In 4chan-ish speak (or whatever)
Be me
Working. Look at clock, damn gotta run
Get up, about to leave, forgot I have to run vote manipulation bans
It's fine, they are ready to run, won't take long
Get first batch setup, double check it, looks good, execute the code
Get second batch setup, double check it, wait, a parameter is off
Think to myself, hmmmm, what was that parameter set to in the first batch?
Go look at the first batch again, parameter is wrong, interesting.
I wonder what that did.
Go look, yeah, banned a bunch of people I shouldn't have.
I'm going to be so late now.
No code to unban people, have to write it real quick.
15 minutes later, ready to go, execute code, great, everyone was unbanned. Feel like superman.
Finish rest of bans
Leave 45 minutes after I should have
Sometime later, check Voat on phone, make sure it's not down (you know, we have a thing with that).
Have 20 triilion unread messages. Oh no. What now.
Voat is going full rage goat about bans.
Try to answer as many messages as possible. It's a warzone. Usually is after every round though, so expected
Check Voat again later, saw ping in a random submission
It said a long time goat was banned. That's weird.
Started thinking how did that goat get banned?
Why would they be farming? They can't be downvoting can they?
Recall that Dan guy got banned on Reddit for up farming. Definitely possible.
Maybe power users are into that kind of thing?
Think to myself, Voat is weird.
Sometime later, still curious, log on computer, bring up ban data
Wait a second, that goat was in batch 1
I'll fix that. Fixed.
Look over it once again, find two more
Fix them.
Check a few users who've messaged. They still got served the ban hammer. Lol a little
Think we are good now.
Still thinking about what the goats said in the warzone thread
One user said we should have an appeal process
Process we use now is old as hell
Coded to kill farms with no mercy
Written for survival during the sanegoat days
That was years ago. Reminisce what is was like for a minute. Damn I'm getting old.
Yeah, maybe we should update this
So, that was how the bans went down from my side. Thought it was entertaining enough to break the ice for what follows:
I can't allow manipulation, in any way. If the votes aren't true, I can't put my name on it. Manipulation of votes was why I left Reddit in the first place. I take it seriously. I also need to define what we look for without giving away our playbook (I have to think about this a bit).
I'll double check vote manipulation bans, that is totally reasonable. I hate banning people for manipulation, so if a ban wasn't right, I'll fix it.
Conclusion:
We are going to have to add an appeal process for vote manipulation.
You guys have better ideas anyways, so how should we do this? What should the process be?
Let's just design it from scratch. And while we are at it… should subverse bans be appealable? Do we need to write new code for this?
Suppose we can just use PMs though.
Let's make it better.
Someone told me Voat loves stickies.
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MrPim ago
And personally my problem is that I was accused of vote manipulation when in my opinion that just is not true. I do not use alts, I do not engage in organized brigades, I do not Voat from a users comment page. My voating is done as a single user in the forums and I don't use alt accts to increase my numbers. If I have a hard on for a particular user and I DV the shit out of them that isn't vote manipulation. If I DV every single thing Aged posts that isn't manipulation, I just hate pedos. I also UV almost everything from @Empress and a lot from TWs, am I manipulating that? If so, what are the thresholds for this activity?
The accusation of Voat manipulation is taken seriously here and people automatically jump to AltFarmer and I am not that. My activity logs are welcome to be published.
Womb_Raider ago
Maybe don't upvote based on user, but based on merit of submission? There's an idear.
MrPim ago
Maybe I'll decide how I Voat and I'll likely do that on a case by case basis. Your idea sucks.
Womb_Raider ago
Voting based on merit rather than mindless bias and favoritism is a bad idea? Oh.
MrPim ago
If you go to a restaurant 3 times and twice the food made you sick would you continue returning? A track record is a thing for a reason. I also stipulated that I vote on case by case basis. But ignoring that is cool.
Womb_Raider ago
You specifically said you almost upvote every single thing they post. I would not be surprised if you, at a time, downvoted everything I had to say regardless of validity. Many people you associate with behave this way. If, say, you and your friends upvote 80% of a specific user's posts, would that not promote their content to a degree that normal voting habits by individuals could not counter it?
Could you not control discourse by pushing yours and your friends views to the limelight?
Do you not even see the threat that sort of activity could pose in the hands of the Obamas, the Clintons, or other politically-motivated people? If you want to have standards for anyone, you have to have standards for yourself.
I am not wholly convinced that you do.
BushChuck ago
Pim is guilty as charged. Every time I encounter him, my posts for that day get a -5, as he scrolls through them and gives his bots orders.
Maybe he thinks he's too slick to get caught or some shit. I hope next time the ban sticks.
Womb_Raider ago
31 day account acting like he has long-term knowledge of the userbase... nothing about you smells funny. Nothing at all.
Hand_of_Node ago
My first account is parked on preview, and will be 4 on June 12. It's probably common for new accounts to be first accounts, but that's not always the case.
Reddit-is-kill ago
Tl;Dr: it's ok to have preconceived opinions on certain goats
You're being too much of an idealist here, applying something specific in a vastly general way.
Don't get me wrong, I support your ideas here. I just don't think they're applicable in this setting.
Example: every time I see a great post about traditional lifestyle I upvote it. 90% of those posts are made by empress.
I wouldn't be surprised if she had 10% of all my upvotes, frankly.
Here's the problem: It has gotten to the point where I have so much respect for her that I would be more inclined to appreciate a post with her name on it. I trust her. She has been a part of the community forever.
So am I vote manipulating or has she earned each of those votes?
I think it's the latter.
You make sweeping statements about how this kind of power could be abused by the Obamas. We aren't operating in the same league here. My respect for many of my fellow goats is relatively personal and unique derived from an arguement that was well said like @mrpim, posts that made me chuckle like @syriansfuckcorpses, appreciation for the community like with @empress and @puttitout, or because they're raging faggot kike shitposters like @crensch (he's my favorite).
They are all people I've actually had conversations with. However insignificant and impersonal the relationships may be on a web forum, this is still more similar to friend groups than to politics.
It's not manipulation to know other goats and have pre-existing opinions about them.
MrPim ago
Almost.
I do not have friends here. Not in the way you are implying. I don't discuss what I vote on w anyone. If I am coincidentally UVing TW content which also happens to be popular that isn't comparison to promote that sub. My DV 99% of Aged Gaming submissions bevause I hate pedos and others do the same I cannot be held liable for holding a similar opinion.
The discussion here really isn't the why of my voting habits, but if they break any of our rules. As far as I can see I did not. And yet I was nearly banned for not breaking our rules.
Womb_Raider ago
I think that if Putt is who he says he is, and you think of this from his perspective... if a group is obviously very chummy, and uses VPNs, and voting habits seem... awry, it must be immensely difficult for him not to presume that people are upvoting eachother systematically to have their way with his website. Imagine that perspective and imagine how demoralizing it must be.
Now imagine he does something about it, and those same people, using VPNs, attack him viciously for having done so. Imagine how demoralizing that must be.
I bet he feels that he has almost no options at all.
If it weren't for his commentary about srayzie and kevdude being builders, I would be proud of his recent actions... but now he's sounding like Maduro congratulating his generals on their psychological warfare.
Do I really sound so off-base to you?
Fateswebb ago
Putit said they don't look at IP ADDRESSES when they run bans for vote manipulation. So VPN isn't even a factor.
Womb_Raider ago
I think they should be reviewed also, but due to VPN, they're more or less useless so it's probably best that he does not. He needs to look at which accounts interact with each other, how they interact, what philosophy they promote... it's a very intensive job that no dull man could perform. My points remain.
Fateswebb ago
Well yeah, I mean if there are 5 accounts all at the same IP all vote brigading then that seems obvious.
MrPim ago
You do not sound of base. I am able to view things from Putts perspective(partially anyway). I understand that Putt would like Voat to grow and if he could monetize it. He's put in a lot of work and if I'm not mistaken his own money. It's completely natural for him to want to reap some rewards. I can understand that if he thought there were a group manipulating things he'd have concerns. There are a couple things though;
First. This is really the first of these threads I've taken part in. I haven't gone on and on complaining.
Second. If he thought there was a group doing this he'd need to look pretty carefully at records. And this sounds like he tried to use an automated approach which didn't work.
Lastly. Putts perspective and goals are different than mine. Putt wants Voat to grow. While I sympathize, my goal is to keep Voat as small and non shity for as long as possible. The growth Putt naturally desires will be the ruination of Voat. It is inevitable. Voat is what it is because of the slow controlled growth. So you see in even the most basic of things here, Putt and my goals are diametrically opposed. While I can see things from his side I often disagree.