Hello,
Here's why I think this might be the case:
The context
Some years ago, some people in power noticed social media focusing on discussion(reddit) could potentially form a problem somewhere down the dark road they were leading us.
They thought, of course, of simply controling reddit. But that alone wouldn't work, because of something economists call the market.
They needed something ready and effective to take reddit's place for communities banned for their speech from the platform.
The Mechanics, or how they mute and destroy a community making that digital migration
Like mentioned above, the power of these connecting interfaces(socials), in this case reddit, is the sheer amount of free speech.
On voat however, speech is everything but free. The system that selects which content is provided for consumption is based on 'up voats' and 'down voats' that come with rigid restrictions.
Probably the largest part of redditters that migrated here were new users.
A new user can
- Post
- Comment
- Upvoat 10 times a day
A new user NEEDS
-
10 comment points to make unlock more upvoats
-
10 comment points to send a message to someone...
-
100 comment contribution points to downvote(how many times?)
Is there anyone with more insight in the limits that come after these numbers?
Then there is also a character limit that seems completely arbitraty but might be based on voats?
In other words, new users can only be(very) marginal participants in the mechanic that controls for provided content, the voats. Hammering a new user with a few downvoats is all that is needed. New members resort to 'attention seeking' comments and posts to get their voats up. It all adds to the chaos.
They say this about their genius invention:
This requirement was established as a measure to encourage new members to get involved and participate in discussions.
Really? They want to stimulate all the shy guys on the internet to participate? Please...
**What this really is, is a war operation, and I can't understand others can't see this.
**
An example
Have a look at this post
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1467451
The only post made by this contributor.
The top reply to this post was made by a user who also posted this
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1446112
And seems to post a lot of "entertainment " which receives a lot of attention.
This is what they have done: they have provided an extremely flawed(from our POV) system as the replacement of reddit.
They produce some obvious "shilling" on it
They say reply to themselves, wahah! Don't worry, these "shills" are so stupid, it's so obvious! We destroyed them on reddit and we will destroy them here.
No, we will not, because reddit didn't have restrictive voats.
Not only speech in written words needs to be free. Judgment of that speech needs to be free too, this is maybe even more important.
Maybe the real pizzagatekeepers should dig a little into with what money Atif Colo conjured this little site into existence in 2014.
amCassandraAMA ago
This very thread is distraction. It is entangling people into a useless argument that ultimately has no answer at all.
Bentastixc ago
The answer is for this community to get out of this deathtrap of a site.
amCassandraAMA ago
suggest a better one
UglyTruth ago
They're definitely undesirable if you don't want the facts about PizzaGate to be known.
Bentastixc ago
My point is that there may be many people that have nothing substantial to add! Maybe they dont have time to research?
That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to JUDGE on the same foot as everyone else. The massiveness, the number of people, is what filters bad from good. Open your eyes.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
from the most outspoken goat on this and other voat issues:
you're hitting just the tip of the iceberg.
Bentastixc ago
What does that have to do with it? The problem is that new users can not participate in what content is produced.
Phobos_Mothership ago
Every time we get a reddit migration, this post happens.
The required comment contribution to downvote posts is 100 so that you have to EARN The right to downvote by participating in the communities on Voat. The 'daily upvotes' limit increases the more upvotes you have. This is all put in place to make sure that people can't make a 1.2 day old account (like yours) and immediately be able to shill.
Bentastixc ago
I know what your sales story is. I'm arguing here it hampers free speech. Discuss my points. This is like early democracy where only citizens paying enough taxes were allowed to vote.
EDIT: Like your downvoting now. I can not downvote you. Is that not silencing my speech? How can you decide for other people whether they want to read this or not?
VictorSteinerDavion ago
New users may not have the ability to downvote until conditions are met, but they can comment and participate.
To call that a restriction of free speech is to intentionally dilute the meaning and intention of the concept of free speech.
Voting on reddit is a form of speech that involves much lower levels of effort than here and therefore is much easier to abuse and use as a "I don't like what you say" button.
Here, the way you say "I don't like what you say" is by commenting and saying as much. If your commentary adds to the community, you will get upvotes.
This method requires you to be more than a low effort grazer looking for facebag thrills
If you see content not getting the attention it deserves, re-submit it with more effort applied to the title and the description.
The thing Voat is intended to do is halt the flood of low effort lazy people who simply want to graze a stream of information and contribute nothing back into the stream.
If you are not happy with being required to actively participate, move along to another venue that is better suited to your needs.
Coming into an existing community and demanding it bend to your wants, to the exclusion of the wants of others, is something that simply won't work here.
Cantilever ago
Exactly
amCassandraAMA ago
It's simple: it's called a Meritocraty
this system is not only an evolution from reddit, but also from 4chan. 4chan is the frest of all, but ahving absolutely no restriction on the instream of accounts can get pretty tiring at times. This way the shills at least have to fall back on astroturfing before they can get to work.
The whataboutism whether this is impending free speech or if reddits system is ultimately more better is just philosophical masturbation. This is a pragmatic solution, it is far from perfect
Sliding is only effective if your community is lazy.
Bentastixc ago
Yes, in theory.
But the reality is that you only need a fraction of the manpower to control the narrative. On this Pizzagate page, they need only a handful of guys who are able to downvoat in order to prevent something coming through "new". This is not philosophical masturbation, I claim this looks like it was designed to control dissent.
UglyTruth ago
Free speech includes the freedom to defame and mislead. Freedom and liberty are not the same thing, freedom is more consistent with anarchy.
ThorTheWonderful ago
This compares more to immigration! This is a forum populated by immigrants, the early immigrants founded this forum (The founding Fathers)by a battle for independence (had a job to pay for this) and created the right for them to be here (web hosting), since then, many new migrants have joined (mostly erddits), they visit, they like, some don't, they leave. The test of time is the oath they take before they have the right to voat. This is important because commies (shills) can come and use the power of the voat to destroy it from within (infiltration in mass), it is imperative to maintain voat vetting process for the security of these freedoms.
Do you get the drift?
Go though it fair and square like everybody else and you will earn your voat!
Phobos_Mothership ago
Wow, did you just compare having to participate in a conversation in order to voat on it to having to PAY to voat on it?
You should just go back to ()Eddit, where you can downvote to your heart's content. People are expressing their opinion every time they click that downvote or upvote arrow, would you like to SILENCE Their opinions?
Bentastixc ago
No. I want everyone to have the same rights.
It is not about participating. You can not downvoat someone because of his lack of participation. Only for participation! If you would merely measure participation, downvoats should count toward the positive a well.
It is OPINION MAKING you are engaged in here This reeks of some operation of the intelligence community It totally destroys the organic dynamics of online communities.
Phobos_Mothership ago
Really? Because it sounds like you want to be able to downvote without participating in any actual conversations.
If we just 'measured participation' instead of CSS to determine if you could downvote, any shill could go to any dead forum, spam a bunch of meaningless posts, and tehn be free to shillvote to their heart's content.
GO BACK TO ()EDDIT. The rules that you want are ()eddit's rules. However, this is Voat, and voat is better than ()eddit.
Bentastixc ago
I'm here trying to convince the Pizzagate community to be an informed consumer and change their choice from this deathtrap.
Phobos_Mothership ago
You're failing. Go home to ()eddit.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
This person is using a technique to cause us to expend energy in order to tire us and cause us to quit.
There's no point in trying to convert this person their goal is to cause us to waste time.
I hold a personal rule of not replying more than twice if it's apparent that the person is not willing to have an honest discussion.
Reading the other replys by this person in this thread I can see they are unwilling to consider their position and understand it might not be a 'right' as they have convinced themselves.
If someone is unwilling to consider that they may be in error no amount of discussion can change that.
Something that is worth considering are these concepts, it's not worded how I would phrase it, but it is a solid foundation to help deconstruct the types of comments I see here
r3dtr1x ago
They don't even try to stop the shills. No email address required. You can create a new account in seconds. It's laughable.
amCassandraAMA ago
because emails stop anybody
Bentastixc ago
The shills are not the problem. The shills will be dealt with, naturally, in a truly free environment. The voats are the problem.
UglyTruth ago
Why do you think that voating is a problem?
Bentastixc ago
I explain that in the post. The mass is much much easier to control with the barrier they put in place.
UglyTruth ago
Shouldn't controls should be in place to prevent false information from propagating?
Bentastixc ago
Listen to yourself. You're sounding exactly like the MSM. No speech should be restricted, not even false info.
It is the role of those that consume info, the people, to judge.
UglyTruth ago
So you would be OK with it if I DOXed you and said you were a baby raper?