Devil's advocate, but couldn't this potentially interfere with the people's due process? I mean isn't he essentially doxxing people he believes are pedophiles before they have their day in court? I understand that he would have contacted them online and they may have turned up to meet what they thought were underage people, but that's not my point. I know voat is staunchly anti-pedo, but I'm not defending pedophiles, I'm defending due process. If we let it erode for those we despise, then it simultaneously erodes for those we like as well, even though we may not witness it right away.
I keep saying this to no end but many seem to miss my point. I'm not advocating that these men are nessacarily innocent or good by any means. But in all instances there's either no child involved nor is this done using a service that allows underage users for the most part. The genuine pedos are probably using more sophisticated means or only target family members. It's apparent that these tactics are only playing on internet hysteria and the desperation of the sickos involved. The guys they're busting appear quite inept at even tricking overweight desperate adult women, I really doubt there's many young children who are genuinely going for the losers on adult dating websites. They've probably got better options IRL with people in their age group. And if they happen to be using a dating site I'm certain they would be more predatory towards young alpha boys/girls who would have to meet the parents.
You only have to look as far as PizzaGate to think that there are sophisticated rings. These people that are "catching" these types of pedos are essentially picking the low hanging fruit. Which is unfortunate when you think about the thousands of children that are being sold into sexual slavery.
I think you are right. Hes saying he jist 'handed them over' to police. So basically he is a self appointed cop and days he is not even thoughj that is exactly what he is doing.
Hell if this is legal why not let everyone be cops woth no training or background check. Also if you simply imagine this is appropriate you could see him meeting another self appointed cop who was 'just indercover'. I suppose if he werent mak8ng citizens arrests it would be legal but that is not what the article says.
I sure would like to baot a package thief with a package with gps on my porch and then follow them and seat their house. But thats illegal because i am not a vop.
If someone is raping a child or distirbing the public peace and it is valled for, i might perform a citozens arrest
As far as I'm aware, if there is someone that is clearly breaking a law then it is perfectly legal to perform a citizen's arrest. But you also leave yourself open to legal action potentially, which cops wouldn't have to worry so much about as they have the departments resources to deal with all that.
The reason cops don't run the risk isn't because of departmental resources but because of the law. They have legal immunity because they are empowered by the state and operating with its powers. There are very few instances in which a private citizen is empowered to make a citizens arrest and even fewer where they would enjoy any sort of immunity from liability for anything they did wrong while doing so.
Well it would depend on the jurisdiction but in the US you can generally only perform a citizens arrest if someone is physically endangering the public.
This meme is Jewish propaganda. Why that narrative exists is obvious if you understand what Jews are and what they strive to do. It's the idea that only the Jewish-infested court system can deliver "justice". That even the outsider, the pervert, the Jew, the violent animal have rights.
Well they don't.
And they shouldn't. And the illusion that they should must be dispensed with.
Lynching and vigilantism are both perfectly good ways to combat corrupt institutions and violent criminals. They are perfectly good ways to deliver justice, real and swift. And they worked fine for a very long time, transferring power away from centralized structures and directly into the hands of fathers and communities and volk.
The more harsh the punishment is not correlated with reduced offending. There is pretty clear evidence of this. In fact the more harsh the punishment, the more a person is likely to do more harm. E.g. If they know they are going to be put on death row or shot anyway, then why not go all out and do as much as you can before you die? It is arguably more important to defend due process for people that we despise. SJWs like to use similar logic, in that they don't want people they perceive to be "right-wing" to have any rights. That ring-wing people shouldn't be able to have freedom of speech/thought. But the problem is when the tide turns they will be on the receiving end, so we all need to fight to have rights, whether it be due process, freedom of speech/expression etc. Otherwise what's the point?
That talmudism doesn't work, because deterrents clearly work and work well.
Let the violent go ahead and die and try to do as much damage as they can, if they can. That's what we used to do in Europe. It's called enforcing the law. Eventually the criminal element is effectively bred out of the population.
Otherwise what's the point?
The point is not equality, or rights, but civilization - the passing down of our memes and genes to our sons.
If you're just going to go out and give rough treatment to pedophiles, that's one thing. But this bald bearded attention seeker is trying to play it both ways.
One can be against both pedophiles AND attention-seeking fuckwits, with no ideological conflict. If his real goal was to capture pedophiles and prevent child abuse, then he wouldn't be grandstanding on the internet while engaging in criminally chargeable behaviors.
If the guys goal is really fighting pedophiles, then he should stop committing crimes and get some kind of legal standing to do so. (Join law enforcement, create a legally sanctioned org, etc.) As it is, he's just a criminal attacking other criminals.
His personal appearance and methodology leads me to believe his primary goal is seeking attention.
Who said he committed a crime other than the cops, who BTW commit them every day. A citizen arrest is quite lawful anywhere in the US. The cops don't like competition nor do they like being embarrassed so he must have stepped on a few toes along the way.
They're still innocent, he's not disrupting due process. He's not slandering either. These are all facts. Pedophile sexts what he thinks is a 14 year old, this guy simply makes that action public. Next time ask for an NDA if you want to sext a child privately. /s
This is no where, not even in the same ballpark as the paid Donald trump and Roy Moore accusers with zero evidence for a she said he said bullshit 30 years ago.
doxing would be publishing the pedofags' information online. all this guy is doing is just saying "hey police, i found a degenerate you need to lock up"
Doxing is not illegal and thus no issue of due process.
Due process isn't about legality. Legality relates primarily to civil process.
Due process of law: Law in its regular course of administration through courts of justice. Due process of law in each particular case means such an exercise of the powers of the government as the settled maxims of law permit and sanction, and under such safeguards for the protection of individual rights as those maxims prescribe for the class of cases to which the one in question belongs. A course of legal proceedings according to those rules and principles which have been established in our systems of jurisprudence for the enforcement and protection of private rights. (Black's 5th edition).
If they feel he has defamed him its a matter of libel/slander.
Feelings don't matter here. Libel/slander is fundamentally about malicious intent, but it's typically prosecuted by the facts.
Being put on that list is considered to be a punishment by the US government.
It's only done to those who have been found guilty of something. This guy is bypassing the courts and putting all of the accused up as if they were guilty, without any real process to decide if it's correct to do so.
Not saying that the justice system is perfect, but it's a damn site better than one guy ambushing people and assuming their guilt.
A citizen can post this information, and the legal remedy is to sue for slander/libel if untrue. There is nothing illegal in the act of posting the data, and if he has the proof, he knows they cannot sue him for defamation.
Well however you want to word it. I mean what if someone was found to be innocent, they would have their lives essentially ruined in the same way that guys get their lives ruined by false rape accusers. If you're going to do that stuff then maybe blur their face out etc. You can still hand them over to police and have them arrested/ have their day in court. It's easy to say yeah just charge the guy with libel/slander but I imagine it would be near impossible to come back from being accused of pedophillia. I like what the guy is doing but I also think the police have a point and it's not just as cut and dry as the article suggests, and that it was simply due to him being supposedly more effective than the police force.
I mean what if someone was found to be innocent, they would have their lives essentially ruined in the same way that guys get their lives ruined by false rape accusers.
You bring up a good point. The media is responsible for trying to smear the POTUS without any proof.
view the rest of the comments →
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
Devil's advocate, but couldn't this potentially interfere with the people's due process? I mean isn't he essentially doxxing people he believes are pedophiles before they have their day in court? I understand that he would have contacted them online and they may have turned up to meet what they thought were underage people, but that's not my point. I know voat is staunchly anti-pedo, but I'm not defending pedophiles, I'm defending due process. If we let it erode for those we despise, then it simultaneously erodes for those we like as well, even though we may not witness it right away.
selpai ago
Yeah, the publicity is a potential problem. However, he's not depriving them of anything that they are constitutionally promised.
l_voated_today ago
Don't police departments frequently release the names of people arrested long before they are convicted?
Thisismyvoatusername ago
That happens in the US but I think that is fairly rare elsewhere. We also have perp walks which I don't think exist elsewhere.
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
I'm not sure actually, it is possible they do. May depend on the jurisdiction.
prairie ago
In other words, this guy might screw up a case against one, preventing him from being put away.
killercanuck ago
I keep saying this to no end but many seem to miss my point. I'm not advocating that these men are nessacarily innocent or good by any means. But in all instances there's either no child involved nor is this done using a service that allows underage users for the most part. The genuine pedos are probably using more sophisticated means or only target family members. It's apparent that these tactics are only playing on internet hysteria and the desperation of the sickos involved. The guys they're busting appear quite inept at even tricking overweight desperate adult women, I really doubt there's many young children who are genuinely going for the losers on adult dating websites. They've probably got better options IRL with people in their age group. And if they happen to be using a dating site I'm certain they would be more predatory towards young alpha boys/girls who would have to meet the parents.
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
You only have to look as far as PizzaGate to think that there are sophisticated rings. These people that are "catching" these types of pedos are essentially picking the low hanging fruit. Which is unfortunate when you think about the thousands of children that are being sold into sexual slavery.
Mytempacct20171001 ago
I think you are right. Hes saying he jist 'handed them over' to police. So basically he is a self appointed cop and days he is not even thoughj that is exactly what he is doing.
Hell if this is legal why not let everyone be cops woth no training or background check. Also if you simply imagine this is appropriate you could see him meeting another self appointed cop who was 'just indercover'. I suppose if he werent mak8ng citizens arrests it would be legal but that is not what the article says.
I sure would like to baot a package thief with a package with gps on my porch and then follow them and seat their house. But thats illegal because i am not a vop.
If someone is raping a child or distirbing the public peace and it is valled for, i might perform a citozens arrest
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
As far as I'm aware, if there is someone that is clearly breaking a law then it is perfectly legal to perform a citizen's arrest. But you also leave yourself open to legal action potentially, which cops wouldn't have to worry so much about as they have the departments resources to deal with all that.
Thisismyvoatusername ago
The reason cops don't run the risk isn't because of departmental resources but because of the law. They have legal immunity because they are empowered by the state and operating with its powers. There are very few instances in which a private citizen is empowered to make a citizens arrest and even fewer where they would enjoy any sort of immunity from liability for anything they did wrong while doing so.
Mytempacct20171001 ago
Thats not true at all. What state do you live in?
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
Which part isn't true? Not in the US.
Mytempacct20171001 ago
Well it would depend on the jurisdiction but in the US you can generally only perform a citizens arrest if someone is physically endangering the public.
I live in TX so here basicall6 if someone is disturbing the peace. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.14.htm
It depends on the statenin tx if you walk in on rape or a kidnapping you are presumed legally justified to use deadly force.
So for theft you can arrest someone but baiting and entrapment are different.
lissencarak ago
Look at that blue-pilled faggotry.
This meme is Jewish propaganda. Why that narrative exists is obvious if you understand what Jews are and what they strive to do. It's the idea that only the Jewish-infested court system can deliver "justice". That even the outsider, the pervert, the Jew, the violent animal have rights.
Well they don't.
And they shouldn't. And the illusion that they should must be dispensed with.
Lynching and vigilantism are both perfectly good ways to combat corrupt institutions and violent criminals. They are perfectly good ways to deliver justice, real and swift. And they worked fine for a very long time, transferring power away from centralized structures and directly into the hands of fathers and communities and volk.
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
The more harsh the punishment is not correlated with reduced offending. There is pretty clear evidence of this. In fact the more harsh the punishment, the more a person is likely to do more harm. E.g. If they know they are going to be put on death row or shot anyway, then why not go all out and do as much as you can before you die? It is arguably more important to defend due process for people that we despise. SJWs like to use similar logic, in that they don't want people they perceive to be "right-wing" to have any rights. That ring-wing people shouldn't be able to have freedom of speech/thought. But the problem is when the tide turns they will be on the receiving end, so we all need to fight to have rights, whether it be due process, freedom of speech/expression etc. Otherwise what's the point?
lissencarak ago
That talmudism doesn't work, because deterrents clearly work and work well.
Let the violent go ahead and die and try to do as much damage as they can, if they can. That's what we used to do in Europe. It's called enforcing the law. Eventually the criminal element is effectively bred out of the population.
The point is not equality, or rights, but civilization - the passing down of our memes and genes to our sons.
Tsilent_Tsunami ago
Also assaulting a couple of them, according to the charges. That's an anti-cop site, so take their claims and lack of links with a grain of assault.
DeputySprinkles ago
“Assault” is a very generic term. It can be anything from an unwanted touch to spittle that landed on someone during a screaming match.
Tsilent_Tsunami ago
If you're just going to go out and give rough treatment to pedophiles, that's one thing. But this bald bearded attention seeker is trying to play it both ways.
One can be against both pedophiles AND attention-seeking fuckwits, with no ideological conflict. If his real goal was to capture pedophiles and prevent child abuse, then he wouldn't be grandstanding on the internet while engaging in criminally chargeable behaviors.
BlowjaySimpson ago
I fucking guarantee that just means the pedos put up a fight. Cops should be ashamed of themselves.
Tsilent_Tsunami ago
If the guys goal is really fighting pedophiles, then he should stop committing crimes and get some kind of legal standing to do so. (Join law enforcement, create a legally sanctioned org, etc.) As it is, he's just a criminal attacking other criminals.
His personal appearance and methodology leads me to believe his primary goal is seeking attention.
edistojim ago
Who said he committed a crime other than the cops, who BTW commit them every day. A citizen arrest is quite lawful anywhere in the US. The cops don't like competition nor do they like being embarrassed so he must have stepped on a few toes along the way.
Tsilent_Tsunami ago
I suspect you haven't read many law books.
Cite and quote the statute. Then briefly explain the permissible use of force during a citizens arrest in any state you choose.
SayTan ago
The new theory seems to be "innocent, unless accused by anybody".
Nprpropaganda ago
They're still innocent, he's not disrupting due process. He's not slandering either. These are all facts. Pedophile sexts what he thinks is a 14 year old, this guy simply makes that action public. Next time ask for an NDA if you want to sext a child privately. /s
This is no where, not even in the same ballpark as the paid Donald trump and Roy Moore accusers with zero evidence for a she said he said bullshit 30 years ago.
chuckletrousers ago
It makes the cops look bad
InfoTeddy ago
doxing would be publishing the pedofags' information online. all this guy is doing is just saying "hey police, i found a degenerate you need to lock up"
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
The article states that he did publish the info.
BlowjaySimpson ago
The pedo was already a registered sex offender. Identity was already public.
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
In that case it's okay, but that wasn't really my point.
InfoTeddy ago
holy shit im retarded
time to kill myself
firex726 ago
Doxing is not illegal and thus no issue of due process. If they feel he has defamed him its a matter of libel/slander.
Random101 ago
Due process isn't about legality. Legality relates primarily to civil process.
Due process of law: Law in its regular course of administration through courts of justice. Due process of law in each particular case means such an exercise of the powers of the government as the settled maxims of law permit and sanction, and under such safeguards for the protection of individual rights as those maxims prescribe for the class of cases to which the one in question belongs. A course of legal proceedings according to those rules and principles which have been established in our systems of jurisprudence for the enforcement and protection of private rights. (Black's 5th edition).
Feelings don't matter here. Libel/slander is fundamentally about malicious intent, but it's typically prosecuted by the facts.
BlowjaySimpson ago
Police criticized him for exposing the identity of a sex offender, but I thought that is the fucking purpose of THE SEX OFFENDERS REGISTRY.
ShinyVoater ago
This guy was operating in 'Stralia. I'm not sure of the exact situation with that guy, but their land, their rules.
DiscontentedMajority ago
Being put on that list is considered to be a punishment by the US government.
It's only done to those who have been found guilty of something. This guy is bypassing the courts and putting all of the accused up as if they were guilty, without any real process to decide if it's correct to do so.
Not saying that the justice system is perfect, but it's a damn site better than one guy ambushing people and assuming their guilt.
reasonedandinformed ago
A citizen can post this information, and the legal remedy is to sue for slander/libel if untrue. There is nothing illegal in the act of posting the data, and if he has the proof, he knows they cannot sue him for defamation.
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
Well however you want to word it. I mean what if someone was found to be innocent, they would have their lives essentially ruined in the same way that guys get their lives ruined by false rape accusers. If you're going to do that stuff then maybe blur their face out etc. You can still hand them over to police and have them arrested/ have their day in court. It's easy to say yeah just charge the guy with libel/slander but I imagine it would be near impossible to come back from being accused of pedophillia. I like what the guy is doing but I also think the police have a point and it's not just as cut and dry as the article suggests, and that it was simply due to him being supposedly more effective than the police force.
BlowjaySimpson ago
If he grooms kids online and shows up to fuck one, that isn't erosion of due process. Don't be a fucking retard.
Thisismyvoatusername ago
You are assuming anyone he posts was truly grooming kids online and showing up to fuck them. What makes you so confident in this guy?
GizaDog ago
You bring up a good point. The media is responsible for trying to smear the POTUS without any proof.
fortuitouslyunfallen ago
Exactly.