Read CONTEXT at end of post
Currently Voat’s "Private" subverse feature is primarily used to allow subs to disassociate their posts from v/all, all content is still public in every sense other than this. This isn’t really private, it’s more like a hidden setting.
For internal reasons Voat needs to implement a private subverse feature in which only approved people have access to the subverse content (pro tip: a lot of features we work on and end up offering were/are primarily developed for internal reasons like the upcoming Vote and Packages features).
Before we start any work on this feature, I want to discuss how to develop this feature and get your feedback and concerns.
As I see it, we have the classic concept of Private in which only approved people (members) can access subverse content. The only question is one of implementation: what controls access to subverse: subscriptions or moderator privileges? If we use subscriptions, we will have to modify the process so that moderators can approve a subscription request, otherwise the moderator feature would suffice. If we use a moderator approach, other users can see who is part of the private subverse which is good for transparency. Pros/cons to both approaches.
Some concerns I see:
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Should we have different "Private" settings like a ReadOnly
differentiation so that a subverse can choose to display content to non-members but not allow non-members to submit posts/comments i.e. a read only approach?
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What if a subverse is private and a new subscriber is added, should this new member have full access to subverse content or should all content submitted before they were added be inaccessible to them? In other words, only content submitted after a user became a member is visible to them. This concern is to allow existing members to be reassured their prior content is protected.
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Should private subverse content show up in front-page/sets or should the subverse content only be accessible via navigating to the subverse itself?
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Should pings be dropped when the target user isn’t a member?
There are probably other considerations I haven’t thought about, so let me know your thoughts.
CONTEXT
As with any change, we are all looking at the potential for abuse (which I see), so I want to give everyone a context of where this comes from so you can see the intentions involved with the thought.
I want to setup a corporate Voat instance for business related concerns that will be accessible by all Voat employees and members of the community that are involved with the operations of Voat (this is called dogfooding in the software world). In this instance I'd like to have a subverse about Finances that is restricted to only company executives, as well as a Legal subverse accessible to legal council, etc.
In these scenarios, private subverses are needed as a Voat developer or community manager wouldn't need access to this "sensitive" content.
I think it's important to note where this idea stems from and that this idea was never one of ill intention (i.e. This is the end of Voat!). This is why I mentioned "internal" above.
As always, we are just getting feedback here, let's try to look for solutions to the concerns rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Edit
Consensus is in: Voat loves this idea... Pause... Pause... Not. ;)
view the rest of the comments →
truthwoke33 ago
What are your plans to mitigate user abuse e.g. creating a secret CP sub or a harassment sub?
PuttItOut ago
This is a very good point. Every feature we dev has a negative side to it, and what you mention is one.
Maybe some way to counter/offset this perhaps?
Marou ago
I don't see how this feature can be implemented without having monitoring staff in place to prevent CP trading / terrorist planning / etc. I thought about it for a good while. So, if you create the feature - you guys use it for voat management, sure - but I don't think it can work exposed to regular users. In order to prevent it resulting a bullet that kills the site you'd have to water it down so much it no longer resembles the idea of "private subverse".
Justsomebullshitname ago
The very word secrecy is repugnant.
Crensch ago
All I'm seeing here is complaints that private messages are made easier between multiple people.
Private messages already exist. Is there a complaint about the difference between a private message and a private forum? I posit it is effectively the same thing.
If they have a problem with people getting together and brigading, that already happens from IRC, Poal, and Phucks.
I'm not exactly Pro private sub verse, but the absurdity of arguing against it when you also are not against private messages is pretty glaring.
If we are worried about vote manipulation, it's not like the jidf isn't here. If we are worried about Echo Chambers, it's not like those places don't exist. And since we already have private messages, people can get together and go to those Echo Chambers without anyone else knowing.
Honey_Pot ago
Kill all the Pedos?
zyklon_b ago
indeed komrade indeed
White_pride_cis ago
Yep. When this shit happens, the pedos come out.
albatrosv15 ago
Kikes, dude, kikes.
Derpfroot ago
Yeah, that's what he said.
HillBoulder ago
Dox and hunt. Could be a nice little honey pot, relevant u/.
rapedbyanape ago
V/beatlejuciegaschamber
truthwoke33 ago
And as expected, you give non answers to softball questions.
Why are you using resources on a feature that nobody requested? How does this benefit users?
daskapitalist ago
There's nothing wrong with transparency.
Schlomo-KikesDid9-11 ago
Because the Angel Investor is a KIKE
fuckmyreddit ago
It looks like our angel wants to make Voat into his own private heaven. I dont like Secret Societies or Honeypots. My advice to our angel is to keep the formula that works. Unless you're trying to clean this house up and flip it immediately, you're on the wrong path, Angel.
PuttItOut ago
I think everyone agrees that a "clean up" isn't in the works, nor would it work in the first place.
We have no intention of compromising on Free Speech, for better or worse.
fuckmyreddit ago
I am glad to hear that. I'm working with limited knowledge about the true situation on our angel, but I think free speech is the foremost issue for a lot of us.
jollux ago
Who is "we"?
awwisnotafarmpromise ago
You'd have to first have Free Speech in order to compromise it.
Voat doesn't have that, never did, never will apparently.
Buy hey, you duped a lot of morons into thinking there is, good skill with that.
Onefootwonder ago
What restrictions do we have on our speech? Other than "don't break the fucking law" considering that would get us shut down. Unless that's what you want.... Rabbi?
awwisnotafarmpromise ago
Voat is rigged to be an echo chamber. Always was, and it has only gotten worse. A handful of alts, like crenchdude, is all it takes to censor another user via the rigged voating system.
Onefootwonder ago
Would you rather there were no voting system in place for posts and comments? Or is there a different solution?
awwisnotafarmpromise ago
The voating system is garbage. It adds nothing but censorship.
Onefootwonder ago
Just a suggestion, but have you tried staying on the anonymous Voat subs? Some don't have usernames or active voting systems for comments. Might suit your needs a little better.
awwisnotafarmpromise ago
reddit censorship faggot confirmed.
LMAO.
Onefootwonder ago
Coming from the guy who is obviously butthurt about his comments being downvoted and minimized. Yep, I'm definitely the faggot here.......
Stop associating your personal value with a comment scoring system. Real men don't evaluate themselves based around likes and dislikes on social media. Ignore your comment score history. It means nothing.
awwisnotafarmpromise ago
I don't give a fuck if you like what I say or not.
But stop lying about voat being 'free speech', it is not and that make you a lying piece of shit.
Onefootwonder ago
You care so much that you think that downvotes equal censorship. Maybe you just don't know the meaning of the word. Either way, I'm leaning more towards you being a kike shill though.
awwisnotafarmpromise ago
They do you retarded fuckwit. As I explained above.
Unfortunately your mother fucked too many niggers when you were in the womb, and your brain is too damaged to understand the simplest things now.
Onefootwonder ago
I kind of feel bad for how hard you have to try to talk shit. I also feel bad for you for thinking someone not liking your words is equal to censorship. I mean this sincerely: take an online Asperger's test. It's not a guaranteed diagnosis, but it might help you figure yourself out a bit. Good luck, sport.
RoBatten ago
The fact that you can say that here . . .
ratsmack ago
The whole point of this is to gather information... it's just a discussion at this point, so there s no need to treat it as being set in stone.
truthwoke33 ago
Ok but
I don't understand how this benefits voat. He specifically said 'for internal reasons' meaning this feature was not a user request.
ratsmack ago
I believe that because he want's this for internal reasons, he decided to ask the community if this would be useful for anyone... it's just a discussion.
truthwoke33 ago
That would clarify greatly. I don't however apologize for being abrasive, I won't trust voat and I will inform other users to be as suspicious as possible until we know who's funding the show. It could genuinely be a state funded honey pot, but either way we're getting no answers.
The fact that this one of the first features announced since voats purchased, just weirds me out more.
PuttItOut ago
You have a right to be suspicious. I would be too if I were you as you don't know me.
What you have to understand is I have a reason for everything I do even if it doesn't satisfy your concerns. This world is a crazy place and we have to be careful.
Justsomebullshitname ago
That line sold me on never trusting you. I’m out ✌️
jollux ago
We need more information. You're asking us to blindly trust you here. We do not. At least give a vague outline of the reason why you need private subverses. If you cannot, we will assume that you are using it to harm us.
Onefootwonder ago
It's so Voat employees can have private communication channels, like all tech companies have. The post is about whether or not we want them for ourselves as well. I'm leaning towards no. I can't see any benefit really.
Rawrination ago
Every time this happens on a forum, the SJW crowd uses them to start taking over. Every Time.
Onefootwonder ago
I'm not familiar with it enough, but I believe you They are experts at hijacking others people's work after it's complete and taking control/credit of it.
Rawrination ago
I was around when the_donald on reddit got hijacked and taken over. That's how I ended up on voat.
doginventer ago
This makes sense to me as an option you want to be holding moving forward.
While I naturally approve the dogfood scenario I do think that the culture of voat would probably be adversely affected by rolling out the feature much beyond that.
PuttItOut ago
And you speak for everyone? You are one person and I take what you say as such. Back off with the absolutes and I'll take you seriously.
I said "internal" reasons earlier.
daskapitalist ago
I dont know why people are freaking out over the proposal of dogfooding by using Voat for internal collaboration instead of email.
Plenty have provided feedback that there would be unintended/undesirable consequences, but that's no conspiracy. Just valuable feedback.
CameraCode ago
He speaks for me.
PuttItOut ago
Found the alt! jk
SaveTheChildren ago
Youre a dumb tranny everyone hates your dumb idea but youll do it anyways because trannies are horrible people
lukynumbrkevin ago
What are the "internal" reasons for creating this feature?
daskapitalist ago
Dogfooding is an extremely common business practice in tech companies.
SaveTheChildren ago
Internal means... putt is gonna do it anyways so shut up you dumb plebs. Right @puttitout ?
PuttItOut ago
No, not really. I post these kinds of topics primarily to see what the negatives are as I often don't see the entire picture without feedback.
It's a tranny thing ;)
jollux ago
Nice deflection. You still haven't answered the question.
137 ago
Winkey face! So cute. Bet your t rex arms are even cuter
BaldMiscreant ago
Wait, what?
PuttItOut ago
Just tranny things ;)
STC thinks I'm a tranny
lord_nougat ago
He likes to think that everyone is a tranny. It's his fetish.
PuttItOut ago
It's the machine gun tactic, eventually you'll hit the target.
Gottmituns ago
Yeahn but he thinks actual trannys aren't trannys.
BaldMiscreant ago
Ah.
NNdmt ago
that is the real question here. What possible reasons do you have for needing a private subverse for internal use? If its for testing, that shouldn't be done on the production server in the first place
The_Raven ago
And where no one can hear you ping. This worries me because we already know certain mods are brigadier gangs. Private subs would only make them stronger and more malicious.
Der_Untergang ago
I mean you could answer the question.
BaldMiscreant ago
Sounds like he wants a dev sub that you can't gawk at.
jollux ago
If it were just that, wouldn't he say it? We would all be just fine with that.
daskapitalist ago
Because the feature can be developed multiple ways and have other applications than just internal collaboration.
truthwoke33 ago
Ok, I respectfully ask what, in your opinion, the benefit of private subs is to the user base of voat. I'm on the website very frequently, including site subs so honestly, yes I'm pretty confident in saying that a very small minority may be requesting such a feature. Thanks for your reply.
Though, to be honest, I don't trust anyone who has mystery investors. I just can't, it doesn't make sense from a business perspective.
CameraCode ago
Exactly, if this feature is never going to reach us, why ask our opinion on it? private subs will do nothing but lower the quality of Voat and upset the userbase if given to users.
cthulian_axioms ago
I don't want to put words in Putt's mouth, but from where I'm sitting it looks like he's holding himself to the same standard he would hold other website admins. Transparency, even over seemingly trivial things, is something we should expect of any leader, even one as fearless as Putt.
BaldMiscreant ago
It could have uses with families, game developers, prepper groups, militias, etc that don't want their conversations to be public. We can't rely on anything outside of in person contact for that without five governments knowing what your favorite color is.
downton-stabby ago
Internet is anything but private, and never will be. Any attempt to do so is just an illusion.
PuttItOut ago
Added some context to the post to address where the idea stems from.
I can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with everything you said. To build on your thoughts... The Vote feature that will soon be released will be restricted heavily, and I can see the same course of action if we develop out Private subs.
truthwoke33 ago
I will say I'm glad to hear you've been working on improving the vote system and I'm interested in seeing what you release.
Native ago
Stop attacking puts, he is looking to improve features. No everything is a great idea and hence why he is asking. Tone down your rhetoric it's not needed now
SaveTheChildren ago
REEEEEEEEE 'mods are gods ' go back to plebbit
Native ago
I've been here longer than you have
137 ago
Put it on your resumé
weezkitty ago
It isn't an improvement if it's most likely use case is abusive. It is abused on Reddit. We don't need that shit here. Full stop
Native ago
I didn't say it was an improvement. I have no opinion, what I did say is that there's no need for over the top autistic rhetoric.
Tzitzimitl ago
over the top autistic rhetoric is the only effective method of doing intangible shit
Native ago
lol other than not working being 100% effective
WhitePaladin ago
then stfu
Native ago
Oy vey
sakuramboo ago
Unless all users can interact with a subverse, there should not be any affect to SCP/CCP in said subverse.
PuttItOut ago
We already have many settings that stop the accumulation of CCP/SCP in various subverses, this would extend to this feature if developed.
No points in restricted subverses, so no farming would be possible (in theory, not considering abuse and work arounds we haven't shut down as people are very creative).
Demonsweat2 ago
Creating farms for personal gain.
Thatsthewayitwas ago
Simple, private subs don't geneate upvotes on a global level. Private subs can be viewed by everyone but can only be interacted with by group members. Usernames are blocked out for non members. They can still be found using serch or random function.
deathhand ago
Everyone would end up raw from the circle jerking