Observational thesis:
-
There is alarmed response from many users as to the number of false positives in this round of abuse banning. Questions include the communication of the event, to the inability for banned users to appeal because they were unable to PM and new account creation had been disabled.
-
The voting system, which is currently relied on for various sub-purposes (spam control, content prioritization) is also being weaponized in various ways that are destructive to the community, which directly threatens Voat’s intended purpose of Free Speech by “running people out of town”. From new accounts being -CCP into 24-hour lock-outs to organized groups promoting or silencing content and users for their own ends.
-
It’s demonstrable through a full two days of conversations that everyone has a different opinion of what Voat stands for. If I understand @PuttItOut, and he’s going to need to correct me if this isn’t right, then Voat stands for Free Speech, within the limits of U.S. law seeing as how Voat is a U.S. based Company and must abide by U.S. Law. Fundamentally this suggests Voat stands for something which is the opposite of the other tech companies that have opted to instead censor based on Global laws. I strongly feel this often goes underappreciated from the community.
So what can be done?
-
The reality is that unfettered abuse of the voting system today is destructive to the community and is a problem that needs to be addressed. There have been many discussions today on this subject alone in the sticky’s and other threads. This overall idea now rolls into #2 below..
-
The voting system can be improved. There have been so many suggestions today, but one I didn’t hear suggested seems so simple as a way to both address the overall concern from as many angles as possible as well as to maintain the functionality of spam prevention and content prioritization in a natural way - just make the voting completely transparent; it serves multiple good purposes but because it’s private there will always be disagreements on it. Select X date in the future and re-design the voting so that you can see everyone else’s votes from then on. With transparency we can have open community discussions on what voting habits we can observe and what constructive improvements can be had to further grow the community based on what everyone can see with their own eyes. At the very least, this puts everyone from all sides of the arguments on the same level playing field to find effective compromise.
-
Putt’s house, Putt’s rules. Putt can address how to make what is and is not a bannable offense more defined – and you have the decision to make on if you agree with him or not. This is no more complicated than going to Putt’s house and pissing all over his toilet seat and then having to make the decision on if you respect a man’s house and clean that shit up or if you don’t give a fuck for whatever reason and leave it a mess. That man gets to decide if you ever get invited back to his house when he cleans up your piss, or if he gives you a warning to stop it. Let’s work with Putt to come to a consensus.
Everyone has the responsibility to wisely pick who you associate with – and I’m going to stay where I know I can say what I want and not be removed for doing it. Free Speech matters to me, and everywhere else is willing to sell out – and that includes selling you out. As long as Voat demonstrates to me that it has values (Free Speech within U.S. Law) that I can abide by, then I don't want to see those values go away and I want this community to grow. If you don't want this community to grow, I cannot see how we can be allies.
P.S. My #4 would have been the complete and total elimination of anonymous posting. It serves no positive purpose in any sense other than as a method for a group to communicate while feeling more secured about their usernames, as Putt has explained that even he can't "un-mask" the anon posting.
In my opinion you could just remove traditional anon posting and replace it with "private" subs where people can be selectively invited and only these subs are allowed to use anon function - now you've solved most of the skin-deep anon problems, while at the same time anon remains for the only purpose I can possibly imagine it serves everyone without complaint - higher security "group specific" posting that even Voat cannot be forced to give to an entity that may demand data from Voat, simply because it's technically impossible for them to do so because of how the masking is designed.. hint hint.
Nadeshda ago
Nice Post sorry I missed it! Thanks for letting me know. You are pretty smart... I wonder it this was noted much needs more eyes...
virge ago
Because it directly countermines the methods used by various subversive groups on Voat.
It's why I've been a target of PV ever since.
Nadeshda ago
Oh man every way I turn lately there are niggles that are niggling people...
I don’t know what to say.
virge ago
I understand.
Nadeshda ago
Thank you that in this digital world actually means something. Have a good day!
heygeorge ago
Yes. Many dangers to free speech exist!
It’s disingenuous to pretend the threat potential of lolicon is exclusive. It reeks of a personal morality-based quest or other ulterior motive.
heygeorge ago
How many of these countries have stricter policies on hate speech than the US? Looking solely through the lens of lolicon legality may not solve the hypothetical problem you’re seeking to alleviate. And from there, do we slide down the slippery slope to banning hate speech... lewdness... political viewpoints? Because of a hypothetical situation?
WhiteRonin ago
I’m gonna post what my original idea was.
Screw votes. Completely!
Yeah, I know it’s a spam deflector but it cause lore problems than it solves. People bitch about all the time and vote brigades help noobs out. No win situation.
Your solution doesn’t solve alts either. Why do alts exist? Sometimes just to burn a user that you posted too much shit too. So create a new one. Many times it’s to combat down vote brigades.
Look, your transparency only deals with possible problems that were created by having votes to begin with. I want full retroactive transparency to burn all the fuckers who were on vote brigades. Trust me, the good guys started a lot of the shit and shit posters reacted. Simple.
Retroactive transparency would fuck up voat big time. Putt knows this. Many good reputations would get burned in hell. Loss of users. Loss of revenue, voat would need to rebuild and the angels wouldn’t like this. See!?! If you figured this out earlier, I would have made fun of you.
Now how to solve this
Nobody wanted to hear about it because god Putt solider want to bless the idea. It’s really simple.
Convert the report button to a spam one. -10/-20 would make the post/comment invisible and tagged for review. Yeah, that’s the shit part, moderation is needed. FB spends millions on humans to moderate posts and ads because AI doesn’t work well enough. If FB can’t figure out an algorithm, Putt sure as hell will have trouble with his vote manipulation thingy.
But people like imaginary points. Napoleon gave badges to his Marshals. People like this shit. But funny how many coding forums don’t use it. Number of post counts are enough to earn reputation. Some have likes that are transparent. Down likes too that are transparent. But they are at the bottom of a reply and you can see it all. So, I guess a voting system could still work ... but having it on the side like now, it only causes problems.
If you break up anon ... I’m 50-50 on it. Currently, it’s easy to abuse. Pings are the problem and so are people who have a grudge. Why do grudges continue to anon? Because they can. But wouldn’t grudges decline if people didn’t get down brigaded? Hence problems with votes.
The biggest issue with my idea is the human checks and also metrics that put posts to the top page. Early on this was needed. But today, it just distracts from other content. We have enough people here now that we don’t need to see that same article for a whole day on top. Besides, it’s just more imaginary points but faggets love those points.
I am still leaning toward the spam button to clean up posts. And likes for comments at the bottom if with need to keep votes. If they are visible to all it breaks the brigades and gives people credit.
Just my two cents from that asshole!
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BigFatDaddy ago
The only real problem I see with unmasking votes is that it doesn't address what I think it the biggest problem on Voat regarding voting; which is people using alts. Some assholes on this site have who knows how many alt accounts and use them to manipulate voting. Unmasking the votes won't mean anything if it just shows a long ass list of alts only belonging to 5 or 6 people. Limiting or eliminating the ability of people to create and use alt accounts is far more important for protecting the integrity of Voat's votes IMHO.
virge ago
Valid point. Dial_Indicator is an example.
kjhasd758756 ago
This has been and oh mine for year virge, everyone knows it... I have many other @puttitout @kevdude
And no I dont manipulate this is a kevdude lie
https://youtu.be/pIwguLNQ8Ws
virge ago
Dial, whenever you say "everyone knows it" you are making an absolute statement that most people can immediately identify as not true.
You can soap box all day but very few people will take you seriously until you actually act serious. I've never seen a serious reply from you yet.
kjhasd758756 ago
look at you, as a matter of fact... a lot of people take me seriously..
Your continual push to defame my character will only go as far as KevNugget has attempted in the past.
You severely underestimate me.
-dial
https://youtu.be/ggSM6wn8M6I
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/about/log/comment
https://voat.co/v/RidersoftheReich/about/log/submission
@kevdude is a power mod who deletes comments & submissions, claims its something he has never done under the wrong.
@kevdude uses /v/protectvoat to ORGANIZE downvoat users and brigade subverses. he continuously lies about me because he is paid to do it.
and fucking lies 95% of the time, you can see he as in almost bot like attack c&p the same message to me over and over
just another example, of the " builder" @kevdude lying
http://archive.is/1SkY3
He even ask for quote in his words "my services" to brigade a verse. he works along side of @crensch who is also a paid shill.
-dial
hes no even saying I c&p as another user... WHEN HE DOES THE SAME THING
pppppprooof
http://archive.is/DHtc7
http://archive.is/aBFee
http://archive.fo/xzYWA
http://archive.fo/4vWqN
http://archive.fo/cRewl
and generally happens within seconds of my postings.... will PIA protect me from that puttitout, fucking sellout
Here is more just one example of @kevdude shenanigans "the builder"
http://archive.is/rkHh9
kevdud bots
and he never has a real argument, I guarantee is a paid shill, much like crensch at this point
and dial was never a main... more lies you spineless cunt botter
virge ago
I haven't met one yet. I think you're delusional.
You mean.. my responses to you every time you spam some ridiculous copy and paste and ping me? I would quite literally never interact with you if you didn't ping me first. I think you are legitimately insane, so talking to you is a waste of time where I shouldn't even bother responding. Every single response from you to date has been evidence that this is the case.
In other words, I'm wasting my time right now because you can't even understand what I'm saying and will respond like a toddler would to a complex algebra problem.
Actually, I think I overestimated you. I thought you were a normal rational person I could talk to. Instead, I've discovered you are probably the result of some prenatal drinking or meth use. I don't think your brain ever fully developed. The more I interact with you, the more I appreciate you as a representation of the absolute worst end of the mental disability spectrum.
You post 24/7, usually gibberish with very few coherent thoughts. You live in a land of your own design in your own mind and make up whatever reality you want. You don't contribute anything to society and are probably on disability having never worked an income producing job, which means your entire existance is parasitic and stolen from productive people at gunpoint through taxation.
You would appear to be the living embodiment of everything wrong with society.
And you think you're some tough guy. I find that hilarious. It's like the special ed kid who goes to school with boxing gloves on because his parents know he's not mentally capable of going an entire day without killing himself by trying to swallow some scissors or some shit, so they distract him with a set of boxing gloves so he goes to school with boxing gloves and shows them off to all the other kids constantly even when they realize he's special and either placate him (see, the friends you think you have here), or just don't want to associate with him because he's a lunatic (most people I've observed respond to you fall into this category).
In the end, the boxing gloves are for the protection of everyone. In your case, sticking you in some room and giving you access to the internet where you are mostly harmless was probably your parents approach, while they proceed to drink themselves to death for having failed to pass productive genes on in the gene pool.
I feel sorry for you, legitimately - but I also think you are a parasite who will die swiftly when the welfare system crumbles in the future so ultimately you are a self-correcting problem when you finally curl over dehydrated over your keyboard and stop breathing when the food stamp checks stop coming in and the Obama phone internet is no longer paid by the rest of society.
Parasites die with the host. And your host is on life support. I'll definitely outlast you, one way or the other.
kjhasd758756 ago
talk with @kevdude please, if you have not already.
-dial
Justsomebullshitname ago
4 betrays a lack of understanding of the real value of anonymity. While one can be silenced for wrong think in public on Voat, they can speak without fear of reprisal or concern for intimidation in anon boards.
Within my first hour of posting outside of QRV with my account I had a mod telling me they were going to downvote me for being a shill as my strong opinions offended them. Within another hour my account was below minimum CCP to post and shortly dropped into the negative.
Voat uses votes to silence dissent from admissible popular speak.
Think of it in economic terms. Some users have amassed great wealth in points due to prolonged use. Any new user therefore is a subject of those with point currency to spend on either promotion or demotion of what they say. The net result is that only speech which is aligned with the wealthy holders is permissible. Voat has created the tyranny of the mob.
In the end I don’t believe the mechanisms of this site serve the stated objective of this site.
virge ago
If tasked with this problem, how would you break it down to remediate?
Justsomebullshitname ago
Ultimately what exists now is territorial enclaves with economic statuses. Communities that band together around ideation.
You have to eliminate the economic factor or institute fiat mechanisms of devaluation. CCP is like gold in the way a fed dollar is not. Meaning CCP is a fixed value with respect to its self over time. The value of positioning content, silencing or promoting, this adjusts with time with respect to the total CCP amassed. So the economic value of one vote goes down as the user count and post count goes up. This means any one late to the game is impoverished until having gained enough CCP by the graves of the wealthy to empower them to become a middle classed citizen of Voat.
So you can erode the value of CCP with time. You can decrement it with time, or any other mechanism that equalizes the economic power of a new user and an existing user.
The argument for the immune system of Voat I don’t think detracts from value erosion as a solution since the collective behavior of Voat can still be employed, it just takes a larger consensus when there isn’t the ability of small groupings to economically over power other groupings.
heygeorge ago
This has been bandied about before, and is not a bad idea at all, but it would have to be carefully crafted.
virge ago
This guy has an agenda. I screenshot his posts, and they were actually very concise and good advice. The kind of advice you'd expect from someone institutional. Then he not only deletes them but purges them from SearchVoat.co, showing he knows what he's doing.
The real questions are, who was he before he was banned, and what is his agenda in doing this behavior?
@kevdude
Justsomebullshitname ago
https://voat.co/v/Voat/3246701/18879494?context=10
You are a low class disrespectful pile of shit. Use me then chase my comments around calling me a liar when you got called out for pulling a fast one on me.
virge ago
You're being obtuse. I deleted those posts because I typo'd the shit out of them. you can still see them on SearchVoat.co yourself if you want to validate, I intended to copy and paste the link and somehow copy and pasted the thread into the middle of the thread.. it was terrible.
Once I saw you engaging here I deleted the old thread to avoid confusion. How could that possibly offend you in any way, and more importantly how can that possibly lead you to deleting this conversation when I strongly feel you contributed to the conversation and I appreciated it?
I'm legitimately mind-boggled right now. Humans are so amusing. You react to the oddest of things and infer them in the most peculiar ways.
Justsomebullshitname ago
I thought I lied about that deleted in invite... Which is it, did I lie because of an agenda or did you lie and flip your shit when you got called out for using me?
Go fuck your self.
virge ago
No. I was wrong there. I legitimately had no idea what you were talking about, because when you deleted the messages from our conversation, you accused me of deleting mine and all I could see was this thread where. Look up, dude. You didn't link the thread that actually offended you and I didn't remember it offhand so to me it looked like you were accusing me of deleting the topics in this thread, not in the other one.
Now, put yourself in my shoes for a minute and appreciate that literally for the past 4 days I've had a subversive group of assholes following me around, pinging me in over 100 threads a day, making topics about me just to try and annoy me by lying about me, and following me around mass downvoting me - mostly because I got some attention from being in a PuttItOut thread and with any popularity on Voat comes the parasites that destroy. I legitimately didn't remember our initial conversation beause I come back from a fucking coffee break with 25+ messages in my inbox these days, and you didn't leave any context at all for me to go off other than accusing me of something I didn't think I had done.
I def over-reacted, I'm willing to update that post now. In fact, I'll copy and paste this into it and you can view it here, instead of replying to this: https://voat.co/v/ideasforvoat/3243355/18888769
Justsomebullshitname ago
TLDR; I didn’t read your sob story. I glanced across it and it was all how you’re a victim of something. I really don’t give a shit about your problems. You used me then made false accusations against me. You are a shitty useless person and I’m done participating with you and your content.
virge ago
Oh. You're Zylkon. That makes sense then. Fuck you faggot I proved what you did wrong, good try.
CRKT_M16Z ago
Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about anon posting. My experience with it so far has been mostly negative as it has been used as a means to pick on or harass other people.
CheeseboogerHimself ago
I said long ago that I think we should be able to see who votes and how. It eliminates a lot of bullshit. Many sites have done this from the beginning. At the bottom of posts is the people who liked and who disliked. I'm honest in my voting so it wouldn't affect me.
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heygeorge ago
I don’t believe this is entirely true, were he dedicated enough. But it is apparently rather difficult.
WhiteRonin ago
Not entirely. We have notifications ;-)
heygeorge ago
I heard that SBBH found a way to unmask users in anon subs anyway.
WhiteRonin ago
You really are trying to make me giggle today! Congrats you did!
Nah, that’s all conjecture. However, give me access to the dB and I’ll male it happen unless the IDs for the tables haven’t been encrypted.
Funny thing is that I love Voat. Even with all its bull shit. It’s home. Sure we have fights and battles but that’s family.
Voat just forgets sometimes that it’s immune system is strong - for better or for worse.
virge ago
Maybe I should have said "without effort" to make it clear he wasn't claiming that was by design, but by accident over over-engineering, probably.
WhiteRonin ago
It’s called not letting the cat out of the bag.
heygeorge ago
I’m fairly certain it was by design. Resisting temptation is far easier if the thing you might be tempted to do is a pain in the ass.
virge ago
If so then an appropriate future-facing technical decision, either way.
When an Architect is paid a lot of money to design something, they design it with the intention to hand it off to someone else, so designing it in a way that takes this into consideration from day one is a must.
heygeorge ago
Clear as mud!
virge ago
What I mean is, if Voat grows Putt will probably have to hire help and/or delegate.
It's not easy to trust people with power, but it is easy to not give them a power in the first place. Compartmentalization.
A junior admin can't go rogue and crack anon posts if even Putt can't by design.
heygeorge ago
Yes. And what I’m saying is that from the onset, Atko wanted it to be difficult for himself to crack.
virge ago
Did Atko foresee it's use as it's used today, however?
heygeorge ago
Anon has exceptionally rarely been used on this site as Atkins intended. Then again, the entire site is infrequently used as Atko intended.
virge ago
Thus my argument, times change and no intelligent design is perfect.
I know I'm not on the popular side of the anon argument, which is why I left it off my three suggestions for Voat but still put it in the post in detail. I do not believe we SHOULD make those changes, but I strongly would if I was in charge because I see Anon as one of the systemic issues that needs to be reigned in from the perspective of user abuse if Voat is to grow.
Quite simply, I don't think people should be able to do what they do today to abuse users with anon. I've gotten maybe 20+ anon pings that are simply abuse by children and autistic no-life faggots in the past day alone, and I don't respond to any of that shit because it's just bait exploiting anon in the first place.
Make voting transparent and delegate anon to sub-feature status where things like pings don't work (so spamming people with anon pings becomes pointless) and you resolve these abusive issues - but I consider that a half measure because these individuals and groups will always push the envelope to find new ways to abuse - that's why I advocate making anon purely private in the first place and making it a specific tool for a specific purpose, not a catch-all 4chan wannabe with abusive features like anonymous pings and anonymous subvoat spam as we have today.
Right now anon is a large factor in Voat's chaos. Voting being private is the biggest, however. Make votes transparent and I think many other issues will self-correct.
heygeorge ago
It’s easy to block anon pings.
This is a separate idea.
virge ago
No shit. We're having an adult conversation with many complex ideas in parallel. I thank you for it.
heygeorge ago
Likewise.
virge ago
Absolutely. And I would have the option to use a VPN or start my own community with a company in Australia, Canada, or the UK and then adhere to those laws.
The fact remains that Putt himself has made it clear that Voat exists to adhere to Free Speech within U.S. laws, and that is the only restriction he has decided to place on the place so I strongly think it would be unfair of me to demand Voat adhere to other countries laws.
Using a VPN solves the problem for these people entirely. U.S. Citizens, and Voat as company for that matter, refuse to bow to the whims of other countries. Your plea may be for the Citizens, but those Citizens have choices of where they live and must make the decision on agreeing to those laws or going elsewhere.
Unfortunately for Citizens of those countries, Voat is not the solution to their problems. They must take responsibility for their own decisions. I will not abide by other countries who trample on their Citizens being allowed to make laws that are then forcefully applied to Voat.
Voat stands for American Free Speech. The rest of the world has no Freedom and this breaks my heart, but I am not responsible for saving the rest of the world from itself, nor would I have the power to do so even if I desired.
virge ago
While I see the validity of your argument, I personally believe that the #1 thing for Voat is Free Speech, in accordance with U.S. law. Every other tech company has failed at this, and instead capitulates to all the opressive SJW countries who believe the Internet should be censored of all anti-Government or otherwise "wrong-think".
I do not believe it to be an issue if other countries decide to ban Voat because Voat follows a very specific set of U.S. laws which give Freedom of Free Speech. Those countries will ban Voat anyway, and Voat should not bow to their terrible legal system under any circumstances.
virge ago
Ok. I agree this is a discussion worth having, but I'm not entirely sure it's of a high enough priority to be in the current immediate tier of issues. Do you disagree?
virge ago
Well, I don't feel extremely up to date on this situation/argument.
Lets start with some fundamentals.
What do you mean? Free Speech and morality are two entirely different things.
virge ago
Concise reply. I'll give it some thought. I'm not sure I see the entire logic yet.
Hysterical ago
I know this account is pretty new but I've been here for just shy of four years as a fairly active user. I've made a few posts over the years suggesting making votes transparent, allowing everyone to see who voted on what, etc etc. I believe it would solve a lot of the problems the community experiences.
Now whenever I have brought it up the main negative response I get is that it would potentially induce a chilling effect type scenario. For instance, some people who say want to be seen as more serious wouldn't feel comfortable upvoating something that might be seen as embarrassing. However that's generally the only complaint I end up hearing about the suggestion, and it would in my opinion be a small price to pay.
If we were all sitting around a very large round table, we would all see who is agreeing and disagreeing with one another. I feel that it would actually bring a bit more humanity to the site. And I'm not saying that as code for positivity I just mean that it would be a more natural style of communication that we are inherently better adapted for.
This is of course just my opinion and I certainly recognize that people will have legitimate reasons for diagreeing. It's a divisive topic. The best answer is most likely going to be compromise, and I'm just hoping it will be one that both sides can tolerate because all of us here share one of the most important things in common; we give a damn about freedom of speech, something out ancestors were willing to sacrifice themselves for.
virge ago
I believe this is the key change that would make all of the behavior like this go away: https://voat.co/v/whatever/3244477
These people run others off for various reasons. If their votes were transparent they wouldn't be able to prevent conversation and stop new users from participating like they do today.
Voat can grow if some changes are made to address the behaviors of users who wish to see Voat die.
Hysterical ago
Just wanting to add, but not edit; I really hate seeing the community divided and infighting. I imagine it makes those we all oppose very satisfied.
virge ago
The community is only divided in the first place because the average person doesn't spend a lot of time on Voat, but the coordinated efforts who want to abuse the system and run people off spend literally all day on Voat (I speculate it's their day job).
The only way for a casual observer to see structural corruption is for the corruption to be visible in the first place. Make voting transparent and anyone can click a user and see how they vote. You can't hide behind lies and say you think X when your voting makes it clear you think Y. Period.
Hysterical ago
Sounds about right.
I'm just glad all these Soapbox accounts are getting removed. It's becoming harder and harder for their lot to play damage control.
virge ago
Now just imagine how hard their jobs would be if voting was transparent. Makes you think, dun it?
They're already actively spinning the narrative that they thought of transparent voting first, and that I'm just trying to make sure it's not retroactive (I don't care either way and was just trying to submit a compromise people would accept).
Check out this ridiculous lying nonsense to see how scared and desperate these guys are getting: https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/3246164
Funny how their goon squad comes in to manipulate the votes within minutes of this topic being posted, huh? Think of what we'd learn about them with voting transparency.
Hysterical ago
And yeah if only. I've had a lot of experiences like that over the years when I'm calling them out.
Hysterical ago
I honestly can't tell what to make of Ronin.
https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/3240308/18859666?context=10/
Honestly a bit of shit to wade through but it was the last few comment in that chain that matter most in my eyes.
Hysterical ago
At least one of the times I suggested transparent voting it was their crew who came down on me saying it would just cause problems..
WhiteRonin ago
You don’t get it. I was saying full retroactive transparency because it would create such a shit storm it would be epic.
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virge ago
Do you smell fear?
Because I smell fear.
Hysterical ago
Yeah lol, I think I've made almost this exact comment to one of them the other day. They're getting desperate.
theoldones ago
I HAVE A POINT TO MENTION HERE
voat operating on only the US law basis for child porn may be inadequate. clearly certain bad actors slipped through recently, and have been slipping through
can i make the suggestion of plundering poal.co's policy which bans all sexualized depictions of children, even the loli shit?
Hysterical ago
I agree with this sentiment. It's going to be a divisive one though unfortunately. Many claim the slippery slope effect, but god damn, it's a form of pedophilia. We do need to draw a line somewhere, and it seems to me that pedophilia would be a good spot to do it. If implemented it could come with some variety of clause that it is strictly a one time thing, and does not set precedent for future incursions of strict freedom if speech policy in regards to abiding US law.
virge ago
This is a really good discussion to have. This is why I recommend the community works with Putt to figure out what the line is and both advertise and stick to it.
If Putt disagrees with you, then you're going to have to accept that. His house, don't piss on his seat and all that.
Dortex ago
u/theoldones begged for child porn,repeatedly, and again for good measure, then had a mental breakdown for over a day when he got called out for it? Also u/TruthDefender is his alt.
theoldones ago
@Cynabuns dortex spam here
Crensch ago
u/theoldones called you out for defending pedophiles. Get over it, you sick fuck. Soon enough subhumans like you will be shot in broad daylight to the delight of the humans watching.
Dortex ago
And I called him out for begging for child porn. Circle of life.
Crensch ago
Except he didn't. You're just full of shit and you spam like sanegoat. You should probably just slit your wrist and go out easy - I said shoot, I didn't say kill. They won't let you die swiftly.
Dortex ago
.
.
https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1084-elements-solicitation
Crensch ago
Nice way to twist his intent to your own benefit. You were tip-toeing around what is legal and what isn't, so he called you on it.
Nobody believes you, and they believe you even less the more you spam. You nutcases never really get that, it seems.
Dortex ago
There's no twist. It's a plain reading. What do you think I think his intent is?
Crensch ago
To prove you knew it was illegal, obviously.
Dortex ago
Incorrect. In his own words, it was a challenge for the target user to "put his money where his mouth is". Sounds pretty straightforward to me.
Crensch ago
Nobody in any court would take it that way, except Jews and pedophiles, but I repeat myself.
Dortex ago
Why wouldn't the people in court take him at his word when he begs for.child porn, then fervently clarifies that he is, in fact, challenging people to post child pornography to prove what he perceives to be their case?
Crensch ago
Context matters, pedo.
Dortex ago
No amount of context helps after he literally confesses to the felony as is laid out in the Penal Code.
Crensch ago
Anyone reading those words outside of your cherry-picking would take you out back so you could fall down a few dozen times.
Dortex ago
Funny you mention that, not only did he confess to his exact motives in his responses, But he also links to an "independent" third party who also agrees that he's specifically challenging others to post child pornography and defends it on that basis. Bruh, this is getting sad. I can hear you scraping the bottom of that barrel. I'm going to bed.
Crensch ago
That exact link. Do you think I'm stupid or something?
Can't wait till streetlights are decorated with pedophile-sized ornaments.
Dortex ago
.
.
You're not giving me a choice here.
theoldones ago
@TruthDefender now he's defaming your good name in addition to mine
heygeorge ago
Maybe a ban from v/greatawakening would set him straight!
Crensch ago
https://voat.co/v/whatever/3247417
.
theoldones ago
he's been trying the trick all day but i laced the links he quotes with edits that link back to a rebbutal that show him to be a lying snake
whenever he spreads this spam now it directly calls him out and shows he's lying XD
Dortex ago
Shrayzie gave away your game ages ago. Dortex doesn't think anything you say matters, so he sees no reason to edit the post.
fuchs_davis ago
I don't see why anon would need to be quarantined in order to make this work. You could pull this off and keep anon as is, two different ways. Either you could reveal voters within anon just as you would reveal them in any other post (your choice if you want to deanonymise and vote or not); or you could implement your change across regular Voat and leave anon votes anon.
It might be a good idea to have a little expando that reveals who voted how. But that's no good reason to smuggle in an anti-anon machination at the same time.
virge ago
I left anon off the main list but still presented my opinion on anon to demonstrate what I think is in the best interests for the community to resolve existing issues (the solution side of things) while making sure to show what I would do if I were Putt with the anon expansion of the idea.
In other words, I'm not Putt but I'm making a recommendation of what I would do if I were him in the best interest of the community based on his own words and his rules.
fuchs_davis ago
On the other hand, if I saw how you voted and I didn't like it, I could put pressure on you the way some put pressure on those who make comments they don't like.
There's pros and cons. Maybe you could have a choice when you make a post, similar to "anon" or "regular", like "reveal voting" or "regular".
SearchVoatBot ago
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virge ago
What kind of pressure? I get the overall concept, but could you help me out with a practical example?
fuchs_davis ago
Well, just thinking off the top of my head, you could comment immediately on a target's submissions or comments in such a way that it turns the hivemind against that person, similar I guess to a Krassenstein Bro, if you know who they were.
virge ago
I get what you're saying. I believe it currently works the opposite, where because of private voting groups of ill-intentioned can abuse unsuspecting others at will.
I think Voat's hivemind is currently a vocal minority, and that transparency in the voting would redress that.
heygeorge ago
How do you think public voting will solve abuse? I bet lots of users rarely comment and just use their votes silently. If the manipulators are as powerful as you allege, then they will by now have an advantageous head start on creating their sleepy accounts.
virge ago
With public voting some bored nerd could script a tracker and output a spreadsheet demonstrating coordinated behavior over time by accounts. Seems pretty simple to me. Can't hide behind vote subversion while saying something else like sguevar and his faggot ilk do.
fuchs_davis ago
And the option to mask votes in your submission, similar to the option to mask usernames, would allow you to institute your proposed reforms while still leaving room for those controversial sorts of posts where the poster wants to encourage honest answers (which anonymity encourages).
zyklon_b ago
or could just have un adulterated free speech and let the Goats rule
Nosferatjew ago
This is what drew the goats to voat in the first place, and made voat what it is today. In the past, Putt has stated that the site doesn't belong to him, but instead, belongs to the users... I guess he doesn't see it that way anymore though, thus the recent increase in abuse of power.
virge ago
Typical Leftist Jew argument. No borders, just keep pushing beyond reason. You do this all day long, twisting and lying about things. It's kind of funny, actually.
There must be rules. Putt has made a minimal set of rules. You and the people like you will never be happy and always challenge or change the rules. This is literally why we can't have nice things.
WhiteRonin ago
Wrong. Nobody has problem with rules that state illegal activities are illegal. Think a bit more!
virge ago
Lots of people have a problem with it because they don't understand that it means a specific set of U.S. laws and get confused because of whatever shithole country they live in that has no Freedom at all due to their oppressive Globalist Governments.
This argument appears specifically tailored towards the Reddit-style constant march of piling on Globalist countries "legal" system. This is the cancer killing all of the other parts of the Internet.
For example, Nosferatjew claims "Putt claims Voat belongs to the users". Ok. So? It still has to have a set of rules and he never claimed the users defined those rules.
Maybe thats where we functionally disagree? You seem to think the users should make the rules, I agree that Putt should. Functionally, my entire argument would be you need to take up issues with the rules with him, and then abide by the decision because it's Putt's house. You seem to disagree. What am I missing?
WhiteRonin ago
Understanding my views and you are trying to think for me without asking, that’s what you are missing.
I agree on this being Putt’s house and it’s his rules. I just want certain rules to be better defined. Too much leeway is happening.
Your misunderstanding comes from my Wild West comment. Rules and usage are different. Putt may have had intention as to how their site would end up being but the users themselves define it by the very fact this is a content compiling style of system like the original digg. It’s not a forum system. Thus users naturally by supplying content links end of changing the focus from what Putt may have originally intended. More than likely he knew that his creation would be defined by the users.
I never said he said that users define the rules.
So, you combine his rules and users intentions. It’s how it is today.
virge ago
Let me be candid. You seldom answer seriously. Can you really cry foul about someone asking for your opinion when you seldom actually give one?
Ok. This is the first thing you've said in days I can agree with on merit alone. I've said the same thing. It is 100% Putt's responsibility to both define and enforce the rules. In addition, discretion with the rules by subordinates will almost always be either abused, or people will accuse them of such for whatever reason. If we agree there, then Putt is also responsible for the grey areas. That's also a lot of responsibility for one guy.
You're suggesting Atko/Putt curate the direction of the forum? Or are you saying that you believe it to be their responsibility? Not following.
This is true, but you routinely put up a united front with other users that do not suggest, but instead demand some changes - ostensibly under the pretense of those changes being your interpretation of the rules to begin with. I've seen you and the group of usernames that's always in your orbit do the same thing.
I'm not saying it's bad or nefarious, just pointing out that I've observed it and it does not align with what you are saying now - so help me reconcile the differences between my long-running observation and what you mean.
Can you please elaborate on this in function?
WhiteRonin ago
I already addressed your rude comments, just to reappear, not in this thread. Stop it. Please carry on that conversation in the 5-7 ones we already have going.
There is no functionality what you are addressing.
It’s Putt’s house, I don’t care what is too much or what not. He had plenty of time to address many issues before today. Yes, it is tough but he ain’t a pussy. It is also a learning experience since dynamics change but it’s still comes down to him.
Voat is a curation system. User define the content they want here by posting links. If Putt doesn’t like it he should refer to #1
I addressed the vote issues and suggested moving to a spam vote system.
I also addressed if votes are needed then copying functionality of forums that place the like at the bottom of each comment with full transparency should be used. I also addressed how metrics for the front page is based on votes. It could still work with this modification.
virge ago
WhiteRonin ago
Sometimes delaying a decisions is the smart decision. Jumping the gun can be just as bad as waiting too long. It’s all timing.
He drops in new functionality all the time. I see no problem. It’s the people’s problem.
https://voat.co/v/ideasforvoat/3243355/18883592
Basically you upgrade the report functionality to a first grade citizen. People vote if content is spam or not. 10-20 spam votes means the post/comment goes hidden until moderation can be applied. You could also build ban systems off it too since you would have a clear cut data work flow. Adding humans to the mix would guard against false positives and brigading. It’s clean and simple. Combine that with a forum style like/dislike with transparency and you will address the brigades, the need to create multiple alts and much more. The added amount of work is minimal to implement and would only need humans to monitor spam.
Hysterical ago
Would destroy the website, unless you agree that we need to at least abide by US law. Which is not implied with "unadulterated free speech".
An appeal to emotion. Could be seen as manipulative if one was considering that sort of thing...
WhiteRonin ago
Nobody is saying breaking the law is free speech.
zyklon_b ago
honor the builders.....
hahha
Hysterical ago
Chaos is necessary. Unnecessary chaos isn't.
We need all forms of opinion, but we do not need sabotage. There's a clear difference in my eyes.
I'm not a huge fan on the builder and destroyer narrative either by the way, but at its essence is a truth. There is no benefit to humoring those genuinely trying to harm the platform. There is benefit in listening to all opinions.
zyklon_b ago
Look 1st i am trying to save and better the platform
2nd the qtards is the ones wanting to chamge voat.
Nosferatjew ago
They came here with this as their stated goal... why anyone thought they would stop after losing some initial battles, I don't know.
virge ago
I find that surprising since just a brief review of your post history suggests you're one of them. Might as well stop pretending.
Nosferatjew ago
lol, you must be retarded.
virge ago
No real question that you are.
Nosferatjew ago
You clearly don't know much about me or my history on this site.
virge ago
OH NOES. YOU ARE BIG IMPORTANT MAN. I SO SORRY PLEASE EXCUSE.
Dumb nigger. I expect to see you on the ban list because you want to see Voat die so I don't really give a shit what you think or the crap you did in the past if you are my enemy.
Nosferatjew ago
Why do you think this?
You seem to be good at making enemies... it's probably everyone else though, right?
virge ago
Simple. You think you make the rules and not Putt. If you do not accept the admin's rules you are the enemy of Voat and wish to see it die. I don't need eyes, your actions make this self-evident.
If you agreed with Putt and wanted to see Voat grow, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we?
My enemies are Voat's enemies.
Anyone who wants to see Voat grow and follow the very minimal and simple rules by Putt is my ally. No more, no less.
You cannot subvert that. Good luck trying.
Nosferatjew ago
So, you say that you would murder voat users for comments they've made on this website, yet you also say you want voat to grow... and I'm the one here who wants voat to die...? That makes sense.......
When you jerk off every night to interracial daddy daughter incest porn, do you take off your yamaka?
Hysterical ago
How am I not thinking for myself?
I'm no fan of the Q community but I don't see them being a major issue either.
Do you agree that we must at least abide by US law?
zyklon_b ago
I agree no laws to be broken ever.
virge ago
Demonstrably false.
zyklon_b ago
oh is i do not support israel and the (((plan)))then i am destroyer.
.
theoldones ago
go take pills and beat your wife again, kike.
zyklon_b ago
I aint threatend shit. all is satire....lmao
theoldones ago
k.
if that's true you're a waste of time
if it's false you are a piece of shit
zyklon_b ago
It aint matter if u like my art or not. its effective in exposing double standards and corruption so i win
theoldones ago
dirty jew
virge ago
This is where what you believe and the operator of Voat believe disagree in terms that would void most contracts. You desire complete chaos, and Voat leaves an incredible Free Speech void if it vanishes. Complete chaos will, ultimately, make Voat vanish.
If Voat is no more there is no Free Speech on the Internet. If you do not value Free Speech, you are my enemy.
There's the door.
zyklon_b ago
ok fuzzy how do you know what i desire?
@freshmeat looky
virge ago
You just made it plain. I offered you a plan and then asked for suggestions. Your suggestion was "unadulterated free speech". You do not deny that unadulterated free speech is not in the operator of this sites best interest, as he has expressed openly to the community.
How do you reconcile why the owner should do what you want against the best interest of the intended purpose of Voat, that being Free Speech?
zyklon_b ago
How did you ever come to the conclusion i dont want what is best for the site? So u say if we have true free speech we will not have a site anymore? is that what Voatz angel allegedly paid for? @theodorekent @freshmeat @d0c5 @trigglypuff
Voat got an angel that paid all our costs BUT if we do not start censoring the money will vanish and no more voat.
virge ago
Thats a unique angle to take. You go from one bad argument where you have no evidence to yet another bad argument where you have no evidence. Voat is not growing. I've proposed a plan to change that. Argue the merit of my plan or we have nothing left for your particular set of tactics to employ and we're done here.
WhiteRonin ago
Why is he wrong?
I’m gonna yep you here. This is why full retroactive transparency will never happen. Angle(s) have too much to loose.
virge ago
Can you please do us both a favor and stop using full retroactive transparency? It's a bad suggestion, I never suggested it, nobody ever suggested it, and you are the only one who keeps saying it. Every time you do this I'll be forced to point out that nobody is making this argument, and I would really appreciate it if you'd just drop that invalid talking point and move on so I can save my fingers some typing. Deal?
P.S. Did you get bored and trudge through my post history? 3 day old post? Really? Giving that abuse script good data I guess, but is it really worth it?
WhiteRonin ago
No, you linked several times to this post in your comments to me. So I finally read it.
I provided honest commentary. You didn’t understand what I was talking about so I explained it here in more detail.
I even provided a viable solution.
Why are you being a twat to me?
virge ago
You've spent the past days chasing me around downvoting me and you are calling me a twat. Presented with no further comment.
WhiteRonin ago
Not in this thread. Just stop it. We have other threads you can carry on in.
virge ago
Then stop replying in these and consolidate, I just hit the reply button.
WhiteRonin ago
Seriously? I posted a legitimate comment and also replied to another area. It’s you who isn’t reading their own thread and is causing the misunderstanding.