The most effective disinformation tells a basically true overall narrative, but mixes in fake evidence and nonsense to poison it.
Ted Gunderson was a COINTELPRO disinformant. COINTELPRO is an FBI program aimed at disrupting dissidents. His goal was actually to discredit claims of elite pedophile rings (and claims about 9/11) by introducing fake evidence, "poisoning the well," giving talks to groups of conspiracy researches to get them to adopt bad evidence and false "tinfoil hat" versions of their theories (e.g. "no plane at the Pentagon"), in order to discredit the true general claims (e.g. 9/11 = inside job) with the general public. He promoted the "Pentagon missile" disinfo, and he promoted the McMartin Preschool case as an example of an elite pedophile ring. The McMartin case is a well-known case of false allegations. The mother who made the initial allegations was crazy. She based it on her son having disrupted bowel movements. The jury exonerated the accused because video showed the interviewers basically coercing the toddlers into saying they were abused, using leading questions that violated California guidelines at the time. One of the kids sent an apology to the LA times as an adult. That case was the real case of false memories that spawned the whole concept.
Gunderson has been a promoter of just about every bogus theory one can come up with: Area 51, reptilians, FEMA internment camps, a United Nations army taking over the United States, chemtrails, "pineapple bombs" at Oklahoma, no-planes on 9/11...
Basically all of the occultic talk imo is this. Same with the mods are shills talk anything that doesn't promote solidarity of community here detracts from our investigation. Also thanks for this realigned my head back to why I started my crusade on shitposts.
You really didn't have to sticky this post with a 'Possible False Flag' you know, because the majority of people don't believe that Ted Gunderson is a disinformation agent like you do. The Johnny Gosch story is very relevant here and Ted helped his mother Noreen in her search for the truth. If only for this,The Franklin Cover up is a very important story and it should not be flagged as false. For the sake of Pizzagate and 'real news'.
the majority of people don't believe that Ted Gunderson is a disinformation agent like you do.
The majority of people have not researched Ted Gunderson at all, and therefore have no strong opinion on who he is. The purpose of the flair is to give users a heads-up so they have at least been warned. What you need to understand is that the most effective disinformation tells a basically true narrative, but poisons it with fake evidence and crazy, unfounded, or exaggerated aspects. That corrupts the investigation and ends up discrediting it.
Ok, I can understand where you're coming from and I can respect that. However, many people previously posted subs related to Ted Gunderson and the Franklin Cover-up which have not been sticked as 'possible false flag'. How is this fair to me? I almost feel like I was singled out here.
Some examples of posts that were about Ted Gunderson and not sticky-ed as false flag by the mods:
I'm not intending to imply that YOU are a shill. I guess we need to change that flair to "possible disinformation." I'll get on that. (we only get to have 10 flair-options; we aren't able to make custom flairs for individual posts).
However, many people previously posted subs related to Ted Gunderson and the Franklin Cover-up which have not been sticked as 'possible false flag'.
No doubt some stuff falls through the cracks. I am human and only have as many hours in a day as you. I might discuss Gunderson with the other mods. It hasn't really been much of an issue though, as I haven't noticed very many Gunderson posts.
I've just given you the links to 7 of them and there are more. But in the meantime, I'm being singled-out (punished) in an unjust way, because by the time you guys come up with a decision to sticky all Ted Gunderson's subs or not, my post will have lost its steam.
It's not losing steam at all. It's on the frontpage, and the only downvote so far is mine. Unfortunately it appears that fighting disinformation is an uphill battle. Confirmation bias is so strong. That's why disinformation is such an effective weapon.
I agree with you completely on this. Disinformation is a very effective weapon indeed. It may very well be possible, that Ted Gunderson purposefully or not, presented false information in the past. There might be a motive behind this, who knows. However, there are so many things that he says and so many facts that he presents that are true, that he shouldn't automatically be dismissed as solely a disinformation agent. That's just my opinion.
However, there are so many things that he says and so many facts that he presents that are true, that he shouldn't automatically be dismissed as solely a disinformation agent.
I can respect your position, although I disagree with it. I think disinformation has an extremely damaging effect. Gunderson is like tasty candy that's actually poisonous. It seems so sparkly and tasty, like "OMG an FBI agent has been trying to expose this for years!," but ultimately it's fatal to efforts to spread the truth. Even if you think chemtrails are real, most people don't, and will automatically assume Gunderson is a nut.
Even though I have been red-pilled for some time now, I can understand where you're coming from and respect your attempt to protect the PG story from possible future backlashing from the 'majority' of people who haven't. This is a very tricky situation. We'll just leave it at that :)
So you also say there was a plane hitting the pentagon???
Would love to see some prove of that.
Otherwise you are proving yourself to be a disinformation agent.
There's a multilane highway that goes right by the Pentagon. Thousands of people saw the plane. That's why that particular bit of disinformation is so effective. Anyone who knows anything about DC will automatically see that you're woefully misinformed (and possible a lunatic) if you promote that claim. The real evidence on 9/11 has to do with the motive, the financing, and the foreknowledge (e.g. multiple FBI investigators knew the attack was coming, and had their investigations blocked), and possibly WTC 7 (not sure about that one, personally).
So you, stating people saw it flying over is proof???
Why was there basically no plane debris?
Why not a link to a video with a plane flying in??
There where plenty security cams!
Becouse there was no plane!!!
Why not a link to a video with a plane flying in??
What motive would the Pentagon have to release that footage? I can think of reasons NOT to release it, such as the fact that it fuels their disinformation campaign. If 9/11 truth efforts ever really become a problem for them, they can release the footage and say "See? It's all a hoax!"
I actually had a friend who worked at the Pentagon during 911 and he was there to see when it was attacked. In fact he actually rescued some General out of the rubble by himself. According to him, there was rubble but apparently that plane just slightly scraped the sides and at a wierd angle according to him.
If you call Chemtrails and the Illuminati 'bogus stories', you probably won't like Ted Gunderson's report and that's fine. But to call him a disinformation agent, imho, is a stretch. So far, everything that's included in his report has been verified, and in part, already published. I didn't find anything new, except maybe for info on Michael Aquino, which is very interesting.
Indeed. I was on board with the comment until they said chemtrails was "discredited". The authority won't even acknowledge them enough to even try discrediting them. To me, that's a big red flag. Also, I think it's the people who make such a big deal of the "no plane theory" that are spreading the disinfo. Who cares how 9/11 happened? We just know that it did. None of those things listed have been discredited as far as I know. Surprised that "flat earth" wasn't mentioned to poison the well.
The authority won't even acknowledge them enough to even try discrediting them.
What does this even mean?
Who cares how 9/11 happened? We just know that it did.
Most people don't believe it was an inside job, and pushing crazy, baseless theories as evidence keeps it that way. Disinformation is the number one weapon they use to keep the truth suppressed.
I've never seen any debunking of chemtrails that actually shows a sky full of them and what they actually look like. If you google chemtrail images what comes up are a whole bunch of obvious photo-shopped examples, which is odd, considering they're common enough. So yeah, avoiding the whole question doesn't exactly answer it in any satisfactory way.
It's also odd that the whole "no-planes" nonsense seemed to put to rest the conspiracy theories. Why? No planes is just as believable as the official explanation. And as to who does or does not believe in a conspiracy regarding 9-11, it depends on who you ask. Trump's win shows a massive move away from mainstream media narratives.
Chemtrails are definitely a bogus claim, designed to make "conspiracy theorists" look crazy. As for "Illuminati," I'm not sure. I have removed that bit from my original comment.
Yeah, shills like to accuse anyone who exposes them of being shills. Convenient diversion tactic. Take a look at who wrote the current pizzagate summary sticky. I spend days of my time working on it, and I continue to work on it as time allow. Also look through my comment history. It's irresponsible to accuse someone of being a shill without actual evidence.
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Millennial_Falcon ago
The most effective disinformation tells a basically true overall narrative, but mixes in fake evidence and nonsense to poison it.
Ted Gunderson was a COINTELPRO disinformant. COINTELPRO is an FBI program aimed at disrupting dissidents. His goal was actually to discredit claims of elite pedophile rings (and claims about 9/11) by introducing fake evidence, "poisoning the well," giving talks to groups of conspiracy researches to get them to adopt bad evidence and false "tinfoil hat" versions of their theories (e.g. "no plane at the Pentagon"), in order to discredit the true general claims (e.g. 9/11 = inside job) with the general public. He promoted the "Pentagon missile" disinfo, and he promoted the McMartin Preschool case as an example of an elite pedophile ring. The McMartin case is a well-known case of false allegations. The mother who made the initial allegations was crazy. She based it on her son having disrupted bowel movements. The jury exonerated the accused because video showed the interviewers basically coercing the toddlers into saying they were abused, using leading questions that violated California guidelines at the time. One of the kids sent an apology to the LA times as an adult. That case was the real case of false memories that spawned the whole concept.
Gunderson has been a promoter of just about every bogus theory one can come up with: Area 51, reptilians, FEMA internment camps, a United Nations army taking over the United States, chemtrails, "pineapple bombs" at Oklahoma, no-planes on 9/11...
Flairing as possible disinformation.
gopluckyourself ago
Basically all of the occultic talk imo is this. Same with the mods are shills talk anything that doesn't promote solidarity of community here detracts from our investigation. Also thanks for this realigned my head back to why I started my crusade on shitposts.
YingYangMom ago
You really didn't have to sticky this post with a 'Possible False Flag' you know, because the majority of people don't believe that Ted Gunderson is a disinformation agent like you do. The Johnny Gosch story is very relevant here and Ted helped his mother Noreen in her search for the truth. If only for this,The Franklin Cover up is a very important story and it should not be flagged as false. For the sake of Pizzagate and 'real news'.
Millennial_Falcon ago
The majority of people have not researched Ted Gunderson at all, and therefore have no strong opinion on who he is. The purpose of the flair is to give users a heads-up so they have at least been warned. What you need to understand is that the most effective disinformation tells a basically true narrative, but poisons it with fake evidence and crazy, unfounded, or exaggerated aspects. That corrupts the investigation and ends up discrediting it.
YingYangMom ago
Ok, I can understand where you're coming from and I can respect that. However, many people previously posted subs related to Ted Gunderson and the Franklin Cover-up which have not been sticked as 'possible false flag'. How is this fair to me? I almost feel like I was singled out here. Some examples of posts that were about Ted Gunderson and not sticky-ed as false flag by the mods:
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1466494 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1475760 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1469957 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1454727 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1443867 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1452714 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1444169
Millennial_Falcon ago
I'm not intending to imply that YOU are a shill. I guess we need to change that flair to "possible disinformation." I'll get on that. (we only get to have 10 flair-options; we aren't able to make custom flairs for individual posts).
No doubt some stuff falls through the cracks. I am human and only have as many hours in a day as you. I might discuss Gunderson with the other mods. It hasn't really been much of an issue though, as I haven't noticed very many Gunderson posts.
YingYangMom ago
I've just given you the links to 7 of them and there are more. But in the meantime, I'm being singled-out (punished) in an unjust way, because by the time you guys come up with a decision to sticky all Ted Gunderson's subs or not, my post will have lost its steam.
Millennial_Falcon ago
It's not losing steam at all. It's on the frontpage, and the only downvote so far is mine. Unfortunately it appears that fighting disinformation is an uphill battle. Confirmation bias is so strong. That's why disinformation is such an effective weapon.
YingYangMom ago
I agree with you completely on this. Disinformation is a very effective weapon indeed. It may very well be possible, that Ted Gunderson purposefully or not, presented false information in the past. There might be a motive behind this, who knows. However, there are so many things that he says and so many facts that he presents that are true, that he shouldn't automatically be dismissed as solely a disinformation agent. That's just my opinion.
Millennial_Falcon ago
I can respect your position, although I disagree with it. I think disinformation has an extremely damaging effect. Gunderson is like tasty candy that's actually poisonous. It seems so sparkly and tasty, like "OMG an FBI agent has been trying to expose this for years!," but ultimately it's fatal to efforts to spread the truth. Even if you think chemtrails are real, most people don't, and will automatically assume Gunderson is a nut.
YingYangMom ago
Even though I have been red-pilled for some time now, I can understand where you're coming from and respect your attempt to protect the PG story from possible future backlashing from the 'majority' of people who haven't. This is a very tricky situation. We'll just leave it at that :)
Verite1 ago
I have just learned a lot about disinformation as a weapon from this back and forth. Thanks for at least, for that.
YingYangMom ago
Ha! Welcome ;)
Letsdoit ago
So you also say there was a plane hitting the pentagon??? Would love to see some prove of that. Otherwise you are proving yourself to be a disinformation agent.
Millennial_Falcon ago
There's a multilane highway that goes right by the Pentagon. Thousands of people saw the plane. That's why that particular bit of disinformation is so effective. Anyone who knows anything about DC will automatically see that you're woefully misinformed (and possible a lunatic) if you promote that claim. The real evidence on 9/11 has to do with the motive, the financing, and the foreknowledge (e.g. multiple FBI investigators knew the attack was coming, and had their investigations blocked), and possibly WTC 7 (not sure about that one, personally).
Letsdoit ago
So you, stating people saw it flying over is proof??? Why was there basically no plane debris? Why not a link to a video with a plane flying in?? There where plenty security cams! Becouse there was no plane!!!
Millennial_Falcon ago
False.
What motive would the Pentagon have to release that footage? I can think of reasons NOT to release it, such as the fact that it fuels their disinformation campaign. If 9/11 truth efforts ever really become a problem for them, they can release the footage and say "See? It's all a hoax!"
shortymcbossypants ago
I actually had a friend who worked at the Pentagon during 911 and he was there to see when it was attacked. In fact he actually rescued some General out of the rubble by himself. According to him, there was rubble but apparently that plane just slightly scraped the sides and at a wierd angle according to him.
idontlikesalmon ago
I've heard of people seeing the plane as well. My theory is that they used a hologram, otherwise those poles wouldn't be standing.
YingYangMom ago
If you call Chemtrails and the Illuminati 'bogus stories', you probably won't like Ted Gunderson's report and that's fine. But to call him a disinformation agent, imho, is a stretch. So far, everything that's included in his report has been verified, and in part, already published. I didn't find anything new, except maybe for info on Michael Aquino, which is very interesting.
SlackeryTurnBull ago
Indeed. I was on board with the comment until they said chemtrails was "discredited". The authority won't even acknowledge them enough to even try discrediting them. To me, that's a big red flag. Also, I think it's the people who make such a big deal of the "no plane theory" that are spreading the disinfo. Who cares how 9/11 happened? We just know that it did. None of those things listed have been discredited as far as I know. Surprised that "flat earth" wasn't mentioned to poison the well.
Millennial_Falcon ago
What does this even mean?
Most people don't believe it was an inside job, and pushing crazy, baseless theories as evidence keeps it that way. Disinformation is the number one weapon they use to keep the truth suppressed.
SlackeryTurnBull ago
I've never seen any debunking of chemtrails that actually shows a sky full of them and what they actually look like. If you google chemtrail images what comes up are a whole bunch of obvious photo-shopped examples, which is odd, considering they're common enough. So yeah, avoiding the whole question doesn't exactly answer it in any satisfactory way.
It's also odd that the whole "no-planes" nonsense seemed to put to rest the conspiracy theories. Why? No planes is just as believable as the official explanation. And as to who does or does not believe in a conspiracy regarding 9-11, it depends on who you ask. Trump's win shows a massive move away from mainstream media narratives.
Millennial_Falcon ago
Chemtrails are definitely a bogus claim, designed to make "conspiracy theorists" look crazy. As for "Illuminati," I'm not sure. I have removed that bit from my original comment.
idontlikesalmon ago
Gunderson talked about mind controlled trolls discrediting him on the internet. This guy might be one of them :-)
Millennial_Falcon ago
Yeah, shills like to accuse anyone who exposes them of being shills. Convenient diversion tactic. Take a look at who wrote the current pizzagate summary sticky. I spend days of my time working on it, and I continue to work on it as time allow. Also look through my comment history. It's irresponsible to accuse someone of being a shill without actual evidence.