This post is a follow up to following thread:
On The Modding
And the previous mentioned thread was a follow up to the following previously posted thread:
Upcoming Maintenance
Now for the following current thread:
We've utilized vast amounts of caffeine working on implementing new moderator permission sets and have tested and pushed this feature live. In a nutshell we rewrote nearly all of Voat's moderator permission code to handle various actions instead of using simple yes/no checks that we used previously.
While I'll save you the details, here are the changes:
Roles
- L1 / Owner: Unrestricted access.
- L2 / Moderator: Nearly unrestricted access. Can't add new Owners, can't Anon a sub, can't remove other L2 mods.
- L3 / Janitor: Able to remove posts / comments, flair posts, ban users and distinguish content only.
- L4 / Designer: Able to access stylesheet and modify flairs only.
These roles can be used in your subs now.
We will be testing these roles out a bit on @System subs before adding more Janitors to them for SPAM removal. I also want to say thank you to all the people that have offered to help with the SPAM as Voat Janitors.
As with any new feature, please let us know of any issues so we can fix them.
Thanks Voat.
Please note the following:
I've changed @Cynabuns to the Janitor role on v/AskVoat, v/newsubverses, and v/whatever (the three subs I had originally added as regular moderators).
Edits:
Provide your feedback on L2 mods rights and @System sub moderation limits
And just for @SaneGoatiSwear :)
Requests
We have had 0 (zero) gag orders, National Security Requests, FISA orders, injunctions, super-injunctions, publication bans, nor any other free-speech prohibiting action against us nor against voat nor against any signed-in user of voat nor against any guest user nor against any groups of any type of users to the date of the last posting of this notification - - as well, up to that point, voat has been neither a trap of any kind nor has it up to that point been a honeypot. If this notification is not posted or no announcements are made (one) month to the second after the previous announcement, consider voat compromised and act accordingly. (Sorry, we can't agree to this condition but will continue with our regular notices on each announcement as we have been doing)
PM_me_your_mitts ago
Thank you @puttitout
Do you happen to have any breakdowns for new Mods? I just created a sub and realize I'm not quite sure how to make my sub more unique.
Cynabuns ago
The breakdowns are listed in the post as "Roles", though... this might show you how each of the roles can access the Moderators Toolbox.
PM_me_your_mitts ago
Thanks. I believe I wasn't being very clear. I was looking for more in depth of how to edit Style Sheets, Flair Settings, etc...
I'm pretty knowledgeable on HTML and I've played with CSS but I'm not sure where to start with those options.
Cynabuns ago
Have you stopped by v/CustomizingVoat? TONS of info there if you're wanting to do it on your own, or there's some subs where the code is already done, or there's a sub or two where you can ask to have it done for you.
PM_me_your_mitts ago
Fantastic. That is precisely what I was looking for. :)
Cynabuns ago
Cool! If you run into any challenges, give me a PM: I've done some CSS and might be able to throw a little help your way :)
derram ago
One of the recent uodates seems to have broken the blocked subverse list: https://voat.co/user/blocked/subverse
plake1 ago
Most concerned about giving incompetent mods too much power. While I trust Putt and Atko (they do the right thing because they have to), most mod interaction has revealed certain mods to be abusive bullies. Let's hope this works.
bikergang_accountant ago
Two L1s could be a mess. We've seen it where there are a team of multiple L2s and then only one sticks around and he turns out to be trouble. It's inviting more apples to barrel increasing the odds of it spoiling. Your top level needs to be singular.
I definitely think L1 should be assignable to an L*. Then the original L1 is no longer L1. Instant transfer. Multiple L2 solves any problem you hope to solve with multiple L1 because they can do anything besides fuck around with ownership and changes that can permanently fuck over a subverse. They can even assign new L2 from the look of it (which hint, if you are an L1 and need helpers by default use L3s). We need an L2.5 that can't do that.
Ina_Pickle ago
So basically Voat has handed the keys over to the brigaders over in protectvoat. It took less time for this site to become reddit than it took reddit to become reddit. If that even makes sense.
I'm not going to lie and say I'll not use the site. I like having easy access to links for alternative news sources.
However, no more donations from me. I will also be turning on my ad blockers. I do not financially support sites that do not work in the best interest of all their users.
Nesano ago
Those pictures. xD
You're a funny guy.
Anchy ago
lmao, pictures are purrfect!
ah the SPAM!!!! :D
SkepticalMartian ago
What does it matter? All moderators are around here are human spam filters. What's the point of mods having any power in a sub when exercising that power in any way just causes them to get ejected? System subs may as well not have mods at all.
CivetGenet ago
Thank you guys so much for continuing to put in the work for Voat, and the updated canary. : )
I love this place so much and have gotten incredibly worried and paranoid over its health/safety. So this is majorly awesome to me.
Now all we need is timestamped pics of your sexy faces~
PM_ME_UR_NOODZ ago
You're pretty much the worst ingrate I have ever seen
PM_ME_UR_NOODZ ago
There you go expressing gratitude again.
PM_ME_UR_NOODZ ago
You're a fucking phony.
Mindbender4 ago
add a Trusted tag [T] for Trusted users in the sub
heili ago
Applies to everyone except @Cynabuns.
lhkid ago
great update and move!!!
pembo210 ago
Can L4/Designers be allowed to be in more subs? maybe 5-10 additional.. The purpose of the limit was to keep people from owning too many and powermods blah blah blah... Since L4 can't remove content or ban users, they really are more of a support role.
Cynabuns ago
Interesting! By going to this many more, are you suggesting that the new L4/Designer role should not be part of the overall count of subs at all? Maybe list them in a new category as non-moderator positions entirely?
Texan_Pride ago
Thanks Reddit.
6471203? ago
This is awesome news!
Disappointed ago
Semantics but actually 6double modded me. I accepted his 4 month old invite because you couldn't send me one with his still pending.
Atko ago
I have to say that this was all Putt. My daytime job is sucking out all the energy that I used to have for Voat and right now, things are mostly being worked on by Putt. He keeps putting in endless hours into Voat and I really have to admire him for doing so. I hope we can both make this our full time job and I can finally catch up to his efforts, but for now, I'll have to jump in whenever I have time and energy.
@PuttItOut: thank you.
antiplebbitor ago
LOLWUT ATKO IS BAILING FUCK VOAT!
SaneGoatiSwear ago
i sincerely urge a way for us as a community to show our appreciation in bitcoin form! if voat's really running on donations, month after month, show us! and show us another tracker for "dev coffee"!
Nesano ago
This kinda stuff I like to see.
Disappointed ago
I think the majority will be happy to see you two on the same page, both literally and figuratively.
Failure ago
Oh yeah, @atko, putt needs to know the date that Forbidme became Whoaverse. New badge stuff.
PuttItOut ago
PV?
6471001? ago
In PV where it can be stickied.
xeemee ago
thanks - i think a new permission set should be made to accommodate subs that set "Only allow submissions from authorized submitters" where authed submitters have posting privileges only and no moderation privs
PuttItOut ago
@FuzzyWords mentioned this earlier and we should do it.
Edit: I'll do it tomorrow.
xeemee ago
thanks - and while i have your attention, i would ask that the problems with basic posting be addressed if possible; "system error", "you're doing that too fast", etc. - all of which seem to be triggered by lengthy posts/comments and which result in losing the post/comment content at the time the page is refreshed for users who don't ctrl+c before submission
i also notice this problem more frequently now when replying to comments in the user message box, even when that reply is very short, yet if you go to the actual post/comment page and reply, it works fine
thanks again
PuttItOut ago
Yes, I saw your post in v/voatdev. I will be looking into this hopefully this week.
Lopsid ago
Atko, Putt, and Sane, eat a fucking cake immediately!
Can I become a Janitor on my subverses and never have the ability to move up and never have any positions be "transferred" or given to anyone else (unless I'm inactive I guess)? If there must be an owner or a mod then maybe consider creating an account like system but for people like me?
So we won't see this kind of Request put out after this one?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
yeah @puttitout i implore you to keep this new one as the regular canary!
HomerSimpson ago
I get it was just easier to make a bunch of set positions but why not allow the owner of the sub be able to choose the permissions themselves? From full access like adding new mods to minimal access. Should just use reddit's system. It is close to perfect.
PuttItOut ago
This is the first step in that direction. This was a 12 hour refactoring, we'd need another 40-50 to do the full implementation.
HomerSimpson ago
Good to know that it is at least planned.
6470779? ago
Can they add level 2 mods and why is that allowed? You didnt really address that in the last thread despite users making good points. IF that has been the vector of attack before why is it allowed? If system subs are meant to be protected from malicious users why is it allowed?
PokemonNigga ago
@Puttitout is lying. Think about it. These changes were supposed to fix a problem he just said he wasn't sure this would fix.
6471134? ago
I don't think he is lying maybe confused a bit because of questions flying at him.
PuttItOut ago
I'll have to double check on this, but I don't think anything has changed in this area.
@Kevdude, would you mind maybe starting a single thread about this subject and the rules on system sub moderation so we can get input on how to handle these things?
If you do I'll update this post with the URL.
SkepticalMartian ago
You give that troll far too much power around here.
omegletrollz ago
I have no idea where the new post is or if it has been submitted at all but I'd like to add my 20 cents on it: it's mandatory that moderators be able to add new mods. It's common for the owners of subverses to leave the site or be away for very long - they're not paid to be here so they needn't. As far as I can tell the owner of v/shortpoems hasn't logged in in over a month. And that's fine! He will come back at some point and I, as the only active mod, don't have to take the subverse from him via a take-over request since I can do pretty much all the important things as a mod if necessary. This is extremely common in smaller subs.
Talking about this scenario in general and not only about v/shortpoems: the only reason this is fine is because I can add new mods if I feel that managing the sub is too much for me alone and these mods can do the same as well if I ever go away. Take-over requests should be a last-resort scenario because not only it requires manual intervention by a human somewhere to make it happen (which should be minimized for efficiency) but it is also prone to abuse. A new owner can do anything he wants with the sub.
My point being: nowadays, as long as there is at least one active moderator the sub will be fine. If you take away the power of mods to add new mods this is no longer the case because the mod can't add new mods to make sure the subverse will stay healthy even if they stop coming to Voat or doing their job properly for any reason. I think most of the people criticizing this are thinking of system subs but the rules apply to all subs and I'm concerned about the small ones here.
Story time: the owner of another small sub which I sometimes post on contacted me recently and told me he was losing interest in Voat and wanted someone else to take over daily management of the sub (even if not a very active one) so he could step away from Voat knowing the sub was still cared for. I seemed like a good poster there and he saw I was modding a few other small active subs as well so he came to me in a PM. He said that he will be coming back once in a while to check the sub so he is still the owner. I myself do the same thing to a subreddit I left over when I came to Voat, I go there every couple of months to make sure it's fine.
What is wrong with this story? Absolutely nothing. But it would be wrong if I didn't have the power to add new mods because if the day comes I need to take the same actions as him I'd either have to 1. wait for him to come back which might take a month (or more, or never happen) and ask him to find a new mod; 2. take the subverse from him via a take-over request only to add a new mod which would end up in the same non-sense situation; 3. abandon the subverse entirely. Today I can just add a new mod like he did and be on my merry way, leaving the rightful owner of the sub in his proper place if he ever comes back to resume his activities.
If there really is potential abuse for mods, I suggest a new role is added ("L 2.5 lesser mod" or something), which should be easy to do since the entire permission system is now role-based. But I don't think it's necessary, I think the system is fine as-is: mods are supposed to be all-powerful entities which you trust entirely. Their only limitation is that they are not more powerful than the owner, which will override their decisions if need be and remove abusive mods from power. This is how things should be - why would you even mod someone you don't trust, to begin with?
6481801? ago
If the sub is suffering because the level 1 is away then you need to request it.
Because they haven't got the balls to trash the sub themself so they call in trolls to do it like has happened multiple times in the past.
PokemonNigga ago
I don't understand. Wasn't the whole point of doing this to fix the very problem you just said you weren't sure this would fix?
You don't make sense. As the other guy said
" IF that has been the vector of attack before why is it allowed? If system subs are meant to be protected from malicious users why is it allowed? "
And you said you didn't know.
Wasn't the whole point of making these changes to address the very problem you're saying you aren't sure this will fix?
PuttItOut ago
What I meant was I was unsure if the code allowed this as I haven't looked at it for a while and will need to check.
These changes most certainly help @System subs though, as we previously didn't want to add mods because of the risks, now we can add Janitors and be better protected.
Cuckbot ago
From here: https://voat.co/v/voatdev/396670
6471126? ago
The code allows it. If you trust @kevdude ask him how he was modded to v/sports
PokemonNigga ago
Well you're doing this to censor Amalek. That's all. Guranteed this system will be abused somehow. You're replicating the same error you're attempting to fix. Do whatever you want, it's your site, but this system was implemented to keep a handle on Amalek since brigading his accounts wasn't working anymore.
Whatever...
6470929? ago
I cant see any reason why a level 2 would need to invite another level 2 to a system sub, can you? If I'm a level 1 mod Im going to be reluctant to put a level 2 mod on my sub because I know they can invite anyone they want. Askvoat was trashed by a group of users invited by a level 2 mod. v/pics recently had a mod added by the Mod of that sub who you know nothing about. The users weren't asked about it at all. Do you want users to have input into who is modding? Homersimpson down there mentions a rare case scenario where it may cause some inconvenience if a level 2 cant add users. You admins have had to intervene twice now on system subs and once on v/niggers because lvl 2 can invite as many level 2 as they want. Thats my input on it.
HomerSimpson ago
Because sometimes a level two mod is trustworthy enough from the owner position to be able to add more level two mods. Sometimes it is needed because owner is away for the time being and you need a new mod while they are away.
6470933? ago
This is a rare case scenario. The risks outweigh the benefits by a long margin.
6470898? ago
Says the guy who trashed v/askvoat after being invited by another level 2 mod
6471145? ago
yeah @HomerSimpson is a douche
HomerSimpson ago
Completely irrelevant. Not to mention that it leaves out the part it sped the admins up to remove @she. You should be thanking me.
6470952? ago
Its the exact reason why they shouldn't be able to invite other level 2's. The sub went modless for almost a year because of a troll like you got invited by another troll. Don't pat yourself on the back.
HomerSimpson ago
No. It was modless for over a year because the admins are slow when it comes to that shit.
HarveyHarveyJones ago
I'd like a response to that as well.
DietCokehead1 ago
Great update, guys!
PlasmaDistortion ago
Thanks guys! We appreciate all that you do!!!!
Secus ago
Sweet dude
SaneGoatiSwear ago
<3 you putt. can't wait for
Soon™
PuttItOut ago
Oh we are friends again now huh? Welcome back my friend. ;)
madazzahattereboot ago
Thanks for snorting up all that caffeine and putting things like this in to place. There are those who walk among us that would like to contribute more...
SaneGoatiSwear ago
i love voat, and have been grateful for all the hard work you two do - -
this is afaik the last bastion of free speech on the internet....
and it is out of love for free speech and voat that we must keep it honest for the sake of having it at all;
together, all goats keep the pasture green. divided, the pasture falls. or you know some goat reference that's better applied..
thank you, putt! :)