Welcome (announcements)

submitted ago by PuttItOut

This is just a quick message for anyone visiting Voat for the first time.

We have a known blocking issue in our code base. This means that the site is being a spoiled rotten no good son of... often will toggle off for about 10 seconds and then turn itself back on.

It truly is the most annoying bug you can imagine and we are just so happy to have it along for the ride. To make matters worse, response times are very poor right do to traffic.

So heads up, it's a little like a goat track around here right now.

For two guys with fulltime jobs it is not easy to dedicate the time to find such an obscure bug. As we often do, we have to apologize.

Many apologies everyone. We hate it too.

What we don't have at Voat:

  • Server Farms
  • Engineers (or even employees for that matter)
  • Infrastructure budget
  • Marketing department
  • Salaries ;)

What we do have:

  • Freedom of Speech
  • Annoying bugs
  • Goats

Anyways, just wanted to say welcome to any new people and we hope that what we have outweighs what we don't have.

If you have the means, please consider donating. Every bit helps and means a lot to both of us. https://store.voat.co/donations

https://voat.co/v/announcements/1330806

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TheGunslinger ago

I need upvoats to be able to upvoat?

Rotteuxx ago

You need 100ccp bfr being a vetted goat.

So get 100 upgoats on you comments & you're clear to fully participate.

We make our shills work hard on getting alt accounts going here at Voat.

sagur ago

That makes total sense. It sucks that we live in a world where the shills have made it so it kinda has to be like this, but this makes sense to me. Honest question: How can regular people help voat make it?

Kamyria ago

As much as it sucks being limited in the beginning... I think this is a great idea.

peanut-butter ago

These rules are depressing-I just wanna lurk & post when I feel like it...Can't understand why you guys make things difficult

grubbypixie ago

I mostly lurk and comment occasionally. I still have very little in the way of CCP because I'm usually in lurker mode. My occasional comments got me above the required CCP eventually. If you are just lurking having to upvoat and downvoat isn't a big deal - You can still lurk without that ability.

@Rotteuxx is right - It discourages sock puppetry and self brigading.

Rotteuxx ago

Because we encourage participation & it discourages people from creating a bunch of alts to self-brigade posts... as far as I understand the reasoning.

dtshady ago

I can upvoat even though this comment right here is literally my first comment ever. Is it because my account is so old? 1.4 years, I have the alpha badge and stuff. I have 0 CCP and SCP.

edit: Shit I should have read more. I get it now.

VS550 ago

Hello, i'm a defector from plebbit. Would you please nice goats recommend me some spicy subgoats(?) similar to FPH, the_donald, the_frauke etc? Please help me, I'm very lazy.

Rotteuxx ago

So am I... use the search iy'll be less effort for us ;-)

ginx2666 ago

We make our shills work hard on getting alt accounts going here at Voat.

It also makes brigading magnitudes time worse in consequences, but sure, let's ignore the flaws.

Rotteuxx ago

How so ?

ginx2666 ago

Okay, first of all: upvote score (or CCP/SCP) should be meaningless. Both reddit's and voat's scoring system is a glorified popularity contest. People upvote what they like/agree with, and downvote what they don't like/disagree with, regardless of it being relevant, on topic, or contributing to conversation. This is harsh truth, it will never change, deal with it.

Giving community the means to restrict/silence someone based on their popularity ranking (below certain score you have limited votes and posts per day) is absolutely the most retarded thing under the sun. It not only does not prevent brigading (which subs like fph engage in, one of the reasons fph got banned on reddit - same methods of brigading as srs, but unluckily fat fuck reddit admins sympathize with srs and not fph), it makes it valid way to silence people.
Even worse - in worst case scenario it could be used to halt influx of new users during exodus. It's only a proof of concept, but I've managed to streamline account creation process, and write python script that upvotes comments made by listed accounts. This solves problem of getting 100CCP to get full posting/voting privileges. Now, what I (armed with shitty internet connection with dynamic IP, and a single PC) can do with an array of accounts ready to vote? Well, for example target a single new account, find its first post, and instantly downvote it into restrictions. Boom - that's one new user instantly discouraged from posting because of not only apparent community backlash (which can be ignored if attributed to brigading), but also their account being restricted, which is only admins' fault for putting restrictions like those.

And that's only what I could do. Imagine an organized group, one with resources (more machines to execute account creation and validation script), time (to spread account creation process in time, avoiding tripping any flood alerts, if they exist) and skill (I wrote shitty python script using my own almost nonexistent python knowledge and "how to python" query in google - imagine someone competent attempting that) to scale up what I've envisioned, one that owns voat's competitor, one who sees voat as thorn in its side, and would benefit from it not gaining new users.

All because admins decided that popularity contest should matter.

psioniq ago

Absolutely agree, but what's the alternative?

I have yet to come across a solid/tested idea that works 'better' than the standard up/down vote system.

ginx2666 ago

Votes and scores (both post, submission, and personal) are permanently hidden and invisible to everyone (person posting and account's owner included), all a score does is bump submission/comment on sub's list. If any restrictions are to be placed on user, it's up to admins (globally) and mods (per sub), not to a bunch of bandwagon-happy, gullible, easily manipulated retarded spastic monkeys also known as community.

That way there's no incentive to whore for points (both negative and positive) other than aiming to the top/bottom of thread, following narrative and staying in the echo chamber isn't actively encouraged (like right now) seeing how you can't accurately gauge how popular a post/comment is, and you still retain the functionality of most upvoted posts/comments staying on the top, and least on the bottom. It's close to perfect "anonymous stream of consciousness" model 2ch/4ch/8ch have, without sacrificing threaded nature of comment system.

psioniq ago

How would that help anything?

The underlying system will still be the same, but with no way to gauge if a post/submission was artificially inflated or deflated.

A non-binary system with user-defined result scoring, might work.

ginx2666 ago

The underlying system will still be the same, but with no way to gauge if a post/submission was artificially inflated or deflated.

That's a side effect, but it won't matter in the long run. The main idea is to make score completely irrelevant when it comes to restrictions/privileges. This is the only important change in voat's system. As I've stated, you don't want to let the community silence someone purely because they don't like their opinion, and encourage only the way of thinking that pleases the lowest common denominator. That's a textbook definition of an echo chamber.

All visible score does is give people illusion of being popular. It encourages attention whoring and above mentioned echo chambers. This is a cosmetic change, and more of a discouragement for attention whores.

A non-binary system with user-defined result scoring, might work.

Well, -chans have that. If thread is popular, it stays active longer, until it hits either post or image bump limit. If it isn't, it dies. If post is thought provoking/popular, people reply to it. If it isn't, it goes by unnoticed. No scores, no rankings, and no accounts. If post/thread is especially good, 3rd parties will archive it. It's the closest to perfection as long as we're talking about platforms promoting discussion and discouraging attention whoring. The only thing that's lost is the threaded nature of comments.

psioniq ago

Sure, some people are total point whores - probably the majority - but I tend to view the up/down as a gauge for how informed/uninformed people are. But you're right, it quickly leads to an echo chamber.

I don't agree with the idea of hiding stats though. I'd rather find another system that is transparent and where manipulation has close to zero impact.

ginx2666 ago

I don't agree with the idea of hiding stats though.

With visible score, what's the difference between popular comment and one which has been planted and had its score manipulated? By score alone - there's none. You'd have to look at how many people have replied to both. In both cases visible score is absolutely useless for the purpose of finding vote manipulation, and only adds another unwanted element - people, who aren't commenting relevant things, aren't trying to manipulate votes, and are just hoping for bigger e-penis.

I'd rather find another system that is transparent and where manipulation has close to zero impact.

Transparency would mean revealing not only how many people have voted, but also revealing voters usernames.
As for "zero impact" system: -chans. Literally the only way to "manipulate" is to samefag, and that triggers both antispam/flood, but other users as well.

Voat's voting system is right now even worse than reddit's.

Y8goKTH959VCLKty8xIz ago

Damn. Ignorance is bliss

Fahrvergnaked ago

I have never seen a negative comment past -3, we don't brigade, 45 upvoats on a single comment is unusual. 88 comments on a single thread is large, there's no downvoat brigading. Let's keep it that way.

Pattoe ago

we don't brigade

Hahahahaaaa

Serious?

Fahrvergnaked ago

I've seen a few downvoats here and there, but nothing on the scale of reddit. Nobody is downvoated to oblivion based on their accounts other than the obvious trolls like hecho and amalek. I have said some things, people have disagreed and moved on, nobody follows me around downvoating.

THR0W4W4Y ago

This is a brilliant idea!

Fahrvergnaked ago

We're proud of our Atko...

Stellaris ago

Makes sense to me. I am so sick of shills.

6894216? ago

I just got here, and the welcome sticky alone had me sold.

LuminaryAziraphale ago

But upgoats are so hard to come by.

Thomascro83 ago

What's that horribly popular ass song? Oh yeah..... work work work work

Cameron ago

come to a thread early enough and you'll get to 100 in one fell swoop

lastresort09 ago

Well we better make sure everyone has enough then!

Flux ago

It was much harder with less than 1000 people on the site total and it crashing all the time. You guys are lucky!

BB-3 ago

Lol

weezkitty ago

Not really. I mean I've been upvoted over 28000 times and have given over 50000

Voopin__Voopin ago

here, have one. :)

dynamiteVacancy ago

Not if you keep posting. I've been on here three months and got more CCP than comment karma on my (now terminated) 3-year-old plebbit account.

orange_viper ago

"You have reached your hourly comment quota. Your current quota is 10 comment(s) per hour."

:( - I wasn't even trying to get 100ccp, I just post a lot of shite.

Also, what does the little blue number in our profiles mean? Doesn't seem to correlate to anything...

dynamiteVacancy ago

Yeah that first part really sucks, but once you get past that you'll realise how much it keeps the spammers from ruining things. And the blue number is actually a tally of how many voats you've given out! You can see everyone's number of upvoats and downvoats to posts and comments in their pages. Pretty neat, huh?

orange_viper ago

Ah okay I see - thanks, and also it's pretty easy to circumvent. Just create a new account and upvote all your comments. Upvoting should really be disabled for new users too.

dynamiteVacancy ago

Yeah it feels like it but I guess they just want someone to not be able to do a lot of damage with a single account without discouraging new users with all these restrictions.

TheGunslinger ago

That makes sense. It'll be nice to be free from all the fucking shills.

smashbery ago

fucking shills

Beaded_Periwinkle ago

Fuck the shills.

ModernIconoclast ago

I despise shills... I'm migrating from a based subbreddit and i am currently collecting upgoats

Pear_Whelk ago

Me too, have an upgoat.

Crensch ago

That makes sense. It'll be nice to be free from all the fucking shills.

Free? NO SIR. Goats have horns on their heads for a reason; time to get your ass in the trenches with the rest of us.

Rotteuxx ago

We still have them, but they are dedicated professionals for the most part, ya know... higher standards I guess.

Don't forget to also ping @HenryCorp in you comments once in a while, keep that inbox annoyingly full.

LusciousFox ago

Whats that about @HenryCorp?

TheGunslinger ago

What do you mean about Henry Corp?

6922303? ago

Lol. There are some personalities you will get to know here. You will hear of the legend of Amalek also. If you want some voat drama lols you should check out the verse I created and promptly abandoned (left the whole internet for a short while, came back and tried to pretened it didn't happen...) - /v/theology ... I prepared myself for atheists but not what happened.

Rotteuxx ago

@CANCEL-CAT-FACTS should gladly fill you in on this tid bit of Voat culture.

TheGunslinger ago

I love cat facts though :(

Rotteuxx ago

Sorry bud, we're all about goats over here... but not in that sick muslim way, No Siree !!

And welding, join /v/welding !!

TheGunslinger ago

Welding? I'm not a welder though.

Rotteuxx ago

Well I try mt best to post interesting OC over there, always worth a few clicks !

Pumbadog ago

Then fuck you faggot

TheGunslinger ago

I just ordered "welding for dummies" because of you.

Pumbadog ago

I believe welding a skill every person should at least attempt. Make you really respect the trade, plus it's really fun once you can legit build things. Welding, brazing, soft soldering, all around wood work, plumbing, and electrical troubleshooting are all skills any person can pick up and should learn if they are able.

Ps with a response like that, you are alright.

Rotteuxx ago

I've always highly respected polymaths, imo any person who doesn't strive to be as polyvalent as possible deserves to pay out of their ass for tradesmen to fix everything for them.

Knowledge is free, basic tools are cheap, no excuse !

TheGunslinger ago

I guess I'll have to adapt to goat facts then.

Crensch ago

@HenryCorp is Voat's quintessential RedditPowerMod. He games the system to try and force his ideas on others.

TheGunslinger ago

So if I included @henrycorp it fucks him up some? Fuck man, I came here to get away from that shit.

Crensch ago

Sorry, ping means that the user will get a notification in their inbox, whereas /u/usernamehere will not notify the user.

Crensch ago

You can ping a user using @usernamehere instead of /u/usernamehere.

He is mostly quarantined to his subverses, but he occasionally opens the flood gates to shit around. Usually someone picks up on it and gives us a warning post.

https://voat.co/v/introductions/1350015/6892142

TheGunslinger ago

Reading that link... I like this place.

TheGunslinger ago

Thanks for the heads up.

Crensch ago

No charge.

TheGunslinger ago

One last question: on my screen, right after my user name, there are 3 numbers, separated by |. What do they signify?

Crensch ago

SCP | CCP | Upvoats given

TheGunslinger ago

Thanks for your help. :)

Crensch ago

Anytime.

ArcticDweller ago

Mahhhhh!