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sguevar ago

I appreciate your intake on this, and maybe we can find a common ground on this. But at this point the one that has power to put all of this to rest is @srayzie.

She has the power on whether this ends now or not. I hope she does use it wisely for I would see this ban as dangerous defeat to what Voat represents.

Regarding your question mark I make the same argument, any post done from twitter, screencap of personal accounts of other people including President Trump for that matter can be considered as doxxing under that logic.

I don't agree with it. If the pics were on public domain they do not infer a doxxing otherwise the posts that @antiliberalsociety has done on @TexasVet would also infer said behavior and their not because they users themselves linked them and are on the web. They are material that can't be use for profiteering we can agree on that but they can't be considered doxxing of any kind.

WhiteRonin ago

Google “Srayzie” oops I dox’ed her! Fuck don’t click on that link!

Vindicator ago

any post done from twitter, screencap of personal accounts of other people including President Trump for that matter can be considered as doxxing under that logic.

Not exactly @sguevar and @kevdude. The difference here is that srayzie asked that it be taken down. I believe under the DMCA, that mandates @PuttitOut remove it. Under that logic, since srayzie asked Triggly to remove the content and she refused, that then put Triggly in violation of the law Putt has to abide by. I could be wrong about that.

I believe there are additional circumstances at play, here, as well, if @Srayzie linked to that prior to the incident involving NeonRevolt several months ago where several different accounts were posting messages all over various social media asking for help doxing her. They also threatened to rape her in front of her kids.

I am pretty sure the DMCA considers the creator of the images to retain copyright and recognizes their legal right to request sites remove their images, text, music and any other content they created...whether they posted it or not.

Perhaps @cynabuns knows more about how DMCA requirements might apply, here.

ooberlu ago

I believe under the DMCA, that mandates @PuttitOut remove it.

DMCA only applies to copyrighted work. It's highly doubtful that Srayzie copyrighted her selfies.

Once she uploaded her pics onto Twitter, they fell under the category of "content submission" according to Twitter TOS. Said pics then became considered fair use within public domain. They are not protected.

Putt removing them is within his rights as site admin. But her selfies are not protected under copyright law, nor does DMCA apply here.

Vindicator ago

DMCA only applies to copyrighted work. It's highly doubtful that Srayzie copyrighted her selfies.

I absolutely guarantee she copyrighted them.

Copyright is created the moment a work is created. You don't have to register a copyright (though you can).

Once she uploaded her pics onto Twitter, they fell under the category of "content submission" according to Twitter TOS. Said pics then became considered fair use within public domain. They are not protected.

This would be equivalent to saying an author gives up copyright to any publishing house that prints his book, which is not the case. Rights are licensed to the publisher -- and they pay for them, establishing a contract. Twitter doesn't even have that claim.

I find it hard to believe the idea that Twitter has some magical right to any creative content users post. Otherwise, every musician, artist, photographer or author who used Twitter to promote their work and communicate with their fans would lose the rights to their copyrighted material. There would be no celebrities on Twitter, and Twitter would fold. I don't buy it.

Show me the court rulings that allow Twitter's TOS to overrule an individual's rights over content that they have created.

ooberlu ago

Copyright is created the moment a work is created. You don't have to register a copyright (though you can).

This is an incomplete fact. It’s misleading to state this without acknowledging why it is important to register a copyright.

Lack of copyright registration gives you no legal copyright ownership over created work. You would be required to go through the burden of proof and show evidence that it was yours and you created it if the issue of infringement came up in court.

Once you register and are granted a copyright, you possess ownership over use of said work. You can't legally have one without the other in a court of law. It's assumed that if you establish your copyrights, that you have registered for ownership. It would be pointless to assert a claim without legally following up to stake said claim.

This would be equivalent to saying an author gives up copyright to any publishing house that prints his book, which is not the case. Rights are licensed to the publisher -- and they pay for them, establishing a contract.

I'm not addressing authors, I'm addressing copyright as it pertains to this person's photos and her use of social media to upload photos.

Twitter doesn't even have that claim.

You are correct. They do state that you own your content. Please see here.

BUT and this is a huge BUT that most people do not understand! They also state that you agree to grant Twitter the right to use and distribute your content globally, freely and without compensation. Please see the following:

By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Services, you grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, reproduce, process, adapt, modify, publish, transmit, display and distribute such Content in any and all media or distribution methods (now known or later developed). This license authorizes us to make your Content available to the rest of the world and to let others do the same. You agree that this license includes the right for Twitter to provide, promote, and improve the Services and to make Content submitted to or through the Services available to other companies, organizations or individuals for the syndication, broadcast, distribution, promotion or publication of such Content on other media and services, subject to our terms and conditions for such Content use. Such additional uses by Twitter, or other companies, organizations or individuals, may be made with no compensation paid to you with respect to the Content that you submit, post, transmit or otherwise make available through the Services.

TLDR on that last paragraph:

  • You grant fair use, worldwide, royalty-free licensing right to Twitter for any content you submit.

  • Twitter will distribute your content worldwide.

  • Don't expect to be paid by Twitter.

  • Don't expect to be paid by any company or individual who wants to use your content if they found it through Twitter.

You can find the exact italicized paragraph under Section 3. Content on the Services

I find it hard to believe the idea that Twitter has some magical right to any creative content users post.

Believe or deny what you want. It's written in plain text. I have not only linked it for you, I have copied and pasted it for you.

The clause I cited above is pretty standard in most User Agreements/Terms of Services/Privacy Agreements for corporations. It's a legal way and roundabout way for them to grant themselves fair use to free content on a public domain without having to pay licenses, pay royalty feed, receive written prior permission, etc.

We're been in a digital age of content marketing for at least a decade. What better way to get free digital content than to have a platform by which millions of users willingly and eagerly submit their thoughts/ideas/works? All you have to do is insert a little clause that most people don't even bother to read to understand what their rights are.

Otherwise, every musician, artist, photographer or author who used Twitter to promote their work and communicate with their fans would lose the rights to their copyrighted material. There would be no celebrities on Twitter, and Twitter would fold. I don't buy it.

Artists, musicians, photographers, etc who have excellent management and representation are always advised to copyright and/or trademark (through registration) their work prior to publishing onto sm platforms. They understand that it is used for promotional purposes. But the smart ones take care to legally protect their work.

Vindicator ago

Thanks for explaining all that.

Obviously Twitter and other platforms would need the right to distribute, since the content is on their platform, which they are making available internationally.

Do Twitter or Voat's TOS rights also require that content creators allow other subscribers to freely use and distribute their work? That's the real issue, here.

A Voat user took content owned by a different voat user and embedded it in the CSS of their own subverse here on Voat without her permission, Twitter's permission, or Voat's permission. Do the TOS useage rights actually apply to the user who does not own the content?

ooberlu ago

Thanks for explaining all that.

You're welcome.

Do Twitter or Voat's TOS rights also require that content creators allow other subscribers to freely use and distribute their work? That's the real issue, here.

WRT to Twitter, "requires" is not the correct term in this case. But yes, it does state in Twitter's TOS that you agree to allow others to freely use and distribute your work.

WRT to Voat, you also agree, albeit indirectly. You also release Voat from liability of any submitted content.

See here:

We take no responsibility for, we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, and we do not assume any liability for any user content submitted by you to Voat.

A Voat user took content owned by a different voat user and embedded it in the CSS of their own subverse here on Voat without her permission, Twitter's permission, or Voat's permission. Do the TOS useage rights actually apply to the user who does not own the content?

A few things:

First, no permission is required from either Twitter, Voat or the user. The content has no copyright ownership and has been available in the public domain. It is free to use without fear of lawsuit from infringement under the Fair Use of copyright law.

Secondly, an argument can be made that what was done with this content falls under parody. Parody is highly protected under the First Amendment. So even if it was copyrighted, laws governing free speech grant fair use for the sake of parody.

Lastly, this statement on Voat again: We take no responsibility for, we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, and we do not assume any liability for any user content submitted by you to Voat.

Welcome to the internet. Best to not submit any information that is unprotected or that you care to have ownership over. It's a losing battle and more trouble than it's worth.

think- ago

Show me the court rulings that allow Twitter's TOS to overrule an individual's rights over content that they have created.

I don't know about Twitter, but this is the what the Voat User .Agreement says -

"Content

You retain the rights to your copyrighted content or information that you submit to Voat ("user content") except as described below.

By submitting user content to Voat, you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, unrestricted, worldwide license to reproduce, prepare derivative works, distribute copies, perform, or publicly display your user content in any medium and for any purpose, including commercial purposes, and to authorize others to do so. You agree that you have the right to submit anything you post, and that your user content does not violate the copyright, trademark, trade secret or any other personal or proprietary right of any other party. We take no responsibility for, we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, and we do not assume any liability for any user content submitted by you to Voat."

. Fair Use applies to any content that is created in the context of education or journalism.

i.e. you can use copyright material like pics if you want to do a video about the Q movement, or write a newspaper or blog article about it.

Vindicator ago

So Voat's User Agreement gives Voat copyrights to a user's content, but it does not give other Voat users the right to use that content against the permission of its creator, correct?

think- ago

Yes. Certainly in the context of a sub like /shitsrayziesays imo.

Although I'm not sure whether DMCA would apply if somene posted a research post in a sub like v/pizzagate.

Like 'Ten Pizzagaters who have incfluenced the Q anon movement' or something along the line. In this context, a pic of @srayzie once posted by her to Twitter might fall under 'fair use'.

Damn, we need a @Pizzagatelawyer who would know! ;-)

@HugoWeaving @PuttItOut

WhiteRonin ago

This is actually a Twitter issue since they have bing and google access and srayzie pops as the number 1 hit!

She didn’t DMCA twitter, google or bing did she?

Vindicator ago

I don't know. All I'm saying is, asking for her copyrighted material to be removed probably activated the DMCA.

antiliberalsociety ago

You first must obtain said copyright. From what I understand, links to 3rd party accounts were posted, that she herself controls. If it was creating such a problem, she could easily remove the content herself. Voat never hosted said content.

Vindicator ago

Voat never hosted said content.

Yes, Voat did. They put the pictures of her as the banner of subverse, using CSS.

You first must obtain said copyright.

Wrong. Copyright exists from the moment original content is created, and is wholly owned by it's creator unless the person gave up the rights to their creation through a pre-existing contract (i.e. a ghostwriter). It's not like a patent or trademark.

RockmanRaiden ago

Thanks for your methodical explanation of things.

Vindicator ago

What would be the fair use argument in this case?

antiliberalsociety ago

Voluntarily uploaded to the internet without intent to make a profit, no profit was gained in its use on Voat

think- ago

Voat never hosted said content.

Not true. The moment Trigglypuff copied @srayzie's pics to her new Voat sub, Voat hosted the pics.

@PuttItOut was obliged to take them down per DMCA when @srayzie requested it.

If Trigglypuff had linked to @srayzie's Twitter, or one of @srayzie's tweets with her thumbnail pic, that would have been a different matter.

@PuttItOut might want to consider adding a clause to the Voat User Agreement that copypasting somenone's pic from social media is not allowed (as opposed to merely linking to it), or something along the line. That would clarify the matter.

Currently a bunch of people who are not part of the harassing gang seem to be genuinely confused why publicly available info like Twitter pics constitute doxxing.

Maybe Putt could do a new sticky. ;-)

@Vindicator @Crensch @SandHog

antiliberalsociety ago

You skipped the part of needing to actually apply for a copyright, under fair use if Trig didn't make money off of it, it's fair game. DMCA was never a part of this situation, but it's been resolved regardless.

SandHog ago

I expect he will before too much longer. It's interesting seeing people playing internet lawyer and defending someone who was attempting to use her free speech in an effort to silence someone else's. Given the context of the situation that is exactly what was happening irregardless of the intent.

think- ago

This is what the Voat User Agreement says -

"Keep Personal Information Off Voat: You agree to not post anyone's sensitive personal information that relates to that person's real world or online identity."

Based on the term above, you could argue that the pic were 'sensitive personal information relating to @srayzie's online identity' (on Twitter).

Imo it just needs to be clarified.

https://voat.co/help/useragreement

@PuttItOut @Vindicator @Crensch @kevdude

think- ago

@kevdude @theoldones - please see parent.

WhiteRonin ago

Hmm, then we need to also talk about the GDPR - cookies and user data storage. Too many people expose problems care info that needs to be wiped from Voat servers.

sguevar ago

I have addressed the matter privately at this moment. Let's hope a healing process can start.

Vindicator ago

A sentiment I endorse.

I do think it's important for goats to recognize legal limitations that may constrain Putt.

sguevar ago

This doesn't change the fact that I am pissed about what @zyklon_b did and is planning to do but I will not let him corrupt the essence of Voat by having one user burnt.

WhiteRonin ago

It’s not just him. Lots of fuckery is going on both sides.

Vindicator ago

Well, he says he's not done yet: https://archive.fo/8Im0v

And for the record, this is not the first time.

@Gothamgirl and a sockpuppet that sounds very familiar attempted to take advantage of the death of a pizzagate researcher whom I had had to ban months before for refusing to follow submission rules, to stir drama and fan claims I was somehow responsible for her death last summer. This involved death threats that were waved off as "performance art."

@Crensch exposed the shit show here. But it was srayzie's evidence against GG and Jem777 (the Voat name of the woman who died) in my defense that put a stop to the disinfo fuckery. There was a group demanding I be demodded; as the O, he had to step in. She claimed to have pictures of v/pizzagate mods chatting in chatroom with pedos. Knowing what this group likes to do with CSS, it wouldn't surprise me if they had cobbled together some jpg to that effect. But she knows she will get banned from pizzagate if she doesn't link directly to the supporting source material for claims. Gothamgirl's shitstirring and lies were so bad we considered giving her a username flair.

Anyway, @Zyklon_b's fuckery did not occur in a vacuum. This group of thugs has attempted to destroy v/pizzagate as well. Voat should know.

SearchVoatBot ago

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zyklon_b ago

E-THUGGIN IS MORE THAN JUST A HOBBY IS A LIFESTYLE

Vindicator ago

Obviously. Especially for desperate Redditors with erectile dysfunction who want to destroy Voat.

zyklon_b ago

ask muh m8 @andrew_jackson boutn @whiteronin

1990

zyklon_b ago

sguevar ago

Fuck you faggot, you don't care for her at all.

zyklon_b ago

unban @trigglypuff and the war ends

sguevar ago

Faggot your war will end I can assure you of this but what you a re doing is not because you care about her.

zyklon_b ago

It will end NOW if @trigglypuff is unbanned

sguevar ago

I am sure it will end faggot, you done enough. Now shut the fuck up because right now you have no word on the matter. You are only digging your hole deeper.