Voat needs an Angel (announcements)

submitted ago by PuttItOut

Edit:

I'm simply blown away with you goats. I was expecting a somber farewell in this thread but instead you've done the exact opposite; pulled off a rally at the bottom of the 9th. On a personal note, and this may seem sentimental, but you have given me a new hope for Voat at very dark time for me.

All I can say now is: Let's do this! I think your message is clear. We have a ton of work to do, a short window in which to do it, and I fully understand I can't do it alone. We will need all hands on deck if Voat is to have any chance at survival.

I will post the plans I have for Voat as well as a status update on your contributions by Monday.

P.S. Old goats, be nice to the new kids. ;)

Original Post

As I sit here about to write one of the most difficult announcements yet, I was just reminded that my account is one month shy of three years old. Nearly three years ago I came here from Reddit when the vote counts disappeared and I felt I could no longer trust what I saw. Nearly three years ago I met @Atko and started contributing code because I believed in him, his mission, and what he was doing. So much has happened during these last three years.

I know a lot of you are new, but Voat has been through a wild ride, and never at any point was it an easy one. My memories are bittersweet when it comes to Voat. I’ve sacrificed the best years of my life for Voat, I’ve lost my business partner whom I miss a lot, I’ve lost people in my life, I’ve given up golf which was my passion, and even with all this I still believe in Voat. I still see the dire need for Free Speech in this world, I fear a world without it, and I still will do anything I can to continue providing it.

But alas, I am powerless to keep Voat running without financial support. As of right now Voat has no solid commitments. Voat has always needed a financial partner whom had balls of steel and backing deep enough to give Voat the capabilities to run as an actual business (being able to hire staff and set itself apart from its competitors), not just a one man show. Potential investors have one or the other of these traits, but we have yet to find one with both. In this day and age, this is Voat’s unicorn.

In the past Voat has been lucky enough to be part of special programs designed for startup companies which gave us free licensing on various products and significantly reduced hosting costs. These programs have since expired and we are now paying full costs. Last month was our first non-discounted month on Azure and the usage was $6,600.90 USD. Donations, ads, and merchandise only put a dent in this and this is the primary reason why we have not launched another merchandise run. And begging for donations was always something we hated doing.

I’m writing this announcement to prepare this community, and the Voat family, for the possibility of a closure. I’m not certain on timing and I have too much invested in this place to give up just yet, so I cannot provide any timelines. In the meantime, I will soon be scaling back all Voat’s servers by at least 50%. I will also turn off some features that are resource intensive.

Voat needs funding. Without it, Voat will be no more.

Voat needs an Angel

Canary

https://voat.co/v/announcements/1330806

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Nihilist ago

Fuck Microsoft azure. Go 100% Linux to save shitloads.

Licensing fees or for normie losers.

pagesix1536 ago

What this guy said and then some.

reeeeeeeeeeeee ago

lmao why the fuck is voat on azure to begin with

NeedPolyGF ago

Here, here! I like the sound of that. Go Linux; Screw Microsoft. Screw anyone who doesn't screw Microsoft.

redpilldessert ago

Do you know what Reddit uses?

greenfascist ago

I'm a little shocked it isn't on linux already.

This is the thing about the message boards of the world, they aren't that complicated, just some php, mysql, javascript and css. I can't see how the costs can be anywhere near as high as they are.

Riva ago

Traffic

greenfascist ago

yeah, but when a significant monthly expense is a licencing fee for azure, my sympathy drops off.

weezkitty ago

I don't get why they didn't start the porting effort before things got expensive. There is really no rational reason to run microshit

ShitArchon ago

I'm still pissed they implemented the Archived Thread feature--and the cutoff is even sooner than Reddit, 2 months instead of 5 months. I absolutely loathe that, it's worse than Reddit. I'd gladly donate if the admins will port to something better at load-handling than shitty Azure and then change commenting back.

JustAPseudonym ago

Why do you not like archiving?

ShitArchon ago

"You can't comment after 3 months" is a bullshit restriction that hampers what I can do. And it's more severe than Reddit.

And look at how they made the trophies ugly in the switch from alpha to beta. I absolutely refuse to donate if the admins have no intention of making the site better, not worse.

VoatRedditPort ago

Honestly, it isn't bullshit. Archiving saves resources/money.

ShitArchon ago

Then why didn't they do it earlier when supply greatly exceeded demand? And again, just because something saves money doesn't mean I have to smile and like the feature. Until the admins have any intentions of implementing the features I want, they're not getting a red fuckin' cent.

VoatRedditPort ago

Then why didn't they do it earlier when supply greatly exceeded demand?

Honestly? Inexperience. As far as I can tell they are just feeling their way along.

And again, just because something saves money doesn't mean I have to smile and like the feature. Until the admins have any intentions of implementing the features I want, they're not getting a red fuckin' cent.

I didn't say you had to donate. But no offense, unless you were personally planning to donate 100% of the operating costs, catering to you doesn't make any economic sense.

ShitArchon ago

Honestly? Inexperience. As far as I can tell they are just feeling their way along.

We're talking about people who knew what the loads were and even made a map game until Voat could be back online. That's more complex than auto-locking threads after a given time period.

But no offense, unless you were personally planning to donate 100% of the operating costs, catering to you doesn't make any economic sense.

You're correct. And it doesn't make economic sense for me to incentivize behavior I don't want.

VoatSearch ago

Someone with cleverer creative skills than me: name and start a dedicated subverse for this

Failure ago

Azure has linux support

Nihilist ago

That's not really the point. Linux is free. Microsoft running in Linux means your paying for something that should be free.

LostandFound ago

Azure is just a pay as you go monstrosity, it's like ordering a rental car to go shopping and for a spin but all they have is a bugatti veyron.

lord_nougat ago

An extra shitty one that breaks down.

LostandFound ago

She runs good just tap out the dents no one will notice https://imgtc.com/4yIFCmQ

lord_nougat ago

Holy shit, what a sight!

9138766? ago

I'm not sure how feasible this suggestion is, but I think I recall Atko saying something in the past about potentially switching to Linux? Or maybe that was him saying it would require massive changes to everything? But didn't Putt complete that massive overhaul?

This might be worth considering if feasible.

Chiefpacman ago

Question for you, as you kind of have been a voat "angel".

Would you not want a receipt? There is a lot of unrest right now over the admin announcement, and I see a lot of people who are hesitant to give money, because what the fuck is happening with the money we give him.

I think it's time we got a receipt. I think you're a good person to be asking for one, I have no right to do so. I have not given nearly as much as you

Tsilent_Tsunami ago

You're talking about a "receipt" to someone talking about a completely different topic... Unless I'm totally out of the loop on some new meme?

Chiefpacman ago

You're out of your element donny.

He knows me/this is an ongoing conversation. Feel free to join v/goats4voat

Its all set up now

Tsilent_Tsunami ago

Ah, I'm just a casual here. It's kind of my "in between" place for reddit and the stormer. Also the only place I'm not currently banned. lol

9141031? ago

Well you get receipts for your donations, but I understand that's not what you're talking about.

Personally I would like a donation bar to highlight how much funding Voat has received to cover the current month's goals that month. It would also be nice to know the operating costs (Putt has told us that in this post, but they are likely to change soon if he cuts back on intensive features), and yes, exactly what elements they go towards.

The main problem is Putt doesn't hardly have the time to do what he's doing now, let alone implement and manage a donation bar. The old one was manual and impossible to keep up-to-date. As for specifics as to what features cost how much, yeah that would be nice, but I don't know how frequently these figures change. I of course would gladly see that information if Putt could provide it, but I don't know how meaningful the numbers would be if provided at this time.

ruck_feddit ago

I cannot find your post concerning a list of users interested in paying a monthly subscription fee. It's probably right in front of my face. Please add me to this list. I look more than I touch around here, but no one else will have me...

9144027? ago

Here's the thread, and I'll gladly add you. Mind stating how much you hope to donate each month?

And we're glad to have you mate. :D

catslovejustice ago

I can do $5 a month. Is there a way to pay without giving out personal info?

9179002? ago

If you don't want to use your own credit card, the options for anonymous donations are either Bitcoin (which might be tough to use if you've never used it before) or buy a pre-paid credit card or two at a convenience store and use it. We've confirmed that this is possible.

I'll add you to the list :) Let me know if there are problems using the pre-paid card option.

ruck_feddit ago

Put me down for a Jackson. I've donated before through a close friend/fellow-voater who wasn't scared to use his visa card.

Keep up the good work.

9144146? ago

Will do, mate!

PuttItOut ago

We would love to port our code to .NET Core and run on Linux, but this is a big job, maybe 3-4 months of code freeze and port. Would only happen if we got funding.

DJT ago

So fuckin post the code and let the aspies port it to Linux. Also get funding from Infowars. We're just their bunch.

thehivemind ago

I got tired of all the talking with no action and created a Subverse for this purpose. Lets crowdsource this shit. Voat is open source so why not. If you have any skills related to linux or webdev, head over to /v/Voat4Linux, share, and contribute.

MagaTron ago

Can you not use something like mono runtime on linux? I tried it a while ago but it looked promising.

mqrmqr ago

Worth it, and necessary to continue the realistic funding of Voat (without a major investor, if there isn't one, this is your next move).

redpilldessert ago

How much would you need approx for that job?

uisge ago

Why not try, in the short term, a crowd funding exercise and post it on voat? Respect btw, I know I couldn't fund that amount of money, its about 3 x what I earn in a month, but crowd funding could attract an angel...or a few archangels?

wuzizname ago

Call for volunteers in the programming and linux subs, lots of people want to contribute and it's good experience to work on a project like that.

There's already people volunteering time as mods, donations come in more forms than just cash.

kevf4 ago

.Net core 2.0 is out now and has almost every library. I've looked over the code and I don't think it would take months, probably a few weeks.

Kael_thas_Sunstrider ago

What I never understood why you would use a windows base to begin with?

PresnatDankusMaximus ago

I'm down to contribute for free with rewriting the website to work on Linux. I will collaborate and contribute as much as I can, it would be very beneficial

Donbuster ago

https://voat.co/v/SavingVoat/1866511

I'm organizing a rewrite effort. Infothread above, and there's a slack team for people who want to join up, invite in thread

d3r ago

It looks like ASP.NET MVC 5 apps and .NET 4.5 are supported by Mono. No port required? http://www.mono-project.com/docs/about-mono/compatibility/

YouAreRetarded ago

Whoa, whoa, whoa... you're using .NET? Well there's your problem right there...

Kidding aside you've done a hell of a job. I wish I had the pockets or the programming knowledge to help. have you thought about scaling it back and making it subscription based? Then offer some type of incentive to subscribe? Just spit balling here. I'll think of something...

geovoat ago

If you are going down anyway then open source the code and ask for help to do the conversion.

Worst case scenario it doenst happen and other voat type places pop up with your code.

Best case your porting gets done for free and you survive.

trentlapinski ago

You might not necessary need to port it, and can simply run it in virtualization using a Linux container / Docker.

Not sure what your core architecture and DB setup looks like, but its doable. The company I'm working with might be able to help.

wesofx ago

I suggest making a sticky linking to the github. I think lots of smart members here might want to contribute. From the looks of the github, most the code for Voat is C#, so if you mention that, you might get lots of C# developers who want to have their name on the project.

bikergang_accountant ago

We could do a "genetic" approch. We all try porting it onto linux and the one that is succesful ends up being the new project. I'm sure the absolute shortest path "god path" isn't that difficult if not dead simple but the issue is knowing exactly what has to be done and dotting all the i(s).

If we all took the nieve approch but slightly differently the easy way to get it done will be discovered. We can also take notes on what worked and what didn't and get a good discovery of what's involved.

Wowbagger ago

I'm a sql server pro and I'm not terrible at .net programming in general. If you can give specific tasks I may be able to help when the time comes. A conversion to Linux could save us a bundle. As for money, I can easily afford $25/month to help keep the lights on. There have to be a decent amount of us who can do that.

9141779? ago

If you do do $25/month I'll add you to a thread I'm writing to document everyone who has pledged monthly donations. It would go a long way. Let me know if you plan to do this.

Wowbagger ago

I'll set it up on Friday. I need to adjust and add the regular payment to my budget so I don't forget where it's going and it resets then. Ping me on Friday and make sure I do it?

9143515? ago

I'll make a note to do so!

Hopefully I remember to read the note :P

Donbuster ago

I could do 25 as well, but can 250 of us? That seems to be pushing it considering our userbase...

9141787? ago

I'm already building a thread of all the monthly donation pledges people have made so far. It's looking good. If you and @Wowbagger both pledge $25/month that would go a long way and help a lot! Let me know if you do so I can add you to the thread.

Donbuster ago

Link please?

9142539? ago

To the user list or the donation page?

If you want to more easily donate each month there is a donate $5 a month for a year option. Just add five of these to your cart before checkout if you want to donate $25/month. If you do this let me know and I'll add you to the user list.

Donbuster ago

Moneys tight at the moment, i'll commit once we get a bit closer, so that I know it will lead to the site's continuation. Can you pm me when you hit something like 20%

9233537? ago

Enough pledges of trickled in that with rounding we are now covering approximately 1/5 of the current operating costs, but Putt and others intend to use our newly gathered funds to start work on reducing these monthly costs. So if you still want to make a pledge, this is your ping -- but you said money is tight, so there is not need to jeopardize your personal economic situation. I just wanted to let you know that we've come a long way towards making Voat self-sustainable.

Donbuster ago

Good on you for remembering. I made the pledge earlier, when we hit about 1/7th, decided we had enough momentum to be worth it.

9233767? ago

Ha! That you did. I just had a memo written in a spreadsheet that when we reached 1/5 I ought to ping you and so here I am, mindlessly doing so without first checking to see if you've already pledged. Thanks again for helping out.

9142605? ago

You mean once we reached 1/5 of the costs up from 1/16 where we're at now? Sure thing I will. And if money is tight don't push yourself. There are a lot of goats here; we should be able to scrounge together what we require.

tribblepuncher ago

Is there anything actually preventing you from going open source with what you have and requesting community assistance with a port?

bahhumbugger ago

Talk to the Russians.

HuginnOgMuninn ago

Reach out to KIM DOTKOM. He's to be TRUSTED, he can help MONETIZE, and EMBIGGEN us.

Donbuster ago

Do we really want to become one of kims projects? I mean, he's the right kind of person to be looking at but look at how most of them have turned out. Sure, they made him rich, but megaupload is, well, megaupload, mega is no longer in his control thanks to hostile takeover...

Sk8rminion ago

MEGAVOAT

Ina_Pickle ago

You have a huge sub of techies who would happily help, and a huge user base who will patiently wait however long is needed.

VoatSearch ago

I'd subscribe to a hardcore coders/IT specialists sub dedicated to solving this. My hunch would be that a port could be done cheaply and quickly just with volunteer goat skills and a bit of smart project management.

Pawn ago

I'll help you code it into Linux.

WhiteRonin ago

What language though?

9139585? ago

He should open source voat's code and let us have a crack at it :)

Donbuster ago

Isn't that repo ancient?

theMETA ago

Same here!

Datawych ago

Post to all the Linux subs. I'm sure you can find a bunch of fuckin' nerds who'd be willing to contribute.

neogag ago

.NET core's performance profile seems very unclear.

I have no idea what architecture you use, but you could consider porting to a lower level framework like https://kore.io/ (pure C, haven't seen benchmarks though) or rocket (uses Rust, bit of a learning curve but its benchmarks outperform everything by an order of magnitude).

redpilldessert ago

What does Reddit use?

poo_22 ago

Reddit is a bunch of Python code using the pylons framework. Last time I checked anyway.

neogag ago

I'm not really a Python guy, but I know it generally performs like shit. Most companies value productivity over perf and just throw money on hardware to compensate.

It's a weird tradeoff when you can have not much worse productivity by using node.js (ES6 is great) and get better performance and async on everything.

Nihilist ago

How much do you think you could save running on Linux ?

squishysquid ago

probably like a k or so on licensing, real benefit would be to unlock them from the azure platform though.

ninjai ago

I work in IT and handle many infrastructures. Microsoft licensing is fucking madness.

wuzizname ago

Why do people pay for it then? What's the appeal?

reddit-is-retarded ago

Only small shops/ in house IT pay the MS tax. 75% of AWS is linux. http://blog.intronis.com/bid/a-peek-inside-amazon-web-services

LostandFound ago

Have done other resource intensive websites usually at least 75%, azure is crippling. Best was about 98% reduction after moving a video 'chat' site we just agreed a fixed cost for next to unlimited bandwidth with another provider only paying extra on cpu rental if and when needed.

Donbuster ago

Hard to say. Without hard bandwidth numbers, you can't just go look at a hosting providers rates and expect to figure out what we need. A considerable amount per moth, sure, maybe even a few thousand, but the work needed to get there is obscene. We should make the switch at some point, but if we want the site to survive such a switch, a 3-4 month nest egg should be built up

tribblepuncher ago

While I'm not Putt, I can say that it'd probably be a lot easier to find a new provider at the very least, so there would be a great deal more competition for Voat's business. While I haven't touched server stuff like that in some time, it's pretty simple to find Linux providers. Plus, considering Microsoft's recent stand on Windows 10 having built-in censorship tools (and their prior stand on having built-in spyware), I wouldn't trust Azure anyway.

something_went_wrong ago

find a new provider

A hosting provider that supports .Net Core or equivalent to allow minimal code rewrite to move to *nix platform. Relatively new branch for .net that doesn't even seem stable or widely used at all yet. Means finding a hosting provider that supports this reliably might be pretty difficult.

tribblepuncher ago

Means finding a hosting provider that supports this reliably might be pretty difficult.

Not if the whole "community rewrite for Linux" thing happens, which would presumably write it in a non-.NET language. And there seems to be a lot of momentum behind it, so if Putt is OK with it, that could well be an option.