Here's a thought..
On reddit, the shills use a discord chat server to plan and plot their strategies. They also all have tons of alternate accounts, and they have spent the last year (at least) infiltrating all of the major online conspiracy community/truth movement related forums.
If they are using these attacks to SUPPRESS vital information from spreading and reaching the masses, why can't we utilize the same strategies to SPREAD the information, and counter their attacks? This would require the hardcore users here to work as a team effort, taking the fight outside of Voat and onto other platforms where we can reach people.
If we used a discord server or "Kik" or some private means of communicating offline, we could coordinate ways to infiltrate a certain social media platform, the comments section of an article, or forums like GLP, Reddit, ect. The difference being, we would use this simply as a way to even the playing field. We are fighting a losing information battle essentially, because the enemy is well organized and well funded.
Why can't we organize and use their same tactics to help spread rational articles and beginner videos (like the Ben Swann expose') on all of the online media?
This isn't that big of a concept, and it wouldn't be that hard to get started. I think if we branched out and made a few accounts on the various forums and used a chat server, we could coordinate ways to start fighting back, systematically discrediting shills, pointing out false information and eventually pushing ahead in this information battle.
Here's a video documenting some of the coordinated attacks by shills on internet users.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53qYAWE8_kE
I too was a victim of this.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2323758
PM me if interested or contribute below, especially if you have any ideas on how to best remain anonymous during this.
followthemoney ago
You don't have to infiltrate them, you just have to not believe them.
You can also set up automated social media engagement, like they do. Check out /u/SpecialAgentRando on plebbit.
Since the propaganda machine has no empathy, it is, essentially, an NPD personality and acts accordingly. When interacting with shills, just use the rules of interacting with NPD's.
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/7pje8n/neutralizing_the_poison/
Rule No. 4: Be polite. Politeness is its own reward and it is your best weapon. The longer you are steadfastly polite, the more a person’s negative overtones become obvious to themselves and the people around them. Never give the appearance of being the hostile party.
Rule No. 4: Ban sarcasm. This is more difficult than I thought it would be, but it comes naturally, now. Sarcasm is just going to be used against you and make you look like the jerk. Especially in writing. If something can be read either way, specify that it is an honest question.
Rule No. 6: Keep everything “court safe.” This means that you should expect a judge to look over every email and text message and have secretly recorded conversations. An imaginary judge. This judge is looking for the hostile party. You are allowed to be angry. You are allowed to have your feelings and act upon those feelings. Just don’t show those feelings to anyone who isn’t safe or anyone who doesn’t understand how and why you have to protect yourself.
As far as real recordings, I recommend hunting cameras that are triggered by motion activation and always having a device around, like a smart phone, that is capable of taking pictures, recording sound and recording video. Know your local laws about recording people.
Now that you know the ground rules, here are your three tactics that you should employ in every exchange:
Tactic No. 1: Telegraph the behavior. You can often predict the problem person’s behavior. Simply by telling them you are concerned they are about to commit that behavior creates a trap for them. You’ll get better at predicting when you practice, but with no alternative you can also just explain past behavior in general terms, so that it doesn’t repeat. Generally, don’t use any jargon. Keep it simple.
“I’m afraid you are using your inheritance as a carrot to make me do things that I don’t want to do.”
“I’m concerned you are having secret conversations that are being used to undermine me.”
“Is there a chance you are going to play the victim card if I spell out some of your hurtful behavior?”
Tactic No. 2: Reverse Triangulate This merely means you bring as many sets of eyes in against your problem person as possible. This simply means telling your problem person’s “flying monkeys” or “harem” about the behavior without using jargon before the behavior happens so that the credibility of the rumors against you begin to slowly deteriorate.
By including people in the conversations and always being consistently polite, non sarcastic and “above” secret conversations, the extra set of eyes force a person to censor themselves. You can even use imaginary eyes like your “journal” or a psychiatrist that doesn’t exist.
(I have a fake psychiatrist, btw, that I use. This psychiatrist believes in, first, controlling your own reactions to bad behavior and then using truth, honesty and positivity to counteract dishonesty and negativity.)
If you are caught in conversation, often use “Person A says...” and “Person B thinks...” where the problem person is now forced to go through the extra cognitive effort to work around these other people’s points of view. It also allows you not to attach yourself to good ideas so that they will be discredited. Bonus points if you can attach a person you don’t like to an idea you do like while hinting you don’t like the idea.
Tactic No. 3: Seek justification. Just make this a habit. “I’m confused, can you explain that?” “I understand you are upset, but I don’t understand why?”
When ancient history gets drudged up, use, “I know, that was a long time ago, but what is going on with you RIGHT NOW that is making you feel that way?”
You’re never going to get justification. Or, you might, but that isn’t the purpose. The true narcissist can control their behavior. That’s what is most cruel about them. They know what they are doing. By investing minimal creativity into asking justification in different ways, the cognitive effort your problem person expends is exponentially greater. Don’t get caught up demanding explanations. Don’t even consider the explanation you do get to be truthful. Just ask for it.
Honeybee_ ago
Haha 4 shills downvoted this... also, I'm with @Vindicator, chats are ticking DoxxBombs waiting to happen.
Vindicator ago
@djklbd, I'm going to go ahead and give this thread a "Potential Security Risk" flair based on the comments and my own concerns. People need to think carefully and make sure they have good opsec in place.
bernitdown ago
This is probably one of the methods to control it.
Vindicator ago
I don't want to pee on the parade, but folks should know that back in Nov/Dec of '16, people were encouraged by certain users to go to Discord chats, in which they felt more free to talk in a more "private" environment, and those conversations resulted in the doxing of many researchers, including if I recall correctly, @PleadingtheYiff and many of the original r/pizzagate mods (who ended up creating Disobedient Media as a result). Just be careful out there. :-)
If a shill gets into your chatroom, you can have your supposedly secure conversation and plan screencapped and outted -- making you look like an (((extremist alt-right hate group))) or (((Russian bots))) conspiring to push a fake narrative. Just something to keep in mind. LARPing with alts and other types of subterfuge undermines the validity of your message.
I regularly spread the goodies that pop up here via Twitter. I definitely think some publicity campaigns are in order. However, it is not true that we are fighting a losing information battle. We are going stronger than ever, as every tweet by John Podesta reveals. We are decentralized and thus much more difficult to influence. And they have tried and failed repeatedly to suppress the evidence we have so carefully gathered and protected.
@GreenDell144 @Shizy @13Buddha @Blacksmith21
Shizy ago
Thank you!
djklbd ago
If you check out my post history, I too was doxxed by Media Matters shills, so I'm aware of their bullshit.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2323758
We have a screening process before we let anyone into the chat, and I made it clear no sharing of any personal information, for everyone's safety.
Thats why I've taken measures to assure this doesn't happen. I archive everything related to the creation of this group, for our safety. I wouldn't call it "Larping with Alts", but yes, I am condoning the use of alt accounts. Is this not what the shills do? Why is it accepted to be ok for them to implement these tactics, but not for us?
That's essentially what I'm proposing.
GreenDell144 ago
Thanks for the wake up. Everything you said is true. I am considering giving some of this a shot, simply as a means of spreading to other platforms and giving truth. Weird plots to plant stink bombs in NAMBLA headquarters or whatever... that’s just dumb. Thanks for the voice of reason.
Blacksmith21 ago
I would strongly advise against any form of chat for both technical security, as well as doxxing. Chat rooms bring out the worst in people. There are no do-overs in chat. 100% agree @Vindicator. No chat.
Nunquam-Dormio ago
I imagine these sorts of techniques are what you're wanting: https://whowhatwhy.org/2016/01/27/disinformation-part-1-how-trolls-control-an-internet-forum/
Right?
djklbd ago
No, because we don't necessarily want to control a forum, we just want to use some more man power, and organization to get the truth out.
If we can properly identify a user who has the patterns of a disinformation agent, we can also call them out and discredit them. Do they not use the same tactics on us? I don't see a problem with this.
For this to work, we need to maintain a 100% non partisan appeal, or else it will all be seen as some political bullshit to the people reading.
pizza-party-pooper-2 ago
I'm interested. Let me know what I need to do.
Cc1914 ago
We may not have resources, but we have NUMBERS !
Blacksmith21 ago
Q1: What is a "discord"?
Q2: Why can't mods just delete obvious shit/shill posts which don't conform to the sub rules?
djklbd ago
Q1: Discord is an app where you can chat privately. It's what the shills use to strategize and plan their attacks to suppress information on Pizzagate.
Q2: What rules are we breaking here? What do you suggest we do to wake people up en masse? I'm tired of being drowned out by paid infiltrators. I have a full plan for what I'm suggesting, and I've already set up a server for us.
Perhaps it's time to fight fire with fire?
Blacksmith21 ago
I'm speaking specifically about Voat. We have submission rules here at Voat which weed out a lot of shills. Mods are given latitude to let good info through which may not conform, but can impose standards, as needed, for shitposts.
It's a fine art. Custodes vero.
SpiceTrader ago
Excellent idea, I PM'd you. Lets get started, I have some ideas myself.
GreenDell144 ago
I think this is brilliant. Sign me up. Where is a good place ti start?
13Buddha ago
Same here.
djklbd ago
PM me if interested.
djklbd ago
Anybody have an intricate knowledge of all of the forums/subs online where discussion of PG and the global crime syndicate take place?
Here are a few main ones I am aware of.
www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy
www.reddit.com/r/conspiracyundone
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/
http://www.theblackvault.com/community/forum/
Then there are also forums out there where pizzagate discussion has yet to take place, but the audience may be open to hearing about the information.
www.grasscity.com
http://www.topix.com/forum/hobbies/conspiracy-theory
ThePuppetShow ago
The shills hit Disqus pretty hard, it's the main comment app for news websites.
djklbd ago
How so? It's just a chat app. Actually it's mainly used by video gamers.
ThePuppetShow ago
Not Discord.. Disqus. I was just trying to help you find a better place to inform. You can sign up for 1 disqus account and it will cover the comment section of most major news sites. The shills hit it hard with their propaganda.
Shizy ago
I read comments on various news sites that allow comments and I see a lot of pizzagate comments dispursed here and there. It may be worthwhile to include those as well...
InnocentAngels ago
Same here. The Hollywood Reporter had LOTS of comments on pedogate/pizzagate on the article about the billboards. It was great!
djklbd ago
Absolutely, that's why once we get a decent portion of people on the discord, we can link to those articles, come up with a plan, and post on them.
For example, I could stage a comment saying Pizzagate is fake news on one of those news site articles or a forum thread. Someone else from our discord chat could then present a bunch of evidence that changes my mind, and I'll admit there is substance to the investigation in the comments. Nobody will know that it's a coordinated anecdote, that we planned out. Some may call this method of reaching people "disingenuous", but keep in mind our enemy uses the same tactics to hide and suppress the information.
There's tons of different strategies/ways to approach this and to turn the public's opinion. The paid shills use these same tactics to shut us up and control the narrative.
FuckYourSafespace ago
Victory by any means necessary. Given the topic at hand, I'd say a little theater is perfectly justified.
GreenDell144 ago
Ok. I will try to join a couple of these.
djklbd ago
PM me when you get a chance. I'm working on the discord chat right now. We can make accounts, go from there, and come up with a strategy.
For obvious reasons, I'm not going to share the discord publicly here on this thread, because the shills will try and infiltrate.
Immelda ago
I'm not hardcore but will do what i can!
think- ago
Could you elaborate please? What vital information are suppressed from spreading?
djklbd ago
Why are you here? To discuss and spread the word of elite pedophilia, correct?
I thought it was obvious to every user here, that there is a massive campaign of shills trying to stop us from doing so.
The MSM deemed our investigation "fake news". That's called "suppression of information"
think- ago
It is obvious, indeed. But my emphasis would be on 'trying to stop us'.
I can't see at present that they were successful. (Referring to our work, not how the MSM portray it.)
Therefore I asked 'what vital information is suppressed' [by the shills in the forum], I didn't question that they try, this is obvious for all of us.
djklbd ago
I think their MO is to hammer away at the legitimacy of the investigation, so no outsiders start poking around.
-Branding it a partisan-right witch hunt
-Politicizing it
-Making false claims (PG researchers think Hillary Clinton is running a sex dungeon and eating babies in a pizza parlor basement)
-Using gatkeepers and plants like Alex Jones to sabotage our work
carmencita ago
UPVOAT!!! To The Top. I agree. I am not a techie so I will stand by and listen to those more experienced in soc. media than I. Will chime in later. Thanks for bringing this up.
Shizy ago
Same here. I'm not too tech savvy and don't have a lot of spare time, but I am mouthy and would be happy to chime in if my help is needed 😁
GreenDell144 ago
This is literally the only place that I comment on, apart from msybe two comments I made on two different youtube vids.
djklbd ago
Which is exactly why we need to branch out and get the message out. We need to hold our ground here, but It's either that, or remain in the echo chamber.
Shizy ago
Me too. I did make a twitter account after the Vegas shooting initially to retweet and call out the sheriff. Now I mainly use it to try and combat the idiot lefties who want to use their flawed emotional logic to impede on my rights. I keep trying to get myself banned, but I don't think I'm followed or important enough for twitter to care about what I say 😂
UnicornAndSparkles ago
I’ve heard Pepe triggers them blocking 😂
carmencita ago
Me too. I had posted on reddit but not for over a year now maybe longer.
13Buddha ago
I 3rd that, but I posted 1× on Steemit several months ago.
carmencita ago
Steemit, imo, has been pretty good to us. Quite a few articles actually.
Gothamgirl ago
Unfortunately, I can't have those apps, my device is low memory, but I am more then willing to help anytime. Just get me here, and tell me what and where.
derram ago
https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=53qYAWE8_kE :
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