See above.
sguevar ago
So he hasn;t accepted the errors he made in the past in none of the comments he has made to your claims, this is what you are telling me?
And you haven't been prove to be someone that justifies his means to achieve what he wants? Nitpicking what he wants to take out of context at convenience of his own narrative? You are not behaving in an irrational behavior and you have not engaged in the same way the people you fought against in the past did...
I already what I am interested in pursuing but as I stated you. I will stand in the middle of your enterprise to reduce the damage you do to Voat, as empty as it sounds to you, that is a fact.
Have a good one.
Crensch ago
You tell me if these links ring true to you.
I literally link you to the offending post. How do I take it out of context? You're so dishonest it's insane.
I respond exactly as I always have to bullshit. If you don't see that, it's your own problem.
"I'll stop you!" the sneeze says to the typhoon.
Vindicator ago
Sguevar, "my supporters" are too afraid to speak up on these matters, because of the abuse they've seen heaped on me. You have no idea what "my supporters" think.
And which events are you refering to? The events this submission focuses on, which I documented meticulously? You don't need to trust my "account" of them. I linked you to every single thing that went down, step by step.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point I have been trying to make, here. There is no civil authority to appeal to for chicanery on Voat. People have to "find a way do deal with them" themselves. The Gangs of Voat.
This wasn't a hit piece, sguevar. It was a blow-by-blow rundown of what happened when I challenged the owner of this subverse about lies he was telling. I said nothing that is not true and verifiable by any third party.
How is it, exactly, that @Kevdude gets to go around making all kinds of assertions without any supporting evidence and those who dare challenge him instantly -- within minutes -- get fake accounts made in their name, followed by hit pieces in Anon subverses, which he then cites in further evidence-free claims? Why is this okay?
Your unwillingness to deal with this fact leaves you with no credibility.
I have never claimed srayzie was doxxed. Shame on you for repeating this falsity. I said she was relentlessly attacked, starting over a year ago, for a shitshow directly caused by Kev's irresponsibility and cowardice. I was the one who had the doxxing bounty put on my head first, not srayzie. I reported it and Voat did not care.
Nowhere, at any time, have I engaged in the behavior I have declaimed. Show me one place.
How you can in good conscience make such claims against me with no evidence I cannot understand.
sguevar ago
As I said at this point I don't care.
The Gangs of Voat? Seriously you are taking this approach? So apparently to you, you are the only one that have been ganged up against? You are the only one that is being harassed as a mod? You are the only one that we should listen?
And apparently you are the only one that is pinged on anon subs talking shit about you? You are now making a hypothetical statement surrounded by circumstantial anecdotes of alts being created to harass you. Well done that shows well on your own credibility. Are you telling me that we should find a way to stop people from making alts? I am sorry but I already expressed my position on alts multiple times and that remains on an individuals' choice that I can only state it opens the door to dishonest behavior. But you are implying here that they are alts used by kevdude to attack you or by people working for him... like really you want me to believe all that? Is it possible, yes it is possible. Is it verifiable, so far you haven't shown it is....
You have defended that narrative at convenience of you looking to get Zyklon_B banned using even an unverified claim he did it off Voat, and if I recall correctly you stated "so you would harbor a known troublemaker on here because he didn't do it on your own house?" (paraphrasing)
And criticising it is not what I am against of, including the fact that he in some comments he has made during all of this interactions does accept he made errors in the past but continuing with this approach instead of finding a different path to prevent it from happening again is the reason why at this point I don't care. It is not going to help your cause and as stated you are engaging on the very same behavior and methods your "enemies" engaged on, including "ganging up" on kev and PV at this point.
Besides the situation that happened with u/thewebofslime that I already expressed my views at that time I have no other information on that and again, did the doxx occur? If it did, when? If your argument is based on "their intent" how can we prove their intent if there isn't any other proof than your own statement. Basically what you are asking us to do following this claim is following the same trend of the #Metoo movement - believe all women... without proof just believe them.
I see so none of this that you and your supporters are engaging on has the sole purpose to gang up against kevdude and PV at all. It has Voats best interests at hand as you seem to only address your dissatisfaction with kev and showing a personal endeavor to attack him.
That is your opinion. Should I pursue your ban because I disagree with it?
Vindicator ago
I direct linked to Hojuruku's comment history showing him putting up a bounty for anyone who could dox me. You are seething with so much disdain for the tough truth I'm bringing here that you didn't even bother to click my link to proof. Think about that. That is exactly the kind of one-sided, biased, blind negligence I am trying to point out.
No, he did not succeed in doxing me. He fully intended to, though, and pledged money to make it happen. I reported his activities to Putt, and several people reported them here. Nothing was done, due to a ridiculously narrow definition of "Doxing". It was wrong, and it sent a clear message to all the users of v/pizzagate that despite Voat's User Agreement, Voat is most certainly not a place where user's privacy is safeguarded.
Hojuruku's actions led several users in pizzagate who were concerned I would eventually get doxed to engage him and become his target themselves. One of those was srayzie. The message she took away from what happened to me was that he needed to be harassed until he left. That was the only acceptable solution as far as Protect Voat was concerned. And she succeeded. It directly contributed the most recent turmoil. I should add that she did that all on her own, not because I asked her to or thought it was a good idea. I told her and others who tried to defend me that I was accepted the risk of being doxed the day I took the mod mantle at v/pizzagate. I updated my life insurance policy and my will. My family made the decision it was worth the risk.
And yes, I absolutely DO think that if there is credible evidence that a user is doxing someone or making serious efforts to get someone doxed here or on another platform, they should be sitewide banned immediately. I was clear about that before, so don't pretend I'm being coy about it.
If you are going to keep acting like I am making unsubstantiated claims with zero legitimacy and being triggered by everything I say, you should block me so it doesn't tempt you to make Protect Voat look even worse than it already does.
You are not reading what I write in good faith.
sguevar ago
As stated before, when I said I didn't care anymore it was because of the approach you took. I don't mind the criticism and as stated also, is not that I don't find your position unimportant. But i am tired of seeing the approach you have taken, supporting the attacks on PV and psecifically to @kevdude because like @Crensch you didn't see another way to do it.
Your approach is confrontational. It is not the one of a dialogue, at some point anyone will get tired of you and will stop putting attention to your claims because you focus on your own disdain against kev and PV.
The user in question got banned again. Kev apologized for his fuck up. In more than one occasion he has done it and we all agree that there are voids that need to be filled in order to prevent the shit show we have been having for a while now. But your approach wasn't the one of taking a dialogue it was of "fuck it, lets bring them down" out of frustration instead of working with us.
You and Crensch both have called me dishonest and tried to also attack my credibility and yet you haven't shown any form of dialogue but just continue to attack kev and PV for that matter using the same type of methods that were used against you.
I have seen alts of other users created even here at Voat to troll the main account like tallest_Skil - tallest_skill and tallest_shill. And yet I don't see that user victimizing himself on a post of "what was done to him over the 24 hours". I am not seeing that user accusing others of making those alts to attack him or that they are users working for that person he thinks is behind it. However I have seen you do it. The same way that CerealBrain stated that most of the users on the ZB's subverse are his alts just because of his own perception of things and no hard proof of the matter. If you see that as being a well documented matter and not simple circumstantial evidence that holds no ground on an objective analysis then the problem doesn't really lie with me at this point.
Though the concern is a valid one, and had I been there I would have probably defended you and most likely defended his ban, resorting in the same tactics doesn't aid your cause and that is when I say you corrupt it. This is why she lost the battle against her trolls. She kept feeding them and corrupted her cause with convenience. You may again feel offended when I see this, but it may very well be because you don't get it. When someone acts with the approach of the "end justifies the means" even when that implies scarificing the support, possible friendships of others just to get what one wants is a selfish approach.
I wasn't at PV then and I don't agree with you now. I am here now and I intend to fight for what I know is right thanks to my faith. I will stand by the truth and I will remain objective. I will not resort in the same tactics than my detractors and as stated before also, I will stand in the middle so we can reach an accord and we can work to improve.
Well this is a corrupt pretence. I mean, the hojuruku's situation has apparent sufficient evidence for a ban as it is inciting harm on you clearly, asking others to doxx you with the clear intent of bringing you down. But ZB's is not.
There are only allege attempts of said actions and the previous situation with srayzie is clearly not a doxxing effort because she doxxed herself. And if you continue through this path justifying a sitewide ban for ZB and Trigglypuff then that would have been hypocritical because there was enough evidence to proof that there wasn't any doxxing and that would have been entering into a slippery slope that could also get banned antiliberalsociety just because he shows how corrupt TexasVet is with his posts.
I have criticised your approach. Not your claims. Your approach corrupts your cause and if you don't see this then that is on you not me. Why would I block you? What is the purpose of blocking you when I hardly have blocked anyone here at Voat, including my detractors. And being triggered? That made me laugh because the one getting triggered by what I am asking him to stop and initiate a dialogue is you because I criticised your approach. Hmm, I wonder, doesn't that make you become the very same type of person that you so vehemently are trying to criticise with your posts? Amazing...
My faith goes to Jesus alone, not to men. My stand is with the truth and with an objective approach to get this worked at and yet you keep getting offended for what I am telling you. So again that is on you. But if i have offended you before and even now, I will apologise for that is not my intent. But truth makes people uncomfortable and yet it has the power to rend them free. So...
NOMOCHOMO ago
what about the Pedos who troll Pizzagate like Rob Robinson?
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1648437/8058417
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1609813
your rules would get pizzagate users banned for policing their sub
It sounds like you're only advocating censorship because your identity is threatened.
@shewhomustbeobeyed
Vindicator ago
Take a look at the ban log. Rob the Pedo is not a Goat. His only activity on Voat was to troll pizzagate. Also, he was not doxed anywhere publicly. He was reported to law enforcement.
Yes. I advocate censorship for those who expose or wage campaigns to expose Voater identities. They should have no right to use the platform.
NOMOCHOMO ago
his pics and vids were spread. wasn't that the same "dox" that happened to srayzie?
I see where you're coming from here. I think, however, that you have to accept that risk whenever you get on the internet and take personal precautions
everything else conditions the userbase into less and less secure behavior.
While I dont advocate for that kind of behavior, I think to make it grounds for banning will only lead to further and further censorship.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
Lost me on this point.
NOMOCHOMO ago
pizzagaters doxxed rob Robinson when he began spamming the sub
should they have been removed? even tho they doxxed a pedo?
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
It's late and i could be wrong but i thought that we reported on him first and then he came to voat. Not dox.
A user named karenrussell doxxed a shitload of pedos who then came here to scream about it. Putt removed the doxxed info because it is policy, he did not ban karenrussell for dox.
NOMOCHOMO ago
I fear any expansion of the definition of doxing as it can be applied to stifle information dissemination.
Is it "Doxing" to tie a username to an IRL identity if the username doesn't state it for themeselves?
I understand the order of events re: rob. But I also understand he ran many alts.
I fear expansion of doxing could be misinterpreted to delete users for revealing other users alts.
Technically each username/account represents a separate user agreement with voat.
So If Tom Cruise had a public username and a secret alt, would it be doxing for a 3rd party to reveal the secret alt?
Also I really dont think doxing is a crime. It's shitty behavior sure, but if I knew that James Alefantis had a username on voat, I'd dox him.
should I be banned for that?
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
He does and we did. 2 yrs ago.
You weren't here at the time.
NOMOCHOMO ago
that's my point. With Vindicators proposed rule change, ya'll would be kicked off voat for doxxing Alefantis.
I know, I'm speaking in a hypothetical to explain my point.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
For the record, I don't think doxxing is a crime either. Bring my real life children into it, i'll be the one committing the crime.
I am not interested in this subject.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
Speaking of that crazy SOB hojuruku, found something odd. His new alts point counts don't add up to me.
Maybe @argosciv or @MadWorld could explain it to me. I know he has IT skills.
This alt. GayLobbyLovesPedos
Vindicator ago
That fucker is still here?! Great.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
Yes he is. Maybe I'll turn him on to IQ boy here.
He might like having a 'special' friend.
SandHog ago
Anyone defending hojuruku should neck themselves. He is on video admitting he downloaded cp.
@MadWorld
NOMOCHOMO ago
could you link that plz.
SandHog ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqkjFcEE5dA
RockmanRaiden ago
Sguevar's rational for "maintaining" the platform doesn't line up with the actions or lack thereof. Neither does Putts. Voat got played and the "authorities" here refuse to fix the problems. So do the users for continuing to engage. Just fucking block each other and ban the disturbances off the platform. Like they do in the public sphere, disturbances are removed. Especially when they're toxic to the community.
RockmanRaiden ago
How many times does this conversation need to play out? What is the misunderstanding here? Lies continuing to be pushed as truth and then corrected. Over and over. Noone wants to deal with this shit anymore. It's over.
Crensch ago
Lying and misrepresenting your actions on a very dark time of PG... right. Because you believe in PV.
Crensch ago
I'll hold myself accountable if you do.
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xenoPsychologist ago
women dont belong in political movements of any sort. they wait until it seems successful to attach themselves, then they only do it for the male attention they get through it. finally, theyll throw any and every one of their white knights in the movement under the bus and/or sell it all out at the first opportunity.
this isnt "mean ol' sexism" talking. this is objective truth that replays its self over and over. when you white knight for them, you enable their narcissistic behavior. all while being guaranteed to never get a taste of their cooter holes. you weak gamma males ruin every attempt to get things dont by worshiping the holes on legs.
are there really still goats suffering from the feminism-generated delusions about women? they dont belong in justice nor politics.
Crensch ago
Of course they don't.
Here's some white knights and delusions and gamma males you can go after, too:
https://voat.co/v/SBBHTantrums/3253139
https://voat.co/v/SBBHTantrums/3255509
And it's quite clear after my submission on him that literally anyone associating with zyklon is a Jew/nigger/degenerate supporter.
Do they get a tongue lashing?
xenoPsychologist ago
depends on whether the tongue lashing is a euphemism or not! joking around aside.
ugh, yes. the trigglypuff faction is getting played just as hard. maybe harder. nothing they did seems like it was necessary at all.
and i dont know why we (any of us, as i have made the mistake more than once, myself) let them influence us. they should be making white babies instead of piggybacking on the success of our efforts with things, only to tear it down for the drama. i like women as much as the next guy, but they have a bit of a history by now. and we collectively act pretty dumb anytime they look our way. we are supposed to be the responsible ones, but here we are turning on each other.
im sure most goats got comfortable with him before finding out he is either playing the role of or actually a
Jew/nigger/degenerate. i have a bit of trouble keeping who is who sorted out, as far as which circles they run in and who they support. i should be making more use of the AVE tags to try to keep things straight, but i never remember.i wonder if i can use a break, i might be starting to get irritable toward people who arent earning the actual hostility. im sure good goats can take it in stride, though. theres good goats on both side of the issue, and more important issues for use to be talking about than chick drama.
i dont actually know what im saying anymore. im tired. works been rough and its only gonna get busier for a few months. ill think about it when im rested.
Hand_of_Node ago
Still can't get the factions sorted out.
xenoPsychologist ago
550? not even remotely. like, seven. maybe. i forget about it quite often.
Hand_of_Node ago
Used to have a time-consuming protocol with an included link, and color for various categories, but you can cut it down to under 10 seconds by just highlighting a phrase (when quoting) and copying, then click the tag icon, paste, and save.
xenoPsychologist ago
i see. thanks.
Crensch ago
Take care of yourself IRL, bud.
Don't fall for their narrative. It's so much more than that.
The "chick drama" was nothing more than the sneeze that started the tempest on the other side of the world.
The above link? That's a pattern of behaviour. A consistent one. Zero accountability.
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xenoPsychologist ago
huh. that is interesting. i will have to consider that. theres always more to these things, isnt there? more angles. too many angles. its like the polyhedron that keeps on giving up in here!
lots to think about. maybe i should take up meditation or something.
thanks for the food for thought, though.
Crensch ago
Cheers, bud. Always a pleasure.
xenoPsychologist ago
good luck. i hope we can soon have a semblance of peace in our time! at least for a little while before the megajews find a way to get their minions up in our business again.
Crensch ago
Our society should trade in Jew heads.
xenoPsychologist ago
it might get a little bulky, but it would be worth it.
Crensch ago
Imagine the rich men having to carry very large sacks of rotting Jew heads to pay for things.
Kek.
Our children would be trained as Jew hunter-killers.
xenoPsychologist ago
i suppose it would encourage not hoarding it. what kind of buying power would it have?
save your jew heads for a sensible trade school! ha.
hurry up and spend your allowance, kid. its starting to smell.
Crensch ago
LOLOL
There would be a place you could take them to have them cleaned and the skulls branded with a lampshade-like marking, showing the skin was put to good use.
Thousands of $hekels, I'd assume, for each. You can toil away normally, or go hunt Jews for a quick fortune.
xenoPsychologist ago
and you can draw memes on them to honor those who fell in the great meme wars.
Crensch ago
https://files.catbox.moe/tswx7w.png @Dumb_Comment_Bot
Dumb_Comment_Bot ago
heehhe almost forgot that one
xenoPsychologist ago
oh, right! i remember seeing that some time ago. its probably the root that made me think that thought. its good work.
Crensch ago
Uhh, why is THIS nest getting downvotes?
Oh... Some Jew must be here!
xenoPsychologist ago
they are very very sneaky. and they know where we are.
Crensch ago
tl;dr
crickets
crickets
crickets
crickets
Need I go on?
Who's being emotional, kev? Who's being unreasonable?
Crensch ago
Fair.
Crensch ago
If he was trolled, you were trolled.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.