In 4chan-ish speak (or whatever)
Be me
Working. Look at clock, damn gotta run
Get up, about to leave, forgot I have to run vote manipulation bans
It's fine, they are ready to run, won't take long
Get first batch setup, double check it, looks good, execute the code
Get second batch setup, double check it, wait, a parameter is off
Think to myself, hmmmm, what was that parameter set to in the first batch?
Go look at the first batch again, parameter is wrong, interesting.
I wonder what that did.
Go look, yeah, banned a bunch of people I shouldn't have.
I'm going to be so late now.
No code to unban people, have to write it real quick.
15 minutes later, ready to go, execute code, great, everyone was unbanned. Feel like superman.
Finish rest of bans
Leave 45 minutes after I should have
Sometime later, check Voat on phone, make sure it's not down (you know, we have a thing with that).
Have 20 triilion unread messages. Oh no. What now.
Voat is going full rage goat about bans.
Try to answer as many messages as possible. It's a warzone. Usually is after every round though, so expected
Check Voat again later, saw ping in a random submission
It said a long time goat was banned. That's weird.
Started thinking how did that goat get banned?
Why would they be farming? They can't be downvoting can they?
Recall that Dan guy got banned on Reddit for up farming. Definitely possible.
Maybe power users are into that kind of thing?
Think to myself, Voat is weird.
Sometime later, still curious, log on computer, bring up ban data
Wait a second, that goat was in batch 1
I'll fix that. Fixed.
Look over it once again, find two more
Fix them.
Check a few users who've messaged. They still got served the ban hammer. Lol a little
Think we are good now.
Still thinking about what the goats said in the warzone thread
One user said we should have an appeal process
Process we use now is old as hell
Coded to kill farms with no mercy
Written for survival during the sanegoat days
That was years ago. Reminisce what is was like for a minute. Damn I'm getting old.
Yeah, maybe we should update this
So, that was how the bans went down from my side. Thought it was entertaining enough to break the ice for what follows:
I can't allow manipulation, in any way. If the votes aren't true, I can't put my name on it. Manipulation of votes was why I left Reddit in the first place. I take it seriously. I also need to define what we look for without giving away our playbook (I have to think about this a bit).
I'll double check vote manipulation bans, that is totally reasonable. I hate banning people for manipulation, so if a ban wasn't right, I'll fix it.
Conclusion:
We are going to have to add an appeal process for vote manipulation.
You guys have better ideas anyways, so how should we do this? What should the process be?
Let's just design it from scratch. And while we are at it… should subverse bans be appealable? Do we need to write new code for this?
Suppose we can just use PMs though.
Let's make it better.
Someone told me Voat loves stickies.
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MrPim ago
And personally my problem is that I was accused of vote manipulation when in my opinion that just is not true. I do not use alts, I do not engage in organized brigades, I do not Voat from a users comment page. My voating is done as a single user in the forums and I don't use alt accts to increase my numbers. If I have a hard on for a particular user and I DV the shit out of them that isn't vote manipulation. If I DV every single thing Aged posts that isn't manipulation, I just hate pedos. I also UV almost everything from @Empress and a lot from TWs, am I manipulating that? If so, what are the thresholds for this activity?
The accusation of Voat manipulation is taken seriously here and people automatically jump to AltFarmer and I am not that. My activity logs are welcome to be published.
Womb_Raider ago
Maybe don't upvote based on user, but based on merit of submission? There's an idear.
NotHereForPizza ago
rekt
Womb_Raider ago
Pretty hard to believe Pim got 70 organic upvotes from where I stand. And I say something more sensible and get 14? Weird place, this website
NotHereForPizza ago
That number increases exponentially. It's just the bandwagon theory playing out.
Womb_Raider ago
Perhaps it's that simple. I don't know.
NotHereForPizza ago
each iteration in the chain has a lower probability
Gorillion ago
You start recognizing voaters and their submissions just by natural degrees.
So you notice when they're being dishonest or hypocritical.
A lot of people who end up on Voat have fairly sensitive pattern recognition software running in their heads and due to past experiences don't wait for slippery slope suspicions to bare themselves out when they notice the early signs of malignant forces attempting to pervert reasonably forthright discourse.
Attribution of "Merit" still requires context, and some users have a larger sense of context given their time here. So an "innocent" post to you will send up red flags to someone who knows User X's usual shtick. That's actually a fully democratic mechanism at work there - you wouldn't vote for politician who suddenly speaks your language after seeing him say the exact opposite to someone else in another environment. Because you understand he's trying to manipulate you and is dishonest, inconsistent and untrustworthy.
People can change, sure. Give them space and opportunity to do that if you see change happening. I don't think many people have a "DV everything this guy posts" list that they use every day. They'll get hot for a while then cool off. Then get hot again if the target user keeps pissing them off. Natural cycles. Again, think of it like watching politicians in action. It forces that politician to either stick to his guns and gather supporters over time, or change his message or rhetoric enough (make better and less dishonest arguments) to not get DV'd so much. Or just move to a different electoral district (ie: Fuck off to Reddit or a Tranny Discord).
Womb_Raider ago
So... if the merit of their statements improve, they'll get your approval? In other words, we should base posts and philosophies based on their merit, as I've said? I'm pleased you agree with me.
7e62ce85 ago
I think you missed his point: Aged posts a bunch of loli and pedo stuff. It would make sense for someone to downvote him a lot and similarly Empress posts a lot of good stuff which someone might be consistently upvoting.
Womb_Raider ago
I understood his point. Are you missing mine?
virge ago
Hammer meet nail.
sdfgsdf232 ago
womb, kevdude has access to putts account. this is all him. Think man.... the last time putt made 3 stickies at 8am CST, he is euro
-cheese IF
hope all is well with you, but voat is now dead
Womb_Raider ago
Voat died a long time ago. I don't know why I continue to stare at the corpse. Your time zone point is interesting, but it's around 2-5pm across Europe right now, so it's not necessarily a valid point. I applaud your thinking though.
And as far as you're concerned: you do the same things they do. you abuse VPN/sockpuppet accounts and spam your heart out. You devise personalities that are competent and utterly retarded a la beatlejuice. Don't think you have my respect. You ought to be better.
I am doing well, thank you. Spend less time on the internet and you will do well too.
sdfgsdf232 ago
its kevdude man, I know this in my heart. putt did not write those.
no womb, I only did it to offset downvoat brigades on myself and others. I may have boosted a song like three time in drunken fun. thats the extent. and may have boosted account to 100 cause after 4+ years here, the restrictions are pointless to me.
Did you know magically gained dial over a thousand ccp while banned.... i am
Also, I alway only resetted there brigades, its is easy for me to tell between organic and non, you are listening to lies
Womb_Raider ago
I don't feel that what you do is okay. Fighting fire with fire is not going to put out a flame. Only the administrator can truly do anything, and if they choose to do nothing, the site is of no value. At the end of the day that's how it is.
itsALWAYStheBANKERS ago
To be fair, some fires can be put out with fires and explosions.
jkasdfhk7732 ago
they were not, and I reacted. Dial would not have existed.... And the amount of people I tried to and verses from downvoated brigades was justified.
If "organic" I left it alone.
know I only reset THAT is the difference... I just took off their downvoats
do you think I enjoyed doing it, no.
you could see the habits, -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 then they would run out of downvoats.... dial magically gains over a thousand ccp over the past few days... amazing. I think either putt bann retro votes, or they are removinging them in a hurry.
But they are retarded because I guarantee there is a log. I would tell putt continually .... help me out. He laughed and mocked me when he banned dial @puttitout
then goes on to say im a "asset"
im starting to rant
im not wrong womb, lets put our past aside. I'd still like to keep in touch with ya. you're a good guy.
-dial
(hit 10 comments) aint that funny who they restrict users that have been actively here for 4+ years
MrPim ago
Maybe I'll decide how I Voat and I'll likely do that on a case by case basis. Your idea sucks.
speedisavirus ago
Hello low IQ nigger that isn't active.
sdfgsdf232 ago
This @kevdude posing at puttitout, he has access to his account. Putt 100% did not write these three stickies
Agrianian_Javelineer ago
You people are such fucking spergs, make me want to go back to reddit
Womb_Raider ago
Voting based on merit rather than mindless bias and favoritism is a bad idea? Oh.
MrPim ago
If you go to a restaurant 3 times and twice the food made you sick would you continue returning? A track record is a thing for a reason. I also stipulated that I vote on case by case basis. But ignoring that is cool.
Womb_Raider ago
You specifically said you almost upvote every single thing they post. I would not be surprised if you, at a time, downvoted everything I had to say regardless of validity. Many people you associate with behave this way. If, say, you and your friends upvote 80% of a specific user's posts, would that not promote their content to a degree that normal voting habits by individuals could not counter it?
Could you not control discourse by pushing yours and your friends views to the limelight?
Do you not even see the threat that sort of activity could pose in the hands of the Obamas, the Clintons, or other politically-motivated people? If you want to have standards for anyone, you have to have standards for yourself.
I am not wholly convinced that you do.
BushChuck ago
Pim is guilty as charged. Every time I encounter him, my posts for that day get a -5, as he scrolls through them and gives his bots orders.
Maybe he thinks he's too slick to get caught or some shit. I hope next time the ban sticks.
Womb_Raider ago
31 day account acting like he has long-term knowledge of the userbase... nothing about you smells funny. Nothing at all.
Hand_of_Node ago
My first account is parked on preview, and will be 4 on June 12. It's probably common for new accounts to be first accounts, but that's not always the case.
Reddit-is-kill ago
Tl;Dr: it's ok to have preconceived opinions on certain goats
You're being too much of an idealist here, applying something specific in a vastly general way.
Don't get me wrong, I support your ideas here. I just don't think they're applicable in this setting.
Example: every time I see a great post about traditional lifestyle I upvote it. 90% of those posts are made by empress.
I wouldn't be surprised if she had 10% of all my upvotes, frankly.
Here's the problem: It has gotten to the point where I have so much respect for her that I would be more inclined to appreciate a post with her name on it. I trust her. She has been a part of the community forever.
So am I vote manipulating or has she earned each of those votes?
I think it's the latter.
You make sweeping statements about how this kind of power could be abused by the Obamas. We aren't operating in the same league here. My respect for many of my fellow goats is relatively personal and unique derived from an arguement that was well said like @mrpim, posts that made me chuckle like @syriansfuckcorpses, appreciation for the community like with @empress and @puttitout, or because they're raging faggot kike shitposters like @crensch (he's my favorite).
They are all people I've actually had conversations with. However insignificant and impersonal the relationships may be on a web forum, this is still more similar to friend groups than to politics.
It's not manipulation to know other goats and have pre-existing opinions about them.
MrPim ago
Almost.
I do not have friends here. Not in the way you are implying. I don't discuss what I vote on w anyone. If I am coincidentally UVing TW content which also happens to be popular that isn't comparison to promote that sub. My DV 99% of Aged Gaming submissions bevause I hate pedos and others do the same I cannot be held liable for holding a similar opinion.
The discussion here really isn't the why of my voting habits, but if they break any of our rules. As far as I can see I did not. And yet I was nearly banned for not breaking our rules.
Womb_Raider ago
I think that if Putt is who he says he is, and you think of this from his perspective... if a group is obviously very chummy, and uses VPNs, and voting habits seem... awry, it must be immensely difficult for him not to presume that people are upvoting eachother systematically to have their way with his website. Imagine that perspective and imagine how demoralizing it must be.
Now imagine he does something about it, and those same people, using VPNs, attack him viciously for having done so. Imagine how demoralizing that must be.
I bet he feels that he has almost no options at all.
If it weren't for his commentary about srayzie and kevdude being builders, I would be proud of his recent actions... but now he's sounding like Maduro congratulating his generals on their psychological warfare.
Do I really sound so off-base to you?
Fateswebb ago
Putit said they don't look at IP ADDRESSES when they run bans for vote manipulation. So VPN isn't even a factor.
Womb_Raider ago
I think they should be reviewed also, but due to VPN, they're more or less useless so it's probably best that he does not. He needs to look at which accounts interact with each other, how they interact, what philosophy they promote... it's a very intensive job that no dull man could perform. My points remain.
Fateswebb ago
Well yeah, I mean if there are 5 accounts all at the same IP all vote brigading then that seems obvious.
MrPim ago
You do not sound of base. I am able to view things from Putts perspective(partially anyway). I understand that Putt would like Voat to grow and if he could monetize it. He's put in a lot of work and if I'm not mistaken his own money. It's completely natural for him to want to reap some rewards. I can understand that if he thought there were a group manipulating things he'd have concerns. There are a couple things though;
First. This is really the first of these threads I've taken part in. I haven't gone on and on complaining.
Second. If he thought there was a group doing this he'd need to look pretty carefully at records. And this sounds like he tried to use an automated approach which didn't work.
Lastly. Putts perspective and goals are different than mine. Putt wants Voat to grow. While I sympathize, my goal is to keep Voat as small and non shity for as long as possible. The growth Putt naturally desires will be the ruination of Voat. It is inevitable. Voat is what it is because of the slow controlled growth. So you see in even the most basic of things here, Putt and my goals are diametrically opposed. While I can see things from his side I often disagree.
Artofchoke ago
It's up to him to decide, for good or bad.
Womb_Raider ago
I used to be friends with freshmeat. Never did I upvote every post he made. I used to be friends with grifter. Never did I upvote every post he made. I used to even be sympathetic to sanegoat, despite my devil's advocate rhetoric towards him... and never did I reflexively upvote everything he had to say.
There is no excuse for doing so and, if these people are using VPN, it's hard to justify such activity... I don't know, it's probably a catch-22 but I can't see his perspective even if I try.
This place just feels like such an inorganic environment these days.
Artofchoke ago
It has changed so much. It's hard. :/
I miss when we all knew each other, and it was a tight knit community.
wokeasfook ago
The upside is our ideas are more mainstream now
Womb_Raider ago
I do too. Now we have the owner of the website essentially promoting the opposite... maybe he means well, but I don't know. He's calling the destroyers builders. Either he's comped, demoralized, or ... I'm not sure what else.
I weep for the internet at large. The time is coming when we will have to gather like minds and find a place IRL to convene and live, the north vs south dichotomy will come to the United States again and, probably, sooner than we expect.
I think that once Trump's second term ends, we will see egregious behavior from our government. You may be the only SDBH person who has my respect. I advise you to research 80% lower firearms and acquire some. Get more than you need so that you may arm those that did not foresee trouble.
Artofchoke ago
We need to pick a state, pick a town, and create an enclave. We're running low on time, but trying to organize goats is like trying to herd cats. :/
Womb_Raider ago
We ought to all move to Florida. We have good gun laws. Lots of military in the area, they're all patriots. Florida and Texas are two of the only states worth living in. Possibly Alabama.
That's why all this "Florida man" propaganda exists... that's why all the queers are trying to destroy Texas. Nothing is organic anymore. Nothing. I'm minding my own business and building up resources expecting the very worst.
waterniggas ago
florida is the jewish capital of the USA outside of new york
Womb_Raider ago
Lived here a long time. We have no Jewish community. Maybe in Broward, but I'm not in that cesspool.
Hand_of_Node ago
Aren't those the two states with the worst weather of any state, and extremely high minority populations? I lived in horrific weather states for my first two decades before moving to coastal California, so I might be a little biased. Texas at least had the "guns and patriots" thing going for it, until the liberals, homosexuals, and beaners took it over with no resistance.
Womb_Raider ago
Florida has the 'guns and patriots' thing going for it. For a Californian to complain about minorities and lack of patriotism is honestly hilarious. You're bending over to all sorts of draconian laws regarding firearm enthusiasm. Good luck getting a magazine worth a damn.
Older white folks retire in FL for a reason. It's not just because it's warm.
Hand_of_Node ago
I ended up in a pretty White and expensive part of California, although niggers are nearing 2% these days. Have been seeing at least one or more every time I'm downtown... Guns aren't a thing since that lack of a gardening license blew up into such a big deal back in the '90s... Had to throw everything down a hillside in the mountains, including a nice pre-1986 AR-15 with drop-in parts. Unlikely to ever have one again.
Patriotism was never expected here, unlike Texas. It's been fruits and nuts for decades. I would expect retirement in Florida to happen because of its proximity to the overcrowded east coast, and perhaps a general lack of standards? Maybe an enthusiasm for hurricanes too? OJ moved there because of the asset protection laws, which isn't actually a small thing.
I've heard it gets far beyond just "warm". HOT and HUMID 😥 is what I've heard. For Texas, it's described as more "oven-like". Yeah, no thanks to anything over 75. Average summer night here is 52.
GreenSlug ago
But Florida sucks... its my least favorite place ive ever been. So hot. So humid. So many bugs.
toobaditworks ago
And gators.
GreenSlug ago
I like the gators, good eats
toobaditworks ago
Haven't tried that yet.
GreenSlug ago
Maybe my second favorite food, behind squid. Or third if im counting squid and octopus separately
toobaditworks ago
Umm ... I won't be eating squid.
Here's Kentucky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmwLE7vnb0
GreenSlug ago
Squid is damned delicious though
Womb_Raider ago
If mild inconveniences break a man, were they a man to begin with?
GreenSlug ago
How bout this, you and yours create enclaves in the hot humid hellholes of florida and texas, and me and mine will form an enclave somewhere thats at least sorta nicer sometimes, like Iowa, and we can build a direct highway between them and cooperate? This way those of us who would rather not swim through the mosquito infested water air, can live somewhere with better seasons. And you weirdos who like breathing peasoup air can live down there.
GreenSlug ago
Whos broken? Why choose to live in a shithole instead of somewhere nicer? Florida sucks.
toobaditworks ago
How about Virginia or Kentucky?
GreenSlug ago
Never been so I'm not sure