This is just a quick message for anyone visiting Voat for the first time.
We have a known blocking issue in our code base. This means that the site is being a spoiled rotten no good son of... often will toggle off for about 10 seconds and then turn itself back on.
It truly is the most annoying bug you can imagine and we are just so happy to have it along for the ride. To make matters worse, response times are very poor right do to traffic.
So heads up, it's a little like a goat track around here right now.
For two guys with fulltime jobs it is not easy to dedicate the time to find such an obscure bug. As we often do, we have to apologize.
Many apologies everyone. We hate it too.
What we don't have at Voat:
- Server Farms
- Engineers (or even employees for that matter)
- Infrastructure budget
- Marketing department
- Salaries ;)
What we do have:
- Freedom of Speech
- Annoying bugs
- Goats
Anyways, just wanted to say welcome to any new people and we hope that what we have outweighs what we don't have.
If you have the means, please consider donating. Every bit helps and means a lot to both of us. https://store.voat.co/donations
https://voat.co/v/announcements/1330806
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TheGunslinger ago
I need upvoats to be able to upvoat?
Rotteuxx ago
You need 100ccp bfr being a vetted goat.
So get 100 upgoats on you comments & you're clear to fully participate.
We make our shills work hard on getting alt accounts going here at Voat.
ginx2666 ago
It also makes brigading magnitudes time worse in consequences, but sure, let's ignore the flaws.
Rotteuxx ago
How so ?
ginx2666 ago
Okay, first of all: upvote score (or CCP/SCP) should be meaningless. Both reddit's and voat's scoring system is a glorified popularity contest. People upvote what they like/agree with, and downvote what they don't like/disagree with, regardless of it being relevant, on topic, or contributing to conversation. This is harsh truth, it will never change, deal with it.
Giving community the means to restrict/silence someone based on their popularity ranking (below certain score you have limited votes and posts per day) is absolutely the most retarded thing under the sun. It not only does not prevent brigading (which subs like fph engage in, one of the reasons fph got banned on reddit - same methods of brigading as srs, but unluckily fat fuck reddit admins sympathize with srs and not fph), it makes it valid way to silence people.
Even worse - in worst case scenario it could be used to halt influx of new users during exodus. It's only a proof of concept, but I've managed to streamline account creation process, and write python script that upvotes comments made by listed accounts. This solves problem of getting 100CCP to get full posting/voting privileges. Now, what I (armed with shitty internet connection with dynamic IP, and a single PC) can do with an array of accounts ready to vote? Well, for example target a single new account, find its first post, and instantly downvote it into restrictions. Boom - that's one new user instantly discouraged from posting because of not only apparent community backlash (which can be ignored if attributed to brigading), but also their account being restricted, which is only admins' fault for putting restrictions like those.
And that's only what I could do. Imagine an organized group, one with resources (more machines to execute account creation and validation script), time (to spread account creation process in time, avoiding tripping any flood alerts, if they exist) and skill (I wrote shitty python script using my own almost nonexistent python knowledge and "how to python" query in google - imagine someone competent attempting that) to scale up what I've envisioned, one that owns voat's competitor, one who sees voat as thorn in its side, and would benefit from it not gaining new users.
All because admins decided that popularity contest should matter.
psioniq ago
Absolutely agree, but what's the alternative?
I have yet to come across a solid/tested idea that works 'better' than the standard up/down vote system.
ginx2666 ago
Votes and scores (both post, submission, and personal) are permanently hidden and invisible to everyone (person posting and account's owner included), all a score does is bump submission/comment on sub's list. If any restrictions are to be placed on user, it's up to admins (globally) and mods (per sub), not to a bunch of bandwagon-happy, gullible, easily manipulated retarded spastic monkeys also known as community.
That way there's no incentive to whore for points (both negative and positive) other than aiming to the top/bottom of thread, following narrative and staying in the echo chamber isn't actively encouraged (like right now) seeing how you can't accurately gauge how popular a post/comment is, and you still retain the functionality of most upvoted posts/comments staying on the top, and least on the bottom. It's close to perfect "anonymous stream of consciousness" model 2ch/4ch/8ch have, without sacrificing threaded nature of comment system.
psioniq ago
How would that help anything?
The underlying system will still be the same, but with no way to gauge if a post/submission was artificially inflated or deflated.
A non-binary system with user-defined result scoring, might work.
ginx2666 ago
That's a side effect, but it won't matter in the long run. The main idea is to make score completely irrelevant when it comes to restrictions/privileges. This is the only important change in voat's system. As I've stated, you don't want to let the community silence someone purely because they don't like their opinion, and encourage only the way of thinking that pleases the lowest common denominator. That's a textbook definition of an echo chamber.
All visible score does is give people illusion of being popular. It encourages attention whoring and above mentioned echo chambers. This is a cosmetic change, and more of a discouragement for attention whores.
Well, -chans have that. If thread is popular, it stays active longer, until it hits either post or image bump limit. If it isn't, it dies. If post is thought provoking/popular, people reply to it. If it isn't, it goes by unnoticed. No scores, no rankings, and no accounts. If post/thread is especially good, 3rd parties will archive it. It's the closest to perfection as long as we're talking about platforms promoting discussion and discouraging attention whoring. The only thing that's lost is the threaded nature of comments.
psioniq ago
Sure, some people are total point whores - probably the majority - but I tend to view the up/down as a gauge for how informed/uninformed people are. But you're right, it quickly leads to an echo chamber.
I don't agree with the idea of hiding stats though. I'd rather find another system that is transparent and where manipulation has close to zero impact.
ginx2666 ago
With visible score, what's the difference between popular comment and one which has been planted and had its score manipulated? By score alone - there's none. You'd have to look at how many people have replied to both. In both cases visible score is absolutely useless for the purpose of finding vote manipulation, and only adds another unwanted element - people, who aren't commenting relevant things, aren't trying to manipulate votes, and are just hoping for bigger e-penis.
Transparency would mean revealing not only how many people have voted, but also revealing voters usernames.
As for "zero impact" system: -chans. Literally the only way to "manipulate" is to samefag, and that triggers both antispam/flood, but other users as well.
Voat's voting system is right now even worse than reddit's.
Y8goKTH959VCLKty8xIz ago
Damn. Ignorance is bliss