Posts like these are intended to hijack the movement to make us seem like white supremacists. People in The_Donald fell for a similar post, an Asian guy telling 'us' white people that he's proud of his race and we should be too. 5k+ upvotes.
Problem? Pride in skin color is no different than hatred toward skin color.
I know this is voat and n'er this, n'er that but this is the truth.
If you have racial pride, you're racist.
That all said, yes I'm a Q follower, white, male, married, and aware Jews rule the world.
Stay on track, do not fall into the trap of an imbecile.
Actually, I'd suggest that you're being pushed into the direction of what the far left imagines the conservatives in America are today rather than standing your ground based on logic, morals, and principles. The far left is controlling your beliefs by being so damn radical, pushing you there too. Consider it.
I don't even know what that means but I'm not aligned with Israel like Trump if that helps. Against the mass migration and NGOs taxi feeding from Libya to Europe or Mexico to the US.
It's no danger to me. That law doesn't afford any action against me, only action toward folks reporting on the state of anti-Semitism. Kinda like state funded doxxing. But I don't care: they've always known about me. I'm right here.
The reports will no doubt be used to frame the narrative though.
The only anti-Israel action that Trump's done is pulling out of Syria which is pretty huge I'll admit. Beyond that, he's suckling on Israel's teet when their soldiers and firing on children and their citizens are what the far left imagines conservatives in America are today.
I appreciate your post, because though you oppose the notion of pride in race, you endeavor to engage with the argument earnestly. This is quite rare, and is commendable.
I, however, support the notion of racial pride and would like you to take into consideration my arguments regarding your opposition.
For the sake of clarification. I would suggest you are making a category mistake pitting pride antagonistically to hate. We might more accurately consider hate the foe of love, and for pride, we might say shame. In the case of pride versus shame, a good choice may very well be pride, every time.
I would gather, however, that your point is more along the lines of saying that "skin color" is irrelevant, and instead of pride, or shame, we should more properly be indifferent to it, or we would be "racist[s]".
To this point I have two responses:
Firstly, the concept of race cannot be reduced to the the feature of skin color, or any other single phenotypical expression. Race, more properly, refers to the heritage by which a person has come to exist. That is, the lineage from which they have derived the particulars of their being. As such, race is a crucial part of one's self.
We take pride, and love our race, in the same way we might love the parts of our body. Not exactly because of the way they look, compared to others (though that's innocuous enough), but because they are our parts. We don't feel shame for having our legs; we don't feel indifferent to owning our arms; we love and cherish our own lives, and feel proud, fortunate, and grateful to have been gifted them.
So it is with race. As we love our bodies, and our minds, we also love our genes, and our people. Our ancestors and our progeny. Our brothers and our cousins. We love them not because they are better, but because they are ours. We take pride in them not because they are superior, but because they are part of us; and we take pride in ourselves.
Secondly, if having "racial pride" is "racist", then it's OK to be racist. If all one means by racist is hateful, then say hateful. If all one means by racist is ignorant, then say ignorant. If all one means by racist is prejudiced, then say prejudiced. So if not all these things, then what does "racist" mean? Is it a person who believes races exist? Only in the case of whites. Is it a person who believes races are different? Yes, if they're white. Is it a person who prefers his own race over others? As long as they're white. Is it a person who is proud of being a member of his race? Definitely. If his race is the White race, that is.
The notion of "racism" is a weapon used against Whites by agents seeking to destabilize White nations. It is a vague/empty/nothing term, ready to be applied in any situation to instill shame in oneself, through the denigration of one's people. It's propaganda. It is successful propaganda. And we are trying to rid ourselves from it.
Through this inflicted propaganda, we have destroyed our history, taken down our heroes, and disparaged and trampled on the memories of our fore-bearers. We have done this ourselves, to our own being, because of fear of being racist, and lack of racial pride. Generosity, kindness, and heroism beyond any in the world, has not been enough to rid Whitekind of the shame of their "privilege". The atrocity of murder is a worse sin, when committed by a White person against a member of another race. Call it out, complain, mention it, or even "have it in your thoughts" when doing something else, and anything you do is forever marred by the stain of race "hate". If your White, of course.
All of it because of the propaganda of racism.
Racism is the whip and chains of our occupation, in the West, which is leading to our downfall.
And it only exists because we believe it.
They are lies. And they are empty.
I'm am proud to see this truth. I'm proud to be back, loving my people. And I'm proud to take pride in who I am, heritage and all.
I truly hope you take pride in your race one day too, and that you might consider these arguments in favor of it.
First off, your post really got me thinking to simplify my explanation as much as possible for a better foundation of what I believe so thanks for that.
Simply put, I find it destructive to collectivize "for" or "against" physical attributes. I think you picked up on this then wanted me to see the broader picture which I can appreciate but race carries the connotation of skin color. There are better words to associate with pride (if we must) such as cultural, ethnic, heritage, nationality, etc.
I love everything about myself and the life I lived to get to where I am today and I am grateful for everything that had to happen for me to be born. I respect traditions that are passed down and I evaluate which ones I appreciate most as well as incorporate other cultures'.
I'm not sold on the history of racism in the context given but I'm familiar with similar topics with that origination and intent.
I'll say this. Racism sucks. Overthinking it sucks. Overclassifying it sucks. Grouping people into these categories sucks because it pins them against each other. This is why collectivism based on physical attributes is a horrible idea. I can see how and why we'd be baited into it because we would love to preserve our heritage and culture, even nationality. However, assuming race is the same thing without recognizing the dire consequences of swearing allegiance to the skin color will become even more destructive via coup or false flags. There will be no escape from association. Furthermore, there's no point swearing allegiance to the color of your skin. It changes in the sun.
P.S. that last paragraph was just shooting from the hip because I've crafted the others above it over the course of hours with great comtemplation of your post with colleagues walking up and down my cube row. Don't take any offense to it.
I admit to some difficulty about knowing what best to respond to. But I appreciate the effort of carrying out a conversation, so I will do my best.
Initially, I would take issue with your insistence in the association of race, with skin color. Race, more properly, is to be understood as a much greater concept.
If we are to divide the human species into its constituent groupings, race would be the first large set of groups we make. Within races we might further down find ethnic groups. And within these, smaller groups we might call nations. Further down we might speak of villages, or enclaves, etc.
These groups developed naturally, on their own, through thousands of years of divergent evolution, which provided them with differing traits, among them skin color. Besides skin color, however, this isolated development had an impact on nearly every other human trait, whether physical, or mental, or emotional. Not enough time passed for these groups to have diverged too much though (they are still part of the same species), but it would be wrong to say they only have skin color as a difference. They have different mental capacities, behavioral proclivities, and internal makeup. They can be identified by their test scores, by their cultural facets, by the diseases they are susceptible to, and even by their fossilized remains.
So when we speak about race, we are not merely referring to some superficial, arbitrary distinction. Is is a reflection upon the path our ancestors took, through their history, up until the point we arrive at ourselves; how that path was not the only one taken by the many human groups; and that one is different from the others.
Nations, in this context, for example, are better understood as a group of people within a race that developed in isolation from other groups, and incurred differences associated with the land to which their generations were bred (think, Cherokee nation). Today, this concept has been degraded to a political entity, rather than biological, in the case of White Nations.
If race were just something arbitrary, I would agree "collectivizing" in its support would be "destructive", or at least unproductive. However, it is worth pointing out that people have collectivized under ideological banners throughout all of human history. Maybe you're a "capitalist", or an "individualist"; or maybe even a "communist". Maybe you're a "Christian", or a "Catholic"; or increasingly, these days, an "Atheist". Whatever these positions entail, and with whichever good the reasons they may have to do so, people group up (collectivize...) under these labels, even though the don't need to do so (...arbitrarily). We know they don't actually need to collectivize, because they often change their minds, and along with them, their affiliations.
But if we take race to be as I've defined it. You can't just choose not to be part of your race, anymore than you could choose not to be part of your species. So it isn't a matter of affiliation. Your bond is biological, and immutable. You are that which your race is.
Now, if some nefarious entity wished to alter this bond of race, in order to profit from its dissolution, or gain power in the turmoil, they would have to use highly sophisticated and pervasive propaganda. With enough coverage that it could change the perception of the majority of people as to what constitutes reality.
It turns out, that in modern times, this isn't so difficult. We often forget how powerful something like Television is, when it comes to altering our reality. Today, in Western countries, mass media is controlled by people with an Anti-White agenda. So is print media; so are the school systems; the universities; the entertainment industry; the churches.
While they can't truly ever break the bond we have to our race, they can distort our reality. They can have us believe races don't exist; or that they don't matter; or that it is evil to think of race (they push these messages only on Whites, in White nations). All the while, they push the "positives" of multiculturalism, and diversity; promote and force mass immigration schemes to White countries; and incentivize the furthering of minority populations, within White lands.
The confluence of differing racial groups occupying the same political space, inevitably leads to a battle of interests, and a fight among naturally (immutably) distinct groups.
These White nations, which have developed for thousands of years, and came to spread and conquer many new lands, have been infiltrated. And instead of using guns, our enemies are using psychology to have us destroy ourselves, and discard our heritage. And it has been working.
We forget who we are at our peril, and we can only fight back, once we recognize the truth of our natural bonds.
Human flourishing, for all races, can only occur in a state where independent homogeneous nations can be allowed to freely develop unperturbed and unburdened with each other.
I'm not denying the natural progression and existence of the race classification nor its usefulness but to swear allegiance to it is a different story. This is where we differ.
Our society is completely entrenched when correlating race with skin color. There's no escaping it. To deny that it is one of the first things that comes to mind for 90% of Americans would be almost ridiculous to believe.
Let's take your natural race progression example. White man and black man may have been under developed or developed differently at one time. Perhaps the white man was more developed. So the white man and black man weren't able to communicate or rationalize the same goals. They went their different ways. Fine.
However, that natural progression is more aligned with culture than it is skin color. Sure, the different ethnicities were conflicting with one another but that wasn't because of their skin color. The skin color was an attribute that helped everyone associate with one another. Their clashing ideas was a matter of culture.
This is the point. America is a melting pot, there's no denying this. I'm not pro-immigration and in fact I think we should stop taking in any immigrants until we solve the homeless problem. However, to pride ourselves on race while in this racially charged time only separates us more. Our society has, for the most part, gotten along and had an American/western culture to it. Whites, African Americans, Asians, Hispanics can all work together. Sure we may have pockets of poverty, gangs, etc. but I'm not talking about those. CULTURE should be our only concern of preservation. Preserving RACE is purely a defense mechanism triggered by anti-Zionists (intelligent people aware of their agenda) and those ignorant of the consequences. Since the Zionists want a mixed slave race, our natural position is to refuse the order of the Zionist. However, we do not rationally consider the consequences of promoting racial pride and separation. It is proven to degenerate America. If we're living in a different country where there are no mixed races and it's purely white, sure... go ahead and preserve that lifestyle to refute the inevitable political struggle. That is not my battle. My battle is America. We aren't going to deport non-white citizens.
Promoting pockets of racial pride is certainly not the answer, this will be a war zone by the time its done and that'll happen if us white people start encouraging more events like Charlottesville (before the false flag psyop). If you look into the truth of what happened at Charlottesville, you'll find that your solution will lead to more pride events like that which WILL and HAVE BEEN PROVEN to have false flag psyops to make the movement look bad. You're essentially creating a perfect false flag opportunity for the enemy with literally nothing to gain. In the end, the movement will get hijacked and everyone associated will have their legacy tarnished for generations. It's so easy to see...
I believe we're at the point of where we will need to agree to disagree but I encourage you to look into Charlottesville... how the woman that died was a different woman than the official story presented and she died from a heart attack (own mother said so), and how the truth tried to get out on the so-called free-speech platform Gab.ai then its registrar threatened 24h to take it down unless they suppressed evidence contradicting the official narrative... you'll see exactly how just the media alone can shape the narrative to destroy an entire movement. KK|< had its roots taken from under it and there was no going back. Dav1d Duk3 is a perfect example of a tarnished legacy destroyed forever. Hijacked.
Give consideration to how racial (instead of culture) pride has no benefit yet risks everything. One simple hijack = game over.
You are a well meaning person and I appreciate you taking the time to expound on and clarify your views. I will endeavor to clarify my own.
I am aware of the Charlottesville events, and I agree with your conclusion that given the state of White people in America, there are large risks to espousing racial pride, as long as you're White. While I see this as a sad situation, that Whites can't feel pride in their race within their own country, I agree that the state of their gaslighting makes it too volatile for anyone to dare say the taboo thing. Let's remember that the reason the Charlottesville event was so demonized, is because the Cabal, and Global interests want to maintain their campaign against White America. The event in Charlottesville sought to protest the taking down of a Robert E. Lee statue. Along with immigration to reduce White American numbers, they want to erase American History.
I suppose I would insist that this is a terrible state of affairs and that we must do what we can, talking to each other to rid ourselves of this self-defeating mindset.
I believe this is proper given what I take to be my own understanding of human nature, as it differs from your own.
I would suggest to you, to clarify the issue more definitively, that what races are, is an arrangement of diverging paths in the lineage of different human groups given their geographical isolation. These changes are marked by variances in DNA. Today, after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, and the piling accumulation of different gene sequences, we find the existence of different human races, whose DNA is different from each other. Part of this DNA accounts for their different skin color. But that is the least of it. Other bits of DNA account for differences in much more important traits: like intelligence. Still other parts of our DNA are reflected in the way in which we form our societies, the languages we create, and the culture we come to produce. The gap between race and culture is not as it seems, and wherever you find people of one particular race in enough numbers to cal themselves a community, you will come to see the makings of a culture akin to their natural ways. So it is that blacks in Africa, America, Brazil, and Haiti express many of the same cultural traits. Similarly, Whites in South Africa, Argentina, and Sweden adopt similar customs, and organize their societies with the same instinctive tendencies. A very obvious example is the great amount of Chinese communities in nearly every developed country which are but a slice of China outside of Asia.
So it is clear to me that it is simply a mistake to think of race as something as inconsequential and superficial as skin color. Of course you can tell someone's race by their skin color, usually, but race is much more than this. And the numbers bare this out.
Take IQ, for example. IQ has been studied for over a hundred years now, in practically every country on earth, and the results have been ever consistent. Asians come out on top; Whites come second; and Blacks come last, when it comes to average IQ scores. Could you find a Black person smarter and a Japanese person? Of course. But randomly take a hundred of each, and the results will be replicated yet again.
It just so happens IQ is a very important trait. By the time the Europeans had figured out how to circumnavigate the Globe, in sub-Saharan Africa, there was no written language, wheel, or multi-story dwelling. Were there smart Blacks then, as smart as today? Sure. But the Black race doesn't produce high IQ people in enough numbers to manage the building of as high degree of civilization as either Europeans or Asians. It didn't then, and it still doesn't today.
And IQ isn't the only thing determined by DNA. Asians are by all accounts smarter than Whites, but something in the White makeup allows for philosophical thinking, and a type of creative expression that is lacking in the Asian brain. Blacks are seemingly unparalleled in athleticism, especially in matters of speed. These are all products of our DNA, and mark the differences between our races.
If we realize that we can expect, not only a different appearance from members of a different race, but also a different behavior on average, then we can understand why in places like America, where there are large populations of several races, their achievements seem to be so different. Why are blacks poorer? Ultimately, because their Black. Asians happen to be richer than Whites in America. And that's probably because their Asian. The violent crime race in America is often touted as a way to try and curtail gun ownership. But if we only take into account White violent crime, America is no different than any other European country, where guns are banned. As a matter of fact, if we take into consideration only Black crime, America would line up with other African countries in violent crime statistics.
These are the facts of life and how reality works, and when we understand it and accept it our experience of it becomes comprehensible, and everything fits into place.
American Whites, as well as other Whites around the world, have been victims, however, of a campaign of Cultural Marxism, where they try to blame the natural differences in achievement between Blacks and Whites on White Racism towards Blacks. Before this campaign the concept of racism as an injury from one group to another didn't exist. It is a form of propaganda used by the Cabal to induce guilt in Whites, and outrage in Blacks.
The ultimate point of having White pride is to break free of this spell, do away with it's influence, and accept reality. That way we can take away this weapon of the Cabal over our minds.
I would advocate we don't cower away from this effort, in fear of being attacked with this very weapon, because until we are willing to face the possible backlash, we will not come to disarm them. Let's remember that this weapon of theirs only works when we turn on each other. When we shun each other without hearing each other out.
I believe we can do better and we have been taking steps forward of late.
I will add that simply because races are different. Some smarter, some dumber. Some faster some slower. This does not mean that we ought to hate them, of course.
Ideally we would seek to preserve our differences, even when that means some might have cleverer countries than others, and that the Black countries will win all the Track medals in the Olympics.
Our natural state is to be with our own nations (races) in our own lands (countries), and this would be the best hope for our mutual flourishing. This is after all, how countries formed in the first place.
I don't however, advocate for the expulsion of citizens from their adopted lands. In places where the minority populations are small, like in Hungary or Japan, the minorities will get absorbed, or otherwise be forced to toe the majority line. In places like the US, where the minority populations are so large, there will linger a lasting tension, which might at least be ameliorated if we properly understand the actual effects of race on our behavior as groups and recognize these effects in our disparate outcomes as sectors of the population. If given true freedom of association (without relocation, busing, housing, quotas, etc) we might see these groups self segregating, as they had been doing before the advent of the Cultural Marxist campaign. And that might actually be best for all.
I hope you take this explanation on my part as well meaning, and you see where someone with my views is approaching the issue. I hope you also would consider the inherent truths of my position, as I claim them, and look into them further.
We deserve better than to be tricked and alienated from ourselves, and our biggest source of meaning: our blood, both past, and future.
I appreciate the conversation but I don't think there's any moving the goalpost for either of us. I'm not for racial pride since race carries the heavy connotation of skin color. There are better words to use.
So it is clear to me that it is simply a mistake to think of race as something as inconsequential and superficial as skin color.
Inconsequential is poorly used here because current events reflect the opposite. We're living in an era where race/skin color is politicized so heavily that it's detrimental to say 'all lives matter' rather than 'black lives matter.'
I acknowledge the differences in race and the stereotypes of their wholeness but I reject your conclusions on how/why non-whites are the way they are... and this warrants a different in-depth conversation that I won't indulge. Simply stated, correlation <> causation.
White Pride won't break free of any spell, it will encourage it. You will feel as though you're breaking free from their agenda then when you're swallowed up by the echo chamber you'll have no way out. Further division is inevitable, I'm not sure how you cannot foresee this. Your Utopian belief of this strategy will be way off mark when implemented because there will be no authority figure to respect. The only authority figure for this movement is Richard Spencer and he doesn't have a solid plan at all. I've heard him talk through it many times. He's more interested in more appearances and getting the word out than having an effective strategy. This movement has no leader and it will get hijacked.
Self-segregation is key but the question is why. I want to leave society but it has nothing to do with the color of my skin, it has to do with values. It is my belief that an honest movement to segregate with prosperity must address values and nothing else. You believe racial pride groups do this, I do not.
Mark my words, if White Pride catches on in America, an event (false flag or not, doesn't matter) will tarnish its reputation and those associated... forever. It's a disorganized solution that sets up the perfect storm for the enemy.
This was an attempt to hijack/derail. That being said:
Humans are tribal by design, and tribalism is another side of the same coin as racism. Nothing wrong with this reality unless you ignore it. No one is asking you to preserve your race beyond means necessary, rather that you not turn a blind eye to threats against your race. This is not a call to action for revolution, but and advisory to be vigilant and SMART about the current state of affairs. By smart, I mean non violent, unless you are in imminent danger with no other means.
I agree with this. I tossed in the mixed slave race JWO piece to acknowledge I'm aware of (((their))) plan. I'm simply against shifting toward racial pride as the bastion of preservation.
Agreed. We need to shift our pride in skin color to one of culture. Out cultural pride should be the bastion preservation. After all that is how we are defined.
You will live to see the result of ignoring that different cultures have different values, and that these values are fundamentally incompatible with each other in many cases.
Your call against collectivism is only heeded by white people. Other races are just laughing at you for being so stupid as to willingly destroy your own countries. Your idealism doesn't matter because nobody else is playing by those rules. Third worlders from Somalia don't care about morality and ethics and they don't have any respect for your culture.
You will live to see the naivety of your insulated and sheltered opinion come to fruition.
You will live to see the result of ignoring that different cultures have different values, and that these values are fundamentally incompatible with each other in many cases.
Wrong. I'm aware of the culture clashing ideologies as can be seen throughout my responses in this thread and by acknowledging the mixed slave race desire of the JWO. The problem is CULTURE, not RACE. That's the entire point of my objection.
Your call against collectivism is only heeded by white people. Other races are just laughing at you for being so stupid as to willingly destroy your own countries.
I reject the notion that we preserve America by collectivizing under White Pride. You'd get infiltrated and false flagged so hard and fast your head would spin. Your name would be contaminated for the rest of your life by having the association. Don't believe me? That's what happened with Dav1d Duk3 after the KK|< was hijacked.
Your idealism doesn't matter because nobody else is playing by those rules. Third worlders from Somalia don't care about morality and ethics and they don't have any respect for your culture.
Idealism is not my focus. My focus is to bring awareness of toxic collectivism like racial pride so like-minded people on Voat don't go down the same roads I've gone down before, getting swallowed up by the echo chamber.
You will live to see the naivety of your insulated and sheltered opinion come to fruition.
These words strung together make you seem intelligent but I'm lost. What opinion of mine will come to fruition?
Culture is inextricably linked to race. People identify their culture on their race. If you allow other races to mongrelize your own the result will be the death of your people. The American of life will end.
Immigrants illegal and otherwise vote 90+% Democrat. They vote for open borders and welfare programs for themselves. These immigrants are overwhelmingly non white.
If you don't take pride in preserving your race nobody else will.
What opinion
Collectivism is not toxic. It is necessary to preserve your own existence. The NWO media told you it was toxic. When their legitimacy is destroyed there will be no one to call it toxic.
Culture is inextricably linked to race. People identify their culture on their race. If you allow other races to mongrelize your own the result will be the death of your people. The American way of life will end.
Wrong. Correlation <> Causation. You think black Americans identify with their African culture, half naked clothing, drums, and multicolored hats for their rituals?
If you don't take pride in preserving your race nobody else will.
I don't take pride in preserving my race but I will defend the honor of truth and persecuted individuals because it's the right thing to do. You won't see me joining white pride groups, white preservation however... sure.
Collectivism is largely toxic by today's standards and sure we're meant to be tribal in ways but subscribing to racial pride groups is toxic to me. Racial pride = racist. You can steer an argument to say it's for preservation purposes all you want but that's not called pride. That's called preservation. Pride infers superiority. There's a reason it's one of the seven deadly sins...
Not always, but sometimes they do. It took hundreds of years to get to that point. Black Americans are the integral exception to the rule of the white supermajority in the USA, because of that whole slavery debacle perpetrated by the NWO. However in many places they still shame outgroup for "acting white" and as a group they still commit massively more crime than any other group in the USA. Still I would not deny that they are an integral part of America. In many ways what makes America America as much as whites.
Is it just the word "pride" you have a problem with? Pride = supremacy but 14 words are ok?
Not toxic for Chinese though is it? Not toxic for Japanese though is it? Not toxic for Indians though is it? Or any other group except whites? Weird huh?
So what do you call the organized effort for white collectivist preservation? If not racial pride? Is it literally just a marketing issue to you? Seems petty
An exception to the rule means the rule is not correct. I don't want to turn this post into a hate-bash against the scientific community but this is exactly what they do. They create a rule that works 'for now' then when it's disproven it goes away as if it never existed.
America isn't the only exception, there's many black Germans that align themselves with German culture over African.
Cultures can and do exist with other races, it's the mass migration of conflicting ideologies that causes the problem. Half our country is a bunch of white libtards and I dislike engaging with them more than any other libtard. They're myopic virtue signaling SJWs and if this made up 50% of our country (probably more like 40%), our culture would be screwed and that's with minimal invasion of Islam. Frankfurt School would've been successful.
Not toxic for Chinese though is it? Not toxic for Japanese though is it? Not toxic for Indians though is it? Or any other group except whites? Weird huh?
Actually "AzN PRiDe" was my first encounter recognizing that racial pride was an issue when I played Starcraft in 2000. So yes, racial pride is toxic for all.
So what do you call the organized effort for white collectivist preservation? If not racial pride? Is it literally just a marketing issue to you? Seems petty
You saved the best for last. I'd prefer "white preservation" over "white pride" and it may seem like marketing but the consequences otherwise are dire. Aside from the inevitable socio-developmental toxicity, if you align with "white pride" with good intentions to save the white population, all it'll take is one false flag or infiltrated member to tarnish everyone associated for the rest of their lives. See Dav1d Duk3.
Also, I mentioned in a few other posts that race has a direct correlation to skin color. I'm not a fan of pride itself but if you need to be proud of something choose ethnicity, heritage, or nationality -- not race. Skin color can change in the Sun. Why does a color deserve your allegiance?
Do you know what a supermajority is? I never said that America is a white Ethnostate. America is a country with a white supermajority. The other population consisting the USA is black Americans.
there's many black Germans that align themselves with German culture over African
There's really not very many, not anywhere close to 13% of population. There's fewer than 1 million black Germans in a country of 80+ million. What I am trying to express is a little bit larger conceptually than navel gazing over your personal experience with Starcraft.
The Chinese people, in China, are not ashamed of being a collectively Chinese country. There is nobody shaming the Chinese people for not bringing in more immigrants from Africa. The Japanese people, in Japan, are not being shamed for being a collectivist ethnostate, which by all standards they are. The Japanese have always been more ethnically and racially homogenous than America, or nearly any other country. Nobody is shaming them in the media for doing this and they have no reason to feel ashamed. It's literally not a problem. But for you, it's a problem if white people have even the protection of their own country against outsiders, which is patently ridiculous.
Why do you keep bringing up David Duke? The KKK was a Democrat organization that has always been patently racist. It wasn't just suddenly racist when the Feds coopted it. It was always blatantly racist. This is about the protection of white people. Ethnicity, heritage, nationality and race are all linked together. A race of people hails from a homeland where they all share a culture and racial characteristics. This isn't that hard to understand. Race is more than skin color. There is a reason that genetic differences exist between different races. It's just a fact. All people are not genetically the same. Preserving your genetics is not wrong. I am not admonishing the Chinese or Japanese for preserving their race or culture. Only saying that it is not wrong for whites to do the same.
Huh? I'm not pro-immigration by any means. We have homeless people that we need a solution for before even considering bringing more people into our country. You're inventing an argument I don't have, stop strawmanning.
KK|< was a civil rights movement that was infiltrated by the IC to create the narrative as we know it today. Look into it.
I'm not pro-immigration (homeless solution has priority) but we aren't going to force non-white immigrants from America. Stop living in this fantasy. We are a melting pot whether you like it or not and if you're suggesting a non-white cleanse of America, just say it. Otherwise, start following and supporting Richard Spencer's ideology. Perhaps you'll recognize how far you're driven away from your own beliefs based on your opposition pushing you there.
Pride in skin color is no different than hatred toward skin color.
It's absolutely different. You can like who you are and your racial heritage without hating other people.
If you have racial pride, you're racist.
No, if you judge people based on the color of their skin and not their individual characteristics, you're a racist. Being proud of your heritage does not make you a racist. How in the world do you come to these conclusions?
Being proud of your heritage doesn't mean you think you're better than other races, it just means you are proud of your heritage.
I'm not sure if I didn't read fully or if you edited when I responded with strawman but... to properly respond:
You can like who you are and your racial heritage without hating other people.
This is where this goes into semantics. "who you are" is something I'd challenge. You'd probably say that our ancestors did x,y,z and we should be proud of it and we are who we are because of them. This is horrible logic. This is the same mentality that enslaves us to white guilt. We cannot have it both ways. You are NOT who you are because of your ancestors, you were born because of your ancestors and certain DNA has you behave and look certain ways but YOUR PERSON IS NOT DEFINED by ancestors. You MAKE CHOICES to DEFINE yourself.
Enough with the collectivism please, it's so toxic.
You are splitting hairs. You are deconstructing posts, making your own conclusions then arguing against a literal strawman after accusing others of doing the same.
. You'd probably say that our ancestors did x,y,z and we should be proud of it
This is an actual strawman. You inferred a conclusion that wasn't presented and then argued against it.
I don't know if I've ever seen someone so obviously oblivious to their own hypocrisy.. This proof you are literally retarded. Seriously, get the fuck out of this discussion. You aren't even capable of contributing
Strawmanning wouldn't suggest with the "probably," it would dictate an argument.
I intentionally put that forward to speed up the process of you defining what you meant by "who you are" -- if I'm wrong on this please correct me. You seem to be defined by your ancestors.
Strawman: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
I did not intend to misrepresent your argument. I even asked you to please correct me. I see you folded then doubled down on it. Sorry to see you go so soon, I was looking forward to learning how you feel you are defined. It seems you had enough of the cognitive dissonance hitting your poor lil brain so you couldn't effectively proceed in the intellectual discussion. Travel with hard hats, friend.
You did engage in strawman and you are unwilling to acknowledge it which means you are pridefully disingenuous, facetiously proceeding as if you founded a discussion on a legitimate premise and therefore aren't worth talking to. You are a charlatan and a hack, and not worth wasting time in discussion with because you will only do the same thing again. I have no interest in a discussion with someone who is willfully disingenuous.
Dude, this post does NOT in anyway suggest that it is about white supremacy. Having white pride is no difference than having Asian, Black, Indian, etc etc Pride. What we really have to do is really understand that white people are attacked and that soon enough may be extinguished due to the left's policy of division and hate.
I don't think not hating yourself for being white is racist. However saying that you're searching for "race traitors" (as stated in title of this post) is racist. It's a bait and switch. Put a ton of good points at the beginning but just a drop of fatal poison at the end.
Actually the post does as it mentions pride. I agree 100% with your last sentence but this isn't going to force me into white pride. It's going to force me to broadcast that truth while sh1tting on the concept of white guilt.
Posts like these are intended to hijack the movement to make us seem like white supremacists.
That and karma farming. Might as well setup a sign at a grocery store checkout saying “Donate $1 to support this pro life organization and if you don’t then we know you murder babies and possibly eat them”. Oh and the organization would be anonymous, so it could be a pro life org or it could really be planned parenthood, the risks of anonymity. The fact this made front page shows just how gullible people still are.
Pride is different than hatred. I hope you don't have to believe they're the same to feel ethical. I would call that a blue pill. Just be honest with yourself. It's ok to believe pride and hate are different. It's correct in fact.
Yeah maybe. My point is pride and hate are different. Usually a lot different. Our culture tries to conflate the terms which I like to call a blue pill. This turns off the brain because hate is off limits. Voat is here to free your mind. We can't do that if you keep taking the pride is hate blue pill. Language can and does control thought.
You're leaving out context then strawmanning me. I'm not sure if you intended to do that or not but let me break it down for you.
Pride and Hate are different sides of the spectrum. When having PRIDE in skin color and when having HATE in skin color, they're effectively amounting to the same thing: racial preference, superiority, inferiority, etc.
It would be similar to having pride of eye color. BLUE EYES MATTER.
This has nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with preventing the toxic collectivism that'll result from the ideological trap.
They're still not the same thing. Loving something isn't hating everything else. Hating something is significantly more malicious than loving something or having pride in something.
The opposite of pride would be shame or embarassment, but it feels like you're putting it on the love-hate scale and equating not loving with hating.
I don't think I'm strawmanning you. I think you're blue pilled and it's preventing you from thinking clearly.
In some instances pride and hate can have the same effect such as if I hire a nanny the same race as me even though the nanny I interviewed of a different race seemed a bit better. I think you mean something along these lines, but that is more accurately described as discriminating based on racial preference. It's separate from love hate pride or embarassment. It's in-group preference - a much more interesting and honest debate topic.
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16637745? ago
Posts like these are intended to hijack the movement to make us seem like white supremacists. People in The_Donald fell for a similar post, an Asian guy telling 'us' white people that he's proud of his race and we should be too. 5k+ upvotes.
Problem? Pride in skin color is no different than hatred toward skin color.
I know this is voat and n'er this, n'er that but this is the truth.
If you have racial pride, you're racist.
That all said, yes I'm a Q follower, white, male, married, and aware Jews rule the world.
Stay on track, do not fall into the trap of an imbecile.
16663119? ago
Only you think that being proud of white race is supremacist. You are buying into what the far left wants..
16777977? ago
Actually, I'd suggest that you're being pushed into the direction of what the far left imagines the conservatives in America are today rather than standing your ground based on logic, morals, and principles. The far left is controlling your beliefs by being so damn radical, pushing you there too. Consider it.
16642531? ago
Whatsup Shapiro?
16642687? ago
Eh?
16642781? ago
You're all for the browning of America, right?
16643528? ago
I don't even know what that means but I'm not aligned with Israel like Trump if that helps. Against the mass migration and NGOs taxi feeding from Libya to Europe or Mexico to the US.
16643665? ago
Besides lip service and a few very aggravating actions, he didn't seem to be doing what Israel wants. Certainly not what the media wants.
And before you cry "cognitive dissonance", tell me how Israel's dirty deeds becoming more widely known helps them or the cabal.
16870470? ago
I just came across this today... and thought you'd appreciate the knowledge. I'm shocked, frankly. https://imgoat.com/uploads/4d9ee44e45/198189.png
16872655? ago
It's no danger to me. That law doesn't afford any action against me, only action toward folks reporting on the state of anti-Semitism. Kinda like state funded doxxing. But I don't care: they've always known about me. I'm right here.
The reports will no doubt be used to frame the narrative though.
16887773? ago
Touche & that's how I feel as well but it's disgusting that there's a database of those that question the narrative.
16777948? ago
The only anti-Israel action that Trump's done is pulling out of Syria which is pretty huge I'll admit. Beyond that, he's suckling on Israel's teet when their soldiers and firing on children and their citizens are what the far left imagines conservatives in America are today.
16778992? ago
He's building a wall and promoting America first. No war with NK. No war with Russia. Bringing troops home.
You are blind or lying
16640592? ago
I appreciate your post, because though you oppose the notion of pride in race, you endeavor to engage with the argument earnestly. This is quite rare, and is commendable.
I, however, support the notion of racial pride and would like you to take into consideration my arguments regarding your opposition.
For the sake of clarification. I would suggest you are making a category mistake pitting pride antagonistically to hate. We might more accurately consider hate the foe of love, and for pride, we might say shame. In the case of pride versus shame, a good choice may very well be pride, every time.
I would gather, however, that your point is more along the lines of saying that "skin color" is irrelevant, and instead of pride, or shame, we should more properly be indifferent to it, or we would be "racist[s]".
To this point I have two responses:
Firstly, the concept of race cannot be reduced to the the feature of skin color, or any other single phenotypical expression. Race, more properly, refers to the heritage by which a person has come to exist. That is, the lineage from which they have derived the particulars of their being. As such, race is a crucial part of one's self.
We take pride, and love our race, in the same way we might love the parts of our body. Not exactly because of the way they look, compared to others (though that's innocuous enough), but because they are our parts. We don't feel shame for having our legs; we don't feel indifferent to owning our arms; we love and cherish our own lives, and feel proud, fortunate, and grateful to have been gifted them.
So it is with race. As we love our bodies, and our minds, we also love our genes, and our people. Our ancestors and our progeny. Our brothers and our cousins. We love them not because they are better, but because they are ours. We take pride in them not because they are superior, but because they are part of us; and we take pride in ourselves.
Secondly, if having "racial pride" is "racist", then it's OK to be racist. If all one means by racist is hateful, then say hateful. If all one means by racist is ignorant, then say ignorant. If all one means by racist is prejudiced, then say prejudiced. So if not all these things, then what does "racist" mean? Is it a person who believes races exist? Only in the case of whites. Is it a person who believes races are different? Yes, if they're white. Is it a person who prefers his own race over others? As long as they're white. Is it a person who is proud of being a member of his race? Definitely. If his race is the White race, that is.
The notion of "racism" is a weapon used against Whites by agents seeking to destabilize White nations. It is a vague/empty/nothing term, ready to be applied in any situation to instill shame in oneself, through the denigration of one's people. It's propaganda. It is successful propaganda. And we are trying to rid ourselves from it.
Through this inflicted propaganda, we have destroyed our history, taken down our heroes, and disparaged and trampled on the memories of our fore-bearers. We have done this ourselves, to our own being, because of fear of being racist, and lack of racial pride. Generosity, kindness, and heroism beyond any in the world, has not been enough to rid Whitekind of the shame of their "privilege". The atrocity of murder is a worse sin, when committed by a White person against a member of another race. Call it out, complain, mention it, or even "have it in your thoughts" when doing something else, and anything you do is forever marred by the stain of race "hate". If your White, of course.
All of it because of the propaganda of racism.
Racism is the whip and chains of our occupation, in the West, which is leading to our downfall.
And it only exists because we believe it.
They are lies. And they are empty.
I'm am proud to see this truth. I'm proud to be back, loving my people. And I'm proud to take pride in who I am, heritage and all.
I truly hope you take pride in your race one day too, and that you might consider these arguments in favor of it.
16642633? ago
First off, your post really got me thinking to simplify my explanation as much as possible for a better foundation of what I believe so thanks for that.
Simply put, I find it destructive to collectivize "for" or "against" physical attributes. I think you picked up on this then wanted me to see the broader picture which I can appreciate but race carries the connotation of skin color. There are better words to associate with pride (if we must) such as cultural, ethnic, heritage, nationality, etc.
I love everything about myself and the life I lived to get to where I am today and I am grateful for everything that had to happen for me to be born. I respect traditions that are passed down and I evaluate which ones I appreciate most as well as incorporate other cultures'.
I'm not sold on the history of racism in the context given but I'm familiar with similar topics with that origination and intent.
I'll say this. Racism sucks. Overthinking it sucks. Overclassifying it sucks. Grouping people into these categories sucks because it pins them against each other. This is why collectivism based on physical attributes is a horrible idea. I can see how and why we'd be baited into it because we would love to preserve our heritage and culture, even nationality. However, assuming race is the same thing without recognizing the dire consequences of swearing allegiance to the skin color will become even more destructive via coup or false flags. There will be no escape from association. Furthermore, there's no point swearing allegiance to the color of your skin. It changes in the sun.
P.S. that last paragraph was just shooting from the hip because I've crafted the others above it over the course of hours with great comtemplation of your post with colleagues walking up and down my cube row. Don't take any offense to it.
16654699? ago
I admit to some difficulty about knowing what best to respond to. But I appreciate the effort of carrying out a conversation, so I will do my best.
Initially, I would take issue with your insistence in the association of race, with skin color. Race, more properly, is to be understood as a much greater concept.
If we are to divide the human species into its constituent groupings, race would be the first large set of groups we make. Within races we might further down find ethnic groups. And within these, smaller groups we might call nations. Further down we might speak of villages, or enclaves, etc.
These groups developed naturally, on their own, through thousands of years of divergent evolution, which provided them with differing traits, among them skin color. Besides skin color, however, this isolated development had an impact on nearly every other human trait, whether physical, or mental, or emotional. Not enough time passed for these groups to have diverged too much though (they are still part of the same species), but it would be wrong to say they only have skin color as a difference. They have different mental capacities, behavioral proclivities, and internal makeup. They can be identified by their test scores, by their cultural facets, by the diseases they are susceptible to, and even by their fossilized remains.
So when we speak about race, we are not merely referring to some superficial, arbitrary distinction. Is is a reflection upon the path our ancestors took, through their history, up until the point we arrive at ourselves; how that path was not the only one taken by the many human groups; and that one is different from the others.
Nations, in this context, for example, are better understood as a group of people within a race that developed in isolation from other groups, and incurred differences associated with the land to which their generations were bred (think, Cherokee nation). Today, this concept has been degraded to a political entity, rather than biological, in the case of White Nations.
If race were just something arbitrary, I would agree "collectivizing" in its support would be "destructive", or at least unproductive. However, it is worth pointing out that people have collectivized under ideological banners throughout all of human history. Maybe you're a "capitalist", or an "individualist"; or maybe even a "communist". Maybe you're a "Christian", or a "Catholic"; or increasingly, these days, an "Atheist". Whatever these positions entail, and with whichever good the reasons they may have to do so, people group up (collectivize...) under these labels, even though the don't need to do so (...arbitrarily). We know they don't actually need to collectivize, because they often change their minds, and along with them, their affiliations.
But if we take race to be as I've defined it. You can't just choose not to be part of your race, anymore than you could choose not to be part of your species. So it isn't a matter of affiliation. Your bond is biological, and immutable. You are that which your race is.
Now, if some nefarious entity wished to alter this bond of race, in order to profit from its dissolution, or gain power in the turmoil, they would have to use highly sophisticated and pervasive propaganda. With enough coverage that it could change the perception of the majority of people as to what constitutes reality.
It turns out, that in modern times, this isn't so difficult. We often forget how powerful something like Television is, when it comes to altering our reality. Today, in Western countries, mass media is controlled by people with an Anti-White agenda. So is print media; so are the school systems; the universities; the entertainment industry; the churches.
While they can't truly ever break the bond we have to our race, they can distort our reality. They can have us believe races don't exist; or that they don't matter; or that it is evil to think of race (they push these messages only on Whites, in White nations). All the while, they push the "positives" of multiculturalism, and diversity; promote and force mass immigration schemes to White countries; and incentivize the furthering of minority populations, within White lands.
The confluence of differing racial groups occupying the same political space, inevitably leads to a battle of interests, and a fight among naturally (immutably) distinct groups.
These White nations, which have developed for thousands of years, and came to spread and conquer many new lands, have been infiltrated. And instead of using guns, our enemies are using psychology to have us destroy ourselves, and discard our heritage. And it has been working.
We forget who we are at our peril, and we can only fight back, once we recognize the truth of our natural bonds.
Human flourishing, for all races, can only occur in a state where independent homogeneous nations can be allowed to freely develop unperturbed and unburdened with each other.
16778896? ago
Work's been busy. To respond:
I'm not denying the natural progression and existence of the race classification nor its usefulness but to swear allegiance to it is a different story. This is where we differ.
Our society is completely entrenched when correlating race with skin color. There's no escaping it. To deny that it is one of the first things that comes to mind for 90% of Americans would be almost ridiculous to believe.
Let's take your natural race progression example. White man and black man may have been under developed or developed differently at one time. Perhaps the white man was more developed. So the white man and black man weren't able to communicate or rationalize the same goals. They went their different ways. Fine.
However, that natural progression is more aligned with culture than it is skin color. Sure, the different ethnicities were conflicting with one another but that wasn't because of their skin color. The skin color was an attribute that helped everyone associate with one another. Their clashing ideas was a matter of culture.
This is the point. America is a melting pot, there's no denying this. I'm not pro-immigration and in fact I think we should stop taking in any immigrants until we solve the homeless problem. However, to pride ourselves on race while in this racially charged time only separates us more. Our society has, for the most part, gotten along and had an American/western culture to it. Whites, African Americans, Asians, Hispanics can all work together. Sure we may have pockets of poverty, gangs, etc. but I'm not talking about those. CULTURE should be our only concern of preservation. Preserving RACE is purely a defense mechanism triggered by anti-Zionists (intelligent people aware of their agenda) and those ignorant of the consequences. Since the Zionists want a mixed slave race, our natural position is to refuse the order of the Zionist. However, we do not rationally consider the consequences of promoting racial pride and separation. It is proven to degenerate America. If we're living in a different country where there are no mixed races and it's purely white, sure... go ahead and preserve that lifestyle to refute the inevitable political struggle. That is not my battle. My battle is America. We aren't going to deport non-white citizens.
Promoting pockets of racial pride is certainly not the answer, this will be a war zone by the time its done and that'll happen if us white people start encouraging more events like Charlottesville (before the false flag psyop). If you look into the truth of what happened at Charlottesville, you'll find that your solution will lead to more pride events like that which WILL and HAVE BEEN PROVEN to have false flag psyops to make the movement look bad. You're essentially creating a perfect false flag opportunity for the enemy with literally nothing to gain. In the end, the movement will get hijacked and everyone associated will have their legacy tarnished for generations. It's so easy to see...
I believe we're at the point of where we will need to agree to disagree but I encourage you to look into Charlottesville... how the woman that died was a different woman than the official story presented and she died from a heart attack (own mother said so), and how the truth tried to get out on the so-called free-speech platform Gab.ai then its registrar threatened 24h to take it down unless they suppressed evidence contradicting the official narrative... you'll see exactly how just the media alone can shape the narrative to destroy an entire movement. KK|< had its roots taken from under it and there was no going back. Dav1d Duk3 is a perfect example of a tarnished legacy destroyed forever. Hijacked.
Give consideration to how racial (instead of culture) pride has no benefit yet risks everything. One simple hijack = game over.
16784673? ago
You are a well meaning person and I appreciate you taking the time to expound on and clarify your views. I will endeavor to clarify my own.
I am aware of the Charlottesville events, and I agree with your conclusion that given the state of White people in America, there are large risks to espousing racial pride, as long as you're White. While I see this as a sad situation, that Whites can't feel pride in their race within their own country, I agree that the state of their gaslighting makes it too volatile for anyone to dare say the taboo thing. Let's remember that the reason the Charlottesville event was so demonized, is because the Cabal, and Global interests want to maintain their campaign against White America. The event in Charlottesville sought to protest the taking down of a Robert E. Lee statue. Along with immigration to reduce White American numbers, they want to erase American History.
I suppose I would insist that this is a terrible state of affairs and that we must do what we can, talking to each other to rid ourselves of this self-defeating mindset.
I believe this is proper given what I take to be my own understanding of human nature, as it differs from your own.
I would suggest to you, to clarify the issue more definitively, that what races are, is an arrangement of diverging paths in the lineage of different human groups given their geographical isolation. These changes are marked by variances in DNA. Today, after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, and the piling accumulation of different gene sequences, we find the existence of different human races, whose DNA is different from each other. Part of this DNA accounts for their different skin color. But that is the least of it. Other bits of DNA account for differences in much more important traits: like intelligence. Still other parts of our DNA are reflected in the way in which we form our societies, the languages we create, and the culture we come to produce. The gap between race and culture is not as it seems, and wherever you find people of one particular race in enough numbers to cal themselves a community, you will come to see the makings of a culture akin to their natural ways. So it is that blacks in Africa, America, Brazil, and Haiti express many of the same cultural traits. Similarly, Whites in South Africa, Argentina, and Sweden adopt similar customs, and organize their societies with the same instinctive tendencies. A very obvious example is the great amount of Chinese communities in nearly every developed country which are but a slice of China outside of Asia.
So it is clear to me that it is simply a mistake to think of race as something as inconsequential and superficial as skin color. Of course you can tell someone's race by their skin color, usually, but race is much more than this. And the numbers bare this out.
Take IQ, for example. IQ has been studied for over a hundred years now, in practically every country on earth, and the results have been ever consistent. Asians come out on top; Whites come second; and Blacks come last, when it comes to average IQ scores. Could you find a Black person smarter and a Japanese person? Of course. But randomly take a hundred of each, and the results will be replicated yet again.
It just so happens IQ is a very important trait. By the time the Europeans had figured out how to circumnavigate the Globe, in sub-Saharan Africa, there was no written language, wheel, or multi-story dwelling. Were there smart Blacks then, as smart as today? Sure. But the Black race doesn't produce high IQ people in enough numbers to manage the building of as high degree of civilization as either Europeans or Asians. It didn't then, and it still doesn't today.
And IQ isn't the only thing determined by DNA. Asians are by all accounts smarter than Whites, but something in the White makeup allows for philosophical thinking, and a type of creative expression that is lacking in the Asian brain. Blacks are seemingly unparalleled in athleticism, especially in matters of speed. These are all products of our DNA, and mark the differences between our races.
If we realize that we can expect, not only a different appearance from members of a different race, but also a different behavior on average, then we can understand why in places like America, where there are large populations of several races, their achievements seem to be so different. Why are blacks poorer? Ultimately, because their Black. Asians happen to be richer than Whites in America. And that's probably because their Asian. The violent crime race in America is often touted as a way to try and curtail gun ownership. But if we only take into account White violent crime, America is no different than any other European country, where guns are banned. As a matter of fact, if we take into consideration only Black crime, America would line up with other African countries in violent crime statistics.
These are the facts of life and how reality works, and when we understand it and accept it our experience of it becomes comprehensible, and everything fits into place.
American Whites, as well as other Whites around the world, have been victims, however, of a campaign of Cultural Marxism, where they try to blame the natural differences in achievement between Blacks and Whites on White Racism towards Blacks. Before this campaign the concept of racism as an injury from one group to another didn't exist. It is a form of propaganda used by the Cabal to induce guilt in Whites, and outrage in Blacks.
The ultimate point of having White pride is to break free of this spell, do away with it's influence, and accept reality. That way we can take away this weapon of the Cabal over our minds.
I would advocate we don't cower away from this effort, in fear of being attacked with this very weapon, because until we are willing to face the possible backlash, we will not come to disarm them. Let's remember that this weapon of theirs only works when we turn on each other. When we shun each other without hearing each other out.
I believe we can do better and we have been taking steps forward of late.
I will add that simply because races are different. Some smarter, some dumber. Some faster some slower. This does not mean that we ought to hate them, of course.
Ideally we would seek to preserve our differences, even when that means some might have cleverer countries than others, and that the Black countries will win all the Track medals in the Olympics.
Our natural state is to be with our own nations (races) in our own lands (countries), and this would be the best hope for our mutual flourishing. This is after all, how countries formed in the first place.
I don't however, advocate for the expulsion of citizens from their adopted lands. In places where the minority populations are small, like in Hungary or Japan, the minorities will get absorbed, or otherwise be forced to toe the majority line. In places like the US, where the minority populations are so large, there will linger a lasting tension, which might at least be ameliorated if we properly understand the actual effects of race on our behavior as groups and recognize these effects in our disparate outcomes as sectors of the population. If given true freedom of association (without relocation, busing, housing, quotas, etc) we might see these groups self segregating, as they had been doing before the advent of the Cultural Marxist campaign. And that might actually be best for all.
I hope you take this explanation on my part as well meaning, and you see where someone with my views is approaching the issue. I hope you also would consider the inherent truths of my position, as I claim them, and look into them further.
We deserve better than to be tricked and alienated from ourselves, and our biggest source of meaning: our blood, both past, and future.
16866459? ago
I appreciate the conversation but I don't think there's any moving the goalpost for either of us. I'm not for racial pride since race carries the heavy connotation of skin color. There are better words to use.
Inconsequential is poorly used here because current events reflect the opposite. We're living in an era where race/skin color is politicized so heavily that it's detrimental to say 'all lives matter' rather than 'black lives matter.'
I acknowledge the differences in race and the stereotypes of their wholeness but I reject your conclusions on how/why non-whites are the way they are... and this warrants a different in-depth conversation that I won't indulge. Simply stated, correlation <> causation.
White Pride won't break free of any spell, it will encourage it. You will feel as though you're breaking free from their agenda then when you're swallowed up by the echo chamber you'll have no way out. Further division is inevitable, I'm not sure how you cannot foresee this. Your Utopian belief of this strategy will be way off mark when implemented because there will be no authority figure to respect. The only authority figure for this movement is Richard Spencer and he doesn't have a solid plan at all. I've heard him talk through it many times. He's more interested in more appearances and getting the word out than having an effective strategy. This movement has no leader and it will get hijacked.
Self-segregation is key but the question is why. I want to leave society but it has nothing to do with the color of my skin, it has to do with values. It is my belief that an honest movement to segregate with prosperity must address values and nothing else. You believe racial pride groups do this, I do not.
Mark my words, if White Pride catches on in America, an event (false flag or not, doesn't matter) will tarnish its reputation and those associated... forever. It's a disorganized solution that sets up the perfect storm for the enemy.
16642348? ago
Very well stated
16639378? ago
Cool, so cancel Black History Month?
16639418? ago
Absolutely.
16639357? ago
This was an attempt to hijack/derail. That being said:
Humans are tribal by design, and tribalism is another side of the same coin as racism. Nothing wrong with this reality unless you ignore it. No one is asking you to preserve your race beyond means necessary, rather that you not turn a blind eye to threats against your race. This is not a call to action for revolution, but and advisory to be vigilant and SMART about the current state of affairs. By smart, I mean non violent, unless you are in imminent danger with no other means.
16639521? ago
I agree with this. I tossed in the mixed slave race JWO piece to acknowledge I'm aware of (((their))) plan. I'm simply against shifting toward racial pride as the bastion of preservation.
16642266? ago
Agreed. We need to shift our pride in skin color to one of culture. Out cultural pride should be the bastion preservation. After all that is how we are defined.
16639087? ago
With "fellow white people" like you who needs enemies?
16639221? ago
Care to elaborate? Are you mad that I enjoy Dav1d Duk3's political commentary without subscribing to white pride?
16639346? ago
You will live to see the result of ignoring that different cultures have different values, and that these values are fundamentally incompatible with each other in many cases.
Your call against collectivism is only heeded by white people. Other races are just laughing at you for being so stupid as to willingly destroy your own countries. Your idealism doesn't matter because nobody else is playing by those rules. Third worlders from Somalia don't care about morality and ethics and they don't have any respect for your culture.
You will live to see the naivety of your insulated and sheltered opinion come to fruition.
16639979? ago
Wrong. I'm aware of the culture clashing ideologies as can be seen throughout my responses in this thread and by acknowledging the mixed slave race desire of the JWO. The problem is CULTURE, not RACE. That's the entire point of my objection.
I reject the notion that we preserve America by collectivizing under White Pride. You'd get infiltrated and false flagged so hard and fast your head would spin. Your name would be contaminated for the rest of your life by having the association. Don't believe me? That's what happened with Dav1d Duk3 after the KK|< was hijacked.
Idealism is not my focus. My focus is to bring awareness of toxic collectivism like racial pride so like-minded people on Voat don't go down the same roads I've gone down before, getting swallowed up by the echo chamber.
These words strung together make you seem intelligent but I'm lost. What opinion of mine will come to fruition?
16640187? ago
Culture is inextricably linked to race. People identify their culture on their race. If you allow other races to mongrelize your own the result will be the death of your people. The American of life will end.
Immigrants illegal and otherwise vote 90+% Democrat. They vote for open borders and welfare programs for themselves. These immigrants are overwhelmingly non white.
If you don't take pride in preserving your race nobody else will.
Collectivism is not toxic. It is necessary to preserve your own existence. The NWO media told you it was toxic. When their legitimacy is destroyed there will be no one to call it toxic.
16640681? ago
Wrong. Correlation <> Causation. You think black Americans identify with their African culture, half naked clothing, drums, and multicolored hats for their rituals?
I don't take pride in preserving my race but I will defend the honor of truth and persecuted individuals because it's the right thing to do. You won't see me joining white pride groups, white preservation however... sure.
Collectivism is largely toxic by today's standards and sure we're meant to be tribal in ways but subscribing to racial pride groups is toxic to me. Racial pride = racist. You can steer an argument to say it's for preservation purposes all you want but that's not called pride. That's called preservation. Pride infers superiority. There's a reason it's one of the seven deadly sins...
16641145? ago
Not always, but sometimes they do. It took hundreds of years to get to that point. Black Americans are the integral exception to the rule of the white supermajority in the USA, because of that whole slavery debacle perpetrated by the NWO. However in many places they still shame outgroup for "acting white" and as a group they still commit massively more crime than any other group in the USA. Still I would not deny that they are an integral part of America. In many ways what makes America America as much as whites.
Is it just the word "pride" you have a problem with? Pride = supremacy but 14 words are ok?
Not toxic for Chinese though is it? Not toxic for Japanese though is it? Not toxic for Indians though is it? Or any other group except whites? Weird huh?
So what do you call the organized effort for white collectivist preservation? If not racial pride? Is it literally just a marketing issue to you? Seems petty
16643026? ago
An exception to the rule means the rule is not correct. I don't want to turn this post into a hate-bash against the scientific community but this is exactly what they do. They create a rule that works 'for now' then when it's disproven it goes away as if it never existed.
America isn't the only exception, there's many black Germans that align themselves with German culture over African.
Cultures can and do exist with other races, it's the mass migration of conflicting ideologies that causes the problem. Half our country is a bunch of white libtards and I dislike engaging with them more than any other libtard. They're myopic virtue signaling SJWs and if this made up 50% of our country (probably more like 40%), our culture would be screwed and that's with minimal invasion of Islam. Frankfurt School would've been successful.
Actually "AzN PRiDe" was my first encounter recognizing that racial pride was an issue when I played Starcraft in 2000. So yes, racial pride is toxic for all.
You saved the best for last. I'd prefer "white preservation" over "white pride" and it may seem like marketing but the consequences otherwise are dire. Aside from the inevitable socio-developmental toxicity, if you align with "white pride" with good intentions to save the white population, all it'll take is one false flag or infiltrated member to tarnish everyone associated for the rest of their lives. See Dav1d Duk3.
Also, I mentioned in a few other posts that race has a direct correlation to skin color. I'm not a fan of pride itself but if you need to be proud of something choose ethnicity, heritage, or nationality -- not race. Skin color can change in the Sun. Why does a color deserve your allegiance?
16643838? ago
Do you know what a supermajority is? I never said that America is a white Ethnostate. America is a country with a white supermajority. The other population consisting the USA is black Americans.
There's really not very many, not anywhere close to 13% of population. There's fewer than 1 million black Germans in a country of 80+ million. What I am trying to express is a little bit larger conceptually than navel gazing over your personal experience with Starcraft.
The Chinese people, in China, are not ashamed of being a collectively Chinese country. There is nobody shaming the Chinese people for not bringing in more immigrants from Africa. The Japanese people, in Japan, are not being shamed for being a collectivist ethnostate, which by all standards they are. The Japanese have always been more ethnically and racially homogenous than America, or nearly any other country. Nobody is shaming them in the media for doing this and they have no reason to feel ashamed. It's literally not a problem. But for you, it's a problem if white people have even the protection of their own country against outsiders, which is patently ridiculous.
Why do you keep bringing up David Duke? The KKK was a Democrat organization that has always been patently racist. It wasn't just suddenly racist when the Feds coopted it. It was always blatantly racist. This is about the protection of white people. Ethnicity, heritage, nationality and race are all linked together. A race of people hails from a homeland where they all share a culture and racial characteristics. This isn't that hard to understand. Race is more than skin color. There is a reason that genetic differences exist between different races. It's just a fact. All people are not genetically the same. Preserving your genetics is not wrong. I am not admonishing the Chinese or Japanese for preserving their race or culture. Only saying that it is not wrong for whites to do the same.
16777919? ago
Huh? I'm not pro-immigration by any means. We have homeless people that we need a solution for before even considering bringing more people into our country. You're inventing an argument I don't have, stop strawmanning.
KK|< was a civil rights movement that was infiltrated by the IC to create the narrative as we know it today. Look into it.
I'm not pro-immigration (homeless solution has priority) but we aren't going to force non-white immigrants from America. Stop living in this fantasy. We are a melting pot whether you like it or not and if you're suggesting a non-white cleanse of America, just say it. Otherwise, start following and supporting Richard Spencer's ideology. Perhaps you'll recognize how far you're driven away from your own beliefs based on your opposition pushing you there.
16781864? ago
Not with that attitude!
Richard Spencer is a MOSS BOY! KKK is a pseudo Masonic creation!!! Two wrongs do not make a right!!!
16638917? ago
Yep, you are a Qtard.
16639382? ago
Sheer brilliance
16638805? ago
This. Why it's always shilled here and those who point it out are attacked and buried.
16638102? ago
It's about ideology. And I'm for americans. Border jumpers are not americans. They're burglars.
16638652? ago
Agreed.
16638046? ago
It's absolutely different. You can like who you are and your racial heritage without hating other people.
No, if you judge people based on the color of their skin and not their individual characteristics, you're a racist. Being proud of your heritage does not make you a racist. How in the world do you come to these conclusions?
Being proud of your heritage doesn't mean you think you're better than other races, it just means you are proud of your heritage.
16638238? ago
See other post as you left out context and strawmanned me too.
P.S. I see your response loves referencing heritage which I never once mentioned.
16638379? ago
I don't think you quite understand what that means...
16638866? ago
I'm not sure if I didn't read fully or if you edited when I responded with strawman but... to properly respond:
This is where this goes into semantics. "who you are" is something I'd challenge. You'd probably say that our ancestors did x,y,z and we should be proud of it and we are who we are because of them. This is horrible logic. This is the same mentality that enslaves us to white guilt. We cannot have it both ways. You are NOT who you are because of your ancestors, you were born because of your ancestors and certain DNA has you behave and look certain ways but YOUR PERSON IS NOT DEFINED by ancestors. You MAKE CHOICES to DEFINE yourself.
Enough with the collectivism please, it's so toxic.
16639038? ago
You are splitting hairs. You are deconstructing posts, making your own conclusions then arguing against a literal strawman after accusing others of doing the same.
This is an actual strawman. You inferred a conclusion that wasn't presented and then argued against it.
I don't know if I've ever seen someone so obviously oblivious to their own hypocrisy.. This proof you are literally retarded. Seriously, get the fuck out of this discussion. You aren't even capable of contributing
16639337? ago
Strawmanning wouldn't suggest with the "probably," it would dictate an argument.
I intentionally put that forward to speed up the process of you defining what you meant by "who you are" -- if I'm wrong on this please correct me. You seem to be defined by your ancestors.
16639441? ago
That's called strawman you dumb fuck
16640465? ago
I did not intend to misrepresent your argument. I even asked you to please correct me. I see you folded then doubled down on it. Sorry to see you go so soon, I was looking forward to learning how you feel you are defined. It seems you had enough of the cognitive dissonance hitting your poor lil brain so you couldn't effectively proceed in the intellectual discussion. Travel with hard hats, friend.
16640647? ago
You did engage in strawman and you are unwilling to acknowledge it which means you are pridefully disingenuous, facetiously proceeding as if you founded a discussion on a legitimate premise and therefore aren't worth talking to. You are a charlatan and a hack, and not worth wasting time in discussion with because you will only do the same thing again. I have no interest in a discussion with someone who is willfully disingenuous.
16640782? ago
I get it, you folded. Hard hat begone.
16641197? ago
No, I called you out for not arguing in good faith. I'm not wasting time explaining myself to someone who is not going to discuss in good faith.
16642745? ago
hard hat begone
16638363? ago
Your race is your heritage. This is splitting hairs aka pilpul.
16638918? ago
It makes no logical sense to be proud to have blue eyes. My blue eyes don't define me. If they define you, you've lost individual thought.
16639060? ago
When did I ever say anything about blue eyes defining me? Get the fuck out of here
16639248? ago
And there it is. Replace 'blue eyes' with 'white skin' and you've lost your entire argument. Sad to see you go so soon...
16639432? ago
You are literally arguing against a strawman
16640382? ago
I used it as an example and you fail to see any correlation. God help common core
16637975? ago
Dude, this post does NOT in anyway suggest that it is about white supremacy. Having white pride is no difference than having Asian, Black, Indian, etc etc Pride. What we really have to do is really understand that white people are attacked and that soon enough may be extinguished due to the left's policy of division and hate.
16640159? ago
They're looking for "race traitors" clearly in line with a supremacy movement. How many people didn't read to the end? At least 300+
16642548? ago
Can I get your wife's number?
16640421? ago
If you think not hating yourself for being white is racist, keep sucking that bull; maybe you'll find some enlightenment as you choke.
16644897? ago
I don't think not hating yourself for being white is racist. However saying that you're searching for "race traitors" (as stated in title of this post) is racist. It's a bait and switch. Put a ton of good points at the beginning but just a drop of fatal poison at the end.
16638208? ago
Actually the post does as it mentions pride. I agree 100% with your last sentence but this isn't going to force me into white pride. It's going to force me to broadcast that truth while sh1tting on the concept of white guilt.
16637974? ago
That and karma farming. Might as well setup a sign at a grocery store checkout saying “Donate $1 to support this pro life organization and if you don’t then we know you murder babies and possibly eat them”. Oh and the organization would be anonymous, so it could be a pro life org or it could really be planned parenthood, the risks of anonymity. The fact this made front page shows just how gullible people still are.
16638223? ago
Yes, even us 'awakened' people...
16637813? ago
Pride is different than hatred. I hope you don't have to believe they're the same to feel ethical. I would call that a blue pill. Just be honest with yourself. It's ok to believe pride and hate are different. It's correct in fact.
16638979? ago
Isn't pride a sin, period?
16639325? ago
Yeah maybe. My point is pride and hate are different. Usually a lot different. Our culture tries to conflate the terms which I like to call a blue pill. This turns off the brain because hate is off limits. Voat is here to free your mind. We can't do that if you keep taking the pride is hate blue pill. Language can and does control thought.
16637933? ago
You're leaving out context then strawmanning me. I'm not sure if you intended to do that or not but let me break it down for you.
Pride and Hate are different sides of the spectrum. When having PRIDE in skin color and when having HATE in skin color, they're effectively amounting to the same thing: racial preference, superiority, inferiority, etc.
It would be similar to having pride of eye color. BLUE EYES MATTER.
This has nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with preventing the toxic collectivism that'll result from the ideological trap.
16642565? ago
The opposite of pride is shame or disgust.
16642678? ago
I never said they were direct opposites.
16642759? ago
Only 2 ENDS of a spectrum. I guess that's my confusion.
16643498? ago
With tons of variability in between. Semantics.
16643556? ago
A bunch of room in which to build wack arguments. 🤣
16777957? ago
Whatever helps you sleep at night
16638220? ago
They're still not the same thing. Loving something isn't hating everything else. Hating something is significantly more malicious than loving something or having pride in something.
The opposite of pride would be shame or embarassment, but it feels like you're putting it on the love-hate scale and equating not loving with hating.
I don't think I'm strawmanning you. I think you're blue pilled and it's preventing you from thinking clearly.
In some instances pride and hate can have the same effect such as if I hire a nanny the same race as me even though the nanny I interviewed of a different race seemed a bit better. I think you mean something along these lines, but that is more accurately described as discriminating based on racial preference. It's separate from love hate pride or embarassment. It's in-group preference - a much more interesting and honest debate topic.
16638596? ago
You're leaving out context once again so I won't respond to that portion.
re: nanny example- Racial Pride is a form of discrimination...