Did you guys give this any hought? All of conservative social media is under severe attack right now, and you just did an open call to give random users the power to delete posts? Yeah, tell me how that goes. C'mon guys, I know you are stretched thin over there, but this is a bad idea. Allowing a random third person to have access to delete things is opening up a can of warms. The infighting that is going to happen the minute a shill accidentally gets janitor access is going to be ridiculous. Just put out a cal to mods to check their subs and delete spam. PLEASE.
I don't normally hang around in system subverses, but if you're having a tough time finding a Janitor for any of them and don't mind dropping Rule 5, let me know. I don't mind being a place holder until I die or you find someone better. Currently doing just that for /v/writing. I think I'm doing an okay job; nobody's complained yet.
The same reason anybody wants to be a forum moderator, a cheap sense of authority and control that they are lacking in their real lives.
"Our half-broken website that we develop at a snail's pace and that is being funded by somebody we refused to reveal has a serious spam problem and instead of making an effective reporting system because that would require active administrators, we thought it would just be easier to offload all of the work on to the users. And what luck! It worked perfectly and people are literally clamoring for the chance to be an unpaid Lackey just for a sense of control."
@Atko said: My comment was entirely directed at the fact that a user was banned for reporting spam that is (apparently) inline with what Voat considers spam.
I think you are doing what needs to be done. Evro rides a fine line, and is frankly not the only YT spammer. Many political, news, and whatever videos are similar rips uploaded to a weak channel gaming for views.
Personally, I think @AOU is using SJW styled tactics in order to place their personal view over what the community finds acceptable. There are far better ways to make change. And they would work more quickly.
Why do you feel justified addressing this issue through your methods?
These are not my methods, but the simple rules of voat.
I'm reporting spam and to see the same spammers reaching the front page everyday with the help of that biased mod is not right. Especially when he's a mod of default subs. The spam exposure is totally different.
I have been watching this, also. At the time, the community decided that @Evrocot was ok, because of the sub's low submission content. Now the argument is being made that the sub would be better off empty/low in content rather than support what are clearly spammy links. I see merit in both views.
Is it possible to hear from @Evrocot? The single comment ever made from that account was clearly legitimate. Perhaps (if we haven't!) we should give our spammy power contributor a chance to respond.
Evrocot has been pinged multiple times for years now and never responded. If he does now I'll be surprised and suspicious. I also have never seen a thread where the community accepted him and have only seen community votes as the reasoning which are easy to manipulate.
In @Evrocot's history, I only see a single comment from 11 months ago.
To me, it seems the writing's on the wall that Evro must be banned, but I think there is potential for a larger, far less manageable spam problem if that is to happen.
I'll add that I still watch some of the vids! It's at least half-decently curated content. And that seemed to be the deciding factor last time this blew up.
If you see my reply to @needlestack I outline why I think mods almost want to let this content go, basically because it is relevant content that fills up their sub. Nothing worse than seeing a sub you mod have barely any posts. So again I think the admins need to be crystal clear if they consider this spam or not. If they say its up to the community/mods of each default then its open to manipulation.
I think it has been the policy of the admins to defer to the community. When things are egregiously deleted, the admins step in. And I think that's the way for us to go. Downvote and move on.
From @Atko: My comment was entirely directed at the fact that a user was banned for reporting spam that is (apparently) inline with what Voat considers spam.
That's why 2 mods resigned.
You are a 2 faced biased mod who protects a group of spammers and helps them getting revenues from a default sub.
My regular account is locked out for 'security reasons'. I've had to come on here with a different browser than Chrome. Chrome just loads jibberish no matter what. With Firefox this works fine, but my account is locked out. Sup?
Also one more note for those reporting spam consider that some forms of spam have domains that change every time they are posted. Livestream spammers use this method a lot, so its of little use reporting something like livestream-mayweather-pacquiao.com to be banned sitewide because it will never be used again..
Only "mark as read" those items you have handled as a spam issue leaving the remaining mail for the moderators to address.
One thing to note is is if another moderator has read that report already(or any other message) then it will disappear off the unread list in your summary. So its important for all mods and janitors to check each subs inbox and sent regularly. Also there are no pings sent for smail/modmail messages now.
There's the whole thing with you recruiting a bunch of trolls to wreck askvoat that time before you deleted your account. What makes it different if you get deletion powers on a default sub this time?
I made askvoat a much better place through my actions. No more deletions or cancer mods in there. You can thank me later when that fact sinks in to your narrow minded brain.
There's no need to get angry and result to insults, it was a fair question and not personal. If you made it better it certainly wasn't your intention in the first place by inviting a bunch of trolls in as a joke. If it turned out better because of that, you shouldn't take credit for it.
I'm sorry but being a mod for soapbox give me little faith in you, there has been to much crap in your sub with mass banning for me to trust any of the mods from there. To my knowledge you have not been one of the ones directly involved in it but are falling into guilt by association for me.
I'm sorry that you don't realise that I am one of the most rabid anti censorship users on this site (apart from pedos), despite my modding of a shitposting sub.
I am not active enough to be a janitor, but I am willing to delete any spam I encounter on /new/ but I know I will not be granted these permissions, and that is fine, report spam it is.
Hey @puttitout, are any of the bugs possibly the reason I can't log into my regular account today? I haven't changed my PW or anything, but it's telling me that my PW is wrong. =/
I'm 100% certain my PW hasn't changed. I don't see any weird posts/comments or missing posts/comments suggesting my account's been compromised. I logged in fine just yesterday. =(
If I PM you the username, I don't supposed you could find out what the heck is going on?
How often are spammers banned from reports in /v/ReportSpammers? I've seen spammers I reported 5 - 6 months ago still having a ball on voat. Will there be a process set up where spammers are banned sooner?
Edit: Evrocot has been reported 3 times (this post from 5 months ago) in /v/ReportSpammers and is still here.
Isn't it easier to delete the spam from a known spammer than banning a spammer only to have them create a new alt that you likely won't recognize? I know little to definitely not enough about system sub moderation in regards to spam.
Definitely, and we call this domain or hostsite banning; if we can kill the domain then no amount of username changes will make one whit of difference. There have probably been close to 300 domain bans added in the last six weeks alone, but still more work to do yet to get caught up.
Is that what janitors do in the system subs? They can ban hostsites? I thought sys sub mods could only ban usernames. Again, I don't know much about system sub moderation other than what I read around here.
The Janitors will simply be deleting the spam that comes in, and on rare occasion they can ban users, but not domains. Even banning users is almost pointless (depending on the sub and the domain).
Where the Domain Banning comes in is when a Janitor, or any user for that matter, makes a report at v/ReportSpammers on a spammy site.
Reporting the domains to get added to site-wide bans is the magic bullet that dramatically slows the spam.
As far as I'm aware the mods at v/videos said they'll have a scheduled sticky in a month where people will be able to discuss the evrocot issue(and anything else. @THC is this still the case?
Evrocot is allowed to exist because he consistently gets upvoated by the community and has so for longer than most have been on voat and they decided s/he was grandfathered in. https://voat.co/v/videos/1402055/6779851
So the community (most of posters in /v/videos are actually spammers) is ok with a spammer posting re-hosted links to his Yt channel for revenues. Since when the community gets to decide what is spam and what is not by superseding voat's rules regarding spam?
This has been settle by admins already, and that's why 2 mods resigned. Only THC remains with the only goal of keeping spammers in their /v/videos safe space.
To be fair nothing really is clear as far as self-submitters are concerned. If the admins want moderators to start enforcing that line in the FAQ about self submitting they need to be clear that's what they want. Until then all we have is to ask the users which, as you say, can be manipulated by those same users commenting or alts and votes are worse. Evrocot may have been using an alt to initially upvote those videos of his.
I did see @THC post this the other day https://voat.co/v/videos/1413288/6831458 and you call him out on it. As a moderator or Janitor you HAVE to give that person the benefit of the doubt on their first few posts and give them a chance to reply or comply. Unless maybe you've seen other posters spamming that same channel. Otherwise you are deleting on a hunch which is just as bad. Now if @THC is giving warnings to some youtubers and not to Evrocot based on votes then that is also wrong because as I said that can be manipulated.
With the massive increase of spam from spambots happening in voat, I think it's more time saving to, at least, remove submissions from obvious spam (naming and titling patterns) than wasting time addressing them one by one.
When a message is deleted, the accounts are notified with a PM.
If they are spambots their spammers will rarely reply. If they are real accounts, they will reply and let mods know about it.
You are most likely right that they were a spammer but I think erring on the safe side is far better than slamming the banhammer down and possibly scaring off a few innocents. I get the whole get tough on spam thing but seeing a couple of spam posts let go is a consequence of erring on the side of caution. I don't think time is a problem, if Mods are running out of time they need more janitors. This should never be a sledgehammer type deal. If you want to convince people about naming and titling patterns being a reason to ban without warning then you need to show some evidence of it, applicable to youtube videos. I've seen patterns in livestream spammers so id be happy to see some justifications for the youtubers.
All the more reason why @PuttItOut and @Atko need to be clear on the self-submitters issue. At v/sports we allow self-submitters based on (very little admittedly) feedback but I'd be more than happy to enforce it there if they wanted that. I do already on another sub I mod.
That's why we need more mods in system subs. Spam is spam. If mods can't do their one janitorial function, they need to be dismissed. I was hoping Putt or a bot would deal with spammers automatically via /v/ReportSpammers. It's enough of that youtube spammer already.
As people have said its not the number of mods which is the issue it's the content policy. Moderators generally want to see their subs succeed so they are far more likely to let relevant content go rather than delete it. Then there is the whole aversion to deleting content that Voat has. On the other side you have the people who , perhaps rightly, see this as supporting the admins statement in the FAQ, which from memory is lifted straight from the old Reddit FAQ. If the admins want that line enforced they need to be clear thats what they want.
That's a really good point. No one wants to be in the position of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Most mods will do their best to enforce the community's wishes, but some decisions are going to have unhappy users with either decision.
What's worse is that there isn't a cut and dry definition of spam, so each reader, each community, and each moderator will consider different posts to be spam. Even a mod that's doing their best to represent their community will come across as too hard or too soft depending on who is asking.
Wow this is really well thought out. Thanks not halfing it. I like that you outlined clear cut rules for janitors.
When a janitor gets added, can you make sure that you let then know about the site spam policy found on faq page (basically is about not submitting only one site)? I think uniformity is important that way janitors can be moved around subs with ease.
Not sure if this is okay or not but I highly recommend @nadrewod as a janitor. He helped out with the mh101 infestation and has continued to help when asked.
Doesn't matter to me. I just wanted to make sure you were considered if needed.
I'd like to have you in /v/news since I know you so well and you have basically been doing the spam thing for over a year but i would have to talk to the others first.
Janitors will make an effort to report spammed domains, subverses, and users to /v/ReportSpammers
This is the part that makes me less willing to be a janitor. This is something that should be automated. I've got no problem reporting spammers (I have several posts/comments in that sub, and even got Erol's website christlike,x10host,com shut down for spamming us), but with the degree of spam we get, and with spammers using new accounts and domains all the time, having to manually post it is not at all efficient.
What about an automated system wherein, if x% of the active janitors of system subs all report a domain/user, it automatically gets placed before the (nonjanitorial) moderators of the three system subs with the most links from that domain, or posts from that user, to determine if the domain/account is at all being used in a constructive manner. If no mod from any of those vetos it, the user is banned or the domain added to the global banlist. These system sub mod decisions are publicly logged, as are janitorial decisions.
You might be looking at that, and wondering why I made that system so complicated. If we have an automated system where site users can add domains to the GLOBAL banlist, a small group of accounts (the janitors) therefore have a LOT of power. If we state that we can generally trust the janitors as an institution, with the knowledge that anyone abusing their responsibility as janitor will be removed, that's good, we can let them collectively decide a domain or user's fate; but we need a balance, a sanity check, if you will. System subs are carefully monitored by the Voat userbase, and a good number have top notch moderators (by no means all, for instance, TIL is abandoned) like ChillyHellion. This separation of power will ensure that, even if the janitors are overrun, prominent users will get a chance to put their word in.
If spammers and scammers manage to break that, then the entire site needs to be restructured.
That goes way beyond what I think is needed for now. Also, most spam domains/users focus on a specific subverse. They don't go spamming willy-nilly across the whole site. (they tend to get in 3 posts or so before the downvote restrictions get 'em)
All that needs automating at the moment IMO, is posting to reportspammers. (or some other method of automatic data collection, logging, and for puttitout's convenience, sorting by domain/account/time of day/whatever else he wants.)
EDIT: All a janitor SHOULD have to do is look at reports of spam, or look at spam he sees on his own in the wild, and decide whether to hit the delete button. Optionally add a reason why it's spam. Everything else as far as logging, reporting, posting to reportspammers, etc. should occur automagically. This is functionality that could possibly be added to AVE instead of the core site if need be.
Not optional - EVERY post in any subverse should have a reason for its deletion (unless it is one of those goofy playtime subs) - that makes for good communication.
I would love to see this as an automated feature too; in the meantime, I created some quicky click button short-cuts for making posts to report spammers, https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/1404656
Alternatively, you can use this: javascript:location.href='https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/submit?linkpost=true&url='+encodeURIComponent(location.href);
It will auto fill the info (partially, anyway) if you are on a spammers profile page.
I happen to have that last one in my bookmarks so it does prefill a bit with the title easy enough to fill-in. You might pull &title= out since we need this in a different format for the post than what actually gets generated.
You are always spot on with the pro-tips, AA, thank you!!
I think the main worry for me is that right now mods are responsible for any and all moderating action taken on a subverse. If someone makes a mistake or a poor judgement call, that's on us 100%. Giving janitors the ability to do anything that mods can do makes me uneasy because if that power is abused it's going to come back to the modteam first and the janitors second.
Do moderators have the ability to undo any changes janitors make just in case the system is abused?
Mainly I want to say I appreciate you and Atko doing what you can to lighten the load on mods and also distribute spam-removal ability across a greater area, I just want to make sure communities, modteams, and janitors all have safeguards in place to make sure none can do too much harm to the others without some kind of solid accountability and repair system.
I appreciate it, and I agree that just having open mod logs goes a long way in enforcing accountability. My main concern is that the actions of any one moderator/janitor can affect the reputation of an entire subverse overnight, but I also believe that people will be more understanding with such a new system while the fine tuning is worked out. Even if a janitor goes completely rogue, I think most people would be able to separate that janitor's actions from the rest of the community in their mind. At least that's my hope.
One other point, will the definition of spam be up to the community, or defined site-wide? Different communities will allow different levels of "spam" if it's on-topic and not too frequent. /v/gaming for example will allow nearly anything gaming-related as long as people posting self-promotional content are also participating in the community through comments and/or non-promotional posts.
One other point, will the definition of spam be up to the community, or defined site-wide?
That's a very important point. I help out with /v/badmovies and most of our content (links to streams of/reviews/news about bad movies) would be considered spam if in another subverse.
Just want to mention to you @recher@kadynce@Pikachuintheshower that you do a great job in /v/gamming (my favorite sub on the site for how things are handled by the mods) and I'm glad to hear you are joining the discussion to be sure there isn't any abuse going on that you can't control.
I really appreciate it :) thanks, Thrus. I recognize that I'm just a caretaker for the community's sub on Atko's site, so I try to be very careful about not putting my foot down on something I don't ultimately own.
I like that PuttItOut and Atko are taking an earnest look at ways to improve the site, and if it's done correctly then I think that distributing specific site responsibilities among more people can be a good thing. The tricky bit is in making safeguards to match. Mainly I want to make sure that a Janitor's abilities don't reach beyond their responsibility.
And I guess having a modlog that tracks changes to individuals is a good way to audit that, I just also know that one mod's actions can impact the reputation of an entire subverse overnight as well.
If you don't like it here and prefer a site where the admins delete everything that might hurt your fee-fees, there are plenty of other sites. Try Reddit for a start.
Or just block v/politics and v/news, and Trump spam will be reduced by at least 50%.
I can't say that I find it all as there are other spam-ninjas, though I do keep multiple tabs open for the subs that tend to get spammy. Then, once I've done the research, I have also created a little jscript that allows me to report the spam to v/ReportSpammers very very quickly. I used this little jscript as well to create some shortcuts for anyone else that wants to report spam over at the sub too.
Yes. Spammers have been able to get around a lot of our barriers and we can't do much without very expensive (resource wise) code, so this is the next best option.
Jesus Christ someone piss in your Cheerios this morning? If you don't like what people post on some stuff block the person and downgoat and write a comment on it why it's spam and report it. If that doesn't work for you you know that you don't have to look at this website right
I second this, I didn't vote for him but I am also not surprised or angry that he won. I am also tired of seeing all the BS about him so do you know what I do?
It's quite possibly the most difficult part of my day and I don't know how I find the strength to do it
SaneGoatiSwear ago
remember this, @puttitout @first_post_king has been doign a good job? that user deleted account. sane goat's still here.
you are leaving a valuable resource untapped.
why?
because a vocal minority is butt hurt by this internet stranger's speech?
this isn't reddit, putt.
hashtaggery ago
Lets do t
sweetholymosiah ago
I would assist in removing spam.
Sallie ago
How do you get enough points to vote up?
Crackmacs ago
Fucking spammers. They're the worst.
Cynabuns ago
Your reports have been really helpful but it's not up to me - feel free to apply for a spot at any of the System subs or just keep on reporting :)
Cynabuns ago
Thanks dude!
TAThatBoomerang ago
This is some Deus Vult stuff right here. Ave Maria!
Laurentius_the_pyro ago
PURGE THE
SARACENSSPAMMERS FROM THE HOLY LAND!DEUS VULT!
Vvswiftvv17 ago
Did you guys give this any hought? All of conservative social media is under severe attack right now, and you just did an open call to give random users the power to delete posts? Yeah, tell me how that goes. C'mon guys, I know you are stretched thin over there, but this is a bad idea. Allowing a random third person to have access to delete things is opening up a can of warms. The infighting that is going to happen the minute a shill accidentally gets janitor access is going to be ridiculous. Just put out a cal to mods to check their subs and delete spam. PLEASE.
6845996? ago
I don't normally hang around in system subverses, but if you're having a tough time finding a Janitor for any of them and don't mind dropping Rule 5, let me know. I don't mind being a place holder until I die or you find someone better. Currently doing just that for /v/writing. I think I'm doing an okay job; nobody's complained yet.
MLKKK ago
I want to help out but I don't want to be called a fucking janitor. Thanks but no thanks.
dabork ago
The same reason anybody wants to be a forum moderator, a cheap sense of authority and control that they are lacking in their real lives.
"Our half-broken website that we develop at a snail's pace and that is being funded by somebody we refused to reveal has a serious spam problem and instead of making an effective reporting system because that would require active administrators, we thought it would just be easier to offload all of the work on to the users. And what luck! It worked perfectly and people are literally clamoring for the chance to be an unpaid Lackey just for a sense of control."
Adminstrater ago
What's the difference between a Janitor and a Custodian?
6845902? ago
And supported banning of that AlphaWookie guy from v/gaming
Macdaddy5000 ago
You kept telling us how Trump was going to lose and you're wrong again now.
8_billion_eaters ago
a call to arms that never came; oh call me back. call me back..... - al stewart, Old Admirals....1973
tentonaraft ago
To help with the spam problem. I'm volunteering.
tentonaraft ago
I tried applying for /v/politics, but it wouldn't let me and gave me a message that it had been submitted recently.
AOU ago
Oh, I'm not a spammer anymore, now I'm a troll?
As for you, nothing has changed, you're still a biased mod.
AOU ago
You removed it because I called you out here. lol
If this the best of your ability, you clearly need to rethink your position.
AOU ago
You know when you insult people, you're so adorable.
FTFY
AOU ago
Why does it matter? Putt or Atko are the only two admins and they both share the same views.
You're clearly the biased mod here.
Putt stepped up because you banned me for reporting spam, while making your own arbitrary rules calling me a spammer.
Because how badly you mods of /v/videos/ handled the situation, 2 other mods resigned after disagreeing with Putt.
But why do you care? You're alone ruling over your spammers team.
You even said:
6842802? ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdC_Cu9X4wc
Disappointed ago
I think this is as good a time as any for me to go mow my lawn, lol.
AOU ago
heygeorge ago
I think you are doing what needs to be done. Evro rides a fine line, and is frankly not the only YT spammer. Many political, news, and whatever videos are similar rips uploaded to a weak channel gaming for views.
Personally, I think @AOU is using SJW styled tactics in order to place their personal view over what the community finds acceptable. There are far better ways to make change. And they would work more quickly.
AOU ago
Personal view? Not really. Just voat's default rules regarding spam.
heygeorge ago
That's all well and good. Perhaps Evrocot is a person? Obviously that is said with a grain of salt.
Why do you feel justified addressing this issue through your methods?
AOU ago
These are not my methods, but the simple rules of voat.
I'm reporting spam and to see the same spammers reaching the front page everyday with the help of that biased mod is not right. Especially when he's a mod of default subs. The spam exposure is totally different.
heygeorge ago
Did you apply to be a janitor?
AOU ago
Yes, I did. But obviously, THC will never accept an unbiased janitor.
heygeorge ago
I don't think this latest request for J's is entirely up to moderators.
Also, you still are not addressing why you think your methods are valid & justified.
AOU ago
I did, check my comment history.
heygeorge ago
Ok, so you're unapproachable and 100% correct.
AOU ago
Don't be too hard on me, I'm on mobile now.
AOU ago
I don't need to prove anything about your bias, you just did it yourself.
heygeorge ago
I have been watching this, also. At the time, the community decided that @Evrocot was ok, because of the sub's low submission content. Now the argument is being made that the sub would be better off empty/low in content rather than support what are clearly spammy links. I see merit in both views.
Is it possible to hear from @Evrocot? The single comment ever made from that account was clearly legitimate. Perhaps (if we haven't!) we should give our spammy power contributor a chance to respond.
@NeedleStack
Disappointed ago
Evrocot has been pinged multiple times for years now and never responded. If he does now I'll be surprised and suspicious. I also have never seen a thread where the community accepted him and have only seen community votes as the reasoning which are easy to manipulate.
heygeorge ago
In @Evrocot's history, I only see a single comment from 11 months ago.
To me, it seems the writing's on the wall that Evro must be banned, but I think there is potential for a larger, far less manageable spam problem if that is to happen.
I'll add that I still watch some of the vids! It's at least half-decently curated content. And that seemed to be the deciding factor last time this blew up.
Disappointed ago
If you see my reply to @needlestack I outline why I think mods almost want to let this content go, basically because it is relevant content that fills up their sub. Nothing worse than seeing a sub you mod have barely any posts. So again I think the admins need to be crystal clear if they consider this spam or not. If they say its up to the community/mods of each default then its open to manipulation.
heygeorge ago
I think it has been the policy of the admins to defer to the community. When things are egregiously deleted, the admins step in. And I think that's the way for us to go. Downvote and move on.
Disappointed ago
Now that flairs appear with css off that could also be an option.
AOU ago
That's why 2 mods resigned.
You are a 2 faced biased mod who protects a group of spammers and helps them getting revenues from a default sub.
dierebelscum ago
Hello @Atko and @PuttitOut
My regular account is locked out for 'security reasons'. I've had to come on here with a different browser than Chrome. Chrome just loads jibberish no matter what. With Firefox this works fine, but my account is locked out. Sup?
Anchy ago
Go away spam ^_^
fagnig ago
Rule 2 is just perfect, fuckin a putt
Disappointed ago
Also one more note for those reporting spam consider that some forms of spam have domains that change every time they are posted. Livestream spammers use this method a lot, so its of little use reporting something like
livestream-mayweather-pacquiao.comto be banned sitewide because it will never be used again..Cynabuns ago
This is very true; same with spammer user names--these are quickly abandoned.
rpuccifels ago
Exactly like reddit.
Disappointed ago
One thing to note is is if another moderator has read that report already(or any other message) then it will disappear off the unread list in your summary. So its important for all mods and janitors to check each subs inbox and sent regularly. Also there are no pings sent for smail/modmail messages now.
roznak ago
Don't delete SPAM, move it to a hidden folder so you can undelete if once of the janitors turns out to be Amalek.
PuttItOut ago
This made me laugh.
rnh_lurkin ago
I would be happy to help but since I am a lurker I don't have enough CCP...
Mick ago
I would like to help but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pass Rule 5 for a default sub (the submission part anyway)
Sign me up to a few subs if you feel like it, you know I live in all/new.
Great to hear about the bottleneck, good luck with it :)
6845930? ago
There's the whole thing with you recruiting a bunch of trolls to wreck askvoat that time before you deleted your account. What makes it different if you get deletion powers on a default sub this time?
Mick ago
I made askvoat a much better place through my actions. No more deletions or cancer mods in there. You can thank me later when that fact sinks in to your narrow minded brain.
6851307? ago
There's no need to get angry and result to insults, it was a fair question and not personal. If you made it better it certainly wasn't your intention in the first place by inviting a bunch of trolls in as a joke. If it turned out better because of that, you shouldn't take credit for it.
Mick ago
I don't care what you or any user on voat thinks about anything. I'm just here to shit things up.
6854812? ago
Then why say you want to do a serious job?
Mick ago
Because I know there is no way PuttitOut will let me - he has told me that a million times. I'm just here to troll.
6860990? ago
Ok that's fair.
thrus ago
I'm sorry but being a mod for soapbox give me little faith in you, there has been to much crap in your sub with mass banning for me to trust any of the mods from there. To my knowledge you have not been one of the ones directly involved in it but are falling into guilt by association for me.
Mick ago
I'm sorry that you don't realise that I am one of the most rabid anti censorship users on this site (apart from pedos), despite my modding of a shitposting sub.
Don't judge a book by its cover.
Lube-N-Blisters ago
When do we get to help with coding?
Cynabuns ago
Anytime you'd like: https://github.com/voat
6double5321 ago
@kevdude Should this be stickied in /v/sports?
Disappointed ago
I put one up.
6double5321 ago
Thank you. I'm on mobile atm.
EarlPoncho ago
or just downvoat and move on
DrBunsen ago
I am not active enough to be a janitor, but I am willing to delete any spam I encounter on /new/ but I know I will not be granted these permissions, and that is fine, report spam it is.
Alteralf ago
Hey @puttitout, are any of the bugs possibly the reason I can't log into my regular account today? I haven't changed my PW or anything, but it's telling me that my PW is wrong. =/
PuttItOut ago
Not that I know.
Alteralf ago
Well dang...
I'm 100% certain my PW hasn't changed. I don't see any weird posts/comments or missing posts/comments suggesting my account's been compromised. I logged in fine just yesterday. =(
If I PM you the username, I don't supposed you could find out what the heck is going on?
PuttItOut ago
PM me the user name and I'll see if the account is locked.
We are unable to see or read passwords, so we can't help in that area unfortunately.
Alteralf ago
Edit
Working now! Thanks dude!
pembo210 ago
So does a Janitor spot still count towards the 10 sub limit, since we need so many now?
heygeorge ago
From my reading, yes it does.
AOU ago
@PuttItOut What about mods who willingly protect blatant spammers and ignore reports?
Kadynce ago
Rule #2 and #3 sounds like mods decision rules.
AOU ago
@NeedleStack said it best:
https://voat.co/v/announcements/1415644/6840650
NeedleStack ago
How often are spammers banned from reports in /v/ReportSpammers? I've seen spammers I reported 5 - 6 months ago still having a ball on voat. Will there be a process set up where spammers are banned sooner?
Edit: Evrocot has been reported 3 times (this post from 5 months ago) in /v/ReportSpammers and is still here.
Faustian ago
Isn't it easier to delete the spam from a known spammer than banning a spammer only to have them create a new alt that you likely won't recognize? I know little to definitely not enough about system sub moderation in regards to spam.
Cynabuns ago
Definitely, and we call this domain or hostsite banning; if we can kill the domain then no amount of username changes will make one whit of difference. There have probably been close to 300 domain bans added in the last six weeks alone, but still more work to do yet to get caught up.
Faustian ago
Is that what janitors do in the system subs? They can ban hostsites? I thought sys sub mods could only ban usernames. Again, I don't know much about system sub moderation other than what I read around here.
Cynabuns ago
The Janitors will simply be deleting the spam that comes in, and on rare occasion they can ban users, but not domains. Even banning users is almost pointless (depending on the sub and the domain).
Where the Domain Banning comes in is when a Janitor, or any user for that matter, makes a report at v/ReportSpammers on a spammy site.
Reporting the domains to get added to site-wide bans is the magic bullet that dramatically slows the spam.
Faustian ago
You're right. I did know that v/reportspammers was to indicate to admins what ad-spam sites need to be banned. I just drew a blank here. My bad.
Cynabuns ago
No worries ;)
AOU ago
Two mods at /v/videos have recently resigned over spammers I called out.
The remaining mod (THC) is ignoring my reports and made it clear he'll not ban him.
Disappointed ago
As far as I'm aware the mods at v/videos said they'll have a scheduled sticky in a month where people will be able to discuss the evrocot issue(and anything else. @THC is this still the case?
AOU ago
THC made it clear he was not gonna ban Evrocot.
So the community (most of posters in /v/videos are actually spammers) is ok with a spammer posting re-hosted links to his Yt channel for revenues. Since when the community gets to decide what is spam and what is not by superseding voat's rules regarding spam?
This has been settle by admins already, and that's why 2 mods resigned. Only THC remains with the only goal of keeping spammers in their /v/videos safe space.
Look at the modlog: https://voat.co/v/videos/modlog/banned
Over 30 spam posts have been reported since yesterday. Nothing is done. He simply ignores reports.
Disappointed ago
To be fair nothing really is clear as far as self-submitters are concerned. If the admins want moderators to start enforcing that line in the FAQ about self submitting they need to be clear that's what they want. Until then all we have is to ask the users which, as you say, can be manipulated by those same users commenting or alts and votes are worse. Evrocot may have been using an alt to initially upvote those videos of his.
I did see @THC post this the other day https://voat.co/v/videos/1413288/6831458 and you call him out on it. As a moderator or Janitor you HAVE to give that person the benefit of the doubt on their first few posts and give them a chance to reply or comply. Unless maybe you've seen other posters spamming that same channel. Otherwise you are deleting on a hunch which is just as bad. Now if @THC is giving warnings to some youtubers and not to Evrocot based on votes then that is also wrong because as I said that can be manipulated.
AOU ago
That account's reason to join voat was clearly about posting links to their Yt channel for revenues.
https://voat.co/user/theneckbeard123/submissions
They even posted hours before THC warned them.
With the massive increase of spam from spambots happening in voat, I think it's more time saving to, at least, remove submissions from obvious spam (naming and titling patterns) than wasting time addressing them one by one.
When a message is deleted, the accounts are notified with a PM.
If they are spambots their spammers will rarely reply. If they are real accounts, they will reply and let mods know about it.
Disappointed ago
You are most likely right that they were a spammer but I think erring on the safe side is far better than slamming the banhammer down and possibly scaring off a few innocents. I get the whole get tough on spam thing but seeing a couple of spam posts let go is a consequence of erring on the side of caution. I don't think time is a problem, if Mods are running out of time they need more janitors. This should never be a sledgehammer type deal. If you want to convince people about naming and titling patterns being a reason to ban without warning then you need to show some evidence of it, applicable to youtube videos. I've seen patterns in livestream spammers so id be happy to see some justifications for the youtubers.
AOU ago
And it's gone.
https://voat.co/v/videos/1413288
Disappointed ago
Well perhaps @THC was waiting for a response and decided that 2 days was long enough.
AOU ago
He just wanted to let others see he's caring, while he clearly doesn't.
AOU ago
Agreed, but what THC does is not even close to that. He only started doing it recently after I started to call him out.
Meanwhile, the /v/videos/new queue is still filled with blatant spam.
Disappointed ago
All the more reason why @PuttItOut and @Atko need to be clear on the self-submitters issue. At v/sports we allow self-submitters based on (very little admittedly) feedback but I'd be more than happy to enforce it there if they wanted that. I do already on another sub I mod.
NeedleStack ago
That's why we need more mods in system subs. Spam is spam. If mods can't do their one janitorial function, they need to be dismissed. I was hoping Putt or a bot would deal with spammers automatically via /v/ReportSpammers. It's enough of that youtube spammer already.
Disappointed ago
As people have said its not the number of mods which is the issue it's the content policy. Moderators generally want to see their subs succeed so they are far more likely to let relevant content go rather than delete it. Then there is the whole aversion to deleting content that Voat has. On the other side you have the people who , perhaps rightly, see this as supporting the admins statement in the FAQ, which from memory is lifted straight from the old Reddit FAQ. If the admins want that line enforced they need to be clear thats what they want.
Edit: fixed some bad spelling mistakes
ChillyHellion ago
That's a really good point. No one wants to be in the position of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Most mods will do their best to enforce the community's wishes, but some decisions are going to have unhappy users with either decision.
What's worse is that there isn't a cut and dry definition of spam, so each reader, each community, and each moderator will consider different posts to be spam. Even a mod that's doing their best to represent their community will come across as too hard or too soft depending on who is asking.
Kadynce ago
Please be aware that there was plenty discussed here concerning this issue that AOU is talking about.
Sometimes mods dont agree something is spam.
Edit: also, i think a bot would be easily abused in RS. It would need oversight constantly.
NeedleStack ago
Yes, I saw that thread days ago.
Atko and PuttItOut made it very clear what constitutes spam on voat.
We as mods are tasked with following their rules and guidelines and clean up spam because they don't have the capacity to do so.
It is not up to us to come up with our own interpretations of who is a spammer or not.
pembo210 ago
It looks like he's running a batch of domains every week for a little while now.
edit: readable screenshot - https://i.sli.mg/mOxe9R.png
No activity on banning users yet.
Typo ago
Wow this is really well thought out. Thanks not halfing it. I like that you outlined clear cut rules for janitors.
When a janitor gets added, can you make sure that you let then know about the site spam policy found on faq page (basically is about not submitting only one site)? I think uniformity is important that way janitors can be moved around subs with ease.
Not sure if this is okay or not but I highly recommend @nadrewod as a janitor. He helped out with the mh101 infestation and has continued to help when asked.
6840480? ago
Where do you want me to be a Voat janitor? Most of the really bad subverses for spam seem to already have janitors in place.
Disappointed ago
v/technology is lacking badly. Maybe have a look at v/science and v/books.
Typo ago
Doesn't matter to me. I just wanted to make sure you were considered if needed.
I'd like to have you in /v/news since I know you so well and you have basically been doing the spam thing for over a year but i would have to talk to the others first.
Mick ago
That's the price we pay for free speech really.
Owlchemy ago
Throwin' my hat in the ring for v/music. I used to post there more often than now, but would gladly watch it.
Fambida ago
This is the part that makes me less willing to be a janitor. This is something that should be automated. I've got no problem reporting spammers (I have several posts/comments in that sub, and even got Erol's website christlike,x10host,com shut down for spamming us), but with the degree of spam we get, and with spammers using new accounts and domains all the time, having to manually post it is not at all efficient.
Donbuster ago
What about an automated system wherein, if x% of the active janitors of system subs all report a domain/user, it automatically gets placed before the (nonjanitorial) moderators of the three system subs with the most links from that domain, or posts from that user, to determine if the domain/account is at all being used in a constructive manner. If no mod from any of those vetos it, the user is banned or the domain added to the global banlist. These system sub mod decisions are publicly logged, as are janitorial decisions.
You might be looking at that, and wondering why I made that system so complicated. If we have an automated system where site users can add domains to the GLOBAL banlist, a small group of accounts (the janitors) therefore have a LOT of power. If we state that we can generally trust the janitors as an institution, with the knowledge that anyone abusing their responsibility as janitor will be removed, that's good, we can let them collectively decide a domain or user's fate; but we need a balance, a sanity check, if you will. System subs are carefully monitored by the Voat userbase, and a good number have top notch moderators (by no means all, for instance, TIL is abandoned) like ChillyHellion. This separation of power will ensure that, even if the janitors are overrun, prominent users will get a chance to put their word in.
If spammers and scammers manage to break that, then the entire site needs to be restructured.
Fambida ago
That goes way beyond what I think is needed for now. Also, most spam domains/users focus on a specific subverse. They don't go spamming willy-nilly across the whole site. (they tend to get in 3 posts or so before the downvote restrictions get 'em)
All that needs automating at the moment IMO, is posting to reportspammers. (or some other method of automatic data collection, logging, and for puttitout's convenience, sorting by domain/account/time of day/whatever else he wants.)
EDIT: All a janitor SHOULD have to do is look at reports of spam, or look at spam he sees on his own in the wild, and decide whether to hit the delete button. Optionally add a reason why it's spam. Everything else as far as logging, reporting, posting to reportspammers, etc. should occur automagically. This is functionality that could possibly be added to AVE instead of the core site if need be.
Cynabuns ago
Not optional - EVERY post in any subverse should have a reason for its deletion (unless it is one of those goofy playtime subs) - that makes for good communication.
Cynabuns ago
I would love to see this as an automated feature too; in the meantime, I created some quicky click button short-cuts for making posts to report spammers, https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/1404656
AmyAcker ago
Turning these into bookmarklets would make this faster.
Domain: javascript:location.href='https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/submit?linkpost=true&title=Domain:ENTER_DOMAIN_NAME_HERE(Enter_Spam_Type_Here)&url=https://voat.co/domainsENTER_DOMAIN_HERE.COM_ORG_ETC';
Subverse: javascript:location.href='https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/submit?linkpost=true&title=Sub:ENTER_SUBVERSE_NAME_HERE(Enter_Spam_Type_Here)&url=https//voat.co/ENTER_SUBVERSE_NAME_HERE';
User: javascript:location.href='https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/submit?linkpost=true&title=User:ENTER_USERNAME_HERE(Enter_Spam_Type_Here)&url=https//voat.co/ENTER_USERNAME_HERE';
Alternatively, you can use this: javascript:location.href='https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/submit?linkpost=true&url='+encodeURIComponent(location.href);
It will auto fill the info (partially, anyway) if you are on a spammers profile page.
Cynabuns ago
I happen to have that last one in my bookmarks so it does prefill a bit with the title easy enough to fill-in. You might pull
&title=out since we need this in a different format for the post than what actually gets generated.You are always spot on with the pro-tips, AA, thank you!!
Fambida ago
That IS better than nothing
Cynabuns ago
Even if you are not a janitor, if you see spam--report it please
Kadynce ago
@Puttitout are current mods going to be part of the janitor application process?
@reacher, @chillyhellion, @pikachuintheshower
PuttItOut ago
We are not planning on making any changes to current moderators at these subverses.
Kadynce ago
Sorry, I meant to say, do we get to help choose the janitors placed in those roles?
I do appreciate rule #3!
PuttItOut ago
This isn't something we considered but I don't think it would hurt. We are not trying to uproot anyone, just trying to bring in some support.
If you have Janitors in mind, please have them request a position.
ChillyHellion ago
I think the main worry for me is that right now mods are responsible for any and all moderating action taken on a subverse. If someone makes a mistake or a poor judgement call, that's on us 100%. Giving janitors the ability to do anything that mods can do makes me uneasy because if that power is abused it's going to come back to the modteam first and the janitors second.
Do moderators have the ability to undo any changes janitors make just in case the system is abused?
Mainly I want to say I appreciate you and Atko doing what you can to lighten the load on mods and also distribute spam-removal ability across a greater area, I just want to make sure communities, modteams, and janitors all have safeguards in place to make sure none can do too much harm to the others without some kind of solid accountability and repair system.
PuttItOut ago
Janitors have limited functionality compared to Moderators/Owners. All removals are logged, so if something bad happens it is easy to find the source.
I imagine that we will have to remove a few Janitors if any of the conditions are not upheld which we've stated.
If you have an issue with a newly assigned Janitor on a system sub and it needs attention from admins, we will act swiftly.
ChillyHellion ago
I appreciate it, and I agree that just having open mod logs goes a long way in enforcing accountability. My main concern is that the actions of any one moderator/janitor can affect the reputation of an entire subverse overnight, but I also believe that people will be more understanding with such a new system while the fine tuning is worked out. Even if a janitor goes completely rogue, I think most people would be able to separate that janitor's actions from the rest of the community in their mind. At least that's my hope.
One other point, will the definition of spam be up to the community, or defined site-wide? Different communities will allow different levels of "spam" if it's on-topic and not too frequent. /v/gaming for example will allow nearly anything gaming-related as long as people posting self-promotional content are also participating in the community through comments and/or non-promotional posts.
Fambida ago
That's a very important point. I help out with /v/badmovies and most of our content (links to streams of/reviews/news about bad movies) would be considered spam if in another subverse.
heygeorge ago
I feel like this is exactly why Putt is reaching out to the active Voat community for volunteers.
Accountability is baked into the system already, through transparent logs.
It seems clear, to me at least, that only egregious spam is to be reported & cleared this way, not any judgement call, moderatory stuff.
thrus ago
Just want to mention to you @recher @kadynce @Pikachuintheshower that you do a great job in /v/gamming (my favorite sub on the site for how things are handled by the mods) and I'm glad to hear you are joining the discussion to be sure there isn't any abuse going on that you can't control.
ChillyHellion ago
I really appreciate it :) thanks, Thrus. I recognize that I'm just a caretaker for the community's sub on Atko's site, so I try to be very careful about not putting my foot down on something I don't ultimately own.
I like that PuttItOut and Atko are taking an earnest look at ways to improve the site, and if it's done correctly then I think that distributing specific site responsibilities among more people can be a good thing. The tricky bit is in making safeguards to match. Mainly I want to make sure that a Janitor's abilities don't reach beyond their responsibility.
And I guess having a modlog that tracks changes to individuals is a good way to audit that, I just also know that one mod's actions can impact the reputation of an entire subverse overnight as well.
Kadynce ago
Appreciate the response and look forward to the changes!
6840282? ago
If you don't like it here and prefer a site where the admins delete everything that might hurt your fee-fees, there are plenty of other sites. Try Reddit for a start.
Or just block v/politics and v/news, and Trump spam will be reduced by at least 50%.
heygeorge ago
Whoops, probably should have used "reading comprehension" before rushing to sign up.
thatguyiam ago
ENLARGE YOUR MANIPPLES UP TO 30%
BY USING OUR BRAND NEW 'SUPER CUCK VITALITY' !!!
;)
brucethemoose ago
That's just the makeup of the userbase, nothing Atko and PutItOut can do about that.
Just give it time. The echo chamber will die down as the hype wanes, in fact the front page already looks a little better.
Cynabuns ago
Spam Killing Ninjas -ACTIVATE !
OhBlindOne ago
We all know you're a one man army.
Cynabuns ago
:D thank you!
OhBlindOne ago
No thanks necessary. Just giving credit where it's due.
Keep it up, man!
Cynabuns ago
Will do - I'm killing spam as we speak!
OhBlindOne ago
How do you find it all?
Cynabuns ago
I can't say that I find it all as there are other spam-ninjas, though I do keep multiple tabs open for the subs that tend to get spammy. Then, once I've done the research, I have also created a little jscript that allows me to report the spam to v/ReportSpammers very very quickly. I used this little jscript as well to create some shortcuts for anyone else that wants to report spam over at the sub too.
OhBlindOne ago
Could I get my hands on this script?
Cynabuns ago
Absolutely and for only a down payment of $999! LOL
It's there for all to see/use in the sticky post, https://voat.co/v/ReportSpammers/1404656. at v/ReportSpammers. Here shortly, I'll make these available in the sidebar too.
OhBlindOne ago
You da bomb!
Cynabuns ago
These help tremendously - if we can all (for the most part) make the reports uniform, they will get handled faster. :D
Now Let's Get Out There and Kill Some Spam!
DependasaurusRex ago
Refresh the new page a lot.
dynamiteVacancy ago
RIP spam, you shan't be missed.
Stavon ago
That about all the subs specifically created for spam? Like all those containing the word "loans".
PuttItOut ago
Yes. Spammers have been able to get around a lot of our barriers and we can't do much without very expensive (resource wise) code, so this is the next best option.
brucethemoose ago
Drafting humans for computational labor?
You monsters! You're worse than the Matrix machines :P
Cynabuns ago
There's a metric ton of these that have already been reported already for clean-up.
flarflar ago
Jesus Christ someone piss in your Cheerios this morning? If you don't like what people post on some stuff block the person and downgoat and write a comment on it why it's spam and report it. If that doesn't work for you you know that you don't have to look at this website right
Karbuster ago
I second this, I didn't vote for him but I am also not surprised or angry that he won. I am also tired of seeing all the BS about him so do you know what I do?
It's quite possibly the most difficult part of my day and I don't know how I find the strength to do it
I hit the little down arrow next to the post
And I move on with my life
brucethemoose ago
Same.
The majority of Voat's registered userbase clearly doesn't feel the same way, but that's OK.
flarflar ago
Ohh god it hurts every time why is the downvote hooked up to my balls
1NOnlyAntiracist ago
Fuck you.
Slayfire122 ago
Compelling argument. I'll counter it by calling you a faggot.