When I put up the previous sticky, I said I would listen to pizzagate researchers. After a number of conversations with different longtime users I trust and respect, I have come to the conclusion that the way I handled this -- mainly changing the sidebar without first ensuring there was a consensus for it -- was completely backassward and wrong. Some of you have pointed out concerns with how a Comment Abuse rule could itself be abused. Others supported it -- but were afraid to do so publicly.
What I should have done is explain the problem I see, and engage the whole board in discussing how to address it. I hope you will forgive me for approaching this in the wrong way.
In my nearly three years modding here, I have been repeatedly humbled and deeply encouraged by the level of commitment so many of you have shown to exposing the truth about the evil abuse structure undergirding national and international politics, government, business, media, churches, charities, "health"care and education. Some of you research, many actively spread the word, many more mostly lurk and pray. But all of you have courageously refused to look away from a horror that turned out to be far more dark and pervasive than any of us imagined when we first read about Podesta's handkerchief with a "pizza-related map" on it. Together, we've amassed 33,036 submissions (as of today) which expose this web of filth like no other resource on the planet. It's no wonder there is always one or more people here trying to disrupt, discourage, distract, derail and divide.
Our requirements that contributors take the time to explain how their submissions are pizzagate related, source every major claim with a link that can be vetted, and keep unsourced discussion, disputes about moderation and other meta material in v/pizzagatemods or v/pizzagatewhatever, while somewhat of a pain for both users and mods, has resulted in strong content and a board that runs well much of the time.
It has forced those here to screw with us to go to great lengths to complete their mission. By and large, they have to create legitimate-seeming alts by submitting research exposing elite pedos or posing as advocates for other users before they attempt to run their divide-discourage-defame operation. The only place they can even get away with doing that is in the Comments because we were told by ProtectVoat we could not touch comments.
There is a whole story here going back to the banning of this subverse from Reddit, the herding of researchers to this subverse and the purging of all original moderators that I might get into when I have more time. But suffice it to say, that what ProtectVoat claims is not, actually, true. There is no Voat rule that says subverses that are not System subverses (such as v/whatever, v/news, v/funny etc.) cannot make rules or policies regarding Comments or remove those who are only there to disrupt. It has been done occasionally to deal with egregious "comment spammers" both locally and Voatwide". Here's how the Voat User Agreement FAQ puts it:
Each subverse has its own rules which are usually stated in the respective subverse's sidebar. If you ignore said rules, your account may be banned from submitting further content to the subverse or in some cases, globally.
We have a situation here in v/pizzagate in which anyone who wants to "ignore said rules" to attempt to sow division, stir up drama, or push unsupported disinfo can simply do so by using other people's submissions' Comment section. I'm not talking about normal discussion. I'm talking about exactly what we've always banned users for: a pattern of repeated disregard for subverse rules like Rule 4. I have always used an approach where the pattern is documented and the user warned before losing their posting privileges, so that no one gets shut down simply because they were having a bad day, or got discouraged about the subject matter, had a few drinks and vented, or whatever. So:
- Do you want to add a general warning to the sidebar that a pattern of repeated disregard for subverse rules may lead to a ban, and take it on a case by case basis when this becomes a problem in Comments?
- Or is that a terrible idea that ought to be completely scrapped, and we should continue to only respond to egregious disruptors with challenges in comments and/or informative stickies?
- Do you want a more limited version of #1, such as mods only be able to ban users for repeatedly using Comments to subvert Rule 4 instead of making a submission in the appropriate subverse?
I want this sub to run fairly and smoothly, with maximum effectiveness. I think the time is coming soon, in the run-up to 2020, when we will have unprecedented opportunities to share our research and make a public impact. With that, we can expect to be thwarted even worse than we have been so far. I want us to be ready!
Pizzagate contributors, please comment below and share your thoughts, or any others you might have.
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ESOTERICshade ago
The wicked witch is dead. Praise God.
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
This is not a good thing, you are wrong. Again. Boring.
ESOTERICshade ago
@crensch ran off the most interesting posters. Crensch is a boring topic. Not much material to work with....lol
shewhomustbeobeyed ago
You still don't understand, ES. IDK, maybe it's because I'm an emotional female, but I cannot rejoice at people leaving this community. We've lost so much already. The fact that none of you seem to have any empathy for others who disagree, well it makes me sad. I can't seem to find any reasons to celebrate.
ESOTERICshade ago
This is not a loss it is a huge victory for v/pizzagate. crensch is responsible for a lot of that "loss" you speak of. Nothing says "welcome to pizzagate" like an asshole wading into a group of Christian researchers and shouting "fuck off you cum guzzling cunt."
Its not the disagreement that bothered me. It was the fact that this asshole used this platform as a source of his narcissistic supply and did much damage in the process. He has alienated the best people we ever had.
I can. Fuck his narcissistic destructive ass.
kestrel9 ago
I stopped posting on PG for a long time because of YOU.
Having you here is a loss for PG. You knew I wasn't crensch and sat back and watched as your friend White Ronin stalked me all over voat (claiming I was crensch), stalked even old posts of mine, saying that crensch and I licked srayzie's shit of her dad's dick when she was ten years old after he raped her. You are a complete piece of shit ES. Sweet talking srayzie as if you aren't a complete fucking loser. Acting like you know everything. Fuck you.
@crensch @vindicator
ESOTERICshade ago
I'm not responsible for WhiteRonin's behavior. He is his own person. How was I supposed to stop him from pestering you? Everybody that was paying attention knew that you were not crensch. What were we supposed to do about it? WhiteRonin was a one man tornado and that is not my fault.
And I did defend you against him once in a BeatlesTrollArmy thread. He was calling you another user (not crensch) and I told him you were not that user. You even thanked me for it.
I have some PMs I can show you that will change your mind on that one. Totally.
kestrel9 ago
What are the seeds you said you planted in GA, as you sided with White Ronin and others crusade against GA? Maybe some alts that would lie in wait until people trusted the user names? You brought it up in a context of underhandedly alluding to planning to sabotage GA in some way. Why don't you think the users there should be allowed to operate without subversion such as that? Why do you interfere so much on information is applicable to both PG and GA? Why don't you care to admit that from the influx of GA supporters to voat, PG received a lot of exposure, an increase in subscribers and leads in some topics that would very likely have been missed, or taken much longer to discover? One doesn't need support Q or Trump to concede those things. What consensus was ever offered to PG users to elect you as defacto owner of the board, as arbitror of what people should or shouldn't be discussing on here?
ESOTERICshade ago
You miserstood my intentions. If the Qberts want to swim in the Q PSYOP, waste their time, and spread disinformation, let them have at it. I don't care.
v/pizzagate was sacred ground as far as i'm concerned and I don't want that pollution, confusion, and disinformation mixed with pizzagate. We had enough problems attempting to convince people that pizzagate was real without mixing it with a PSYOP.
inb4
"you don't know if Q is a psyop or not."......Yes I do. One of the Qberts most famous one liners is "Q said some disinformation is necessary." By definition that is a PSYOP and it has not place in pizzagate. Zero, none.
kestrel9 ago
I'm referring to topics that cross the desks of both subs. I don't expect PG to be GA 2, or expect people here to support GA or Trump. I don't expect them to drive out Trump supporters or Q supporters either. Your approach throws away the baby with the bathwater in some instances, and within all the discussion of censorship going on now, why doesn't the talk of driving out any mention of info within Qdrops on PG (on PG topics) get the same concern over censorship issues? Since when do you own PG? Who approved you as guard dog? Why did you revert back to that stance after confessing Q was real to srayzie and offered to lead the charge to help out on GA?
ESOTERICshade ago
I'm pretty sure I never told srayzie that Q was real because I never believed that it was real. I did tell her I would help her find some interesting topics to post to V/GA that were not Q related. I used to send her articles and topics to post at V/GA that were not Q related because I wanted to help her diversify the subject matter in her sub. THIS NOTION THAT I HATED SRAYZIE AND TRIED TO DRIVE HER AWAY FROM V/PIZZAGATE IS A DAMN FANTASY THAT @VINDICATOR MADE UP IN HIS OWN MIND.
I was nice to her. I didn't want her gone from pizzagate. We remained friends (or so I thought) long after she got involved with Q. I just didn't want vindicator's vision of v/pizzqanon to happen to pizzagate. What I didn't realize was that she was brainwashed by the Qanon phenom that she actually thought I might be a "government agent" because I didn't believe in Qanon. (eyeroll...facepalm) I think @vindicator was brainwashed enough by Q that he suspected I was a government agent too.
If a Q topic was pizzagate related I usually didn't complain if it showed up in v/pizzagate. The war got started early when vindicator practically tried to make v/pizzagate the new Q headquarters when Q got kicked out of Redditt. I saw the hand writing on the wall that this would be a death blow for pizzagate.
kestrel9 ago
It just occurred to me how I'm noticing that you have a lot to say about how things should be run on PG as a "NOT Q or GA" sub, but not much to contribute to the board's subject matter itself. Your last submission was https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2761771 (a year ago). So much of your commentary is about you saving PG from Q talk, but srayzie created GA over a year and a half ago. There's an entire sticky about you on PG for whatever--the point is that it's all about you for better or worse. I think the shadow you are casting on PG is empty and a distraction. Maybe if you started to contribute you'd eventually fill the gap between your self perceived support of PG and what you actually do here.
ESOTERICshade ago
Contributing to pizzagate used to be my favorite activity. I stopped being a contributor and started being an activist to preserve and save pizzagate for posterity. Fighting for pizzagate's survival took all the fun out of pizzagate for me bro.
Pizzagate would not still be here in it's pure form if I had not turned into an activist to save it's life and that is a FACT. Somebody had to do it. It burned me out on pizzagate for the time being.
I usually don't say anything about all this bullshit anymore unless I am responding to the non stop slander and slurs thrown out by crensch and vindicator. And usually I don't respond to those.
If vindicator had balls he could have just said "yeah, mixing Q and pizzagate in the same sub was not a good idea. My bad...." and we could have all just rolled on with the program. He still has not gotten over it and I don't think he ever will. crensch doesn't matter anymore.
kestrel9 ago
You've given the impression that your opinion holds more weight than others, and because you are so vocal you suck oxygen out of the room imho. That would be one thing if you contributed to the research, but you gave that up. You currently don't know how PG would be without your crusade for purity. Are you still staying here to police people's political opinions and vet Q supporters? Do you still see yourself as the only one that makes "true" PG research possible? Can it exist without you here? (not saying leave, wondering about your opinion of your role here now). In other words, are you acting or intending to continue to act as the gatekeeper of content and contributors now that crensch has left?
ESOTERICshade ago
I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. My "looming presence" over pizzagate is a sticky from crensch. That means in reality crensch is the one looming over pizzagate. That billboard of butt hurt is crensch's.
That was never my goal. crensch and vindicator are the people that pick out a few targets from the crowd and use those targets to justify their driving need for censorship. Both vindicator and crensch are just itching to get into the "banning for comments" business. crensch is already there. https://voat.co/v/whatever/3464558#20893506
vindicator didn't succeed in selling the audience with his first sticky that he should be allowed to censor free speech so he made himself another sticky to persuade people that he should be allowed to censor free speech. If I don't like it I have every right to voice my opinion just like you are voicing yours now. See?
Never saw myself that way. I see myself as a person that had a huge impact in keeping pizzagate from becoming a bastardized hybrid of Q and pizzagate, because its true, and i'm not ashamed of it.
Sure it can but it would require the mods to stop trying to pollute it with shit like Qanon and stop trying to censor free speech.
Observer mainly. And I don't do that as much as I used to.
I was never a gatekeeper of content. I saw something dangerous to pizzagate and I voiced my opinion, regularly.
I don't appreciate @vindicator becoming infected with crensch's zeal for censorship, and his earnest desire to gain control over the comments, and I said so. I might speak about it again. Who knows?
kestrel9 ago
The reason I mentioned your intentions about "acting as gatekeeper of content" is because a couple months ago you had said that you had done so on voat in regards to how people determine information as acceptable or not acceptable (based on the messenger). (https://voat.co/v/news/3369950/20054396/10#20054396
In response to this statement: "Anyone who tries to turn you away from information should be suspect and immediately make you want to find the information they are trying to turn you away from."
One of the things you said was:
Aside from you views of "Qtards" were you acting then, as PG's arbiter of truth (even though you don't do research?) when it came to shared areas of research?. Could your role be accurately described as a 'citizen mod' by a set of rules made up by you?
The OP was trying to make several points, one was conveying the idea that a lot of research has been done as a result of the appearance of the Q.
You also said:
Does this opinion of yours warrant driving researchers off of PG if they do find useful info that is not fantasy, cognitive bias, total disinfo and parroting MSM? Are you the one who decides how to construe info when it comes to connecting dots? Does reading multiple sources of info ever end up revealing surprising bits of info that is important but easily overlooked? (since you don't research let me answer that last one as a yes).
If you are not researching, how can you claim to know when info (not political alliance) is important to exposing the cabal, regardless of who finds it?
ESOTERICshade ago
Actually I do have something good to say about the Q movement believe it or not. Even though I don't consider what they do "research" I have noticed that the collective I.Q. of the Q movement has gone up a few points since "Qanon" stopped posting.
They are starting to think for themselves instead of waiting on "Qanon" (Coleman Rogers/Patriot Soapbox) to throw out three or four meaningless phrases and making up fantasies about what it might mean until they come up with one they want to believe the most.
They are slowly starting to use their own brain. It is encouraging.
ESOTERICshade ago
Look dude, i'm not gonna go back and forth with you all night. I explained my reasoning for not wanting v/pizzagate to become the landing pad for the Q movement when it got kicked off Redditt. I think my reasoning is sound.
You are free to disagree.