Yes, change please, and we need to leave, seriously just a thread on any other forum would be much better than this abusive crap and being totally neglected by mods whose reason has clearly deserted them, even down to doxxing left up. I've never heard of any mods anywhere being fine with doxxing, violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment like they are for this forum.
Anyway upvoted too.
C'mon NO people - looking forward to seeing you : D
being fine with doxxing, violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment like they are for this forum
just because no one wants to adhere to your particular brand of censorship doesn't mean they advocate the opposite
As always, find a post that advocates those things, report it so it can be removed.
If you find a comment that 'doxxes' report it it will be removed.
If you find a comment that advocates "violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment" refute/downvote/ignore/troll - but the standing rules are comments do not get deleted unless they violate a rule.
Yes it can be upsetting for some to read comments that offend their sensibilities, but unfortunately, if we delete commentets that obviously inciting we get branded shills and killing free speech.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
and we need to leave
I was unaware that there were systems in place forcing you to be here......
In this thread, KevDude says "Doxxing is defined as information that is not public or information on a user"
VictorSteinerDavion says this in this thread in a reply to me -
"The current rules are meant to stop people from harassing people, at home or at work. Currently, posting the contact details of a private residence or the details of an individual at a workplace are not permitted."
So is KevDude in charge? Or VSD?
Also, it used to be against the rules to do ANY doxing on this forum, but KevDude evidently rewrote the rules specifically to allow doxing outside of the forum. Why? There used to be a rule against Violence as well, gone. Why?
I am not talking about that old argument about bigotry, hate speech etc...this is specifically about anti-doxxing and anti-violence, the last bastions of a reasonable forum.
considering kevude is not on the mod list, this one falls to me and @crensch
I've stated my position in previous comments and I'll communicate this to crensch so we can re-re-draft a rule to match the standard I have set and expect to be enforced.
For future reference, this rule change will only deal with the topic of editing the rules in regards to publishing information that identifies people, and any posts and comments that advocate, encourage or insinuate physical actions.
I feel a sense of relief that at least this standard is going to be upheld, and I hope you are in the end glad as well- having your standards enforced can only be good for you so I hope you look at my absolute attention to not having this forum degrade into an outpost for harrassment and a tool for false flag shills as ultimately a positive thing.
I appreciate your calm under my fire as well, I suppose I may owe you a personal apology. If you care to have it then it is yours.
Now I have 1 last question - would this comment https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1586134/7736059 be deleted under your dox rules rewrite? - when it was put up it bothered me, because it seems to be asking people to go to a farm, which was doxed just above it at the time in this comment https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1586134/7736894, and poke around, try to get evidence. I didn't report it because the lack of action on the real estate agents comment had a dampening effect on the belief that rules would be enforced. As you said "comments that advocate...physical actions" I'd like to submit this comment for deletion. Actually dangerous statements like this are fairly rare, so I don't think this is going to cause a flood of work for our poor, martyred Crensch.
Sorry, you've lost me there. Not following what you're saying, so I'll respond with my own thoughts, but please clarify your position.
I'm of the mind that the people here need to be responsible for their own NetSec, and only non-public information is considered doxxing, while public info is a freeforall. Not because that's how I want it, but because of the backlash from the older goats that would destroy us for changing it.
because of the backlash from the older goats that would destroy us for changing it.
As an old goat, they can destroy me all they want.
The reason I said public information should be included in the definition is to deal with the case when someone calls for the harassment of "specific individual/group of individuals" at this "public address/number"
Posting public information with the intent to create nuisance and cause harm in the same way people do "SWATTing" is something I don't want this community to be accused of.
Posting of public information as a matter of fact and evidence for the record is safe as it is a simple fact without the threat of violence.
What I'm trying to do is craft a rule that permits the posting of public information as evidence, but removes the problem of people that want to cause violent actions by misusing the ability to post public information.
Allowing for violent actions thought this is a way outside forces can discredit the work done by this community.
As you and I are the owner mods I want to make sure we agree to even make this distinction, and then craft a rule if we do agree.
The reason I said public information should be included in the definition is to deal with the case when someone calls for the harassment of "specific individual/group of individuals" at this "public address/number"
That can be dealt with either by the authorities, the admins, or by having better NetSec. We can't protect everyone, and attempting to do so is a fool's errand.
Posting public information with the intent to create nuisance and cause harm in the same way people do "SWATTing" is something I don't want this community to be accused of.
It's not something the community cares about enough to make a rule, apparently. We just got through having the community discussion on the rules - it's not up to us to change them.
Posting of public information as a matter of fact and evidence for the record is safe as it is a simple fact without the threat of violence.
A threat of violence can be dealt with by police or other authorities.
What I'm trying to do is craft a rule that permits the posting of public information as evidence, but removes the problem of people that want to cause violent actions by misusing the ability to post public information.
That information can be posted anywhere on this site. Restricting it here is just silly.
Allowing for violent actions thought this is a way outside forces can discredit the work done by this community.
You can't operate by making a rule for every way this place can be discredited. They'll just keep bringing up shit for you to make more rules about.
As you and I are the owner mods I want to make sure we agree to even make this distinction, and then craft a rule if we do agree.
I don't. I've taken the bait on this before, ask @kevdude. I thought we needed to craft some rules to protect against violence before when everything was in upheaval. Through the discussions about it we found that it wouldn't work, and just looked like useless virtue signalling.
People are going to use information how they want to use it. Real threats can be dealt with by authorities.
Our job - our only job - is to make this place viable to post investigation information.
Edit:
Sorry, it just occurred to me that this rule would look something like a restriction of guns to prevent violence. (see Chicago and D.C.)
I sent the info to Millen Falcon, Vindicator, gophuckyourself, and wecanhelp
I received replies back over the next hours saying no one could figure out what to do, and gophuckyourself didn't want to "go rogue", and finally that KevDude made the decision to leave that woman's info up under the OP's stated wish to get 100x to call and ask questions daily and "ruin their lives for a bit."
Here is the comment for readers here - " AgainstTheNWO 2 points (+4|-2) 5 days ago
Why, do you not think they know that we know? Calling and talking is free ** I do not understand why it would be a bad idea if 100th keep calling them and ask them questions day in day out. Ruin their lives for a bit.** This can just be a question you ask, record and if there is or is not a answer place on www."
Ball now in your court. Let me guess, I'm wrong, it's all fine. I'm out of line, etc...
This has been going on for days, where are you when you are needed? I have plenty of proof of all of it, I don't waste my time or mods time with BS.
The other day there was a comment left up for HOURS that specifically called for phone harrassment and making life miserable for the real estate agent involved in the podesta email. Her office and phone are available as a public business, but she is a private person, not a politician or restauranteur even. AND the post specifically called for harrassing her and pointed right at her info.
There was a "debate"about it among the mods but ultimately KevDude decided that that woman deserved to have her info up and the call for harrassment comment was never every even addressed. It is all in my PM to mods and my history.
That is just one example ONE. We are sick of your self righteous BS about "just because you don't want people doxxed doesn't mean we shouldn't dox her..or whatever your latest way to put it is... Replying to you -
NO IT IS NOT REMOVED WHEN REPORTED. I provided exact proof. The proof was never disputed by THREE MODS. Vindicator said he tried. and the other one, justsomething or other, wrote and told me he didn't want to go "rogue".
This shit is BS. Stop pretending to have some kind of high road running up your bum.
The rules are no contact details, whether public or otherwise.
We are sick of your self righteous BS about
Proper results require proper conduct. Insults simply reduce my will to help.
Stop pretending to have some kind of high road running up your bum.
You point out that you want harassment etc censored, yet you fall to petty insults.
This does not make me more amenable to your cause.
edit:
where are you when you are needed?
I have many things that demand my attention. Unfortunately I'm not always able to sit on internet forums and monitor them constantly.
The way around that is to message or ping me when things need to be brought to my attention.
The downside is sometimes I won't respond quick enough in some cases, but I will respond.
VSD- Unfortunately, the matter I brought to your attention has not been allowed to rest. KevDude is making it clear to me that once he and Crensch talk to you, everything you decided earlier will change, Those comments weren't harrassment/doxxing, there will be no editing of rules, and what you say are your standards are apparently of no consequence whatsoever according to Kevdude anyway..
This stuff is really ridiculous, confusing and a time waster for all of us. Who is actually in charge of voat pizzagate? Do you have the final say, or is it KevDude - because he comes down on me pretty hard for what you asked me to report to you so that you could "eliminate it immediately", as per your own comment earlier up on this thread.
It is important for all of us to know - does this forum allow doxxing and harrassment like that which I proved earlier after all? and ultimately, who is the authority here?
BTW- KevDude also enjoyed telling me someone should find me and knock out my teeth. Do you really think voat is the place to be for people who actually care about children? Considering the magnitude of what this controversial topic is about, maybe you should entirely rethink bedding down something as polarizing as pizzagate at a place that allows doxxing as most people define it, harrassment, calls for physical action, hate speech, anti-semitism, bigotry and all the rest. Maybe not such a good fit? Please think about it.
I'm being poetic, and describing the facts as well.
What I am talking about is a clear violation of your so called rules by mods. We experience it daily.
I will TAKE THE TIME to get all the background for you, and then I expect that if I do that, there is going to be some kind of recourse to the mod that allowed the doxxing to stay, right? It was a "higher up" that made the determination, and it was KevDude. So Right? What is the recourse? Or are you having me go and prove this to you so you can continue to mock and ignore your own rules?
EDIt: as i recall, they said only doxxing of people on the forum wasn't allowed, is that true? Because if that is true, that's a shit rule. So my links are below.
there is going to be some kind of recourse to the mod that allowed the doxxing to stay, right?
Mods are held to a much higher standard and the first step is pointing out the error and ensuring the mistake is understood.
This will be my first step of 'recourse'.
Repeat violation will result in more stern actions.
Or are you having me go and prove this to you so you can continue to mock and ignore your own rules?
If you want me to help you, be more observant of how your communication may harm your cause.
only doxxing of people on the forum wasn't allowed, is that true?
It's hard to articulate this one, as there are a bunch of annoying edge cases that can be ambiguous.
The current rules are meant to stop people from harassing people, at home or at work.
Currently, posting the contact details of a private residence or the details of an individual at a workplace are not permitted.
But what do we do when someone finds direct evidence of a specific location that is key in the discussion?
That would violate the rule, but also censor the investigation.
It's difficult to delineate between the issues and not fall foul of one problem or another.
Maybe wording like: "Posting the contact details of a private individual are not permitted, Posting the contact details of an individual at a workplace for the purposes of incitement to harass are not permitted."
Posting the street address of a location involved in child trafficking and abuse could be considered 'doxxing' but is possibly also necessary to communicate a link to others investigating.
I'm actually against posting publicly available location information for private individuals as it can often be turned into a method for claiming all kinds of information is 'public' and justifying the actions.
Figuring out this can sometimes take time and be very frustrating.
Please continue to give your input and perspective on this issue as I do feel it needs a concrete, no equivocating statement from the mods.
I will discuss this with @KevDude after reading your links and I will get back to you with the results of that discussion.
ok. I wil say this. I am and have acted out - angry- at you. You probably didn't have any idea it was coming and it felt wrong to you. I understand that. I'm not sorry, but I feel you deserve an explanation. When you are experiencing this stuff it builds up after awhile, then obviously it kind of explodes. Your mods do whatever they want whenever they want and you suddenly showing up acting like a parent who knows what's what seems hypocritical to me. Anyway it may or may not be, Idc. Just giving you context for my reaction.
There are other problems as well. If you genuinely want to clean this place up it is time because you will have an exit on your hands soon. When a place becomes unusable, there is no other choice. The spam nothing posts are not taken down even after numerous calls for it, we don't have more votes than the shills, turns out, so that doesn't work. It's way beyond just that doxxing problem, when I say tolerance of vigilante justice, violence and etc. I am not joking. Did you see that those rules were taken away in the forum rules rewrite? Thanks to KevDude. WTF? why would that ever be taken away from any forum's rules? Anyway, hope you have some understanding of where I am coming from.
KevDude is no longer on the mod list.
There is nothing that can be added to that could be considered recourse.
you suddenly showing up acting like a parent who knows what's what seems hypocritical to me
This is part of the issue I have with my limited time, it can seem like that to the outside observer.
When discussing this with kingkongwaswrong my position was explicitly not one of constant direct involvement. I just don't have the time.
My involvement was to ensure there was no way a take over could happen because I have the ability to de-mod people.
When I am active in the sub my aim is to encourage the community to self manage, as it is the communities responsibility to itself.
I'm not a parent, guide or guardian, I am simply the thin line between those that want to subvert this sub and the community.
you will have an exit on your hands soon.
Then I will know people care more about whatever agenda they have than they do about stopping the pervasive, systematized, commercialized sexual exploitation of children by the elite and powerful of this planet.
If that happens, I will continue my own actions with my own resources, as I have been doing long before this forum existed.
Here is a copy of messages sent to me
1. over hours - this was not a quick - oops mistake decision
2. KevDude was specifically telling the other mods what to do on pizzagate forum
3. the mods promised changes in the rules - no change
4. they try to make the argument that OUR FORUM isn't specific about doxing people outside the forum. Really incredible.
sorry it is not a perfect document, i don't have time to do that for you now. It's all in my PM under my name here anyway.
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 5:59:47 AM
doxxing thread
That would be Kevdude. And he would not let us delete. I will get demodded if I "over-moderate". It's considered censorship. Everything shared was public information, so it's technically not doxing. I tried, though.
reply source delete
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 1:04:36 AM
doxxing thread
We are discussing the appropriate response now. Mods want to take down. Waiting to hear from Voat higher-ups.
reply source delete
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:26:34 AM
doxxing thread
It is going to be getting taken down we're just getting secondary blarg for it as I'm a bit worn out from arguing about the ama thing right now. Wecanhelp will be taking care of it.
reply source delete
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:24:16 AM
doxxing submission
It is not explicit enough, it only mentions doxxing against Voat subscribers. We're probably going to extend that with "or private citizens", and remove the post. I'm waiting for one more confirmation on this. Transparency within the mod team is important, I'm not going to go rogue with this.
reply source delete
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:14:07 AM
doxxing submission
Thanks for these reports, I think you may be onto something with this. I'm actively trying to push some action on this, unfortunately most of our mods are temporarily away right now, and adding to the rules is always a more significant decision where it's best more of us weigh in.
reply source delete
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:13:22 AM
doxxing thread
possible sidebar change incoming adding private citizens to the doxx claus. We want someone else to weigh in before we do so tho.
reply source delete
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:03:13 AM
doxxing submission
We're discussing this right now, and will likely add a word about private citizen in the rules as well as remove either some comments or the entire submission. Give us a few minutes.
reply source delete
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/18/2017 11:53:50 PM
doxxing thread
Let's get down to what is important - KevDude may not be on the mod list but I was told by TWO mods that they couldn't make a decision and had to go to a "higher up". I asked who it was and was specifically told it was KevDude. This was all done on PM and it is in my account.
Now, I really would like an explanation because you mods are allowing this forum to become a place where violence can be fomented, or at least harrassment, and I have the correspondence to prove it, and it is backed up and archived off this site. If you mean well, do not give me the excuse that KevDude is not on a list. What happened that day that is such a fail to your expressed preferences about doxxing?
view the rest of the comments →
VieBleu ago
Yes, change please, and we need to leave, seriously just a thread on any other forum would be much better than this abusive crap and being totally neglected by mods whose reason has clearly deserted them, even down to doxxing left up. I've never heard of any mods anywhere being fine with doxxing, violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment like they are for this forum.
Anyway upvoted too.
C'mon NO people - looking forward to seeing you : D
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Where is this?, I'll remove it immediately
just because no one wants to adhere to your particular brand of censorship doesn't mean they advocate the opposite
As always, find a post that advocates those things, report it so it can be removed.
If you find a comment that 'doxxes' report it it will be removed.
If you find a comment that advocates "violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment" refute/downvote/ignore/troll - but the standing rules are comments do not get deleted unless they violate a rule.
Yes it can be upsetting for some to read comments that offend their sensibilities, but unfortunately, if we delete commentets that obviously inciting we get branded shills and killing free speech.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
I was unaware that there were systems in place forcing you to be here......
VieBleu ago
In this thread, KevDude says "Doxxing is defined as information that is not public or information on a user"
VictorSteinerDavion says this in this thread in a reply to me - "The current rules are meant to stop people from harassing people, at home or at work. Currently, posting the contact details of a private residence or the details of an individual at a workplace are not permitted."
So is KevDude in charge? Or VSD?
Also, it used to be against the rules to do ANY doxing on this forum, but KevDude evidently rewrote the rules specifically to allow doxing outside of the forum. Why? There used to be a rule against Violence as well, gone. Why?
I am not talking about that old argument about bigotry, hate speech etc...this is specifically about anti-doxxing and anti-violence, the last bastions of a reasonable forum.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
considering kevude is not on the mod list, this one falls to me and @crensch
I've stated my position in previous comments and I'll communicate this to crensch so we can re-re-draft a rule to match the standard I have set and expect to be enforced.
For future reference, this rule change will only deal with the topic of editing the rules in regards to publishing information that identifies people, and any posts and comments that advocate, encourage or insinuate physical actions.
VieBleu ago
I feel a sense of relief that at least this standard is going to be upheld, and I hope you are in the end glad as well- having your standards enforced can only be good for you so I hope you look at my absolute attention to not having this forum degrade into an outpost for harrassment and a tool for false flag shills as ultimately a positive thing.
I appreciate your calm under my fire as well, I suppose I may owe you a personal apology. If you care to have it then it is yours.
Now I have 1 last question - would this comment https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1586134/7736059 be deleted under your dox rules rewrite? - when it was put up it bothered me, because it seems to be asking people to go to a farm, which was doxed just above it at the time in this comment https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1586134/7736894, and poke around, try to get evidence. I didn't report it because the lack of action on the real estate agents comment had a dampening effect on the belief that rules would be enforced. As you said "comments that advocate...physical actions" I'd like to submit this comment for deletion. Actually dangerous statements like this are fairly rare, so I don't think this is going to cause a flood of work for our poor, martyred Crensch.
My Regards - VieBleu
Crensch ago
Also, VieBleu is a modhating shitstirrer that I'm more or less disinclined to engage as legitimate.
Crensch ago
Sorry, you've lost me there. Not following what you're saying, so I'll respond with my own thoughts, but please clarify your position.
I'm of the mind that the people here need to be responsible for their own NetSec, and only non-public information is considered doxxing, while public info is a freeforall. Not because that's how I want it, but because of the backlash from the older goats that would destroy us for changing it.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
As an old goat, they can destroy me all they want.
The reason I said public information should be included in the definition is to deal with the case when someone calls for the harassment of "specific individual/group of individuals" at this "public address/number"
Posting public information with the intent to create nuisance and cause harm in the same way people do "SWATTing" is something I don't want this community to be accused of.
Posting of public information as a matter of fact and evidence for the record is safe as it is a simple fact without the threat of violence.
What I'm trying to do is craft a rule that permits the posting of public information as evidence, but removes the problem of people that want to cause violent actions by misusing the ability to post public information.
Allowing for violent actions thought this is a way outside forces can discredit the work done by this community.
As you and I are the owner mods I want to make sure we agree to even make this distinction, and then craft a rule if we do agree.
Crensch ago
That can be dealt with either by the authorities, the admins, or by having better NetSec. We can't protect everyone, and attempting to do so is a fool's errand.
It's not something the community cares about enough to make a rule, apparently. We just got through having the community discussion on the rules - it's not up to us to change them.
A threat of violence can be dealt with by police or other authorities.
That information can be posted anywhere on this site. Restricting it here is just silly.
You can't operate by making a rule for every way this place can be discredited. They'll just keep bringing up shit for you to make more rules about.
I don't. I've taken the bait on this before, ask @kevdude. I thought we needed to craft some rules to protect against violence before when everything was in upheaval. Through the discussions about it we found that it wouldn't work, and just looked like useless virtue signalling.
People are going to use information how they want to use it. Real threats can be dealt with by authorities.
Our job - our only job - is to make this place viable to post investigation information.
Edit:
Sorry, it just occurred to me that this rule would look something like a restriction of guns to prevent violence. (see Chicago and D.C.)
VieBleu ago
OK so here you go - here is the submission https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1575017/7674791 goes to this http://kendallmarthasvineyard.com/contact-kendall-real-estate.php
and here is the comment- https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1575017/7674791https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1575017/7674791
I sent the info to Millen Falcon, Vindicator, gophuckyourself, and wecanhelp
I received replies back over the next hours saying no one could figure out what to do, and gophuckyourself didn't want to "go rogue", and finally that KevDude made the decision to leave that woman's info up under the OP's stated wish to get 100x to call and ask questions daily and "ruin their lives for a bit."
Here is the comment for readers here - " AgainstTheNWO 2 points (+4|-2) 5 days ago
Why, do you not think they know that we know? Calling and talking is free ** I do not understand why it would be a bad idea if 100th keep calling them and ask them questions day in day out. Ruin their lives for a bit.** This can just be a question you ask, record and if there is or is not a answer place on www."
Ball now in your court. Let me guess, I'm wrong, it's all fine. I'm out of line, etc...
VieBleu ago
This has been going on for days, where are you when you are needed? I have plenty of proof of all of it, I don't waste my time or mods time with BS.
The other day there was a comment left up for HOURS that specifically called for phone harrassment and making life miserable for the real estate agent involved in the podesta email. Her office and phone are available as a public business, but she is a private person, not a politician or restauranteur even. AND the post specifically called for harrassing her and pointed right at her info.
There was a "debate"about it among the mods but ultimately KevDude decided that that woman deserved to have her info up and the call for harrassment comment was never every even addressed. It is all in my PM to mods and my history.
That is just one example ONE. We are sick of your self righteous BS about "just because you don't want people doxxed doesn't mean we shouldn't dox her..or whatever your latest way to put it is... Replying to you - NO IT IS NOT REMOVED WHEN REPORTED. I provided exact proof. The proof was never disputed by THREE MODS. Vindicator said he tried. and the other one, justsomething or other, wrote and told me he didn't want to go "rogue".
This shit is BS. Stop pretending to have some kind of high road running up your bum.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Links please.
The rules are no contact details, whether public or otherwise.
Proper results require proper conduct. Insults simply reduce my will to help.
You point out that you want harassment etc censored, yet you fall to petty insults.
This does not make me more amenable to your cause.
edit:
I have many things that demand my attention. Unfortunately I'm not always able to sit on internet forums and monitor them constantly.
The way around that is to message or ping me when things need to be brought to my attention.
The downside is sometimes I won't respond quick enough in some cases, but I will respond.
VieBleu ago
VSD- Unfortunately, the matter I brought to your attention has not been allowed to rest. KevDude is making it clear to me that once he and Crensch talk to you, everything you decided earlier will change, Those comments weren't harrassment/doxxing, there will be no editing of rules, and what you say are your standards are apparently of no consequence whatsoever according to Kevdude anyway..
This stuff is really ridiculous, confusing and a time waster for all of us. Who is actually in charge of voat pizzagate? Do you have the final say, or is it KevDude - because he comes down on me pretty hard for what you asked me to report to you so that you could "eliminate it immediately", as per your own comment earlier up on this thread.
It is important for all of us to know - does this forum allow doxxing and harrassment like that which I proved earlier after all? and ultimately, who is the authority here?
BTW- KevDude also enjoyed telling me someone should find me and knock out my teeth. Do you really think voat is the place to be for people who actually care about children? Considering the magnitude of what this controversial topic is about, maybe you should entirely rethink bedding down something as polarizing as pizzagate at a place that allows doxxing as most people define it, harrassment, calls for physical action, hate speech, anti-semitism, bigotry and all the rest. Maybe not such a good fit? Please think about it.
Thanks - VB
VieBleu ago
I'm being poetic, and describing the facts as well.
What I am talking about is a clear violation of your so called rules by mods. We experience it daily. I will TAKE THE TIME to get all the background for you, and then I expect that if I do that, there is going to be some kind of recourse to the mod that allowed the doxxing to stay, right? It was a "higher up" that made the determination, and it was KevDude. So Right? What is the recourse? Or are you having me go and prove this to you so you can continue to mock and ignore your own rules?
EDIt: as i recall, they said only doxxing of people on the forum wasn't allowed, is that true? Because if that is true, that's a shit rule. So my links are below.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Mods are held to a much higher standard and the first step is pointing out the error and ensuring the mistake is understood.
This will be my first step of 'recourse'.
Repeat violation will result in more stern actions.
If you want me to help you, be more observant of how your communication may harm your cause.
It's hard to articulate this one, as there are a bunch of annoying edge cases that can be ambiguous.
The current rules are meant to stop people from harassing people, at home or at work.
Currently, posting the contact details of a private residence or the details of an individual at a workplace are not permitted.
But what do we do when someone finds direct evidence of a specific location that is key in the discussion?
That would violate the rule, but also censor the investigation.
It's difficult to delineate between the issues and not fall foul of one problem or another.
Maybe wording like: "Posting the contact details of a private individual are not permitted, Posting the contact details of an individual at a workplace for the purposes of incitement to harass are not permitted."
Posting the street address of a location involved in child trafficking and abuse could be considered 'doxxing' but is possibly also necessary to communicate a link to others investigating.
I'm actually against posting publicly available location information for private individuals as it can often be turned into a method for claiming all kinds of information is 'public' and justifying the actions.
Figuring out this can sometimes take time and be very frustrating.
Please continue to give your input and perspective on this issue as I do feel it needs a concrete, no equivocating statement from the mods.
I will discuss this with @KevDude after reading your links and I will get back to you with the results of that discussion.
VieBleu ago
ok. I wil say this. I am and have acted out - angry- at you. You probably didn't have any idea it was coming and it felt wrong to you. I understand that. I'm not sorry, but I feel you deserve an explanation. When you are experiencing this stuff it builds up after awhile, then obviously it kind of explodes. Your mods do whatever they want whenever they want and you suddenly showing up acting like a parent who knows what's what seems hypocritical to me. Anyway it may or may not be, Idc. Just giving you context for my reaction.
There are other problems as well. If you genuinely want to clean this place up it is time because you will have an exit on your hands soon. When a place becomes unusable, there is no other choice. The spam nothing posts are not taken down even after numerous calls for it, we don't have more votes than the shills, turns out, so that doesn't work. It's way beyond just that doxxing problem, when I say tolerance of vigilante justice, violence and etc. I am not joking. Did you see that those rules were taken away in the forum rules rewrite? Thanks to KevDude. WTF? why would that ever be taken away from any forum's rules? Anyway, hope you have some understanding of where I am coming from.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
KevDude is no longer on the mod list.
There is nothing that can be added to that could be considered recourse.
This is part of the issue I have with my limited time, it can seem like that to the outside observer.
When discussing this with kingkongwaswrong my position was explicitly not one of constant direct involvement. I just don't have the time.
My involvement was to ensure there was no way a take over could happen because I have the ability to de-mod people.
When I am active in the sub my aim is to encourage the community to self manage, as it is the communities responsibility to itself.
I'm not a parent, guide or guardian, I am simply the thin line between those that want to subvert this sub and the community.
Then I will know people care more about whatever agenda they have than they do about stopping the pervasive, systematized, commercialized sexual exploitation of children by the elite and powerful of this planet.
If that happens, I will continue my own actions with my own resources, as I have been doing long before this forum existed.
VieBleu ago
Here is a copy of messages sent to me 1. over hours - this was not a quick - oops mistake decision 2. KevDude was specifically telling the other mods what to do on pizzagate forum 3. the mods promised changes in the rules - no change 4. they try to make the argument that OUR FORUM isn't specific about doxing people outside the forum. Really incredible.
sorry it is not a perfect document, i don't have time to do that for you now. It's all in my PM under my name here anyway.
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 5:59:47 AM doxxing thread
That would be Kevdude. And he would not let us delete. I will get demodded if I "over-moderate". It's considered censorship. Everything shared was public information, so it's technically not doxing. I tried, though.
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 1:04:36 AM doxxing thread
We are discussing the appropriate response now. Mods want to take down. Waiting to hear from Voat higher-ups.
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:26:34 AM doxxing thread
It is going to be getting taken down we're just getting secondary blarg for it as I'm a bit worn out from arguing about the ama thing right now. Wecanhelp will be taking care of it.
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:24:16 AM doxxing submission
It is not explicit enough, it only mentions doxxing against Voat subscribers. We're probably going to extend that with "or private citizens", and remove the post. I'm waiting for one more confirmation on this. Transparency within the mod team is important, I'm not going to go rogue with this.
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:14:07 AM doxxing submission
Thanks for these reports, I think you may be onto something with this. I'm actively trying to push some action on this, unfortunately most of our mods are temporarily away right now, and adding to the rules is always a more significant decision where it's best more of us weigh in.
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:13:22 AM doxxing thread
possible sidebar change incoming adding private citizens to the doxx claus. We want someone else to weigh in before we do so tho.
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:03:13 AM doxxing submission
We're discussing this right now, and will likely add a word about private citizen in the rules as well as remove either some comments or the entire submission. Give us a few minutes.
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/18/2017 11:53:50 PM doxxing thread
brainstorming with team on how to handle.
VieBleu ago
Let's get down to what is important - KevDude may not be on the mod list but I was told by TWO mods that they couldn't make a decision and had to go to a "higher up". I asked who it was and was specifically told it was KevDude. This was all done on PM and it is in my account.
Now, I really would like an explanation because you mods are allowing this forum to become a place where violence can be fomented, or at least harrassment, and I have the correspondence to prove it, and it is backed up and archived off this site. If you mean well, do not give me the excuse that KevDude is not on a list. What happened that day that is such a fail to your expressed preferences about doxxing?