The fact that @puttitout banned aged based purely on a brigaded request thread by people who themselves are spammers (and unlike aged their 'spam' wasn't even relevant to the subverse).
Like it's very hard to feel sympathy for someone like /u/aged, but this uneven enforcement is ridiculous, why is /u/theoldones not banned when he spammed /v/gaming constantly with self posts reqursting /u/aged to be banned? Are these relevant to gaming but lewd fanart of adult female game characters is not?
If puttitout can give an explanation of which rule was broken I'd be ok with it, but as it stands "im a dictator lmao" is not an excuse to ban a user.
SimonWest ago
Seems that way. Yeh :|
fightknightHERO ago
fuck off you anime masturbator, aged was spamming the forum with low effort unrelated content and he was justly banned for it
if you're so keen on masturbating to anime, i suggest you head to sankaku complex and stay there.
this is GAMING, porn has NOTHING to do with GAMING
DeadFox ago
Don't defend a pedo
WhiteWolfSS ago
Go to DeviantArt for your degenerate pedo weeb shit.
SearchVoatBot ago
This submission was linked from this v/gaming comment by @sguevar.
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sguevar ago
How is art work related to gaming?
How is posting constantly lolicom pictures about game characters related to gaming?
How is it that the user never in one of his posts generated any discussion about art work in the game development AND MARKETING?
I find your position completely moronic to say that his content was gaming related when in fact it isn't. Disrespecting Rule 1. I also find it moronic to say it wasn't spam when he keeps the continuous posting of said pictures that help marketing the product related to that character.
The user is more than welcome to create a subverse for fan art and art work for the game.
Thrus2 ago
1 Please define art work. because if we use user made content containing characters from the game, that sounds dumb. If we say user made content we are also including mods that have images that were not sourced from the original game.
2 Let me make the same statement but cut a few words, "How is posting pictures about game characters related to gaming"
3 not commenting means a ban then we should ban all the bots on here as well, searchvoatbot derran bitchutearchive as they never comment either or at least almost never.
Broc_Lia ago
This guy has been trying to bend the rules to his preference in almost every comment. If you don't let him away with "game art isn't related to games," he'll try "game art is commercial content because it's related to a commercial product (the game)."
sguevar ago
You never addressed any of the things I said in here.
1 - Artwork - corresponds to the artistic expression for marketing purposes in order to attrack players to play said game. For example StarCraft 2 has a lot of Artwork this doesn't mean that it's artwork is related to his gaming capabiliies.
2 - So how are they related?
3 - No ne said not commenting. User never addressed any discussion about the subject he just spammed images. What you are stating here is completely stupid because you can't be banned for commenting or not perse (G.G) You are banned for spamming. Like the user did.
Talc ago
probably as well not to refer to people as spammers unless they're actually spamming, ie stealing advertising. Think I've said that before, many times, to Putt, to Atko, been saying it since before voat had a spam reporting system, been saying it since the 1990s when most of the world thought spam was just a brand of canned meat and half of them had no intent of ever "going online". By using the wrong word you just muddy the water and give the accused party an opportunity to deny, why not use the right word and take away the opportunity?
So now we've got a situation where someone posts unwelcome risque material and is labelled a spammer, but someone who sets up fake blog sites for their spamvertisements to sit on and then uses an automaton to mass post links to that site isn't a spammer. I can't cope with that level of mental gymnastics at all, that's got exactly the same flavour as the reddit tier nonsense which got me here instead of there in the first place. Hope it gets sorted, really don't want to have to move again.
Mustard_Monkey ago
Perhaps a list of Games to talk about: genre-fantasy, sci-fi, steam punk etc, types of games- board, pc, console, and hand held. Types- mmo, fps, rpg, mmorpg, and etc. Other platforms- Steam, Origin, and direct from software company. Must be specific about gaming.
alalzia ago
His stats show ~17.5 posts per day , every day for 3.2 years .
I am not commenting on admin's decision or Laurentius position .
Thrus2 ago
where can you see this? I'm honestly curious as there are others that would be interesting to look up as well.
The_Venerable ago
The guy was spaming a board with unrelated content. He could'v easily made a subverse to post said content. He was being annoying on purpose and wouldn't stop when asked. Fuck him.
TheUltimateQuakerII ago
He was a bot. He purposely spammed here instead of v/TheAnimeReich
Thrus2 ago
Is a screenshot of a game unrelated to the game? what if it is cropped down to just one character in the game? What if it is a drawing of that same character? Well by you definition the last question there is that it is no longer related to gaming, in fact the logical next step of that is anything that was fan made would not be related to gaming. So that means mods are not gaming related either.
I found no value in what he was posting but I can't say it was unrelated to gaming. It seems to me that many that wanted him banned were mostly supporting that based on content that he posted in other subs not in this sub. Every argument here came down to one of 3 things, I don't like the content, he might start posting cp in the future, his content in other subs offends me. None of those were a reason to ban him from here.
The_Venerable ago
If someone posted a single drawing of a character I doubt anyone would care. Even if it was hentai, it would just get downvoted. But to continue to post the content over and over when it was clearly pissing people off is being unreasonable, especially on a system sub.
PuttItOut ago
I'm glad you made this post now. Because we do need to work to define a new rule about people who disrupt things on purpose.
They abuse the mere fact that we don't typically ban and then shit on everything. Think about the v/aww thing a few months back. That was complete BS.
So how do we phrase this rule?
Octocopter ago
Banning a user out of the blue after listening to a post where the user referred to it as a "subreddit" then making up a reason after that fact. What a joke.
PuttItOut ago
You're a joke. That isn't what happened. I have way more information than you and I chose descretion on openness for discussion purposes. Not a joke.
Octocopter ago
Got your attention enough to trigger you over it, my bet is you are second guessing the way you handled it. So a discussion about changes to the way rules are being applied happening after a ban took place is not how it happened?
How about the Noids like Ghostskin and his alts that spam and shit across multiple subs with post that have fuck all relation to the subs they are posted in? You cant tell me they are less of a Noid than Aged posting tangentially related content to one sub.
You want my input on it? reverse the ban and issue a warning to the rule change and add the side bar to force all remotely possible NSFW content to be flagged as such. IF he breaks any rules after it being updated no one has any right to complain about him being banned.
PuttItOut ago
Well this is a better expression of communication.
Octocopter ago
I am sure you understand mine and others frustration about this well enough.
PuttItOut ago
It's the purpose of the sticky. To facilitate communication about a rather complex subject.
SearchVoatBot ago
This comment was linked from this v/OneTruePutt submission by @PeaceSeeker.
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Octocopter ago
Aged should have been banned for posting real children long before this became an issue. All around the world people get banned and even arrested for sharing pictures from those [eastern European modeling agencies] Hell even 4chan in the old days would ban IPs for posting that and they were pretty hardcore in to the freedom of what could be shared and said.
My concern is that the ban was made for a rule not clearly defined. Was it not flagging all his moderately NSFW posts as NSFW, the number of posts made, is 3rd party fan art and other content to be counted as spam, is it some concept that he was doing to target the users of the sub.
Any choice you make on how you define that ruling will impact Voat and I don't like how you did that this time. I have a lot of faith and support for what you have provided for us this just really irks me.
carlip ago
You phrase it as "degree of separation".
A post about a game is 1 degree of separation. A post about a 3rd party game character is 2 degrees of separation.
So just decide how many degrees of separation you want to allow.
Also fuck down vote meanie.
ex-redd ago
I respect you greatly, but I am not a fan of any subjective ban system.
we are all wrong from time to time, and have biases we ourselves are blind to. I like hard-nosed principles, e.g. US constitution, and am less of a fan of more impermanent/less-universal rule making (but such is nessecitated by practicality at times).
I guess you are saying this generally falls under spam, but "spam" has a wide definition.
What were the motivations of u/Aged and v/aww. I know they were karma whores, but Aged did it like a full time job.
I have noticed some users with a lot of CCP, but otherwise very "shill-like" behavior.
Broc_Lia ago
I've finally gotten around to having a look at the stuff he posted and honestly I'm wondering what the fuss is all about. They're not even lolis, unless prepubescent girls have D cup breasts now. Also, the only character I actually recognise is an adult ingame.
Was there more stuff that was so bad it had to be deleted and not even show up in the removed submissions log?
Anyhow, at the very most a new sub specific spam rule might be appropriate. Something like "Users may not make more than five posts of the same type per day, with the exception of news articles."
ex-redd ago
not too much or too bad on v/gaming to my knowledge or in my opinion.
The guy used to post normal ass-and-titty stuff-- I remember something from years ago (a gif of woman jumping/tit-bouncing--it was an enjoyable, not really even NSFW, thing to see [by all accounts normal]).
Then, all of a sudden loli shit starts showing up on v/all en masse. u/Aged posting to the loli sub. I really don't get it.
Broc_Lia ago
Like I said, if there were a "no loli shit" rule for /v/gaming then I wouldn't mind that. Just saying that what I've seen of his posting here so far is pretty mild.
frenemy ago
the problem with this is who decides if it's sexualised? what if it's original game art that depicts a young looking girl in a skin tight suit? is it porn then? i would point at skullgirls as an example. that rule would make the entire game persona non grata in v/gaming.
Broc_Lia ago
That doesn't look sexualised to me, but I acknowledge that it's a subjective term. I don't think there's a perfectly objective solution here, that one's just a reasonably good one that seems to work well for a lot of other online art communities.
frenemy ago
haha you didn't see the screenshot did you. here you go
that's a bannable offense now.
Broc_Lia ago
Imgoat's cert is expired. Do you still have it saved somewhere?
Talc ago
The answer to HOW should be to invite community input, try make rules without loopholes and without overreach, same as any other rule.
More important than HOW, is WHEN do we phrase this rule.
phrase it BEFORE you use it. At worst this would mean putting up with the miscreants for a day or two longer. The opposite will cause pointed fingers of mistrust which will last years. There's plenty of people queueing up for the first opportunity to wave a finger at voat. Perhaps you should "mea culpa" and undo any pre-emptive bans you made under a rule which did not exist. Make the rule, give the miscreants the opportunity to obey it, also gives them enough rope to hang themselves under the new rule. Pretty sure you'll be re-doing the same bans within days, but at least it's all documented above board and beyond suspicion.
Wahaha ago
Just unban him. The content was fine and ontopic. There doesn't need to be another rule. But maybe consider banning the niggerfaggots complaining all day about this. They are kind of obnoxious with their spamming.
frenemy ago
the problem is that you took action before a rule was in place. now it looks like you will do whatever you want, regardless of any free speech ideology the site may have had, then make up reasons for doing so after the fact. it's perceived as being really slimy. at least from where i sit.
frenemy ago
i think we should ban people i don't like too.
Podd ago
Voat is the free speech place on the internet. So I can understand Laurentius viewpoint. However, if I were in your shoes Putt i'd have done the same thing. Maybe the solution is adding an option to block a user and their submissions right next to the option to save a post or thread.
Having to click someones name and then opening a new page and then clicking block is too much work for most people. lol.
TopShelfPrivilege ago
I don't know specifically about the rule regarding aged, but I propose another new rule against being intentionally obtuse in bad faith and banning Laurentius_the_pyro under that rule.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
If you really can't stand alone disagreeing with you on the internet then maybe you should go back to Reddit.
TopShelfPrivilege ago
I've been here longer than you have you whiny little bitch. You failing to see the difference between aged, who was participating in bad faith (similar to how you're being a fucking retard in bad faith right now) and something that actually matters just proves my point. Kindly choke on a dick and die.
TheBuddha ago
If you're going to be that subjective, and you may need to, then I'd suggest an entirely new rule.
"Making Putt clean up after you."
I may be drinking, but right now that idea seems pretty good. Don't cause drama by doing stupid shit that makes the admin have to pay attention. Ideally, the admin shouldn't even know most usernames. If you know their username, they're probably a problem.
Granted, I much prefer a hands off/minimal approach, but I'm not the one that gets hundreds of retarded pings every day.
I wish you luck! If you need a picture of a middle finger and help burning the place to the ground, let me know!
Broc_Lia ago
Two problems:
Putt's intervention arguably wasn't necessary here
That effectively makes it ok for putt to delete anything then ban the user because he had to clean up after them. The whole point of this is to have clear rules about what kind of content should be removed and under what circumstances users can be banned.
TheBuddha ago
Also, I responded twice. Now three times!
I do what I want!
Broc_Lia ago
None of your purple-glitter-shitposts here Buddha :P
TheBuddha ago
Yeah, but he does have a great deal of history of making good choices.
This is one that I can't agree with, but I doubt it is a trend or slippery slope. I have pretty good expectations from Putt and he hasn't failed much.
I really, really don't agree with his choice this time. Calling it spam really bends those rules.
Broc_Lia ago
I'm not ragging on putt too much, I don't think it was a disasterously bad decision or anything, just don't personally disagree with it. In fairness he's acknowledged that there's controversy and he's trying to put solid rules in place. That's more than any reddit shitmin would do.
TheBuddha ago
Absolutely. I don't think it's the start of a new trend or anything.
frenemy ago
the first time is the hardest. i would suggest a reread of animal farm. this never goes well.
'some animals are more equal than others.'
TheBuddha ago
I'm well aware. I am, for example, pretty much above rules and law. It's just reality and I don't try to abuse my privilege. (I have a few bucks and am devilishly handsome!)
But...
@PuttItOut has a history of making good choices and working his ass off for this site. So, I doubt it's a slippery slope.
Again, I don't agree with this decision - for the reasons I've made clear in my other posts. But, it's not my job to agree, nor is it his job to care what I think.
Finally, this is Putt. He's a grown adult male. He will think about this. If he changes his mind, he will do so openly and let folks know he felt his decision was made in haste/whatever. He's been pretty fucking good at being an admin on a site filled with idiots. I have some trust in his decision making skills and a great deal of trust in his openness. He'll man up, if he needs to change it. I'm nearly positive of this.
Hell, you've been here longer than I have! (I just hovered over your username!) You know damned well that he has a good history AND that he's able to change his mind. I have some trust in him.
frenemy ago
so i have a second hand promise that things won't get worse. excuse me if i don't take you at your word.
even if he does change his mind, at this point a lot of damage has already been done. free speech is not a guiding principle here while this happens. that's stealing trust from a subset of users. it didn't have to go that way.
i truly hope you are right. there aren't many places for people like me to speak our minds. it would be a true loss if this one was no longer trustworthy.
TheBuddha ago
You don't have my promise of anything. You do have my expectations explained. It's just that, and nothing more.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't agree with Putt's decision here. As much as I'm not really happy with @aged's content, my view is that he violated no specific rules. To me, it seems like folks finally got what they wanted and 'spam' is just the justification used after the fact.
"Let's hang him now. We'll find him guilty of something tomorrow."
That's what it seems like to me.
I think it was a bad action. I don't think it sets a bad precedent, because history shows us Putt makes good choices the overwhelming majority of the time. I think it's a singular error, but I could be wrong. I'd like to think Putt has been a pretty good defender of the liberty of free speech. At the end of the day, he's still human and mistakes will be made.
I guess I'm suggesting we sharpen our pitchforks, but not yet openly brandish them. We could maybe sit on the porch and sharpen them where we can be observed, just to make sure we know they know our intentions!
frenemy ago
well, we agree it's a bad action now. maybe that's good enough for this situation.
TheBuddha ago
If we use that link, it wasn't spam,
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Maybe an announcement or stick post would be a good idea to get the communities input on this?
PuttItOut ago
No Noids. Lol, since nulls are... Well... null, the term noid sounds funny. It's something I could hear a first year com science student call a null.
Noid: Repetitive, low value, low effort submissions that do not get much interaction.
But aren't we back at Spam now?
White_pride_cis ago
Yeah, I have to agree with OP on this one. But, there needs to be a clear definition of what spam is. Go to QRV, and the whole place is literally verbal diarrhea, caps lock, and non-weaponized autism. It fits your definition to a “T”, so are you going to ban that whole sub?
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
maybe... but at the same time aren't 'noids' the kind of thing that would be handled via downvoats in a system sub? (as some/many of aged's posts were, while others were popular).
PuttItOut ago
Aged is a mild example of this, v/aww was the extreme side of it.
Even heavily down voted content is a nuiciance, especially on subs people often sort by new.
AR47 ago
Then here is a real idea.
Make each sub have a threshold limit of downvotes before a user is extremely limited to submit content. Sure they can comment, but ain’t that the freedom of speech aspect?
This way you can also see who is brigading posts as well from your admin side somehow? I don’t know how your technical shit works or even the terminology really, but I do know people, and they will use this feature to eventually try to get specific users from posting within their subverses.
Honestly it is a good way that allows the subverse to decide who gets what.
Obrez ago
I'm not sure I'm up to speed with what happened over at v/aww, (gore spam getting banned/removed for unrelated?) anyway I think it sucks but case by case is how such rules against low effort content aught to go and "low effort" should be defined somewhere in detail for each sub, I'd be wary of banning "subversive" content though as tempting as that is it could back fire easily.
I don't think it's going to cause a real stink if users doing some fucky shit, like aged exploiting the lax rules of v/gaming, for whatever ends, require implementation of new, reasonable rules designed to prevent their fuckery, but even still there is some satisfaction in seeing aged getting downvoated for his narrowly related smut.
You do a fine job at all of this, us niggers are just jumpy like battered wives.
Schreiber ago
Those aww faggots like gabara and co were forum sliding and using gore as an excuse.
The whole aww subverse should just be made private. It's a retarded circle jerk garbage that is exact same shit as reddit version and has no purpose whatsoever but for fags to farm votes by reposting aww shit from other place.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
I'd argue that aged posts and the /v/aww situation aren't really that similar, otherthan "lots of posts people don't like".
In the /v/aww situation the posts were antithetical to the purpose of the sub, nobody thinks a severed head is "cute".
While in aged's case the posts were technically on-topic as they were of video game characters and the sidebar/rules didn't say anything to exempt this from being on topic.
Fair point. I was initially thinking of auto minimizing posts below below a certain amount of SCP like how comments work but with how little space any specific post takes up on a page already It probably wouldn't make a big difference to just ignoring posts you don't like.
Perhaps if there was the optional (opt-in on the users part?) to completely hide posts below a certain amount of SCP, possibly with a button on the page to reveal all the hidden posts? maybe it's worthy of putting up for discussion so the community can look for any flaws in the idea I may have missed?
TheUltimateQuakerII ago
Aged posts belong in v/TheAnimeReich not here. Loli shit isn't "gaming".
theoldones ago
i can think of about ten ways to abuse that rule for shilling against a target, immediately.
UsedToBeCujoQuarrel ago
I'd like to point out that one of the big abusers of this board is the idiot GhostSkin and his alts. He goes in fits shitting all over the place with spam. Then he changes his user name.
Would banning his IP work?
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
IP bans are a meme, anyone over the age of 9 can evade one.
UsedToBeCujoQuarrel ago
Yeah. But GhostSkin appears to be so stupid he might not be able.
Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago
IP bans don't work.
UsedToBeCujoQuarrel ago
Ninja Assassins then
theoldones ago
amend the spam rule to cover obvious trolling, as well as commercial interests?
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
you mean like Valve changing their polciy to only ban games that were "outright trolling" but then became even more arbitrary with their bans?
PuttItOut ago
This is a very good point.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
I know this isn't a situation that's easy to figure out.
theoldones ago
i'm hearing a lot of complaints out of your mouth but zero counter-suggestions.
JeffreyMcMillinface ago
As I recall he was always posting the same stuff in multiple Subs. It was annoying when browsing new.
CatsControlTheEU ago
1967 submissions to loli
1909 submissions to lolicon
Hentai style CP, that's what lolicon is. He is also apparently subbed to a subverse named toddlercon which I don't even want to look at. Being subbed to that shit isn't a rule break but this is the kind of guy he is. People were not getting pissed at him for just posting adult hentai. They're getting pissed because he also posts fucking loli.
On whether or not you can constitute his shit as spam and consider it ban worthy I have no opinion. I'm frankly just surprised that loli is legal in general.
Thrus2 ago
If we are going to take actions against him here for for submitting to other areas should we also take action based on what someone submitted to with their reddit account, or for having a reddit account at all? If they are breaking rules here yes go after them but because they submitted to somewhere you don't like is not a reason to ban them from somewhere else on a free speech site.
Broc_Lia ago
Which is the problem. If users who don't break the rules get banned because of other content which also doesn't break the rules but those users don't like it then it sets a bad precedent.
Well... it doesn't involve any actual children, so there's that. Incidentally it's not legal in a bunch of countries, including australia which even jails people for taking pictures of their kids in the bath or their "young looking," but adult, girlfriend.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
If his any of his posts broke site wide rules then he should be banned for that, not by changing the definition of "spam" to include his posts.
CatsControlTheEU ago
I get that and what you're saying. I also get that you're afraid of this place turning into another dictator reddit clone where people are removed just because mods don't agree with them. But just as you like to point out fallacies in arguments you're kind of pulling a slippery slope one right now. Banning a (legal) mass posting CP fag doesn't mean Putt is going to go full on dictator. I think you're overreacting on that regard.
That being said...just as arresting someone for something that wasn't illegal when they committed that something is unconstitutional in practically every nation with an actual constitution, I agree with you.
The rules can be changed to include that shit as spam from now on or some other ne rule can be added...but I suppose this pedophile motherfucker should be unbanned because those rules were not in effect prior to the ban.
I hate myself for saying this but I think you have a point.
He's still a faggot pedo that deserves to die. I'm going to vomit.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
I'm with you on this.
I goddamn hate that I've been forced to defend someone I detest.
fuckingmockies ago
Lmfao doesn't seem that way. Looks like you're having a really good time virtue signaling.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
So I see we've entered into the "words mean whatever I want them to mean" stage of clown world.
Throwing around buzzwords doesn't make you correct.
fuckingmockies ago
Posting porn in a gaming sub is about as "on topic" as it would be to post a porn of people fucking in the back of a car to v/cars just because there's a car in it.
It's off topic and spam and you know it. Or maybe you don't know it. You're either virtue signaling about free speech when it's not a free speech issue, it's a categorization issue, or you're retarded. Can't think of a third option except, unless you're a pedophile as well as aged and your pro aged posts are just solidarity with a fellow predator.
Themooninthesky ago
@aged what’s the story from your end?
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
He can't reply because he's banned.
Themooninthesky ago
But he’ll be unbanned. Just like dial_indicator
PuttItOut ago
Yup, I banned him and I stand by it.
CatsControlTheEU ago
I hate that pedo faggot and I was one of the people who wanted him gone. But there is also an additional point brought up, what exactly constitutes spam in this case? I realize many things must be considered on a case by case basis but what was the deciding factor for el pedo?
Where the posts were submitted?
The content?
The amount of submissions?
Repeated submissions to different subs?
A combination of these factors?
Seventh_Jim ago
A subjective test for obscenity is law of the land for the entire US. "Know it when I see it" is legal precedent. Should suffice here as well.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
That kind of logic would be used to ban the NZ shooting footage, or talking negatively about Jews.
Seventh_Jim ago
And yet nobody is asking for that to be banned here. We aren't even advocating clearing the site of pedo-bullshit. We want a continual spammer removed, partly for being an asshole who's using Alinsky rule 4 to fuck with us.
Broc_Lia ago
Wasn't that precedent (rightly) overturned? There's no point in having a subjective rule. The whole point of rules is to be as objective as possible.
Seventh_Jim ago
It was replaced with a community standards precedent that enabled places to ban pornshops outright.
Keeping a floating definition of spam provides a useful tool to deal with assholes who decide to stand just past the line.
I see it as an extra foot of chain on a dog leash.
Talc ago
the "know it when i see it" precedent, wasn't that Rowan vs USPS?. Unsolicited childrens underwear catalogs by postal mail which Rowan found to be disturbingly obscene, the precedent which allows US citizens to refuse advertising material by postal mail.
The problem I see with this is that the Rowan precedent has since been used against advertisements for everything from the county fair to the local auto dealership. You can claim that a text only ad for 25% off a quart of engine oil is obscene. It's a fair standard for your personal mailbox, but imagine trying to apply it in a public forum, it becomes a charter for what I can only describe as "SJW style political correctness". (I find vowels obscene, and caps, and punctuation, :- is clearly supposed to depict a cock-and-balls you sexist piece of shit, you're all repeat offenders of the worst type, ban everyone now! /s)
TheBuddha ago
I can't really agree with you here. Spam is so loosely defined and it seems a stretch to call his submissions spam.
Annoying? Yes. But spam? I'm not so sure it's spam and I'm not even sure if it's off topic.
So, for what it's worth (which is very little), I can't really agree with your justification. However, I ain't gotta agree and you ain't gotta give a shit about my thoughts on the subject.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Holy shit someone who actually read my post instead of just making up a strawman of what I had to say.
MadWorld ago
If it was banned for spamming reason, then it should equally be applied to all other users, unbiased.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
That's the second big problem I have with this ban (the first being that he didn't actually violate the subverse rules).
The most prominent person calling for aged's ban was himself posting/"spamming" posts that were more off-topic (as in not even tangentially related to games or gaming). If aged got banned so should he (I don't think either should have been).
If the subverse rules were just amended to ban repeated low-effort nsfw posts and then bans were handed out for posts made AFTER the rule change I wouldn't be complaining.
MadWorld ago
I totally agree with your reasoning. In my opinion, the correct course of action should have being creating new subverse rule first; then wait for submitter to break the rule. And only if this happens should this user be banned from the subverse. I also insist that subverse rules be as objective as possible and apply them unbiased, to all users.
Putt has history of doing the right thing. Maybe I have missed it somewhere. Has he explained this yet?
theoldones ago
you didn't choose a very good martyr i might point out. you're making that whole strawman task sort of easy.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
I know, but it's the old "if you don't protect the speech of the people you detest, you don't care about free speech at all".
I see it more like I'm the guy trying to demand that proper channels are used (i.e amend the rules and THEN ban him if he breaks the new ones) instead of pitchfork mob (ban him now and sort the rules out later/never).
theoldones ago
oh, okay.
you, need to fucking think for five minutes how to phrase your shit properly, before flying off the handle. currently, i have to work under the assumption you're a pedophile loli masturbator, and that the only reason you're throwing a shit fit is because one of your easy porn sources just got cut off.
regardless of whether or not that's true, you're making it really easy to think that's the case.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
No, YOU jumped to that assumption, and then continued with it after I explained by viewpoint.
Also who the fuck would use voat of all places as their source of wank material?
theoldones ago
u/Aged apparently thinks its a good idea. the more you actually talk about the why of this case the more you sort of undermine the guy you're trying to defend right now.
Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago
I would rather they ban you than aged.
Your posts actually break the rules
Obrez ago
You know he's a retard right?, did you read the username, he's the guy that was spamming half of voat last month for being "pedos" if they didn't acquiesce to his tard logic, I'm fairly certain you came forward and mentioned he spammed you too.
Broader context for anyone out of the loop: https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3043427
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
I did find it odd that he immediately accused me of being a pedophile, and upon realizing that I didn't have anything that could even be misconstrued as CP/loli/hentai/whatever in my submission history, and nothing but anti-pedo posts in my comment history just decided to quietly drop it.
PuttItOut ago
But I thought you would have burned Voat down a long time ago?
TheBuddha ago
Hells yeah, I would have. I'd have given 'em all the finger for being ungrateful, whiny cunts that pester you with trivial shit and make stupid fucking accusations about you.
I'd still have probably not banned him for spam.
For email, I much prefer the term 'UCE' (unsolicited commercial email). The 'spam' rule on voat seems Ill-defined and this ban seemingly muddies that definition even further. It's more like folks wanted him banned and that's just the excuse.
I'm not stupid enough to think this starts a trend or slippery slope, but it is pretty vague. You have a vast history of doing the right thing, so I doubt it's a trend.
If it were me, I'd probably have just banned 'em for being an antagonistic cunt in a system/default sub. Then I'd have burned the place to the ground and danced around the glowing embers!
Broc_Lia ago
I think it's pretty well defined, or at least as well defined as it can be: https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/2632810
PuttItOut ago
Fair
theoldones ago
pornography is not gaming.
pedophiles deserve no mercy.
go visit the loli sub if that's your fucking thing, leave it the fuck out of this place.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
He wasn't posting pornography.
No, I don't want to view that shit.
fuckingmockies ago
If the intent of the picture is to cause sexual arousal, it's pornography, not gaming.
theoldones ago
that motherucker was posting simply close-ups of characters asses.
wtf do you think was the point there?
should i explain how the birds and bees work, and why your dick isnt feeling alright? why it vomits white stuff sometimes?
well now, sounds to me like you know what the problem is!
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
And that post was downvoated and hidden because people (THE COMMUNITY) didn't think it was worthwhile, other posts were not because people liked them.
theoldones ago
A. the community hated those posts and that's why they got so many downvoates, and yet they still got posted
B. bot accounts. did you perhaps notice that at only 2 hateful comments, almost 15 downvotes could be balanced out by 15 upvotes? seems mighty odd none of those 15 upvotes thought to leave a comment that wasnt telling OP to kill himself...
frenemy ago
maybe they didn't want to listen to you moralizing.
theoldones ago
maybe you should eat a dick.
fuckingmockies ago
Maybe he could post a video of himself doing it to v/mealprep and complain that it's related to the topic of the sub enough to post there.
frenemy ago
looks like you two are already fellating each other. get a room.
Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago
Fuck off back to reddit where they agree with your shit ass logic
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Which rule did he violate?
PuttItOut ago
Spam.
SimonWest ago
Nope.
Broc_Lia ago
Just to be clear, does this definition still apply: https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/2632810
If so, then I don't see how he violated it unless he's recognisably the artist. You could argue to create another sub specific spam rule with a broader definition, but that doesn't exist yet.
Talc ago
if it wasn't unsolicited commercial posting you just shot yourself in the foot, big style. Keep the "spam" description for users who post commercial advertisements without paying for the privilege. Spam is theft, the average spammer would be allowed to post that type of content if they did it as a sidebar ad and paid for the privilege. Posting a load of abusive shit is not theft, you wouldn't let them do it for money, they're not evading a payment mechanism. One of the biggest complaints people had about reddit was shadowbans, a ban that was designed to thwart automated spam bots being used on real people, treating genuine users as shoddily as dumb spambots. You just did basically the exact same thing but without the secrecy. I'd suggest start backpedalling real quick, then do it all right and above board.
Wahaha ago
That's disingenuous. What he did wasn't spam. It was ontopic and well received by part of the community. There just was a loud minority complaining. You get those guys everywhere. Recently we opted to call them SJWs. Never listen to them.
Banning him with spam as the excuse is just the first step on the road to becoming reddit 2.0
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
How was anything he posted 'spam'? it was A. relevant to the subverse, and B. didn't violate any rules, and C. wasn't for commercial gain.
Are unpopular posts now considered spam?
fuckingmockies ago
If you posted pictures of girls fucking various fruits and vegetables, do you think it would be on topic to post it to v/JustGrowIt?
Broc_Lia ago
I don't think that's equivalent, but no it wouldn't be.
fuckingmockies ago
Why wouldn't it be equivalent? Vegetables are involved.
Broc_Lia ago
Games and game art often involve women in suggestive poses and outfits. Cooking doesn't typically involve fucking vegetables. If it does then I've been doing it wrong this whole time.
wylan ago
Quite the non sequitur you have here.
fuckingmockies ago
Apparently you don't know what a non sequitur is. People have been annoyed at aged for post porn in a gaming sub. Others claim it's on topic because the porn depicts video game characters. I made the analogy that porn would likely not be tolerated in a sub dedicated to gardening - even if the porn involved produce.
What part of that is a non sequitur to you? You might need to go to dictionary.com and remind yourself of what it is.
wylan ago
My mistake. I was actually wanting to use false equivalency as the logical fallacy of the statement.
fuckingmockies ago
Not every analogy is a false equivalency, though. Which part of it do you object to? If pornographic depictions of video game characters is appropriate for v/gaming, then surely pornographic depictions of vegetables is appropriate for v/JustGrowIt?
PuttItOut ago
This is ridiculous, and you know this.
Aged has been a complaint since the beginning of time. His contributions are not received well and off topic. v/Gaming is a system sub and I get the call on it.
17485281? ago
His posts were gaming characters. No different then someone submitting videos of someone doing their own arrangements of video game music. They were on topic.
And now we are getting calls to ban all gaming art, all "porn". https://voat.co/v/gaming/3104737
The rules they are clamouring for, means I can not submit this image to highlight DMC5 censorship.
The problem is you made the call, calling it spam. You now are saying aged was disruptive, was a complaint, and want the sub have a new rule "Because we do need to work to define a new rule about people who disrupt things on purpose."
frenemy ago
anything from the game skullgirls would be an insta ban.
Obrez ago
You get the concern though right? His content is technically gaming related even if they are basically all characters from obscure weeb games. Most of the time he's getting down-voted into the dirt because while the content isn't breaking sidebar rules users on v/gaming don't want inane degenerate R34 content shitting up the sub.
So is ~6-7 posts per day Spam? Even if it's organically slid by the community as intended? I get the feeling you are going to say "yes" but if that's the rule then you should be looking at other subs under this criteria because other influences and autists are getting away with a similar volume of posts. (I personally would love to see single day over day anon ID's and consistent in thread anon IDs so we can spot spam/subversion on anon subs.)
The concern is because people want almost 0 mod/admin action because precedents get set and shit unwinds that way. If there were a more specific rule he were banned for violating like "no low effort ecchi/porn submissions" I don't think folks would complain, maybe semantically about being banned for a rule instituted post factum but only for that reason not because they don't like the rule.
To clarify I don't think OP or other people concerned here support @aged, we don't like his "content", we just want to see him banned for something that is a clear violation and most of us really don't like theoldones because I know he's harassed OP and I both in the past and many others; he smacks of somebody trying to curry mod or admin favor for personal gain or to sate his power fantasy and while I don't think anything deeper is going on he's about as well like as aged for users who know him and his appearance of involvement here is putting sand in people's cunts.
TL;DR make a rule banning low effort ecchi/porn submissions on v/gaming, which means if it's not your art, your cosplay, your OC, or topical to current events it's low effort, an autist like aged would make a post or 6 breaking said rule and get banned.
frenemy ago
oh my god. here's were the sanity went.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Agree 100%
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
No, it's not. Freedom of Speech is never ridiculous. Bans for non-rule breaking content are not a laughing matter.
so what? if he didn't break a rule then it doesn't matter.
They were absolutely on-topic, them being not "well received" is not a justification for a ban? surely users can police their own content?
And I can call you out on uneven rule enforcement.
You cannot ban someone for violating unposted rules, this is redditry.
If the rules were appended to classify "fanart" posts as off-topic and then aged was banned AFTER the rule was posted then I wouldn't have a problem with this, but as it stands you're banning a user who did not violate any rules.
PuttItOut ago
I'll think about it. I'll at least do that.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
That's all I'm asking, we can't ban users just because we hate them.
if the rules were changed and he was banned for a violation after they were changed then I would have zero problems.
PuttItOut ago
My only counter to this is that it's ridiculous to post a list of everything that is/isn't against the rules. It's an endless list, much like Linux accepting the COC, now everything technically is or isn't against the rules depending on which way you argue it.
I refuse to play this game.
There is a common sense baseline that can't be ignored and to which my decision was made. That's the best I can explain it right now.
Wahaha ago
If you don't want to play the rule game, then don't touch the ban hammer. They go hand in hand. I agree the rule game is ridiculous, but I disagree that you should ban people just because you feel like it. There is no such thing as common sense in this world. It's common sense that six million Jews died in an event called the holocaust. That's what common sense is. Stuff you think everyone must believe. And Voat is the best example that this line of thinking is bullshit. So citing common sense on Voat won't necessarily find people agreeing with you.
Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago
Make it so blocking people hides there posts
PuttItOut ago
Yeah, we have this planned but in a pretty cool way.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
I understand this, but the only rule he can be argued to have broken is rule #1, but even then that's not true because his posts were related to gaming.
Well I hate him, and I really hate that you faggots are forcing me to defend him on principle.
PuttItOut ago
Lol, we are all fighting over someone neither of us prefers.
And it's by design if you ask me. People crave attention.
But I see your point about slippery slope. But I did ban him for spam... because no one seemed to want it.
Wahaha ago
Didn't you notice the upvoats on his posts? Those weren't alts. I like his stuff. If everyone hated his posts they would just get buried and we wouldn't have this conversation. You just listened to a loud, obnoxious minority. Just like all those corporations caving in to feminism.
Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago
Look at theoldones post history for ffs. He literally goes onto v/loli to tell them to kill themselves. This is nothing but a small group of people bandwagoning on an easy target.
It doesn't matter whether you like someone or not, let them have there say.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Ain't that the truth. I really don't like arguing with you, despite us greatly disagreeing on this situation I've had great respect for you in the past.
It really sucks because I don't think you'd go down the slippery slope, I still have too much respect for you to think that. But I thought the same thing about reddit 6 years ago and it got bad FAST.
I really don't like having to defend people I hate against people I like out of principle.
theoldones ago
you want this sub, the mainline gaming sub, to be instead v/loli
how about fucking no.
how about you go jack off somewhere else.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
No, all I want is for the rules to be changed to ban a style of post BEFORE a user is banned for breaking the non-existent rule.
theoldones ago
BULLSHIT
if that's what happened, you'd be hating that too.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
So apparently you think you known me better than I know myself, you fucking faggot.
All I want is for shit to be done fairly, once you allow a little bit of reddit-moderation then you eventually allow all of it. I don't want voat to turn into reddit in 5 years.
If the rules are changed to ban someone then they have to be banned AFTER the rule is changed, not before.
Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago
If you really hated loli you wouldn't be going on the sub telling people to kill themselves, you would have blocked it
Obrez ago
You probably just got on the cunts new shitlist here's what to expect: https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3043427
frenemy ago
i'm on his shit list, but at least he doesn't think i'm a bot. talk about annoying.
theoldones ago
"unpopular"
you sick fucks were jacking off in public to loli porn and acted shocked the gaming sub sometimes seemed dead.
stop doing this shit in public.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
Please continue with your stawman.
I personally downvoated most of ageds posts because I didn't like them, but you can't ban someone for making unpopualr posts when they explicitly do not violate the rules.
theoldones ago
spam rule. that's what he broke.
if he wasnt spamming, why was there so many posts for you to downvote.
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
explain.
that's terrible logic, if anyone who posts a lot is a spammer than a lot of voat should be banned.
theoldones ago
were the 6+ spam uploads of underage "fanart" not a tipoff?
puttitout just told you directly i had no involvement on his decision making. the fact you're still directing hate at me sort of shows your hand here.
Themooninthesky ago
That’s fucked up