Why don't you try answering the questions and points in my comments above? The only thing you could try to argue is even remotely unique in her comment is the specific name of the god she used. As a general statement there's nothing unique about it. Making a sacrifice to a pagan god is not a unique or unusual joke in the context of hoping for luck. Now, you could try to come up with a reason for why she might have chosen Moloch in particular (Bohemian Grove might be a suggestion, but it seems highly questionable whether an Owl has ever been used to depict Moloch), but I suspect that it would be pure speculation (though I'm open to any info suggesting otherwise). It could be random. She could have come across it somewhere recently, or it might just be part of her background knowledge for either innocent or nefarious reasons. Either way, there's a real hurdle here to claiming that the most plausible interpretation of this statement is that she literally did any of these things, much less that she sacrificed a child instead of a chicken.
I agree with you heks, I've understood the statement for a while to be simply about good luck, the weird part is the mention of Moloch (never heard of it in 'popular vernacular' referring to good luck but then I've also never heard, nor do I now understand, the significance of the attic). Guess I could google it. But yes, a lot of confirmation bias, which can confuse. Again, funny how they mention Moloch, but then, as I say, maybe it's good luck phraseology that I'm not familiar with ... if the majority of the population isn't aware of this (good luck) use of the term, then it's kind of striking to have been mentioned by this particular group of people. Indeed, it's also not referring to a literal BBQ or the actual cooking of a chicken 'in the backyard.' Very doubtful. But why is it a chicken? Oh well.
Yes, as I've mentioned in this thread, the only thing about this statement that might be interpreted as slightly unusual is the specific mention of "Moloch" by name. Could this be because she's involved in the occult in some fashion? Sure. I guess so. That's not a particularly implausible answer given some of the other info that has been discovered. But then again, Moloch has gotten a lot play in popular culture over the course of many generations, to the point that the usage here might not be considered all that unusual.
From the linked page:
The Canaanite god Moloch was the recipient of child sacrifice according to the account of the Hebrew Bible as well as Greco-Roman historiography on the god of Carthage. Moloch is depicted in John Milton's Paradise Lost as one of the greatest warriors of the rebel angels, vengeful and militant.
In the 19th century, "Moloch" came to be used allegorically, of any idol or cause requiring excessive sacrifice.[1] Bertrand Russell in 1903 used Moloch to describe oppressive religion, and Winston Churchill in his 1948 history The Gathering Storm used Moloch as a metaphor for Adolf Hitler's cult of personality.
I'm not sure what her pop-culture references are, so it's hard to say whether she's more likely to be familiar with Moloch from pop-culture or occultism. For most people I'd suggest it was pop-culture, but given the information that has been uncovered in recent months it seems much harder to say that with any certainty here.
{EDIT: Of course, she could be familiar with the name from the Bible}
As for why a chicken, I'd guess because that's typically the go-to animal for sacrifices in jokes like this, or even in movies and tv shows. At least, it's the first one that comes to mind for me. In the shows and movies that are trying to set a more sinister tone the animal might be something like a sheep, but chicken is the first animal that would pop into my head in this scenario.
And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one. To see a code here is to do exactly what the MSM has wrongly accused people of doing with the Podesta emails, which is simply deciding for no apparent reason that one word really means another word in this particular instance. The mere fact that some word is used in a code in some contexts is not a rational justification for thinking it is intended to be understood according to that code in a case where the context and content of the statement not only doesn't require a 'code' interpretation but actually militates against it.
But for pointing all this out, people like ferref label me a shill. Those are the type of people that will undermine the integrity of this investigation and any air of objectivity that should be plainly visible to outsiders coming here to find out what pizzagate is really all about.
Thanks for all this. Yes, agreed. I myself had a very serious Christian upbringing and so am well aware of Moloch (of the Bible), and in my circles the name would not have been used flippantly like this, therefore I'm not surprised that I myself have never heard it used that way (for good luck). But others may very well, and apparently do. Why not, it would be kind of funny to some.
And right, hard to say whether pop culture or occultism. (Heh, is there a difference anymore?) By context of the email and using the simplest explanation w/out running into any unnecessary rabbit holes I would say pop culture too. But I don't know how 'thick' (tight) the person is w/ the other nutjobs (haven't researched it, no time).
Ditto, chicken for me too, certainly not gonna be a large animal ... the person is thinking in terms of personal convenience, and maybe other things, and humor is a factor.
"And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one ... "
Exactly.
Wish my head was as clear as yours right now (insomnia, not pizzagate related!). You're articulate, don't go anywhere. I knew from the get-go exactly what you were trying to explain. That's why I upvoated you. People can get in a frenzy, that's not gonna help. (Like I said, I always thought **that particular **email was a joke, about good luck.) Still curious about the attic ... I know the Aerosmith song Toys in the Attic, maybe there's a connection : )
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heks_ ago
Why don't you try answering the questions and points in my comments above? The only thing you could try to argue is even remotely unique in her comment is the specific name of the god she used. As a general statement there's nothing unique about it. Making a sacrifice to a pagan god is not a unique or unusual joke in the context of hoping for luck. Now, you could try to come up with a reason for why she might have chosen Moloch in particular (Bohemian Grove might be a suggestion, but it seems highly questionable whether an Owl has ever been used to depict Moloch), but I suspect that it would be pure speculation (though I'm open to any info suggesting otherwise). It could be random. She could have come across it somewhere recently, or it might just be part of her background knowledge for either innocent or nefarious reasons. Either way, there's a real hurdle here to claiming that the most plausible interpretation of this statement is that she literally did any of these things, much less that she sacrificed a child instead of a chicken.
bopper ago
I agree with you heks, I've understood the statement for a while to be simply about good luck, the weird part is the mention of Moloch (never heard of it in 'popular vernacular' referring to good luck but then I've also never heard, nor do I now understand, the significance of the attic). Guess I could google it. But yes, a lot of confirmation bias, which can confuse. Again, funny how they mention Moloch, but then, as I say, maybe it's good luck phraseology that I'm not familiar with ... if the majority of the population isn't aware of this (good luck) use of the term, then it's kind of striking to have been mentioned by this particular group of people. Indeed, it's also not referring to a literal BBQ or the actual cooking of a chicken 'in the backyard.' Very doubtful. But why is it a chicken? Oh well.
heks_ ago
Hey bopper,
Yes, as I've mentioned in this thread, the only thing about this statement that might be interpreted as slightly unusual is the specific mention of "Moloch" by name. Could this be because she's involved in the occult in some fashion? Sure. I guess so. That's not a particularly implausible answer given some of the other info that has been discovered. But then again, Moloch has gotten a lot play in popular culture over the course of many generations, to the point that the usage here might not be considered all that unusual.
From the linked page:
I'm not sure what her pop-culture references are, so it's hard to say whether she's more likely to be familiar with Moloch from pop-culture or occultism. For most people I'd suggest it was pop-culture, but given the information that has been uncovered in recent months it seems much harder to say that with any certainty here.
{EDIT: Of course, she could be familiar with the name from the Bible}
As for why a chicken, I'd guess because that's typically the go-to animal for sacrifices in jokes like this, or even in movies and tv shows. At least, it's the first one that comes to mind for me. In the shows and movies that are trying to set a more sinister tone the animal might be something like a sheep, but chicken is the first animal that would pop into my head in this scenario.
And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one. To see a code here is to do exactly what the MSM has wrongly accused people of doing with the Podesta emails, which is simply deciding for no apparent reason that one word really means another word in this particular instance. The mere fact that some word is used in a code in some contexts is not a rational justification for thinking it is intended to be understood according to that code in a case where the context and content of the statement not only doesn't require a 'code' interpretation but actually militates against it.
But for pointing all this out, people like ferref label me a shill. Those are the type of people that will undermine the integrity of this investigation and any air of objectivity that should be plainly visible to outsiders coming here to find out what pizzagate is really all about.
Take care
bopper ago
Thanks for all this. Yes, agreed. I myself had a very serious Christian upbringing and so am well aware of Moloch (of the Bible), and in my circles the name would not have been used flippantly like this, therefore I'm not surprised that I myself have never heard it used that way (for good luck). But others may very well, and apparently do. Why not, it would be kind of funny to some.
And right, hard to say whether pop culture or occultism. (Heh, is there a difference anymore?) By context of the email and using the simplest explanation w/out running into any unnecessary rabbit holes I would say pop culture too. But I don't know how 'thick' (tight) the person is w/ the other nutjobs (haven't researched it, no time).
Ditto, chicken for me too, certainly not gonna be a large animal ... the person is thinking in terms of personal convenience, and maybe other things, and humor is a factor.
"And yes, people can say, "'chicken' means a little boy in the pedo-code", but as I've said, there's just no reason to assume any code is being used here. To think a code is being used here is to essentially delegitimize the objectivity of those seeing a code in certain Podesta emails where there really are valid reasons to think there might be one ... "
Exactly.
Wish my head was as clear as yours right now (insomnia, not pizzagate related!). You're articulate, don't go anywhere. I knew from the get-go exactly what you were trying to explain. That's why I upvoated you. People can get in a frenzy, that's not gonna help. (Like I said, I always thought **that particular **email was a joke, about good luck.) Still curious about the attic ... I know the Aerosmith song Toys in the Attic, maybe there's a connection : )