We need to rally behind this young man. I came forward with information about alefantis and the community attacked. I can't imagine how this guy feels right now. He goes public with very sensitive information and the community pushes him away rather than taking him in and listening to him. Quit acting like this every time somebody comes forward with allegations of Alefantis doing something to them personally. Take it for what it is and if it proves false then so be it.
Hope he talks with Opperman like you did, and that the voat community (barring the MK Edgar shooter story) continues to show tact and restraint by not harassing to the point of silence those connected that might have info.
Also, I personally didn't attack. Just found it hard to believe the guy would actually respond. Seemed reckless on JAs part. Can't blame peeps being sceptical and paranoid around here tho. I've mostly only been a reader and my phone and computer have been janky AF lately.
Listen and believe? No. No rational person should ever just take what anyone claims as truth without questioning it.
Your posts were shown to be horseshit to sell your Pizzagate merchandise and are what made me unsub from this verse. You didn't provide a single shred of evidence that couldn't easily be forged, as many people pointed out. So let's temporarily give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume everything you said is true -- I can't believe you because you just couldn't resist hocking your wares. You destroyed your own credibility. Your comments damage everything you post on.
I refunded every single person that spent money on PizzaGateGear.com
Not because I thought it was wrong because it was serving as too big of a distraction for you guys to wrap your heads around
It wasn't a distraction. It was a conflict of interest.
Theres alot of shills on here trying to change peoples perceptions. An accuser is exactly the kind of proof people are saying we dont have. They're either shills, stupid, or scared.
Speaking to this community is defacto speaking to your opposition - 50% or more on here are the CIA and paid Brock shills. Then you always have a couple of stupid random trolls who can be louder than loud. Do not harbor resentment because people interested in pizzagate are not the attackers.
It could very well be that 5000 of the 10k subscribers are paid opposition. If you believe that, then it is very easy to believe that they are able to upvote posts that can mislead or discredit the investigation as a whole. personally, applying occam's razor on these type of claims, I believe the person is not acting in good faith if they don't go to the police first, and then come here with a police statement. If you had been raped as a young adult many years ago, and finally got the courage to deal with it, would you go to the police, or to an online forum?
also, including the address of someone that is the son of a chef that used to work for CPP many years ago.... that is doxxing, and that is a BIG RED FLAG.
yeah I can't stand doxxing and the mods here are totally lax about it. I've never seen such effed up mods in my life.
I think your standard of reasoning is a good middle ground, but behaviors vary. Would I go to the police instead of an online forum? Not sure. A lot of things happen between people that don't get taken to the police, who are often hardly trustworthy, especially if you've already learned not to trust authority because of abuse. I've known someone who was molested as a kid that would be far more likely to talk to "peers" than law enforcement.
I am not contesting that explanations were made, I am saying that talk is cheap, and it would be believable if the person had contacted law enforcement and shown us the proof.
Talk is cheap?? He's a human being coming forward with allegations of being sexually assaulted and your response to him is talk is cheap? He didn't have to come forward but he did because he thought this community deserved the information. He's put himself in a lot of danger just to come out public with this.
In this environment, where anybody can claim anything, and we KNOW that some percentage of subscribers do not have good intentions, then yes, talk is cheap. that statement is not meant to be demeaning, it is just a fact.
he or she that originally posted the allegation used email screenshots as proof. just like with the person that alleged that they had been threatened by J.A. by showing screenshots of a chatlog, these kinds of evidence are too easy to fake. they unfortunately don't prove anything.
I am the person that alefantis threatened. I provided the Facebook messenger chats, the call logs, the text chats, the police report number, and I even sent my phone bill to many people around the world. I provided you with everything I could and still I get told it's not proof(yet it's good enough for FBI and lawyer). All I'm saying is you guys are not lawyers or professionals in the field. You shouldn't have this attitude or give me (random fucking person on the internet) everything you possibly have or GTFO. This guy is coming to you with info that he feels comfortable enough to give to you. It is irresponsible to say well because you may not want to give everything out you could be lying so GTFO.
You don't owe anyone anything, and no one owes you anything. you put out what you feel comfortable with, and people take in what they feel comfortable with. this is the only responsible attitude in participating in an open source investigation.
really, no hard feelings and I mean all respect to you. you have your reasons for participating, and whatever they are, I am ok with them. but precisely because none of us are professionals, we have only the Mods and eachother to hold ourselves accountable. critical dialogue is the fundament. I welcome it, and if your intentions are correct, so should you.
I'm not saying don't use critical thinking when you receive info. I'm saying when somebody comes to community with real life events that have happened to them be a little more respectful how you deal with them. This is their real life. It has serious real life consequences to them. You are an anonymous internet person. It has no consequence to you. Think but be respectful when somebody comes forward with sensitive info
You raise a good point, although I remember when this was posted on reddit and voat, and thinking that it seemed suspect that the OP posted in several subs on two sites and then left within a few hours. since then the person hasn't said anything. I find it strange.
For my part, I did not attack. I am very skeptical about everything given the nature of the circumstances. The very best of disinfo agents use logical fallacies that are designed to slip past people that do not investigate. The majority of strategies count on this tactic together with providing no proof to backup the claim. They bank on the fact that most do not investigate claims. Most people don't know how to properly come to a fact based conclusion; which is why I push the Trivium -- it shows people how to think critically. Sometimes (a lot) the lack of proof is the only detail that the whole case rests on.
Also, I look at the two extremes of believability and rejection. If this story is true, then what? If this story is false, then how does that change anything? Etc. With your particular story, accepting it as truth comes with far reaching consequences. Yet, disbelief negates the possibility of Aleflakeis' personal involvement and more. However, given the circumstances and lack of proof, I must err on the side of logic. The claimant always has the burden of proof. The claimant must comprehend this just the same as the researcher is firmly grounded in reality and uses facts and proof of facts. You would be hard pressed to get any public official (police or alphabet gangs, etc.) to 'rally' behind anything without proof. That's what makes this so difficult and is exactly why they are reluctant to investigate.
The FBI did help coverup the Franklin Scandal. But the only way that works is through top-down control and compartmentalization. The entire organization is not corrupt, just filled with useful dupes who believe the narrative and then there are the architects in top positions. There are also many people like us believing in themselves and motivated by righteousness yet limited by access and resources. But, yes, you're right... hopefully the ones viewing these comments are not corrupt and will uphold their positions with honour and dignity and NEVER compromise their moral values for a bribe or worse, an authoritarian demand. When does following orders preside over moral judgement? Never...
Public pressure and not allowing it to slip down the memory hole is I think the strength of whats happening on voat. Maybe someone here does come up with a smoking gun, but if it's true as it looks from this side of the screen, they already know but all attempts to investigate have likely been "prohibited" ones due to "national security" issues.
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IsThisGameOfThrones ago
We need to rally behind this young man. I came forward with information about alefantis and the community attacked. I can't imagine how this guy feels right now. He goes public with very sensitive information and the community pushes him away rather than taking him in and listening to him. Quit acting like this every time somebody comes forward with allegations of Alefantis doing something to them personally. Take it for what it is and if it proves false then so be it.
SterlingJB ago
Hope he talks with Opperman like you did, and that the voat community (barring the MK Edgar shooter story) continues to show tact and restraint by not harassing to the point of silence those connected that might have info.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
Ed was very supportive and professional. I'm very happy that I decided to talk with him. I would suggest he do the same.
SterlingJB ago
Also, I personally didn't attack. Just found it hard to believe the guy would actually respond. Seemed reckless on JAs part. Can't blame peeps being sceptical and paranoid around here tho. I've mostly only been a reader and my phone and computer have been janky AF lately.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
I always understood the skepticism but the attacks is what got me. Yeah he's out of his mind for doing what he did
SterlingJB ago
Since posting more I'm starting to believe in shill armies. The attacks may've not been entirely organic
creep ago
Listen and believe? No. No rational person should ever just take what anyone claims as truth without questioning it.
Your posts were shown to be horseshit to sell your Pizzagate merchandise and are what made me unsub from this verse. You didn't provide a single shred of evidence that couldn't easily be forged, as many people pointed out. So let's temporarily give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume everything you said is true -- I can't believe you because you just couldn't resist hocking your wares. You destroyed your own credibility. Your comments damage everything you post on.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
I refunded every single person that spent money on PizzaGateGear.com
Not because I thought it was wrong because it was serving as too big of a distraction for you guys to wrap your heads around
creep ago
It wasn't a distraction. It was a conflict of interest.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
It wasn't.
HomeboyChrisBanned ago
Theres alot of shills on here trying to change peoples perceptions. An accuser is exactly the kind of proof people are saying we dont have. They're either shills, stupid, or scared.
Vindicator ago
Glad to see you are still about!
VieBleu ago
Speaking to this community is defacto speaking to your opposition - 50% or more on here are the CIA and paid Brock shills. Then you always have a couple of stupid random trolls who can be louder than loud. Do not harbor resentment because people interested in pizzagate are not the attackers.
justanotherpizza ago
It could very well be that 5000 of the 10k subscribers are paid opposition. If you believe that, then it is very easy to believe that they are able to upvote posts that can mislead or discredit the investigation as a whole. personally, applying occam's razor on these type of claims, I believe the person is not acting in good faith if they don't go to the police first, and then come here with a police statement. If you had been raped as a young adult many years ago, and finally got the courage to deal with it, would you go to the police, or to an online forum?
also, including the address of someone that is the son of a chef that used to work for CPP many years ago.... that is doxxing, and that is a BIG RED FLAG.
VieBleu ago
yeah I can't stand doxxing and the mods here are totally lax about it. I've never seen such effed up mods in my life.
I think your standard of reasoning is a good middle ground, but behaviors vary. Would I go to the police instead of an online forum? Not sure. A lot of things happen between people that don't get taken to the police, who are often hardly trustworthy, especially if you've already learned not to trust authority because of abuse. I've known someone who was molested as a kid that would be far more likely to talk to "peers" than law enforcement.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
He explains why he didn't in his AMA
justanotherpizza ago
I am not contesting that explanations were made, I am saying that talk is cheap, and it would be believable if the person had contacted law enforcement and shown us the proof.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
Talk is cheap?? He's a human being coming forward with allegations of being sexually assaulted and your response to him is talk is cheap? He didn't have to come forward but he did because he thought this community deserved the information. He's put himself in a lot of danger just to come out public with this.
justanotherpizza ago
In this environment, where anybody can claim anything, and we KNOW that some percentage of subscribers do not have good intentions, then yes, talk is cheap. that statement is not meant to be demeaning, it is just a fact.
he or she that originally posted the allegation used email screenshots as proof. just like with the person that alleged that they had been threatened by J.A. by showing screenshots of a chatlog, these kinds of evidence are too easy to fake. they unfortunately don't prove anything.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
I am the person that alefantis threatened. I provided the Facebook messenger chats, the call logs, the text chats, the police report number, and I even sent my phone bill to many people around the world. I provided you with everything I could and still I get told it's not proof(yet it's good enough for FBI and lawyer). All I'm saying is you guys are not lawyers or professionals in the field. You shouldn't have this attitude or give me (random fucking person on the internet) everything you possibly have or GTFO. This guy is coming to you with info that he feels comfortable enough to give to you. It is irresponsible to say well because you may not want to give everything out you could be lying so GTFO.
justanotherpizza ago
You don't owe anyone anything, and no one owes you anything. you put out what you feel comfortable with, and people take in what they feel comfortable with. this is the only responsible attitude in participating in an open source investigation.
really, no hard feelings and I mean all respect to you. you have your reasons for participating, and whatever they are, I am ok with them. but precisely because none of us are professionals, we have only the Mods and eachother to hold ourselves accountable. critical dialogue is the fundament. I welcome it, and if your intentions are correct, so should you.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
I'm not saying don't use critical thinking when you receive info. I'm saying when somebody comes to community with real life events that have happened to them be a little more respectful how you deal with them. This is their real life. It has serious real life consequences to them. You are an anonymous internet person. It has no consequence to you. Think but be respectful when somebody comes forward with sensitive info
justanotherpizza ago
Yes, you are right. I agree. once again, no disrespect meant. Thanks for the discussion.
IsThisGameOfThrones ago
None taken brother. I think I'm just too amped up from trying to defend trump these past few days. Sorry if I was acting like an ass
Freemasonsrus ago
I would not assume the DC police are my friend if I were this kid. That may be why he would choose to simply share his story online.
justanotherpizza ago
You raise a good point, although I remember when this was posted on reddit and voat, and thinking that it seemed suspect that the OP posted in several subs on two sites and then left within a few hours. since then the person hasn't said anything. I find it strange.
kekistocrat ago
For my part, I did not attack. I am very skeptical about everything given the nature of the circumstances. The very best of disinfo agents use logical fallacies that are designed to slip past people that do not investigate. The majority of strategies count on this tactic together with providing no proof to backup the claim. They bank on the fact that most do not investigate claims. Most people don't know how to properly come to a fact based conclusion; which is why I push the Trivium -- it shows people how to think critically. Sometimes (a lot) the lack of proof is the only detail that the whole case rests on.
Also, I look at the two extremes of believability and rejection. If this story is true, then what? If this story is false, then how does that change anything? Etc. With your particular story, accepting it as truth comes with far reaching consequences. Yet, disbelief negates the possibility of Aleflakeis' personal involvement and more. However, given the circumstances and lack of proof, I must err on the side of logic. The claimant always has the burden of proof. The claimant must comprehend this just the same as the researcher is firmly grounded in reality and uses facts and proof of facts. You would be hard pressed to get any public official (police or alphabet gangs, etc.) to 'rally' behind anything without proof. That's what makes this so difficult and is exactly why they are reluctant to investigate.
NeedPolyGF ago
assuming they're not crooked cops in the first place.
kekistocrat ago
The FBI did help coverup the Franklin Scandal. But the only way that works is through top-down control and compartmentalization. The entire organization is not corrupt, just filled with useful dupes who believe the narrative and then there are the architects in top positions. There are also many people like us believing in themselves and motivated by righteousness yet limited by access and resources. But, yes, you're right... hopefully the ones viewing these comments are not corrupt and will uphold their positions with honour and dignity and NEVER compromise their moral values for a bribe or worse, an authoritarian demand. When does following orders preside over moral judgement? Never...
SterlingJB ago
Public pressure and not allowing it to slip down the memory hole is I think the strength of whats happening on voat. Maybe someone here does come up with a smoking gun, but if it's true as it looks from this side of the screen, they already know but all attempts to investigate have likely been "prohibited" ones due to "national security" issues.