VieBleu ago

ad hominem arguments are not worth replying to.

Are_we_sure ago

This is absolute dishonesty.>-Doctor that gave testimony of physical evidence of 3 year old girl's vaginal rape went to a conference and learned that what he saw wasn't what he saw - there are new styles of vagina now.

No. What he saw didn't change. He learned he didn't understand what he saw. What he thought were lacerations were normally occurring and no evidence of abuse.

The case against the couple began falling apart in 2013, when the only physical evidence of sexual assault was acknowledged as a mistake made by a young doctor with little experience examining young children for abuse.

Dr. Michael Mouw, an emergency room physician who examined the 3-year-old girl in 1991 on the night she first accused Dan Keller of abuse, was a key witness at the Kellers’ trial, testifying that he found two tears and a fissure in the girl’s hymen.

Mouw recanted, acknowledging that what he had identified as tears were instead normal variations in pediatric hymens – information he learned years later at a medical seminar.

Here's his affidavit.

-The case has all the hallmarks of what we are investigating every day - "The Kellers had sacrificed babies; they held ceremonies in a local graveyard; they put blood in the children’s Kool-Aid; Fran cut off the arm of a gorilla in a local park; they flew the children to Mexico to be sexually assaulted by military officials."

Exactly. The case was built on fantasies that everyone knew couldn't occur, but they thought it must mean something. Here's the affidavit of the cemetary caretaker disavowing the charges that they dug up graves and had the children carry the bones back to the school. https://www.austinchronicle.com/media/content/1399221/3._affidavit_of_francis_batla.pdf

Good Lord, so they were flying the kids to Mexico? and nobody noticed? They cut the arm off a gorilla and nobody noticed? Seriously? The park you mention is Zilker Park home to Austin Nature & Science Center which is like a zoo. Do you seriously think they were able to cut off the arm of a gorilla in a zoo and nobody noticed?

Why do you believe this?

There are two big pieces of evidence in the Kellers favor.

One, this was a drop-in-daycare center. People could and did come by at all hours to drop off, pick up their kids. If you needed someone to watch your kid for just two hours, you could do it here. How do you fly kids to Mexico with nobody noticing? How do kids not tell you about their plane ride until months later. The first thing they would tell you when you picked them up was "Mommy we got to ride in a plane today!"

Two. The girl had the center of this case was already seeing a therapist for severe behavioral problems BEFORE she ever came to the daycare. She bit her mother and tried to stick fork in the dog. This included acting out sexually. She was ALREADY inserting things inside herself BEFORE she came to the daycare https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2009-03-27/believing-the-children/

A Troubled Child

By all accounts, before she ever spent a moment at the Kellers, Christina was a troubled child. In the summer of 1991, her parents, Rick and Suzanne, were embroiled in a bitter divorce, marked in part, recalls Rick, by accusations that he had been abusive toward his wife and toddler daughter. "We were both evaluated, and [Suzanne] came out as passive-aggressive, and I was a dumbshit with an average IQ," he says. But Suzanne "got to court first and said I was abusive and all that stuff." (Suzanne Guinne, now Stratton, did not respond to phone calls or e-mail requesting an interview for this story; Christina Chaviers did not respond to similar requests.) Guinne, an interior designer, told the court that the reason she sought day care for Christina was so she'd have a place to take her daughter while she ran errands related to the divorce – to court, to see her lawyer, to attend counseling. Christina attended Fran's Day Care no more than 13 times; prior to that year, she had rarely been away from her mother's side. At the same time she began dropping Christina off for day care at the Kellers, in May 1991, Guinne began taking her daughter to see David-Campbell.

According to the therapist's testimony at the Kellers' trial, Christina's behaviors were among the worst she'd ever seen. Christina had been "acting out" for months, she said, long before the child began going to Fran's Day Care. She was violent toward her mother and often bit her; she once tried to jump out of a moving car; she was behaving like a dog, eating and drinking from a bowl and defecating in the back yard; she once tried to stab the family's dog with a fork. She was inserting toys into her vagina – mostly marbles and crayons – and she was already using rough language, including the phrase "butt fuck." Whether David-Campbell was able to identify the cause of Christina's behavioral issues or whether her behavior improved with therapy isn't clear. (David-Campbell told the court that, by the end of 1992, she'd seen Christina roughly 150 times and that Christina's behaviors would wax and wane.) But as the summer of 1991 wore on, she said, Christina's behaviors were definitely getting worse.

VieBleu ago

Thank for weighing in. Certainly at times people are wrongly convicted and old cases are rightfully overturned.

If you are willing to assert an obvious confirmation bias by using the phrase "everyone knew couldn't occur", I am willing to match you and say that creating a shiny brand new "Conviction Integrity Unit" and immediately overturning a case of "Satanic Panic" as first order of business falls into the category of Leonard Cohen's sentiment in his song "Everybody Knows" - everybody knows what is going on here.

I don't care to debate in a lawyerly fashion the various merits and demerits of this case. If you would like to pay me to do so fine, otherwise no.

I am fine with letting anyone who reads this determine for themselves if they think justice has been served in either direction. There are always extenuating factors that may be at play such as threats, coersion, blackmail, witness tampering, evidence tampering, pressures placed through professional channels and so on, to overturn an old, cold case and achieve the goal of discrediting the Satanic Panic 2.0.

My contention is that if pedogate is an evil perpetuated by the establishment, the establishment has an interest in changing the narrative around convictions involving satanic abuse, promoting the phrase "Satanic Panic" in much the same way the word "conspiracy" has been promoted negatively by the CIA, smearing victims/survivors, and otherwise abusing, mocking, denigrating and overturning evidence of enfranchised wrongdoing.

If you do not find any merit in this point of view for personal or professional reasons, so be it.

DerivaUK ago

So very eloquently put, Sir. A hundred up voats.

VieBleu ago

Thank you - much appreciated.

I still cannot find this original post anywhere in the HOT section, going pages and pages back. Really weird and clumsy.

Criticalthinker615 ago

Wow. I can't see how no one in local gov cant see a problem with allowing a DA to overturn old cases that they did not prosecute without a new trial

Are_we_sure ago

That's because District Attorneys are supposed to work on behalf of justice. Innocent people serving time for crimes they didn't commit is not justice.

Criticalthinker615 ago

he didn't prove that anyone was innocent. just waved his magic pen and charges disappear. that does not follow our ideals of 'checks and balances' democracy does it?

Are_we_sure ago

I wasn't speaking about any specific case. I speaking to the principle behind your question. Why can district attorney do this? Because in the US we are innocent until proven guilty. There have been many, many cases of genuine innocent people convicted and serving long sentences.

If a sentence is vacated or new evidence comes to light, a District Attorney can evaluate the case again. In the case of a vacated sentence, they have to decide if they want to have a new trial and if they have enough evidence to win that trial.

Let me turn your question around, if a person was convicted 15 years ago and we learn that case had official misconduct, like the police faked a confidential informant or the prosecution withheld evidence from the defense, would we want current officials to cover up for prior corrupt officials or act like they couldn't do anything.

You don't have "to prove anyone is innocent" to let them go. You have to prove they are guilty in order to take their freedom away.

EDIT: Now looking at the details of this case

Nearly two years after the state’s highest criminal court overturned the child sexual abuse convictions for day care owners Dan and Fran Keller.

So they had their trial. They were convicted and upon appeal that conviction was overturned. So to say they didn't have a trial is false. Once they were overturned they are again presumed innocent. And the reason the case was overturned was the medical evidence against them was false. The doctor now admits he got it wrong.

Michael Mouw, the doctor whose testimony helped convict the Kellers, said in an affidavit presented to court this year that he had little training at the time on how to examine sexual abuse in children and came to the wrong conclusions in examining a child in the Keller case.

"While my testimony was based on a good faith belief at that time, I now realize my conclusion is not scientifically or medically valid, and that I was mistaken," he said in the affidavit, which was obtained by Reuters

The question before this new District Attorney was whether or not to have the new trial. So she reviewed the trial transcripts in the light of this new evidence: that the physical evidence of sexual assault was FLAT-OUT FALSE. What the doctor observed was actually a common variation of they hymen. And during that review, she realized that not only could the state not win a new trial, there was likely no crime at the center of this. And in this situation, it met the standards for Legally Innocent, that is, they are not getting off on a technicality. The legal system has not reason to believe they are anything, but innocent.

Criticalthinker615 ago

wow. just wow...obviously someone has an ax to grind

VieBleu ago

They really jumped on this one didn't they - I find when the Satanic element is brought to the fore in a rational format, our lovely tax funded CIA agents feel the need to actually go to work.

So nice to know they are out there looking out for us, protecting rational discourse on our behalf.

Notice too that this post got buried out of the HOT section, where it should rightfully still be on at least the second page at this point in time.

Blacksmith21 ago

This has been happening a lot lately. I have one post that leveled out at 7 upvoats, but 40+ comments. It was a total shill attack. People need to start looking at NEW.

VieBleu ago

what was the post?

Maybe you should repost it like I did, pointing out the attack. Make a nice companion to my post.

Blacksmith21 ago

My favorite interaction:

" Blacksmith21 [S] 0 points (+1|-1) 2 days ago

Dude....give it up. It isn't working anymore. Go enjoy your weekend or whatever it is vermin like you do for fun.

permalink parent save edit delete reply report 

[–] DonKeyhote -2 points (+1|-3) 2 days ago

I WILL.

SCREW YOU GUYS

I'M GOING HOME

permalink parent save source reply report"

VieBleu ago

LOL PRICELESS

I love it.

I actually try to humanize them when possible, and try to remember they are just doing a (disgusting) job which they probably actually hate.

HorsieLvr lately has actually been making some amusing cracks.

Blacksmith21 ago

If I had to bet dollars against donuts, these are all 20-somethings (DonkeyHole admitted). They are getting paid just north of 15.00 per hour. Maybe 20.00. It's a 24/7 CrowdStrike operation. They have no idea who their boss is, but most of them are somewhere around the Beltway. There are a few from other locations.

The sad part is I'd bet all of them are carrying 100k+ worth of debt from some overhyped school and at the end of the day what are they doing for a meager living? Lying to people online. You can tell by DonkeyHole's reaction "SCREW YOU GUYS. I'M GOING HOME" - there is defeat in that tone. They know it's over.

Dressage2 ago

Did he own a car? Or take the bus. Hard to stretch $15

VieBleu ago

You get more interesting with every comment : ) - this is a fun line of discussion.

I think they actually also know a great deal of it is true. They see too much - they secretly root for some of us too.
I had a pretty good idea by her comments Vindicator went to a tony school - she sneered at me calling me a mean soroity girl or someting along those lines. Pretty telling.
WeCanHelp is so checked out she answered me under another mod name once, as Sensitive - I confused her by having simultaneous conversations with her under two names. then she said she couldn't believe how many conspiracy theorists were here! Can you imagine how out of it you have to be to be surprised that conspiracy theorists visit a conspiracy thread? Reminds me of the stuck up office chick on "Archer". http://watcharcheronline.com/

How these web developers go along with this is another story - amoral pricks. Think Silicon Valley tv show Satanist guy, Gilllfoil but not nearly as humanized or charming (sarcasm heavy).

Blacksmith21 ago

I guess I need to get caught up with my TV watching. Not. I've watched a few episodes of Archer. It's pretty funny.

The shills here are essentially the "foot soldiers" which get to run ammo out to the guys stuck in the trenches. Well, they are really the losers (the ones that had to sit at their own table at lunch) who get to shovel the shit of parade horses. They are "kids" for lack of a better term. I'd bet over 50% of them were molested themselves.

I doubt they secretly root for us. Look at the queaks in all of the JA/CPP IG pics. Those little skinny jean metrosexual pedofags are the same ones behind the keyboard trolling and shilling us. They are unrepentant. They are fighting for their survival and existence.

They got the brown end of the shit stick when the cards were handed out. Sure, they come from middle class backgrounds, got good grades, but they had to swing the big tuition bills on their own. And now they are in DC, where they are nothing but turd streaks on a commode on Capitol Hill. There are a zillion pointy shoe wearing pajama boys in this city. They have a crap job and are 100 grand or more in debt for student loans.

VieBleu ago

yeah I might have been a little optimistic with the secret rooting thing. ha ha.

Silicon Valley may be worth looking at an episode or two online - it lampoons the overpaid kids running the world so to speak or at least the tech world on the opposite coast. I have seen traces and references to it show up here - these are preening twits and rich nerds who have the overconfidence of youth and not much to put it in check except their own social media and business blow ups which is like life or death to them. I'd guess that Puttitout operates from there, but it is just a guess. The Gillfoil Satanist guy would be their hero. How many practicing Satanists are depicted positively on national tv? Of course, the one that happens to be from techy SV.

Blacksmith21 ago

It was actually two which made me think I was getting some form of "shadowbanning". You look at these and tell me if you think this level of activity, not to mention subject matter warrants making it to HOT. I'm debating making a post calling this BS out. It seems to be happening as of the last week. Or is this a case of me thinking I am more interesting than I actually am?

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1954275

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1956322

VieBleu ago

I think your posts are fine, and I posted a permalink here on your comment about how your post is suspiciuosly wiped from HOT.

i liked the article's discussion of his social media profile being tampered with and disappearing. Is family involved or not? Wish we had a statement. As for his nickname - he appears to have been called Panda, maybe a childhood name? don't know.

No it's the other way around - you are more interesting than you think. I laughed at your salty name calling at the end of post #2.

Blacksmith21 ago

That's not how an American English speaker would write the dedication on a plaque if the deceased's nickname was "Panda". There would have been an "our beloved Panda" or "aka Panda". This was referring to another entity known as "Panda".

Coincidence? Yeah right, what are the odds? [sarcasm intended]

VieBleu ago

I need to look at it all more closely - not up on Mr. Rich's murder lately. You were def shilled hard on that thread.

Check out my EDIT in bold to this post - taunting the backfire. : )

DeathTooMasons ago

Yes, the new DA is the voice of god and ordains it rubbish. This country is an abortionburger.

Tyranny-News-Network ago

Excellent job bringing this to our attention. If you imagine that the establishment has had a hand in managing prosecution of Sexual and ritual abuse, it makes sense they would try to divide us. We now have an extra layer of complexity determining which cases are legitimate.

Unfortunately, the Intercept isn't immune to publishing disinformation and propaganda. Many had hoped they would be. If I'm not mistaken, Matt Taibi was hired by Pierre Omidiar to act as the Chief Editor and promised complete editorial authority based on Matt's proven track record. Matt later complained that Omidiar began micro managing the office, which led Matt to quit. I don't know much history beyond that. My takeaway is to be very leary of what they produce.

But some publications also show signs of having sold out after the fact. Whowhatwhy. Com, Russ Baker's site made a near complete flip right as Trump was elected. Prior to that, Russ was an excellent source of info on the Bush crime family and probably the best on the Boston bombing. They are now Soros funded.

I would also suggest keeping in mind that DAs and prosecutors are often the ones to decide whether a crime had taken place or, almost equally importantly whether they will prosecute.

VieBleu ago

Wasn't it Russ Baker that began to report on the possiblity of Poppy's involvement/and or cover up of the JFK assassination after he asked him routinely in an interview "And where where you when JFK was killed?" -because everyone of that generation had vivid memories of that moment due to the trauma - and Poppy said he couldn't remember...? Yes I used to look at Whowhatwhy, but hadn't looked there in awhile. Thanks for the update.

Matt Taibi has been fairly quiet these days.

The genius and hilarious writing of Barrett Brown in prison publishd on The Intercept was one of the main reasons I visited. He has been thoroughly smashed by the system of course.