Yes, change please, and we need to leave, seriously just a thread on any other forum would be much better than this abusive crap and being totally neglected by mods whose reason has clearly deserted them, even down to doxxing left up. I've never heard of any mods anywhere being fine with doxxing, violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment like they are for this forum.
Anyway upvoted too.
C'mon NO people - looking forward to seeing you : D
being fine with doxxing, violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment like they are for this forum
just because no one wants to adhere to your particular brand of censorship doesn't mean they advocate the opposite
As always, find a post that advocates those things, report it so it can be removed.
If you find a comment that 'doxxes' report it it will be removed.
If you find a comment that advocates "violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment" refute/downvote/ignore/troll - but the standing rules are comments do not get deleted unless they violate a rule.
Yes it can be upsetting for some to read comments that offend their sensibilities, but unfortunately, if we delete commentets that obviously inciting we get branded shills and killing free speech.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
and we need to leave
I was unaware that there were systems in place forcing you to be here......
This has been going on for days, where are you when you are needed? I have plenty of proof of all of it, I don't waste my time or mods time with BS.
The other day there was a comment left up for HOURS that specifically called for phone harrassment and making life miserable for the real estate agent involved in the podesta email. Her office and phone are available as a public business, but she is a private person, not a politician or restauranteur even. AND the post specifically called for harrassing her and pointed right at her info.
There was a "debate"about it among the mods but ultimately KevDude decided that that woman deserved to have her info up and the call for harrassment comment was never every even addressed. It is all in my PM to mods and my history.
That is just one example ONE. We are sick of your self righteous BS about "just because you don't want people doxxed doesn't mean we shouldn't dox her..or whatever your latest way to put it is... Replying to you -
NO IT IS NOT REMOVED WHEN REPORTED. I provided exact proof. The proof was never disputed by THREE MODS. Vindicator said he tried. and the other one, justsomething or other, wrote and told me he didn't want to go "rogue".
This shit is BS. Stop pretending to have some kind of high road running up your bum.
The rules are no contact details, whether public or otherwise.
We are sick of your self righteous BS about
Proper results require proper conduct. Insults simply reduce my will to help.
Stop pretending to have some kind of high road running up your bum.
You point out that you want harassment etc censored, yet you fall to petty insults.
This does not make me more amenable to your cause.
edit:
where are you when you are needed?
I have many things that demand my attention. Unfortunately I'm not always able to sit on internet forums and monitor them constantly.
The way around that is to message or ping me when things need to be brought to my attention.
The downside is sometimes I won't respond quick enough in some cases, but I will respond.
I'm being poetic, and describing the facts as well.
What I am talking about is a clear violation of your so called rules by mods. We experience it daily.
I will TAKE THE TIME to get all the background for you, and then I expect that if I do that, there is going to be some kind of recourse to the mod that allowed the doxxing to stay, right? It was a "higher up" that made the determination, and it was KevDude. So Right? What is the recourse? Or are you having me go and prove this to you so you can continue to mock and ignore your own rules?
EDIt: as i recall, they said only doxxing of people on the forum wasn't allowed, is that true? Because if that is true, that's a shit rule. So my links are below.
there is going to be some kind of recourse to the mod that allowed the doxxing to stay, right?
Mods are held to a much higher standard and the first step is pointing out the error and ensuring the mistake is understood.
This will be my first step of 'recourse'.
Repeat violation will result in more stern actions.
Or are you having me go and prove this to you so you can continue to mock and ignore your own rules?
If you want me to help you, be more observant of how your communication may harm your cause.
only doxxing of people on the forum wasn't allowed, is that true?
It's hard to articulate this one, as there are a bunch of annoying edge cases that can be ambiguous.
The current rules are meant to stop people from harassing people, at home or at work.
Currently, posting the contact details of a private residence or the details of an individual at a workplace are not permitted.
But what do we do when someone finds direct evidence of a specific location that is key in the discussion?
That would violate the rule, but also censor the investigation.
It's difficult to delineate between the issues and not fall foul of one problem or another.
Maybe wording like: "Posting the contact details of a private individual are not permitted, Posting the contact details of an individual at a workplace for the purposes of incitement to harass are not permitted."
Posting the street address of a location involved in child trafficking and abuse could be considered 'doxxing' but is possibly also necessary to communicate a link to others investigating.
I'm actually against posting publicly available location information for private individuals as it can often be turned into a method for claiming all kinds of information is 'public' and justifying the actions.
Figuring out this can sometimes take time and be very frustrating.
Please continue to give your input and perspective on this issue as I do feel it needs a concrete, no equivocating statement from the mods.
I will discuss this with @KevDude after reading your links and I will get back to you with the results of that discussion.
ok. I wil say this. I am and have acted out - angry- at you. You probably didn't have any idea it was coming and it felt wrong to you. I understand that. I'm not sorry, but I feel you deserve an explanation. When you are experiencing this stuff it builds up after awhile, then obviously it kind of explodes. Your mods do whatever they want whenever they want and you suddenly showing up acting like a parent who knows what's what seems hypocritical to me. Anyway it may or may not be, Idc. Just giving you context for my reaction.
There are other problems as well. If you genuinely want to clean this place up it is time because you will have an exit on your hands soon. When a place becomes unusable, there is no other choice. The spam nothing posts are not taken down even after numerous calls for it, we don't have more votes than the shills, turns out, so that doesn't work. It's way beyond just that doxxing problem, when I say tolerance of vigilante justice, violence and etc. I am not joking. Did you see that those rules were taken away in the forum rules rewrite? Thanks to KevDude. WTF? why would that ever be taken away from any forum's rules? Anyway, hope you have some understanding of where I am coming from.
KevDude is no longer on the mod list.
There is nothing that can be added to that could be considered recourse.
you suddenly showing up acting like a parent who knows what's what seems hypocritical to me
This is part of the issue I have with my limited time, it can seem like that to the outside observer.
When discussing this with kingkongwaswrong my position was explicitly not one of constant direct involvement. I just don't have the time.
My involvement was to ensure there was no way a take over could happen because I have the ability to de-mod people.
When I am active in the sub my aim is to encourage the community to self manage, as it is the communities responsibility to itself.
I'm not a parent, guide or guardian, I am simply the thin line between those that want to subvert this sub and the community.
you will have an exit on your hands soon.
Then I will know people care more about whatever agenda they have than they do about stopping the pervasive, systematized, commercialized sexual exploitation of children by the elite and powerful of this planet.
If that happens, I will continue my own actions with my own resources, as I have been doing long before this forum existed.
Here is a copy of messages sent to me
1. over hours - this was not a quick - oops mistake decision
2. KevDude was specifically telling the other mods what to do on pizzagate forum
3. the mods promised changes in the rules - no change
4. they try to make the argument that OUR FORUM isn't specific about doxing people outside the forum. Really incredible.
sorry it is not a perfect document, i don't have time to do that for you now. It's all in my PM under my name here anyway.
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 5:59:47 AM
doxxing thread
That would be Kevdude. And he would not let us delete. I will get demodded if I "over-moderate". It's considered censorship. Everything shared was public information, so it's technically not doxing. I tried, though.
reply source delete
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 1:04:36 AM
doxxing thread
We are discussing the appropriate response now. Mods want to take down. Waiting to hear from Voat higher-ups.
reply source delete
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:26:34 AM
doxxing thread
It is going to be getting taken down we're just getting secondary blarg for it as I'm a bit worn out from arguing about the ama thing right now. Wecanhelp will be taking care of it.
reply source delete
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:24:16 AM
doxxing submission
It is not explicit enough, it only mentions doxxing against Voat subscribers. We're probably going to extend that with "or private citizens", and remove the post. I'm waiting for one more confirmation on this. Transparency within the mod team is important, I'm not going to go rogue with this.
reply source delete
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:14:07 AM
doxxing submission
Thanks for these reports, I think you may be onto something with this. I'm actively trying to push some action on this, unfortunately most of our mods are temporarily away right now, and adding to the rules is always a more significant decision where it's best more of us weigh in.
reply source delete
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:13:22 AM
doxxing thread
possible sidebar change incoming adding private citizens to the doxx claus. We want someone else to weigh in before we do so tho.
reply source delete
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:03:13 AM
doxxing submission
We're discussing this right now, and will likely add a word about private citizen in the rules as well as remove either some comments or the entire submission. Give us a few minutes.
reply source delete
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/18/2017 11:53:50 PM
doxxing thread
Let's get down to what is important - KevDude may not be on the mod list but I was told by TWO mods that they couldn't make a decision and had to go to a "higher up". I asked who it was and was specifically told it was KevDude. This was all done on PM and it is in my account.
Now, I really would like an explanation because you mods are allowing this forum to become a place where violence can be fomented, or at least harrassment, and I have the correspondence to prove it, and it is backed up and archived off this site. If you mean well, do not give me the excuse that KevDude is not on a list. What happened that day that is such a fail to your expressed preferences about doxxing?
view the rest of the comments →
VieBleu ago
Yes, change please, and we need to leave, seriously just a thread on any other forum would be much better than this abusive crap and being totally neglected by mods whose reason has clearly deserted them, even down to doxxing left up. I've never heard of any mods anywhere being fine with doxxing, violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment like they are for this forum.
Anyway upvoted too.
C'mon NO people - looking forward to seeing you : D
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Where is this?, I'll remove it immediately
just because no one wants to adhere to your particular brand of censorship doesn't mean they advocate the opposite
As always, find a post that advocates those things, report it so it can be removed.
If you find a comment that 'doxxes' report it it will be removed.
If you find a comment that advocates "violence, vigilante justice and calls for harrassment" refute/downvote/ignore/troll - but the standing rules are comments do not get deleted unless they violate a rule.
Yes it can be upsetting for some to read comments that offend their sensibilities, but unfortunately, if we delete commentets that obviously inciting we get branded shills and killing free speech.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
I was unaware that there were systems in place forcing you to be here......
VieBleu ago
This has been going on for days, where are you when you are needed? I have plenty of proof of all of it, I don't waste my time or mods time with BS.
The other day there was a comment left up for HOURS that specifically called for phone harrassment and making life miserable for the real estate agent involved in the podesta email. Her office and phone are available as a public business, but she is a private person, not a politician or restauranteur even. AND the post specifically called for harrassing her and pointed right at her info.
There was a "debate"about it among the mods but ultimately KevDude decided that that woman deserved to have her info up and the call for harrassment comment was never every even addressed. It is all in my PM to mods and my history.
That is just one example ONE. We are sick of your self righteous BS about "just because you don't want people doxxed doesn't mean we shouldn't dox her..or whatever your latest way to put it is... Replying to you - NO IT IS NOT REMOVED WHEN REPORTED. I provided exact proof. The proof was never disputed by THREE MODS. Vindicator said he tried. and the other one, justsomething or other, wrote and told me he didn't want to go "rogue".
This shit is BS. Stop pretending to have some kind of high road running up your bum.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Links please.
The rules are no contact details, whether public or otherwise.
Proper results require proper conduct. Insults simply reduce my will to help.
You point out that you want harassment etc censored, yet you fall to petty insults.
This does not make me more amenable to your cause.
edit:
I have many things that demand my attention. Unfortunately I'm not always able to sit on internet forums and monitor them constantly.
The way around that is to message or ping me when things need to be brought to my attention.
The downside is sometimes I won't respond quick enough in some cases, but I will respond.
VieBleu ago
I'm being poetic, and describing the facts as well.
What I am talking about is a clear violation of your so called rules by mods. We experience it daily. I will TAKE THE TIME to get all the background for you, and then I expect that if I do that, there is going to be some kind of recourse to the mod that allowed the doxxing to stay, right? It was a "higher up" that made the determination, and it was KevDude. So Right? What is the recourse? Or are you having me go and prove this to you so you can continue to mock and ignore your own rules?
EDIt: as i recall, they said only doxxing of people on the forum wasn't allowed, is that true? Because if that is true, that's a shit rule. So my links are below.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Mods are held to a much higher standard and the first step is pointing out the error and ensuring the mistake is understood.
This will be my first step of 'recourse'.
Repeat violation will result in more stern actions.
If you want me to help you, be more observant of how your communication may harm your cause.
It's hard to articulate this one, as there are a bunch of annoying edge cases that can be ambiguous.
The current rules are meant to stop people from harassing people, at home or at work.
Currently, posting the contact details of a private residence or the details of an individual at a workplace are not permitted.
But what do we do when someone finds direct evidence of a specific location that is key in the discussion?
That would violate the rule, but also censor the investigation.
It's difficult to delineate between the issues and not fall foul of one problem or another.
Maybe wording like: "Posting the contact details of a private individual are not permitted, Posting the contact details of an individual at a workplace for the purposes of incitement to harass are not permitted."
Posting the street address of a location involved in child trafficking and abuse could be considered 'doxxing' but is possibly also necessary to communicate a link to others investigating.
I'm actually against posting publicly available location information for private individuals as it can often be turned into a method for claiming all kinds of information is 'public' and justifying the actions.
Figuring out this can sometimes take time and be very frustrating.
Please continue to give your input and perspective on this issue as I do feel it needs a concrete, no equivocating statement from the mods.
I will discuss this with @KevDude after reading your links and I will get back to you with the results of that discussion.
VieBleu ago
ok. I wil say this. I am and have acted out - angry- at you. You probably didn't have any idea it was coming and it felt wrong to you. I understand that. I'm not sorry, but I feel you deserve an explanation. When you are experiencing this stuff it builds up after awhile, then obviously it kind of explodes. Your mods do whatever they want whenever they want and you suddenly showing up acting like a parent who knows what's what seems hypocritical to me. Anyway it may or may not be, Idc. Just giving you context for my reaction.
There are other problems as well. If you genuinely want to clean this place up it is time because you will have an exit on your hands soon. When a place becomes unusable, there is no other choice. The spam nothing posts are not taken down even after numerous calls for it, we don't have more votes than the shills, turns out, so that doesn't work. It's way beyond just that doxxing problem, when I say tolerance of vigilante justice, violence and etc. I am not joking. Did you see that those rules were taken away in the forum rules rewrite? Thanks to KevDude. WTF? why would that ever be taken away from any forum's rules? Anyway, hope you have some understanding of where I am coming from.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
KevDude is no longer on the mod list.
There is nothing that can be added to that could be considered recourse.
This is part of the issue I have with my limited time, it can seem like that to the outside observer.
When discussing this with kingkongwaswrong my position was explicitly not one of constant direct involvement. I just don't have the time.
My involvement was to ensure there was no way a take over could happen because I have the ability to de-mod people.
When I am active in the sub my aim is to encourage the community to self manage, as it is the communities responsibility to itself.
I'm not a parent, guide or guardian, I am simply the thin line between those that want to subvert this sub and the community.
Then I will know people care more about whatever agenda they have than they do about stopping the pervasive, systematized, commercialized sexual exploitation of children by the elite and powerful of this planet.
If that happens, I will continue my own actions with my own resources, as I have been doing long before this forum existed.
VieBleu ago
Here is a copy of messages sent to me 1. over hours - this was not a quick - oops mistake decision 2. KevDude was specifically telling the other mods what to do on pizzagate forum 3. the mods promised changes in the rules - no change 4. they try to make the argument that OUR FORUM isn't specific about doxing people outside the forum. Really incredible.
sorry it is not a perfect document, i don't have time to do that for you now. It's all in my PM under my name here anyway.
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 5:59:47 AM doxxing thread
That would be Kevdude. And he would not let us delete. I will get demodded if I "over-moderate". It's considered censorship. Everything shared was public information, so it's technically not doxing. I tried, though.
Vindicator > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 1:04:36 AM doxxing thread
We are discussing the appropriate response now. Mods want to take down. Waiting to hear from Voat higher-ups.
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:26:34 AM doxxing thread
It is going to be getting taken down we're just getting secondary blarg for it as I'm a bit worn out from arguing about the ama thing right now. Wecanhelp will be taking care of it.
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:24:16 AM doxxing submission
It is not explicit enough, it only mentions doxxing against Voat subscribers. We're probably going to extend that with "or private citizens", and remove the post. I'm waiting for one more confirmation on this. Transparency within the mod team is important, I'm not going to go rogue with this.
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:14:07 AM doxxing submission
Thanks for these reports, I think you may be onto something with this. I'm actively trying to push some action on this, unfortunately most of our mods are temporarily away right now, and adding to the rules is always a more significant decision where it's best more of us weigh in.
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:13:22 AM doxxing thread
possible sidebar change incoming adding private citizens to the doxx claus. We want someone else to weigh in before we do so tho.
wecanhelp > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/19/2017 12:03:13 AM doxxing submission
We're discussing this right now, and will likely add a word about private citizen in the rules as well as remove either some comments or the entire submission. Give us a few minutes.
gopluckyourself > VieBleu | Sent: 5 days ago on 1/18/2017 11:53:50 PM doxxing thread
brainstorming with team on how to handle.
VieBleu ago
Let's get down to what is important - KevDude may not be on the mod list but I was told by TWO mods that they couldn't make a decision and had to go to a "higher up". I asked who it was and was specifically told it was KevDude. This was all done on PM and it is in my account.
Now, I really would like an explanation because you mods are allowing this forum to become a place where violence can be fomented, or at least harrassment, and I have the correspondence to prove it, and it is backed up and archived off this site. If you mean well, do not give me the excuse that KevDude is not on a list. What happened that day that is such a fail to your expressed preferences about doxxing?