No, he's simply trying to be rational about this particular email, he knows the others (emails) are more than a little sketchy. I don't believe at all that he's a shill, he probably will have the same degree of hatred for these people once, and if, they are busted. "Sold his soul to the devil" ... ease up you guys. What if this case had to be presented in court. The defense would destroy the use of this particular Moloch email if the prosecution used it in a principal way.
LOL. You calling me a shill really makes me think you're a shill who's mad at me for stopping you from making this whole investigation look ridiculous.
Go read my other comments here (like this one: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1494337/7296124)). My comments have centered around 1) making suggestions for presenting this investigation to people in the most rational and convincing manner so that they see it has real merit, 2) defending it to those who think it is without basis, and 3) pointing out the cases where I think people are suffering from confirmation bias and thereby weakening the argument for pizzagate (which is precisely what you're doing in this case, because you seem to have abandoned all principled skepticism).
Why don't you try answering the questions and points in my comments above? The only thing you could try to argue is even remotely unique in her comment is the specific name of the god she used. As a general statement there's nothing unique about it. Making a sacrifice to a pagan god is not a unique or unusual joke in the context of hoping for luck. Now, you could try to come up with a reason for why she might have chosen Moloch in particular (Bohemian Grove might be a suggestion, but it seems highly questionable whether an Owl has ever been used to depict Moloch), but I suspect that it would be pure speculation (though I'm open to any info suggesting otherwise). It could be random. She could have come across it somewhere recently, or it might just be part of her background knowledge for either innocent or nefarious reasons. Either way, there's a real hurdle here to claiming that the most plausible interpretation of this statement is that she literally did any of these things, much less that she sacrificed a child instead of a chicken.
I agree with you heks, I've understood the statement for a while to be simply about good luck, the weird part is the mention of Moloch (never heard of it in 'popular vernacular' referring to good luck but then I've also never heard, nor do I now understand, the significance of the attic). Guess I could google it. But yes, a lot of confirmation bias, which can confuse. Again, funny how they mention Moloch, but then, as I say, maybe it's good luck phraseology that I'm not familiar with ... if the majority of the population isn't aware of this (good luck) use of the term, then it's kind of striking to have been mentioned by this particular group of people. Indeed, it's also not referring to a literal BBQ or the actual cooking of a chicken 'in the backyard.' Very doubtful. But why is it a chicken? Oh well.
Yes, as I've mentioned in this thread, the only thing about this statement that might be interpreted as slightly unusual is the specific mention of "Moloch" by name. Could this be because she's involved in the occult in some fashion? Sure. I guess so. That's not a particularly implausible answer given some of the other info that has been discovered. But then again, Moloch has gotten a lot play in popular culture over the course of many generations, to the point that the usage here might not be considered all that unusual.
From the linked page:
The Canaanite god Moloch was the recipient of child sacrifice according to the account of the Hebrew Bible as well as Greco-Roman historiography on the god of Carthage. Moloch is depicted in John Milton's Paradise Lost as one of the greatest warriors of the rebel angels, vengeful and militant.
In the 19th century, "Moloch" came to be used allegorically, of any idol or cause requiring excessive sacrifice.[1] Bertrand Russell in 1903 used Moloch to describe oppressive religion, and Winston Churchill in his 1948 history The Gathering Storm used Moloch as a metaphor for Adolf Hitler's cult of personality.
I'm not sure what her pop-culture references are, so it's hard to say whether she's more likely to be familiar with Moloch from pop-culture or occultism. For most people I'd suggest it was pop-culture, but given the information that has been uncovered in recent months it seems much harder to say that with any certainty here.
{EDIT: Of course, she could be familiar with the name from the Bible}
As for why a chicken, I'd guess because that's typically the go-to animal for sacrifices in jokes like this, or even in movies and tv shows. At least, it's the first one that comes to mind for me. In the shows and movies that are trying to set a more sinister tone the animal might be something like a sheep, but chicken is the first animal that would pop into my head in this scenario.
And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one. To see a code here is to do exactly what the MSM has wrongly accused people of doing with the Podesta emails, which is simply deciding for no apparent reason that one word really means another word in this particular instance. The mere fact that some word is used in a code in some contexts is not a rational justification for thinking it is intended to be understood according to that code in a case where the context and content of the statement not only doesn't require a 'code' interpretation but actually militates against it.
But for pointing all this out, people like ferref label me a shill. Those are the type of people that will undermine the integrity of this investigation and any air of objectivity that should be plainly visible to outsiders coming here to find out what pizzagate is really all about.
Thanks for all this. Yes, agreed. I myself had a very serious Christian upbringing and so am well aware of Moloch (of the Bible), and in my circles the name would not have been used flippantly like this, therefore I'm not surprised that I myself have never heard it used that way (for good luck). But others may very well, and apparently do. Why not, it would be kind of funny to some.
And right, hard to say whether pop culture or occultism. (Heh, is there a difference anymore?) By context of the email and using the simplest explanation w/out running into any unnecessary rabbit holes I would say pop culture too. But I don't know how 'thick' (tight) the person is w/ the other nutjobs (haven't researched it, no time).
Ditto, chicken for me too, certainly not gonna be a large animal ... the person is thinking in terms of personal convenience, and maybe other things, and humor is a factor.
"And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one ... "
Exactly.
Wish my head was as clear as yours right now (insomnia, not pizzagate related!). You're articulate, don't go anywhere. I knew from the get-go exactly what you were trying to explain. That's why I upvoated you. People can get in a frenzy, that's not gonna help. (Like I said, I always thought **that particular **email was a joke, about good luck.) Still curious about the attic ... I know the Aerosmith song Toys in the Attic, maybe there's a connection : )
LOL. Are you seriously saying that I sold my soul to Satan because I disagree with what I think is an obviously silly interpretation of this statement that seems to completely ignore its larger context? Look at my other comments on this board.
Once again, I suggest that you look at the context of the statement in question. The interpretation being put forward here is simply not particularly plausible even if you think these people might be involved in occultic pedophilia, which I'm absolutely open to.
I'm no shill (see my other comments here), but I really don't think this is anything. Look at the statement in the context of the entire sentence and the larger email thread. The email prior to this comment is describing some situation that they hope will work out as they want. Then we see this in response:
With fingers crossed, the old rabbit's foot out of the box in the attic, I will be sacrificing a chicken in the backyard to Moloch . . .
It seems pretty obvious to me that what we're seeing here is a joke about three different methods of trying to get good luck or a desired outcome.
Method 1 = Crossing fingers
Method 2 = Using a rabbit's foot
Method 3 = Making a sacrifice to a god
Honestly, I don't see anything remotely sinister here unless you insist that she really meant to do these things literally (i.e. cross her fingers, go into the attic to get a rabbit's foot, then, still having her fingers crossed, sacrifice a chicken), and even then there's no reason in this particular instance to think "chicken" is code for anything, since an actual chicken would make perfect sense here.
It's things like this that teach us the lesson that we need to be ever-vigilant against confirmation bias.
Is a Satanist more likely to kill a person to please Molech, or a chicken? In the beginning of the history of this god, Molech was the god that people would offer their children to as a sacrifice. This was because they were in Babylon, having orgies, and having lots of unwanted babies. Satan is happier with the destruction of a human life, than he is with the destruction of a chicken life. Chickenlover = pedo slang for boy lover. IDK, you can think it was just a coincidence if you want. I am simply asking what other people think. So thank you for your two cents.
1) Both children and animals were sacrificed to Moloch
2) It seems to me that you're simply assuming she knew anything about Moloch beyond the name, for example, knowing enough to know that children were sacrificed, but not enough to know that animals were sacrificed. Now, maybe you're right that she was intimately familiar with Moloch, but then that causes a problem if you're assuming she didn't know animals were also sacrificed. So your argument seems to require that she have a very specific amount of knowledge, but no more.
3) You have to assume that she meant all this literally rather than as a joke that went along with the other two references to courting good luck. Do you think she literally crossed her fingers and got the rabbit's foot out of the attic? If not, why think she literally sacrificed a chicken, much less a child, and in her backyard of all places?
I suspect you might think I'm a shill or something for taking a stand against this, but precisely the opposite is true. I think there is legitimate cause for concern about pizzagate and warrant for an investigation to determine whether or not the pizzagate suspicions are true. I'm also thoroughly annoyed by how badly the MSM has misrepresented this issue. But in this particular case this truly seems to me like a clear case of confirmation bias and a complete abandonment of objectivity and healthy skepticism, which only gives justification to the MSM for ignoring pizzagate. I see zero reason to believe she literally did any of the 3 things she mentioned here, and this sentence gives no telltale indications that it is employing "chicken" as a code word. When you read this whole thing in context, this statement simply comes off as a kind of joke expressing her hope that things described in the prior email turn out as desired.
Look again at the poster of the pizza place in NY that Clinton likes, the one with grisly images and a summer solstice advertised. They mention roasting chickens.
According to this Satanic calendar, the Maypole dance occurs during one of the 8 Sabbaths on April 30. Since this references the maypole dance I am thinking there must be human sacrifice implied. If you look here:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/satanic_calendar.htm
30 April May night/Maypole dance
April 30 Walpurgis night/Beltane: One of the most important nights on the satanic calendar. Blood rituals and human sacrifice take place.
Seriously who even casually makes jokes about sacrifices to a pagan god in the first place? No matter what context someone tries to put this, it's just very weird and out of place period
Chickenlover = a gay pedophile who likes little boys
Is this chicken this staffer planned to sacrifice to Moloch actually a child? Traditionally Molech is the god of child sacrifice.
Molech is also what they named their pagan idol at Bohemian Grove where they perform a "mock" human sacrifice. Hillary would know all about this since Bill was frequently a Bohemian Grove attendee.
amyrebeccajames ago
But hey, face painting. A vague and not well hidden reference to a cum shot on a kid. From the looks of it a dead body of a kid?
bopper ago
No, he's simply trying to be rational about this particular email, he knows the others (emails) are more than a little sketchy. I don't believe at all that he's a shill, he probably will have the same degree of hatred for these people once, and if, they are busted. "Sold his soul to the devil" ... ease up you guys. What if this case had to be presented in court. The defense would destroy the use of this particular Moloch email if the prosecution used it in a principal way.
heks_ ago
LOL. You calling me a shill really makes me think you're a shill who's mad at me for stopping you from making this whole investigation look ridiculous.
Go read my other comments here (like this one: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1494337/7296124)). My comments have centered around 1) making suggestions for presenting this investigation to people in the most rational and convincing manner so that they see it has real merit, 2) defending it to those who think it is without basis, and 3) pointing out the cases where I think people are suffering from confirmation bias and thereby weakening the argument for pizzagate (which is precisely what you're doing in this case, because you seem to have abandoned all principled skepticism).
If I'm a shill, you should hope for more like me.
heks_ ago
Why don't you try answering the questions and points in my comments above? The only thing you could try to argue is even remotely unique in her comment is the specific name of the god she used. As a general statement there's nothing unique about it. Making a sacrifice to a pagan god is not a unique or unusual joke in the context of hoping for luck. Now, you could try to come up with a reason for why she might have chosen Moloch in particular (Bohemian Grove might be a suggestion, but it seems highly questionable whether an Owl has ever been used to depict Moloch), but I suspect that it would be pure speculation (though I'm open to any info suggesting otherwise). It could be random. She could have come across it somewhere recently, or it might just be part of her background knowledge for either innocent or nefarious reasons. Either way, there's a real hurdle here to claiming that the most plausible interpretation of this statement is that she literally did any of these things, much less that she sacrificed a child instead of a chicken.
bopper ago
I agree with you heks, I've understood the statement for a while to be simply about good luck, the weird part is the mention of Moloch (never heard of it in 'popular vernacular' referring to good luck but then I've also never heard, nor do I now understand, the significance of the attic). Guess I could google it. But yes, a lot of confirmation bias, which can confuse. Again, funny how they mention Moloch, but then, as I say, maybe it's good luck phraseology that I'm not familiar with ... if the majority of the population isn't aware of this (good luck) use of the term, then it's kind of striking to have been mentioned by this particular group of people. Indeed, it's also not referring to a literal BBQ or the actual cooking of a chicken 'in the backyard.' Very doubtful. But why is it a chicken? Oh well.
heks_ ago
Hey bopper,
Yes, as I've mentioned in this thread, the only thing about this statement that might be interpreted as slightly unusual is the specific mention of "Moloch" by name. Could this be because she's involved in the occult in some fashion? Sure. I guess so. That's not a particularly implausible answer given some of the other info that has been discovered. But then again, Moloch has gotten a lot play in popular culture over the course of many generations, to the point that the usage here might not be considered all that unusual.
From the linked page:
I'm not sure what her pop-culture references are, so it's hard to say whether she's more likely to be familiar with Moloch from pop-culture or occultism. For most people I'd suggest it was pop-culture, but given the information that has been uncovered in recent months it seems much harder to say that with any certainty here.
{EDIT: Of course, she could be familiar with the name from the Bible}
As for why a chicken, I'd guess because that's typically the go-to animal for sacrifices in jokes like this, or even in movies and tv shows. At least, it's the first one that comes to mind for me. In the shows and movies that are trying to set a more sinister tone the animal might be something like a sheep, but chicken is the first animal that would pop into my head in this scenario.
And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one. To see a code here is to do exactly what the MSM has wrongly accused people of doing with the Podesta emails, which is simply deciding for no apparent reason that one word really means another word in this particular instance. The mere fact that some word is used in a code in some contexts is not a rational justification for thinking it is intended to be understood according to that code in a case where the context and content of the statement not only doesn't require a 'code' interpretation but actually militates against it.
But for pointing all this out, people like ferref label me a shill. Those are the type of people that will undermine the integrity of this investigation and any air of objectivity that should be plainly visible to outsiders coming here to find out what pizzagate is really all about.
Take care
bopper ago
Thanks for all this. Yes, agreed. I myself had a very serious Christian upbringing and so am well aware of Moloch (of the Bible), and in my circles the name would not have been used flippantly like this, therefore I'm not surprised that I myself have never heard it used that way (for good luck). But others may very well, and apparently do. Why not, it would be kind of funny to some.
And right, hard to say whether pop culture or occultism. (Heh, is there a difference anymore?) By context of the email and using the simplest explanation w/out running into any unnecessary rabbit holes I would say pop culture too. But I don't know how 'thick' (tight) the person is w/ the other nutjobs (haven't researched it, no time).
Ditto, chicken for me too, certainly not gonna be a large animal ... the person is thinking in terms of personal convenience, and maybe other things, and humor is a factor.
"And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one ... "
Exactly.
Wish my head was as clear as yours right now (insomnia, not pizzagate related!). You're articulate, don't go anywhere. I knew from the get-go exactly what you were trying to explain. That's why I upvoated you. People can get in a frenzy, that's not gonna help. (Like I said, I always thought **that particular **email was a joke, about good luck.) Still curious about the attic ... I know the Aerosmith song Toys in the Attic, maybe there's a connection : )
heks_ ago
LOL. Are you seriously saying that I sold my soul to Satan because I disagree with what I think is an obviously silly interpretation of this statement that seems to completely ignore its larger context? Look at my other comments on this board.
Once again, I suggest that you look at the context of the statement in question. The interpretation being put forward here is simply not particularly plausible even if you think these people might be involved in occultic pedophilia, which I'm absolutely open to.
heks_ ago
I'm no shill (see my other comments here), but I really don't think this is anything. Look at the statement in the context of the entire sentence and the larger email thread. The email prior to this comment is describing some situation that they hope will work out as they want. Then we see this in response:
It seems pretty obvious to me that what we're seeing here is a joke about three different methods of trying to get good luck or a desired outcome.
Method 1 = Crossing fingers
Method 2 = Using a rabbit's foot
Method 3 = Making a sacrifice to a god
Honestly, I don't see anything remotely sinister here unless you insist that she really meant to do these things literally (i.e. cross her fingers, go into the attic to get a rabbit's foot, then, still having her fingers crossed, sacrifice a chicken), and even then there's no reason in this particular instance to think "chicken" is code for anything, since an actual chicken would make perfect sense here.
It's things like this that teach us the lesson that we need to be ever-vigilant against confirmation bias.
militant ago
I share the same view.
Antiseed117 ago
That statement is too tabbo to be anything but secret code.
amyrebeccajames ago
Molech is the literal child sacrifice god, not the chicken sacrifice god... he's not Colonel Sanders.
amyrebeccajames ago
Is a Satanist more likely to kill a person to please Molech, or a chicken? In the beginning of the history of this god, Molech was the god that people would offer their children to as a sacrifice. This was because they were in Babylon, having orgies, and having lots of unwanted babies. Satan is happier with the destruction of a human life, than he is with the destruction of a chicken life. Chickenlover = pedo slang for boy lover. IDK, you can think it was just a coincidence if you want. I am simply asking what other people think. So thank you for your two cents.
heks_ ago
1) Both children and animals were sacrificed to Moloch
2) It seems to me that you're simply assuming she knew anything about Moloch beyond the name, for example, knowing enough to know that children were sacrificed, but not enough to know that animals were sacrificed. Now, maybe you're right that she was intimately familiar with Moloch, but then that causes a problem if you're assuming she didn't know animals were also sacrificed. So your argument seems to require that she have a very specific amount of knowledge, but no more.
3) You have to assume that she meant all this literally rather than as a joke that went along with the other two references to courting good luck. Do you think she literally crossed her fingers and got the rabbit's foot out of the attic? If not, why think she literally sacrificed a chicken, much less a child, and in her backyard of all places?
I suspect you might think I'm a shill or something for taking a stand against this, but precisely the opposite is true. I think there is legitimate cause for concern about pizzagate and warrant for an investigation to determine whether or not the pizzagate suspicions are true. I'm also thoroughly annoyed by how badly the MSM has misrepresented this issue. But in this particular case this truly seems to me like a clear case of confirmation bias and a complete abandonment of objectivity and healthy skepticism, which only gives justification to the MSM for ignoring pizzagate. I see zero reason to believe she literally did any of the 3 things she mentioned here, and this sentence gives no telltale indications that it is employing "chicken" as a code word. When you read this whole thing in context, this statement simply comes off as a kind of joke expressing her hope that things described in the prior email turn out as desired.
naturehelps ago
Look again at the poster of the pizza place in NY that Clinton likes, the one with grisly images and a summer solstice advertised. They mention roasting chickens.
amyrebeccajames ago
I haven't seen this yet. Do you know the name of the place? Or perhaps you have a link?
MurrueLaFlaga ago
From this post: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1501634
The place is called Roberta's Pizza: https://sli.mg/QQNvJq.png
More on Roberta's Pizza: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1483755
amyrebeccajames ago
According to this Satanic calendar, the Maypole dance occurs during one of the 8 Sabbaths on April 30. Since this references the maypole dance I am thinking there must be human sacrifice implied. If you look here: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/satanic_calendar.htm 30 April May night/Maypole dance April 30 Walpurgis night/Beltane: One of the most important nights on the satanic calendar. Blood rituals and human sacrifice take place.
amyrebeccajames ago
WOW. Could that be any more Satanic? And you know what used to be in Mead? It was a mixture of menstrual blood and ale or wine.
MurrueLaFlaga ago
Eughhh what? They serve mead at Renaissance Faires still...new stuff, sure, but still. That's truly disturbing.
Also, yes, that poster is ridiculously and obviously Satanic. Anyone who says that is just art is evil in my eyes.
amyrebeccajames ago
Yep. I did a bit of research on witches drinking menstrual blood a couple of years back. It's the origin of Mead.
contrarianism ago
This aint no bbq, pal. These people worship Moloch as a deity. Moloch only takes child sacrifice.
amyrebeccajames ago
about as rational as thinking that all pizza references and hot dog references are to actual pizza and hotdogs?
amyrebeccajames ago
Because Pedophiles always think of Moloch every time that they consume barbecued chicken?
molehairz ago
Seriously who even casually makes jokes about sacrifices to a pagan god in the first place? No matter what context someone tries to put this, it's just very weird and out of place period
amyrebeccajames ago
exactly... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anCWxm2Jtg more on Moloch and child sacrifice
amyrebeccajames ago
Here is some more info on the person who said this. http://afgj.org/us-representative-at-oas-calls-zelaya-return-“irresponsible” "Lew Amselem, our rep to OAS"
amyrebeccajames ago
Chickenlover = a gay pedophile who likes little boys Is this chicken this staffer planned to sacrifice to Moloch actually a child? Traditionally Molech is the god of child sacrifice.
whitehand ago
Molech is also what they named their pagan idol at Bohemian Grove where they perform a "mock" human sacrifice. Hillary would know all about this since Bill was frequently a Bohemian Grove attendee.
C4H9N3O2 ago
God of money and child sacrifice, IIRC.