The silly title of our investigation and the extrememly silly definition both came from the NYTimes, whose only source for their definition (HRC running a sex slave ring frmo the basement of Comet) was a single comment underneath a post from some random guy on Facebook.
I detailed all of this in a series of 3 posts here on Voat, but they have disappeared. So it might be important to call more attention to some facts...
From Steemit: The Debunking of The New York Times' Debunking of Pizzagate
Analysis
We need only look at the first sentence of this supposedly objective article to uncover the first piece of misinformation.
In the span of a few weeks, a false rumor that Hillary Clinton
and her top aides were involved in various crimes snowballed
into a wild conspiracy theory that they were running a
child-trafficking ring out of a Washington pizza parlor.
No one--or at least no one credible--is asserting that Hillary Clinton and her top aides (meaning John Podesta and co.) are running a child-trafficking ring out of Comet Ping Pong Pizza. It has merely been alleged--and not without merit--that they are involved in a paedophile ring. It's also not a widely held theory that this child-trafficking ring is being run specifically out of Comet Ping Pong Pizza. A better representation of the theory would be to state that Comet is alleged to be a paedophile-friendly environment which invites paedophile-friendly bands to perform there, and has curious ties to the government establishment in Washington DC.
Please read the rest here
Zorrilla ago
I wasn't there at the very inception of this scandal, as I started looking into it on November 4th, 2016, but as I recall, the term Pizzagate was not in wide usage at that point. The first usage of the term may have been by Instagram user "Pizzagate2016", who created the account to annoy Alefantis on IG before he set his account to private.
Vindicator ago
Pretty sure the term was coined by the guy who created a seperate subverse for the Podesta email investigation when he created the r/pizzagate subreddit so T_D wouldn't get shut down. Here's his account of how it went down: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2250456.
MeatballPizza ago
"Pizzagate" was in wide use pre-NYT. It began on Reddit (The_Donald and later a specific thread dedicated to "Pizzagate" which was axed a few weeks in by Reddit). It was also active on 4chan. It was all an outgrowth of the "Spirit Cooking" discussions.
This was a Vietnam-style guerilla political warfare effort. Hillary was attacked with a number of funny memes (one highlighting her desire to have women register for the draft and serve in the military via a draft) and weaponized conspiracy theories.
There were great visuals with Spirit Cooking. Those could be memed and shared on facebook, 4chan, reddit, and emailed around. There was no way Hillary/Podesta could explain Satanic rituals as "art" to middle America. There was nothing they could say. Their rejection of legitimate questions was gasoline on that fire.
Then they really had no explanation for the Instagram photos and comments. So the stories ignored it. The memes and images circulated and there were no real explanations. The Podesta emails (his personal emails) with the odd pizza language had no real explanation. The art collection John's brother had was also repulsive and great images to win over voters.
This was a political 'shock and awe' campaign that spread like wildfire. It was particularly effective keeping African-American voters from showing up to support Hillary. Their record-shattering Obama turnout got him elected the second time around as that was a close race.
NYT denying it and Snopes, etc. debunking just showed they were part of the conspiracy. That's the beauty of a great conspiracy theory: if you deny it, you're part of the conspiracy.
Realizing how effective it was, Podesta decided to create their own conspiracy theory when they lost. Election night the great Russian Conspiracy Theory was born and we've been stuck there with the MSM ever since. There's no evidence the Russians ever hacked anything (DNC refused to hand over the servers; Lisa Page now says China did the actual hacking), but it doesn't matter. If you question our FBI/CIA, then you're part of the conspiracy. You're supporting the enemies of America. A plausible conspiracy theory as a political weapon.
Matt_Helm ago
Brilliant analysis you nailed it perfectly well done.
DeathToMasonsASAP ago
To my memory, Reddit PG sub existed before the NYT hack piece. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
YogSoggoth ago
They called us Indians because they thought they had reached India from the Atlantic. We adopted it, and still call each other Injuns, just as Black skinned people call themselves niggers. No difference. Pizzagate is catchy, and attracted people who like pizza out of curiosity. Pedogate works too.
Are_we_sure ago
The pizzagate forums were well established before the New York Times wrote anything.
This is a perfect example of the logical fallacy known as No True Scotsman.
You blame the media for having trouble making sense of what pizzagate is. The blame actually lies in the total incoherence of the original argument and the means of investigation. Basically if we change all the meanings of words we can make someone's inbox look really sinister and then blame them for it.
Vindicator ago
You're deliberately missing VZ's point. He's saying the investigation only started with weird emails like the "handkerchief" with a "pizza-related map" on it. Millions of people wouldn't have given this more than a passing glance...except it turned out that Tony Podesta actually has a collection of pedo art, including images of a man raping an infant on top of a spread out handkerchief to catch the telltale genetic evidence. Suddenly that nonsensical email ("Who draws a map to a pizza place on a handkerchief? WTF?") has a very clear, logical and horrifying meaning. So don't be coy and lecture us about Fake Scotsmen fallacies. You are merely continuing the same tactic the NYT used: define the situation in terms you can discard.
Are_we_sure ago
Omg.
I can't believe you moderate this board. That is completely false.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
https://archive.fo/Uavwz
MeatballPizza ago
It began as a Reddit thread on The_Donald. Then was split off there and then was closed down there and came here.
The lying about what it was all about was from Day 1. That's what they do.
V____Z ago
I think timing wise, it didn't actually begin on Reddit. But we might be talking a matter of days or even hours. This was likely a coordinated effort to litter the internet with this term. Maybe the term came from Reddit, but the NYT was the first to make up the definition as we know it today, does that seem correct?
Are_we__sure ago
This was likely a coordinated effort to litter the internet with this term. Maybe the term came from Reddit, but the NYT was the first to make up the definition as we know it today, does that seem correct?
This false. Pizzagate was in such wide circulation, that this Turkish journalist was referencing the Pizzagate hashtag in mid-November.
@Mehmet_Ali_ONEL Follow Follow @Mehmet_Ali_ONEL More Mehmet Ali ÖNEL Retweeted Satanist pedofilci #PizzaGate rezaletinde ABD tepe isimleri konuşuluyor. Yıllardır bilinen rezalet şimdi patlatiliyor. O da ayrı bir rezalet 3:45 AM - 16 Nov 2016
https://twitter.com/Mehmet_Ali_ONEL/status/798854388462694400
V____Z ago
Referencing the hashtag is not the same as giving the definition, so what exactly is your argument?
Are_we_sure ago
My argument is the very title of this thread is completely false and it's very easy to prove your argument is false. And referencing the hashtag means it had to already be in use and people knew what the reference was too. If people understood the reference, it could be defined.
Both of these claims are false.
as is this one
People were going to Comet Ping Pong and videoing the place and trying to claim locked liquor storage which is common throughout the restaurant industry were cages for children. Not only were they making this claim, they made it over and over and over and over again.
Here's a challenge for you. Define what pizzagate was in 2016 in a sentence that would makes sense to a newspaper reader who has never been on Reddit.
V____Z ago
You can't be serious.
It might be possible to do this with a series of words.
Podesta log in: "password"
Leaked emails
Code words: pedophilia
Abromovich
chicken sacrifice to Mollock
torture chamber
kids in the heated pool, for John Podesta's "entertainment"
$65K for hot dogs shipped to the White House from Chicago
Are_we_sure ago
Then you can see the problem a reporter would have summarizing how people came to believe in some child trafficking ring.
Almost every item on this list is wrong or misinterpreted. Leaked emails is the only thing that's correct.
Podesta's gmail password was not password and no one simply guessed his password. His gmail password was actually Runner4657. Podesta's emails were hacked through a spearfishing campaign that also targeted a lot of other people Colin Powell's emails were also hacked.
All of your other stuff is not evidence but claims. Claims for which you have no evidence. There are no code words used in Podesta emails. Zero. Provide your evidence for this claim....the whole pizzagate theory rests on this.
Yes, Tony Podesta mentioned being in the torture chamber that's a fact. But you have no evidence that is not a simple metaphor which is commonly used. I heard someone say today at work was torture this week. She works in marketing for a supermarket chain.
V____Z ago
Provide evidence that there were no code words on those emails. I'm on pins and needles waiting to hear your reply.
Are_we_sure ago
No link was ever given for the code word list. In fact it didn't even come from a web page. Some anonymous guy just made up a list and screenshotted it. That's what all the claims are based on. An anonymous post with a made up list with no source at all.
If you search the web for evidence that ice cream = male prostitute you won't find anything before pizzagate because the list is a hoax. You will find no evidence that map = semen. It's all garbage.
Also this is a small group of people who already know each other, why would they borrow an existing code known to others. It's complete nonsense.
V____Z ago
You gave only 2 examples of garbage and concluded "it's all garbage".
No. Most of the code words like hot dogs, pizza and cheese, make NO SENSE in the emails and for that reason, made people look into what they might mean. They quickly found what the FBI also has, that those are words to refer to sex (and often trafficking) of children. "Chicken" often refers to little boys (see "chicken lover") and children (rather than chickens) are the common sacrifice for Mollock in their religion which goes back ages.
People use code words not to hide things from those they know, but from authorities, when those things are illegal. Drug dealers have been doing this for a long time too.
Are_we_sure ago
A. This is not true, they do make sense. Ever one of them can be understood as is. These email were read in a context of hyperpartisan hatred by a group determined to find dirt and then if there was no dirt to find to manufacture it. And they did.
B. The emails are not directed at you, it's somebody else's conversation. People you don't know and don't know how they normally speak.
Stop right there. This is false. go look this up. The FBI found nothing about these words. No need arguing further.....this is a false premise for the rest of your argument.
V____Z ago
Explain why Obama spent $65K on hot dogs and pizza flown in from Chicago? What do they mean "using the same channels" - that doesn't sound so innocent. https://i.redditmedia.com/wFlhtZzDTMLZQMyYsv_Cm8So33v6H4mheMQHmYb4qCU.png?s=18f1f144abcffecc285fbbd1aeb0020a
Are_we_sure ago
I have many times on this board.
Obama never did. That was gossip from an Obama hating guy in Austin, TX. Not an insider. Most of the details about that are completely wrong. Obama was having his favorite pizzamaker from Pi pizza in St Louis make pizza at the White House. This caused a minor controversy from pizzamakers in Chicago, that Obama who is from Chicago didn't choose a Chicago guy. This then morphed into a controversy on right wing media who were trying to portray Obama as an out of touch elitist, that he had the guy flown in a private plane. (There was controversy at the time over auto CEOs flying into Washington to ask for a bailout.) This spawned a controversy about Obama not being environmentally sounds, a different controversy about Obama using a government plane to fly the guy in and waste taxpayer dollars, etc. This was all over right wing media/social media for a while but the stories had it wrong. The guy flew from St Louis to DC commercial, they timed it for when he was going to be in DC anyone and he donated his time and his food. The White House actually paid $0 for this pizza party and the pizza guy got like a million bucks free publicity, he went on the morning talk shows. You know what they called this controversy back in 2009? Pizzagate. I kid you not. Check out the end of this article
https://www.stlmag.com/dining/Pi-at-The-White-House-on-Fox-and-Friends-on-Great-Day-St-Louis/
found my old comments https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2477265 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2573942/12936958
septimasexta ago
IT ALL STARTED WITH THE WIKILEAKS CLINTON / PODESTA EMAIL DUMPS
One of the Chans or Reddit noticed emails between Uma and Hillary regarding the Laura Silsby affair in Haiti. They were surprised that she was aware of Silsby's "ministry" before Haiti. Of course Silsby had been convicted of child trafficking in Haiti. The Clintons were instrumental in getting her out of jail. Researching this led to other connections and references in the emails, including Comet Pizza and owner James Alefantis. The inclusion of the FBI pedo symbols in the wikileaks dump led to more discoveries. The odd pizza references from Podesta and friends as well as a fundraiser held at Comet Pizza drew the investigator's attention. Early access to Alefantis' public Instagrams as well as friends' comments really opened the door into a non-mainstream culture. It was discovered that Alefantis was listed as 49th most powerful in DC by an established magazine. This seemed very odd, so Alefantis' connections were examined which led to David Brock and even Lynn Rothschild, and of course Hillary Clinton and John Podesta via the fundraising circuit. The Alefantis Instagram photos referred to a "kill room" and showed perhaps unregistered building modifications on Alefantis property which included what appeared to be a tunnel of some sort and many other creepy images including lots of children. The more researchers dug, the darker it got. To sum it up, it was a more ORGANIC discovery made by numbers of random researchers, who didn't necessarily know each other, nor were they formally organized. Different groups emphasized different areas of research at the beginning. Most initially knew nothing about child trafficking or pedo culture. Knowledge increased over time. And yes, Jimmy Comet does own a basement. It is in his Buck's Fishing and Camping restaurant a few doors down from Comet Ping Pong. Both restaurants have two stories - Buck's has a basement and the main floor restaurant. Comet has the main floor restaurant and a second story above. How it is utilized, no one knows for sure. Later, a researcher claimed to have hacked Comet's website and found cp on it. He allegedly reported his findings to the DC police and received a written receipt acknowledging this. A few days later, actor Maddison Welch shows up at Comet and allegedly shot the computer tower, although there were no direct witnesses. Many researchers believed the incident to be a FF. Early on, the MSM tried to discredit researchers as more of their findings leaked out to the masses. I do not think they coined the term Pizzagate. I think it just became know as that by researchers as the information regarding the pizza code words grew. Of course the MSM had to call it something, in order to discredit the research, so the name Pizzagate was used. Personally, I think the name has helped our cause because it generates curiosity and people would seek out info on it. It also helps to expose the very real use of food terms by pedo culture and disrupts their covert operations. Still not sure about the pizza connection? Just "duck duck go" this: miley cyrus lips pizza photos
Vindicator ago
That was @PleadingtheYiff who uncovered the Silsby thing. Will Craddick, who was a mod of the original r/pizzagate, then here on v/pizzagate, then started his own independent investigative journalism site, Disobedient Media. The reason it all went viral (beyond Reddit) was because Wikileaks retweeted his Silsby piece.
Are_we__sure ago
The Clinton Silsby theory that Craddick claimed is completely false as I have shown several times. Very few folks on here have the intellectual honesty to admit that.
@septimasexta
There's several thing false here. Clinton was not aware of Silsby at all before she was arrested as I shown over and over. Most recently here https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2630232
Craddick/Pleading the Yiff made the false claim that Hilary Clinton knew about Silsby from 2001. He made this false claim based on this document.
https://foia.state.gov/Search/results.aspx?searchText=C05766664&beginDate=&endDate=&publishedBeginDate=&publishedEndDate=&caseNumber=
This document was found on the website of the East Falls Baptist Church in Idaho after Silsby was arrested. It was obviously written after the Haitian Earthquake from 2010. Craddick claims it was an email from 2001. It was not an email. It was an attachment to this email. It's document called nIcrhaitianorphanrescuemission.pdf
https://foia.state.gov/search/results.aspx?searchText=C05766635&beginDate=&endDate=&publishedBeginDate=&publishedEndDate=&caseNumber=
From: Mills, Cheryl D MillsCD@state.gov Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:39 PM To: H Subject: Fw: 10 AmCits arrested with 33 children, headed to DR. Now under arrest in Port au Prince Attachments: nIcrhaitianorphanrescuemission.pdf
So we know exactly how that document got in Hillary's inbox because it's explained in that email.
We know the exact date that got in Hilary's inbox. We know that nobody at the State Department knew who this group was before their arrested and they didn't know who Silsby was before her arrest.
Craddick's claim is false. So there only case of child trafficking connected to Pizzagate IS NOT CONNECTED at all. None of the emails about Silsby existed before she was arrested. All that followed was not because of any personal connection to Silsby, but because the State Department gets involved when Americans are arrested overseas. Period.
These two other claims you make are also false
Silsby was not convicted of child trafficking. In fact, she was never charged with child trafficking. She was facing charges of kidnapping and criminal association. These charges were dropped by the Haitian courts. This is mostly likely because Silsby actually had permission from the parents to take the kids, the kidnapping charges probably wouldn't have held up in court.
http://www.bpnews.net/32802/silsby-to-face-trial-in-haiti-charges-dropped-against-9
The Clintons were not instrumental in getting her out of jail. She was convicted on a lesser charge and sentenced to time served. The State Department explicitly rejected appeals from Baptists leaders for the Clintons to get involved. http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/09/haiti.clinton.arrests/index.html
heygeorge ago
In the earlier days, there was a lot of talk about the basement and the systems of tunnels that run under DC. Also the Hillary fundraising event that took place at CPP raised a lot of (very immediate) concerns about CPP being a hub or at least a spoke in child-running.
V____Z ago
Indeed. There was a lot of talk about all that we were uncovering, but in the early days we never zeroed in on ANY single assertion, nor do we even today. In the early days we were a whirlwind of information and evidence, and questions. But no one, NO ONE, ever cooked up the theory that ended up defining us, that is, not before the NYT asserted otherwise.
So while we did mention a lot about the underground systems, and about Comet's central role, no one ever said Hillary ran the damn thing. And throwing in the detail about the basement only led us to run in circles clarifying about Alefantis having access to a basement through his other restaurant right next door. When all the time we spent defending ourselves, we should have used to show that the NYT lied outright. The result they wanted was exactly what they got. We can't show our face in public, and no serious person dares to mention pizzagate. All the while, the NYT retains credibility among the masses.
I personally hounded the author of this piece, because I had been reading literally everything about this at the time, and her article was so off base and looked nothing like what I was exposed to with regard to pizzagate. I asked her to please show me where she was getting her facts. She ignored me.
Yes, the MSM has a lot of power, but when they blatantly lie we must do our best to expose that fact.