Personally I don't see having kids as a violation of "going your own way", if that's where it takes you. MGTOW is more of an economic response to the rising cost of the juice and the decreasing value from squeezing it, rather than a rejection of any specific institution

Going MGTOW is the most efficient way to admit that you have failed as a man.

aggressive alimony laws and child support laws also prevent whites from reproducing because white men don't want to get taken to the cleaners for wanting to start a family

alimony needs to be abolished and child support needs to be capped

thirty jews today, eh?

So you admit it's cancer

Being called Crensch's alt is undoubtedly the most offensive thing anyone has ever said to me on Voat.

Amen. MGTOW is the most retarded thing men on our side have adopted

anyone hating mgtows have obviously never been absolutely wrecked by their own women siding with jewbag lawyers and goy law enforcers. had their savings drained, and been evicted from their home at the point of a gun. mine only lived with me for two weeks before she brought out the feminist artillery, and she was as "conservative" as you could imagine. I was tricked.

some mgtows like myself who do have children with a white woman and have been absolutely steamrolled are investing and working for an early retirement, and plan to have a family in a non extradition country. if she so much as fucks with me, I'm either laying hands on her, which is ironically what most women want, or on the next plane flight to the next horizon. suicide is for pussies. mgtows largely just want to warn young stupid men, of which i was one of them.

I have no problem if a man genuinely had had enough of women and decides to focus on himself for awhile.

But the issue with these types of "movements" is how radicalized they become, to the point where the guys begin behaving and looking like something no women would want to be with, and they begin enforcing within their "group", this no-girl life style, to the excess where a guy could meet a girl who is perfect for him and he gets reminded and riled up by some mgtow group member and scares her away. Ensuring all of them remain single and going their own way... but together.

Can't argue such sound reasoning.

I wouldn’t call these bitches men ...

MGTOW was probably started with good intentions of rejecting modern whores, but it got co-opted by this "All women are hypergamous, you can't trust a single one of them" angle.

It's probably the same with feminism.

Feminists want someone else to support them, and sit with the other fathers table at Thanksgiving, while validating their strong womanhood.

mgtow seem to be refusing to participate in that nonsense, choosing to opt of dating completely, rather than filtering available women.

Feminism seems more angry and demanding, whereas mgtow seems more of a "fuck this, I quit"

Me at present:

-Working (One Day Job, One Side Hustle)

-Learning (One to two hours per day through Cybrary, Udemy and Khan Academy, respectively for a possible side hustle to turn into a profiting business later)

-Rebuilding Finances (paying off debt while making small investments as I'm able to in precious metals)

-Exercising (Five to six days per week, two hours per day minimum)

-Happy (Exercise isn't just changing me physically but mentally as well. Depression has been sent packing)

-No Drugs (unless you're counting caffiene and nicotine which the latter, I can do days without)

-No Wife, No Girlfriend, No Children

Went my own way after my second divorce. My quality of life improved. During my second marriage I thought, "How the hell can it get any worse than this?" Then the post-Divorce happened and it did. Blue State. I got through all of that. In my own opinion, my life is pretty sick awesome. More so now than during the last couple years of marriage and much better than the few years post-Divorce.

Right now, for me, everything's ducky. Now, let's go into your post.

Right now, you can see that I am an independent person. Getting stronger physically every day. Let's say that I decide right this second to go find someone to fall in love with, maybe marry but definitely have children with. There's no quality of life there for any of us. Financially, I'm not able to support a marriage and a child even if conditions were ideal which we all know they never are all the time. So what benefit would me having a large family be if I have no means to support it? I've seen some bitch, piss and moan that their children will be paying for my retirement so the opposite of that if I were to do it right now would be their entire family paying for mine. Not something you want, not something I want.

Take into consideration the area I'm in at present. Let's say, conservatively, there's an estimate of about 90% of women that have addictions (face it, that's what they are) to drugs like Xanax, Prozac, Adderall, Ritalin and Concerta. In my day job, I see the amount of women that "need" that shit to get along. One script for that is bad enough but for some it's a combo of the two or three. I've been up against that in my last marriage. You can't "sculpt" that and the doctors? They don't want to work with you at all. You're interrupting their customer base. In fact, they want YOU on that stuff too and they think something is wrong with YOU if you refuse. Of that 90%, they're on these drugs, attending Marxist indoctrination centers and they have a drug-reinforced, mentally-ill belief system that is boosted by media like CNN which is popularly consumed. They #BelieveAllWomen and #MeToo and just go for the official story hook, line and sucker. That's a minefield. Search for the 10% and maybe you succeed...big maybe. Better chance that you're going to hit a mine and anyone can be a minesweeper...once.

Now let's say that I go my own way for the time being. I spend time building my situation, my wealth, my mind and my body into the best they've ever been and I choose to protect that. Then, I'm in a far better situation. Then I can move to an area where the mix isn't such a minefield. Then, maybe I choose a woman who will be a suitable life partner and who will bear my children and then I can teach them to build themselves first and settle for nothing but the absolute best. Never make excuses and take no excuses from anyone. Once I retire with the woman I've chosen, then my children and yours don't have to take care of us, financially. We're not a burden on society, we're not a burden on them and, when I'm gone, I will have something to pass on to all of them to ensure that they're taken care of.

I don't know which of those you would choose and, frankly, I'm not asking. I know which way I've chosen to go and it's been decided and no ridicule, no downvotes, nothing anyone else says will change that and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

The title of your post is completely bullshit. The entire missive you post after clicking on this title shows it. You've made up your mind. You don't want it changed and you won't hear actual evidence to the contrary. What you expect is for the man who's been run through the grinder to pull his pulpy mass back together haphazardly and jump back in, leading to more of the same. If he doesn't he's a disgrace to you. How, realistically, do you think that pans out? Your oversimplification reflects that you want nothing more than to micromanage the lives of others and, I don't know if you've noticed but I'll go ahead and point it out. Many Americans have been putting up with that. We're all fucking tired of it. That's why Trump's in office right now. That's why House Democrats aren't long for office. If we're tired of that type of insufferable know-it-all attitude from politicians, we won't take it from some random person on a website who thinks he has the world on a string and has it all figured out.

Two divorces showed me that, at my young age, I didn't have it figured out. Not by a damn sight. My advice, correct that shit before you end up learning you don't the hard way. Spare yourself that pain.

So if me choosing to rebuild myself and my situation into something far better before even considering female companionship and children is being a disgrace to my race well I have news for you. I've been called worse by better.

That's all I got. Unplug for awhile. Go for hikes. Learn a skill for fun and profit and get out there and own it.

The thing is, when you as a man, become strong and independent women start becoming attracted to you. It is simple biology, women go along to get along. Men like to fight and conquer, to compete, to figure out things to master nature.

Nothing moistens a women's panties like a man who can get shit done and doesn't take shit from anyone.

Narcissists and sociopaths do very well with women because they have confidence and self assurance or at least project that facade well. That is attractive to women in the short term.

maybe for the younger MGTOW's. I have some sympathy for older guys who got screwed over by divorce and the (((courts))), but the younger ones who don't even try and opt to end their genetic line seem pretty similar to the crazy cat lady feminists. except feminists actually managed to change society (for the worse, for the most part), but MGTOW's just "go their own way" and haven't managed to bring about any productive changes (that I've seen so far), so in a way they're even more useless pussies than feminists.

It’s meninism.

Be a strong, independent (person) and don't let the opposite sex and the institution dictate your life choices.

Wait. Hold on. Are you implying that men should let the opposite sex dictate their life choices??

Is that you're advice to young men?? Because I don't think that advice will work to get women attracted to you. All the red-pill TRP types advise that as a man, you should have your own mission. Women will come to you when they see that you're a winner.

That advice does not work for women because men don't give a shit if a woman is a "winner" - we value them for their youth and fertility. That's why it's so dumb when feminism tells women:

Be a strong, independent (person) and don't let the opposite sex and the institution dictate your life choices.

But when TRP (and other manosphere ideologies) tell men:

Be a strong, independent (person) and don't let the opposite sex and the institution dictate your life choices.

That is good advice.

...and yet for some reason, you hold this up as a negative. I think you lost the narrative there.

feminism and MGOTW reduces the number of white families

I disagree. I believe there more than enough marriage-worthy men available for the current population of marriage-worthy women. I think that there are very few marriage-worthy women and I think that every. single. last. one of them is able to successfully find a man, marry, and have a white family.

When you look at populations of women complaining (many examples here: /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen/) what do you see? You see women who squandered their youth and their fertility; women who never bothered to develop domestic skills that would be useful to a family; women who never even tried to have a family - What do you not see? You don't see women around 20 years old saving themselves for marriage and desiring a man with family values. Those women exist, but they get married easily.

You will not increase the number of white families by fighting MGTOW. You are wasting your time. There is already a surplus of men. We don't need more marriage-minded men. If you want to help, you need to convince young women to stop being degenerate.

It's all just bullshit so Whites won't breed.

Not even the same country, much less ballpark.

Think for yourself, educate yourself about consequences, make rational decisions about relationship, and love a single women who wants to be loyal, monogamous, and provide and be mothers to their children without being selfish. Stay away from goldiggers too.

That is MGTOW. It's a temporary educational stage, where as Feminism is enslavement for a lifetime.

You must be lonely, what with being such a significant dipshit.

4.6 year account that doesn't post much suddenly has an opinion...

same useless garbage as feminists.

consume, complaint and let the sub humans proliferate while the white are going extinct.

If you're new here and MGTOW please visit: https://voat.co/v/TraditionalWives

MGTOW retards sound like such little faggots. Yeah women are fucked, of course they are. They are having anti-men, anti-family, pro-whore, pro-degeneracy propaganda constantly shoved down their throats. Women are degenerates by nature, even the most intelligent women are utterly incapable of ever making good decisions. When they aren't controlled by men they destroy themselves and everything around them. If your allow your woman to take your kids away, take half your shit and ruin your life, literally piss in your face, she never respected you in the first place. My wife knows what very well what would happen if she fucked me over. I know what women are and I deal with them accordingly. You expect them to behave in a certain way not realizing that they basically have no will of their own and are extremely easy to manipulate. You are too weak to be considered men of any worth, you might as well be a fucking social studies lesbian retard with your value system and crybaby excuses. You must mold women into what you want them to be, not expect them to be a finished product and act in a desirable way right as you meet them. Women get their values from men. There are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners. You don't know how to deal with women. You're 40-50 years old have gone through divorce and you still don't understand shit. And you unironically call yourself redpilled while contributing to the destruction of your nations as much as jews, niggers or marxist SJWs. Instead of realizing that there is a problem which only white men can fix and start from there, you whine about the situation being hard instead because you're incapable of dealing with problems. "Whaaaaaa laws favor women and also they are evil conniving whores that will ruin you if given the chance" Woooooowwwww you are such a smart little fella!!! Did you figure that one out on your own??? Now what are you gonna do about it big boy? A bunch of fucking cucks is what you are.

I mean, thatd make sense if most mgtow weren’t already dad’s.

I never understood how right wingers could be mad at MRAs I get it "more white babies" I agree we need more whites but marrying yourself to a dumpster fire that will divorce you at the drop of a hat and ruin your children like we see all around us every day all day, is a terrible idea, there aren't enough good women to go around today so we need to scare the next generation of girls into abandoning feminism by refusing to associate with the women who fuel the coal fire that is burning our civilization. You could logically say that will leave us with a lost generation of men and women but I say we use the left's tactics against itself, they want to push degeneracy by lowering the age of consent and we want obedient women whose place is in the home, we should be pushing an age gap so that right-wing men establish themselves and marry the youngest girls they are legally able to, the goal being to mimic the control our ancestors had over their women by not giving them this time destroy their purity and become poison to their people, it's a successful strategy in Islam and other conquest cultures.

Not every mgtow is trying to achieve this but most could be led to this position, yes there are degenerate mgtow, who avoid all Western women like the plague and will settle for Asians who treat them well, the problem anyone on the right should have isn't with mgtow, mgtow is a symptom of a cancer in our society and that cancer is women's liberation.

Instead of flinging turds at the various men's movements you should be nurturing and guiding them because they were the road most of us traveled to get here and can guide many more.

I'll outline how the elements of what was once called the manosphere guided me and how in turn we should be nurturing them towards our shared end goals.

In high school I did one of the very first no fap challenges on 4chan, in small part to see if I could do it but in part because I wanted the rumored/speculated testosterone boost and primarily the top shelf orgasm at the other end, this challenge was promoted on image boards along side many guides for the extremely lustful interests of young men to master or at least learn the arts of seduction so I dedicated much time to studying and practicing pick up artistry, from a fatherless home myself I had no guidance about women most boys growing up today won't have a man to guide them in their relationships, they need guidance and PUAs mostly care about pussy, not society. From here I found a community birthed by the intersection of the mass of men abstaining masterbation finding newfound motivation to pursue carnal pursuits with desperate efficiency and discovering the state of women it has evolved into a social theory that continually proves itself and bases itself on mass collection of field data and self improvement, The Red Pill, "TRP" has brother movements that b came the "manosphere" around a decade ago: NoFap a half formed brother which was coopted by controlled opposition and killed from within in just a few years. MGTOW, these were men saying that they weren't interested in pursuing the common women of our time, not some vow to remain celibate or avoid marriage or shun all women but to set their own standards and keep them, some men in this group have impossible standards or just hide behind the label as a coping mechanism but most are just disregaurding females on some general terms, if a good woman made an effort to make a catch out of one she would be able to 9 out of 10 times. MRAs, men's rights advocates, these guys are doing a good thing and fighting the culture war against feminism, politically I'm not necessarily a fan of their notion of fixing the problem at hand, I see them as combat medics providing emergency care to a system that has been shit in the aorta and needs serious intervention they cannot provide but they have good optics and raise the big problems to people blinded by kikes. A huge spattering of cucks and kikes subverting these movements internally, whom we could identify and show the [wooden] door if more of us chose to interact with and guide these movements. The last is the newborns of the manosphere it's sort of the aborted child if the time when that buzzword was gaining steam, the Incel community. "Incels" [involuntary celibates] are complicated many are frustrated aging virgins but it genuinely appears that many are just men who have come to learn the true nature of women and hate them, and so I would say that the Incel community are maybe half virgins, maybe a bit more, only half of whom are really involuntary celibates the other half just won't fuck fatties, uggly chicks, negresses etc, they are picky, they want good women but they can read the matrix and so don't try until they find a great girl then have no chance because they have no experience with a remotely successful relationship. The other side of the Incel community are mgtow and trp guys who just hate the modern woman and enjoy the Incel community memes and banter.

The right should be guiding the no fap community as it once did before sectarian division between Protestants and Catholics were wedged open by kikes and sjws who wanted to kill it. TRP and PUA can't be lead by us but we should be making a pro social argument for behavior in these places and teaching the tricks to our men and boys, they have great advice even for men looking to marry virgins as a virgin, they are a good portal by which to mentor young men looking for masculine guidance. MGTOW men are at the very least busy worker bees looking to improve their lives and ripe for the redpill on Jews and many other things, we should be able to get along and ideologically pollinate them. We should be participating if only to drive kikes out, these communities already lean right across the board rejecting them would be foolish when we need allies and allowing kikes to flourish and defeat whom they perceive as a threat where we could easily fight them back would be a massive failure on our part. The Incel crown aren't great optics but they make good memes and are extraordinarily politically incorrect these aren't men we should discard these are the men we should be fighting for, to help them lift themselves up and pursue a future with more white children.

Lastly I say these groups and what I have described here are the folks who pursued gamergate caused the creation of 8chan, the kickoff for the right wing swing and ultimately the memetic warfare that powered Trump's 2016 election in fact all of the top mods on r/the_donald in the beginning were TRP mods and shit posters and they had it stolen from them because kikes fear an empowered white man who dominates his relationships with womenand can avoid/identify poison women.

TL;DR Make the manosphere far right again.

MGTOW's are men who have thrown off enslavement!

mgtow was a half baked idea to combat pc culture before people could make sense of the nonsense and put words to things. dont attack them bring them under the wing. the quicker we vanquish our enemies the fasterwe shed all these bullshit things we do to combat pc culture

This may be an unpopular comment but here goes.....

The people in my life who have done the most damage to me personally have been the women I have let into my life. 100% of the worst times of my life have involved women. Relationships, sharing a house/apartment. Splitting up.

When was the last time you lost contact with a guy friend because you did not get along?

Same question for women.

Then next after that who cause the most shit in my life? Would be white (always male) bosses.

I have had not personal problems with blacks. I had a couple of run ins with pakis. I have never had a problem with gays. I has a couple of muslim friends, no problem there.

But white women? They have robbed me, lied to me, wasted my time, money, effort and energy. They have tried to stab me. They have tried to gaslight me on multiple occasions.

The last woman I lived with threatened to kill her self if I left her. It took a long time to get her out of my life.

And now OP is telling me that I cannot/should not avoid the race/gender that has fucked me over the most? LOL!

I have been single for around three years now.

I have just had the best couple of years of my adult life. I go where I want when I want. I have never had more money and freedom than I have now. I am having a fucking blast! Yes I still date. but the utter fucking creeps that I meet are fucked in the head and have been corrupted by modern feminism.

If a female uses the word "patriarchy" around me, I am out the door. Fast!

So MGTOW is feminism for men? Or freedom from a total bullshit life?

I would guess OP is married to some bitch he don't like, so he is taking out on the fuckers that escaped that squalid type of life tied to some bitch that just sees you as a way of paying the bills.

When I meet some new woman, I ask me self one question and one question only. What is she bringing to the table?

And 99.9% of the time there is only one answer. Vagina.

Most women have little or no actual personality besides the fact that they have a vagina!

An honest question. When was the last time a woman made you laugh?

When as the last time you had an actual honest to god, good time with a woman? Went for a beer? Hung out? Shot the shit without her getting "upset"?

How many women are single that have their own life? Are not mad feminists? Own their own home and do not have a couple of kids with some guy who is stuck with the bills.

MGTOW?

Call is hat you want but if it means me being free from shitty people in my life, I will take MGTOW over being stuck with a modern woman in my life.

Good job, you fucking played yourself and you are a disgrace to your race.

OK OP. You go ahead and enjoy your life like you seem to be doing.

It's supposed to be like Feminism 1.0 but is portrayed by its opponents to be like Feminism 2.0.

Many are going to oppose what you said because it's hard for them to stop thinking with their genitals.

There is one called Traditional Husbands if they truly want to start a good civilization.

Not quite ; MGTOW men just want to do their own thing, control their own lives, and don’t try to impose their ideas on others, certainly not women; feminists however are all about controlling other people’s lives. That’s a bit of a difference.

Feminism is unbridled frothing hatred for everything male simply for existing.

MGTOW is looking at the quality of women today, the possible outcomes from entering into a relationship, the chances of actually keeping your kids, and saying "fuck that noise".

It's the difference between "I hate all buffets no matter what!" and "Well the buffets used to be good, but now they're all staffed by Kung Flu chinks that raise dogs".

mgtow is about ignoring the attention whoring sluts that try to play the system and financially and mentally ruin men's lives while discussing with other men on how modern day women are complete fucking cumdumpster trash.

op is a retarded boomer who thinks his worthless hippie generation that sucked jew cocks to, "totally make things better maaan!" for his children would somehow work out in the long run. change my mind.

I was thinking recently that feminism is MGTOW for women. Same difference.

What's wrong with that?

Hopefully they will take over society like women have.

I'd rather live in a world run by men.

Most have already bred, idiot. Don't mix up incels with veterans.

just look at the main fags on jewtube pushing it.... it's like a closeted recruitment drive for kike nigger cuck faggots

Well, it's retarded, so in that way, yes.

https://voat.co/v/mgtow/3638791

The guy invited you to argue.

He even made solid arguments for you to work with.

All you've done is engage in false equivalence, shaming, and argument from non-agreed-upon axioms.

I'm interested to see how you fare against him.