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Crensch ago

If I had any idea who he was I would not have lifted that. FFS no one recognized the name.

Your mods knew. Apparently, you did, too.

You know you aren't a particularly good debater. You're like the neighbor dog that just keeps barking. And barking. And barking.

You know that nobody buys that, right?

"Dude you made a mistake 2 years ago. DAE PV needs to go?"

"Dude, I've been doing this so long the statute of limitations must've hit?"

I keep forgetting that you're not here in good faith. You're just here to rip it all down, right?

I am always here for Voat.

Just because I disagree with your PV principles doesn't make me some supervillain.

Crensch ago

@PeaceSeeker [O] @Dismember [O] @cynoclast [M] @Rainy-Day-Dream [M] @SandHog [M]

I don't know if you noticed, but your lead mod is being exposed as a pathological liar, and someone incapable of taking responsibility for what he has done.

Any takers?

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

so far it just sounds like bitchy interpersonal drama, imo lotta heated accusations and insults without much substance. I'm gunna sit this one out till heads cool down.

Crensch ago

imo lotta heated accusations and insults without much substance.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree there, but I can't argue with sitting out. I might do the same in your position, but I certainly wouldn't claim my side is in any way lacking in substance.

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3258143/18997334

^look here op of this thread says in so many words "I am not sure what exactly is wrong or why, which makes it very difficult to propose solutions." and "I'm honestly at a loss as to where to start at this point."

where's the substance? everyone here needs to take the time to calm down and think and then we'll sit down and try to have a productive big boy conversation when people are feeling mature enough for it

Crensch ago

Your example for lack of substance is someone not knowing where to go with the principles?

Try looking at what kevdude is up to; you might find a metric fuckton of substance. But only on one side.

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

really cuz when asked you provide https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3258143/18996719 wherein most of the examples yo give are from a single thread where he's taking to you. Forgive me if I take it as interpersonal drama.

and yes I think that qualifies as a lack of substance there's a number of people here yourself included that re very vocal that you don't approve of kevdude's words or actions but to what end? what should he do differently? what did you expect me or anyone else you pinged to do about him? what exactly is the point of all this?

Crensch ago

Forgive me if I take it as interpersonal drama.

Forgive me if I take each instance as dishonesty and evidence of a lack of moral character.

what should he do differently?

Maybe act like he's not morally bankrupt?

what exactly is the point of all this?

You don't see the point of exposing someone behaving like a Jew?

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

I mean again to what end? do you want him to behave more morally, or step down, etc. what exactly are you trying to accomplish with all this?

Crensch ago

He's more than welcome to start acting like a human at any point. I've been doing my damnedest to get some kind of humanity out of him and I have failed so far.

It's probably too late for that now. He's going to keep thinking that he can salvage something or manipulate something so he and his narrative can come out on top.

Seems he's not really capable of doing anything else. So I will probably have to destroy him along with his narrative.

There are multiple reasons why, but I'm not going to share them. You can pretend you don't care, and that it doesn't affect you, but you will, and it will.

You've been around long enough to see me be wrong once or twice. Does this look like one of those times?

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

He's more than welcome to start acting like a human at any point. I've been doing my damnedest to get some kind of humanity out of him and I have failed so far.

I mean is that what you're aiming for? there must be some reason for your actions, so what is it?

You've been around long enough to see me be wrong once or twice. Does this look like one of those times?

it sounds like a spat between jilted lovers on a soap tbh

Crensch ago

I mean is that what you're aiming for? there must be some reason for your actions, so what is it?

There is. I already told you they're not really up for discussion at this point.

it sounds like a spat between jilted lovers on a soap tbh

Kek.

All right. Let me know in a week or two if this aged well for you.

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

cooler heads prevail as they say, so I'm certainly not worried

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Dismember ago

kevdude is far from perfect i know it more than anyone I guess. BUt his heart is in the right place and his ideals have helped keep this place from being reddit 2.0. Many forget the amount of mods that we helped remove here but surely you don't. Would you really wan't those mods back and do you really think that banning people like @zyklonb would stop them doing what they did?

Crensch ago

kevdude is far from perfect i know it more than anyone I guess.

I kinda doubt it. No offense or anything. I want to like the guy, but he keeps digging his heels in when he's clearly wrong, and lying/gaslighting any chance he gets.

It just keeps getting worse for him. Not because we're wrong, but because he motivates us to find the next instance of him being not only wrong, but dishonest about it.

BUt his heart is in the right place and his ideals have helped keep this place from being reddit 2.0.

I'm not so sure.

Many forget the amount of mods that we helped remove here but surely you don't.

An impressive number. And it makes me sick that I want to revisit those and see if I still agree or not.

Would you really wan't those mods back

I don't know. I'm not sure the question is valid at this point.

and do you really think that banning people like @zyklonb would stop them doing what they did?

The zyklon/srayzie thing was going to happen. It makes me chuckle at how stuck on that everyone is.

I'm not sure I care if it would stop them, so much as I care that the current PV guidelines do nothing but fetter mods that would like to keep them from shitting on the carpet. The shitposters will keep pushing the envelope and testing the lines until they can find something to whine to kevdude about.

Dismember ago

So you think the answer is to copy the unsuccessful smear campaigns by trolls of the past instead of initiating an adult conversation about those guidelines? I will tell you right now which one I think would be more successful and its not some hit piece of an OP like this. This turns me off more than anything. It's petty drama. People on Voat are not stupid. If you can convince them of your position and why you think it is a better idea than what is the current one, then they will take your side on it.

Vindicator ago

You seriously believe that the insane retaliation documented here for my legitimate criticism of Kev to Kev in a conversation about his lying and fomenting drama is "petty drama" and a "hit piece".

That is amazing.

Dismember ago

That is what it comes across as yes. I think both you and @crensch may have some valid points to make about PV policies and the way Voat as a whole handles trolls and neuters mods and I'd like to hear it and I'd also like to hear the other goats and listen to what they say about it. I don't really care for the back and forwards drama which is why I usually flair any shit like this from ANY source meta-drama.

You obviously write well, so I'm asking you if you would make something that tells me exactly what you think is wrong and how you think it might be fixed, then we can all weigh in on it.

MolochHunter ago

so trolls impersonate moderators in an attempt to destroy their reputations and the credibility of their subverses, Kev either knowingly facilitates this or is sucked in by it but refuses to take responsibility for being sucked in, and you think we should all just shrug our shoulders ?

is that how you intend to look? bc thats how you look.

followthemoney ago

Switch kev with Vin in your statement and it is interchangeable.

Dismember ago

Yea, I don't think it matters that much that @kevdude might have made a bad call on a user a year ago when he was trying to restore faith in the mod group and I've seen his explanation for it and since I was involved back then I accept it because it matches what I remember. The good he does far outweighs trivial drama all because a girl is upset on the internet.

What would you do if a user made a name mocking you? Because I've had it done to me on this site and my response was to point it out and laugh. It's a big bad world out there.

Vindicator ago

You obviously write well, so I'm asking you if you would make something that tells me exactly what you think is wrong and how you think it might be fixed, then we can all weigh in on it.

I am willing to do that to the best of my ability, yes.

I am not sure what exactly is wrong or why, which makes it very difficult to propose solutions. I keep looking at the effects or symptoms and talking about those and getting attacked for it -- to the tune today of a full-on disinfo campaign directed against me personally, which I was then blamed for.

I'm honestly at a loss as to where to start at this point.

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

I am not sure what exactly is wrong or why, which makes it very difficult to propose solutions

/thread tbh

come back after you sleep on it fren

Dismember ago

I am not sure what exactly is wrong or why

That's about where I am right now. I'd love to hear what the dangers are of continuing as we are now and how that might affect Voat going forward. Up until now ignoring the retards and making sure your personal info is safe has been enough to mitigate any threat the shitposters pose. I just don't think they matter much but I'm happy to hear any thoughts otherwise.

Also if I inadvertently piled onto some sort of attack against you that wasn't my intention. I've only seen you post here today and commented on this in isolation from anything else that has been going on. I remember you from the v/pizzagate issues a year or so back and you seemed pretty fair and level-headed back then.

Crensch ago

So you think the answer is to copy the unsuccessful smear campaigns by trolls of the past instead of initiating an adult conversation about those guidelines?

Is not a pattern of falsehood important for those presumably part of a subverse here to "protect voat"?

I will tell you right now which one I think would be more successful and its not some hit piece of an OP like this.

I can tell you exactly which one will be more successful. Don't try to force your definition of success on me, it won't stick.

This turns me off more than anything.

Seeing your leader lie and avoid accountability will do that.

It's petty drama.

It's more important than you know.

People on Voat are not stupid.

Apparently, people on Voat are far more stupid than I ever knew. You know I'm not the average bear. I think you know it's more than that.

If you can convince them of your position and why you think it is a better idea than what is the current one, then they will take your side on it.

I can. And I will. These things have a certain order to them.

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Dismember ago

Is not a pattern of falsehood important for those presumably part of a subverse here to "protect voat"?

Not really. @kevdude is one guy but ProtectVoat is a lot more than that. I want to hear other people opinions about what you propose before I make up my mind if it's good or not.

I can. And I will. These things have a certain order to them.

Alright, then call me when you get to that point because I'm not really interested in this part. To me it's all just drama.

Crensch ago

Not really. @kevdude is one guy but ProtectVoat is a lot more than that. I want to hear other people opinions about what you propose before I make up my mind if it's good or not.

I don't really propose anything. I don't have any reason to. I'm here to destroy the status-quo.

Happy to rebuild after that, but what's currently there, and the enforcement of it up to this point, is nothing but pro-SBBH crap.

Alright, then call me when you get to that point because I'm not really interested in this part. To me it's all just drama.

Then I can count on your absence in all of this up to that point?

Dismember ago

Happy to rebuild after that,

And there it is. I'm not going to help you tear down the walls or stand idly by and watch you tear them down until I know what you plan to replace them with. I fear the unknown much more than I fear the possibility of kevdude being a serial liar. Until you can convince each one of us that you have some solid ideas of how to move forward then you won't get much support.

Then I can count on your absence in all of this up to that point?

I can't tell you what I will do tomorrow. Hopefully I see better than this thread.

Crensch ago

And there it is. I'm not going to help you tear down the walls or stand idly by and watch you tear them down until I know what you plan to replace them with.

Nothing is better than what we've had up to now.

So if you won't stand idly by, you'll engage?

I fear the unknown much more than I fear the possibility of kevdude being a serial liar.

Fear is a funny thing. I fear others being put under the same PV yoke moving forward.

Until you can convince each one of us that you have some solid ideas of how to move forward then you won't get much support.

I don't need your support. I don't need anyone's support beyond what I already have.

And my support are all better equipped than anyone on your side to fight this fight.

I'll even tell you exactly how this ends:

PV gets shattered, and nothing is there to take its place. The former is a foregone conclusion; the latter is because you all refuse to have your discussion, pending Putt's return, or my involvement.

Dismember ago

the latter is because you all refuse to have your discussion

Discussion about what exactly? This is the part I'm missing. What is it that you want?

Crensch ago

I don't want anything. I'm telling you what's going to happen.

Seguver-whatever wanted a discussion about the next iteration of the PV dogma.

If y'all don't do that, there won't be a PV left to try and create one.

Dismember ago

If @sguevar started that conversation then it actually is already happening, no?

Oh and you do want something. I have been reading 4-5 days of your comments so far and you want something badly. I just haven't worked out exactly what is is yet and you aren't willing to tell me straight. Time will tell on all these things or perhaps I'm talking to the wrong person entirely.

Like I've said to you before, my inbox is always open if you feel like using it. I still love you guys and yes that includes you @Cynabuns

Crensch ago

Oh and you do want something. I have been reading 4-5 days of your comments so far and you want something badly. I just haven't worked out exactly what is is yet and you aren't willing to tell me straight. Time will tell on all these things or perhaps I'm talking to the wrong person entirely.

Want something?

Hmm... Yes. I want to destroy the current paradigm entirely. There are some other things that I have not yet revealed, so you are correct.

Like I've said to you before, my inbox is always open if you feel like using it. I still love you guys and yes that includes you

I'd still buy you a beer, too. I'd probably even buy kevdude a beer. That kind of time isn't nothing despite how badly the break is going to get.

If @sguevar started that conversation then it actually is already happening, no?

I have no idea. The guy could make wingsuit base jumping boring with his words.

Dismember ago

Someone is having fun with the downvotes I see. Also I missed a bunch of your and @vindicator's comment replies earlier. I guess I hit the red button and read the top comment reply and navigated away and it's marked them all as read. I'll read them all when I get time.

Vindicator ago

I guess I hit the red button and read the top comment reply and navigated away and it's marked them all as read.

This happens to me all the time, especially when trying to keep up by phone. I wish all notifications were "mark as read".

Crensch ago

I've not downvoted you once.

Users seem galvanized on both sides of this, and while I'd prefer the ones on my side didn't downvote certain users, it's not really my place to tell them what to do with their votes.

I hate when that happens.

Dismember ago

They aren't as savage as those SBBH guys, they got really butthurt when I flaired their shit as off-topic the other day. To be fair I only flaired their thread and no others at first for a bit of fun to see what they'd do, so I probably deserved it.

Crensch ago

It's very interesting to note what they do and do not attack.

Crensch ago

@bopper [M] @sguevar [M]

See parent. And parent of parent.