Dear Putt,
I'm know I'm probably not your favourite goat, but I don't take it personally. The anon psyop against me ~6 days ago may or may not have been correct in naming me one of the key people to whom you were addressing with the comments in your sticky, but I'll assume at the very least I wasn't absent from the list.
I like you either way, Putt, and honestly cannot thank you enough for providing Voat to us for as long as you have; hell, I wouldn't blame you if you crashed the whole thing right now and moved on with your life. You're a good dude for what you've done already, and it sucks to think that I've (probably) given you headaches and work you didn't deserve.
I know it's going to sound/look like I'm doing this as some form of mockery or with some undertone of derision, and I can't really seem to find a way to avoid appearing that way, despite not actually meaning it; hopefully this disclaimer will help you not take it that way.
I've been wracking my brain for the past week or so, in an attempt to understand exactly what it is you don't want us to do to newcomers. I've come up with a few possibilities, and would like clarification:
1) Don't direct them to the colloquially-known Voat introduction sticky that outlines the general trends and ideas of Voat.
2) Don't be racist in front of them.
3) Don't name the Jew.
4) Don't downvote them for asking for upvotes.
5) Don't speak out against their moderators' deletions and bannings.
6) Don't downvote their crappy/degenerate/etc. submissions.
7) Don't post/comment on their subs/content.
8) Don't link them to redpills, or try to redpill them.
9) Don't be honest with them when they admit something about themselves personally that I find disgusting/degenerate/etc.
I can't think of anything else that I do, or that anyone else does, and I cannot think of anything else that people have actually complained about, either here or the other site, after some group gets repelled. We're "Nazis" and "hateful" and "racist" is what's written over there; "4chan turned up to 11" was one of my personal favourites.
I'm more than happy to have some kind of gentleman's agreement NOT to do whichever of these you think is the problem for some period of time you decide. It's your house, and if you perceive that I'm proverbially shitting on your carpet, I'd rather you pointed me in the direction of the loo.
Thanks again, Putt, for everything you do for this website. I hope it gets easier and more financially viable, if that is, indeed, your goal.
-C
@Puttitout
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lion_rampant ago
You just downvoated my post to Introductions without reading it and left a snarky comment.
Crensch ago
https://voat.co/v/introductions/2416399
It's /v/introductions, not tell us your fucking life's story and expect us to waste our time reading it. You're like the creep that walks up to strangers and starts talking about your life and expects people to want to be around you.
lion_rampant ago
Considering the critique that went into what I posted, I figured it would be a good introduction. Sets my position for the debate to follow.
Crensch ago
I don't really think it sets you up for much of anything.
Also, I edited my comment right after submitting it; apologies for the forum faux-pas, but there was just too much more wrong with your introduction for me to let it go at that.
lion_rampant ago
If you can't see how you are rude to new users and make this place uninviting, then maybe you just have a personality disorder.
Dudicles ago
It's rather interesting that you talk about melting a snowflake in your introduction, and then start whining about someone being "mean."
You then resort to personal insults (which despite being ever so mean, Crensch did not do), which is an enlightening touch on you as a person considering you think Crensch is rude and mean, and you supposedly want this place to be inviting.
12123532? ago
Precisely this.
lion_rampant ago
I melted a snowflake with academic argument not by being rude. I made a point of being like a dove, even.
All I'm saying is there is something to the way he treats newcomers. And he has a hard time seeing it. I don't care, myself. I'm not whining. I'm just participating in the discussion that he started.
Dudicles ago
Fair enough.
You're kind of right, but at the same time, I'd rather see counteracting viewpoints rather than seeing him silenced. It's also not that he can't see it, but that he doesn't care. Which, honestly, isn't necessarily a bad trait. At least you know where he stands and can ignore or engage appropriately.
freshmeat ago
It's not about being mean, it's about Crensch having an overall negative impact on this website, especially considering new users who introduce themselves are met with one of the most toxic SRS/SBBH users on the website aside from beatle and expert.
@lion_rampant is a perfect example of why @PuttItOut should remove SBBH from positions of influence on the site and crack down on their vote manipulation and brigading/witch-hunts
Crensch ago
You use the word "toxic" like the leftists do.
Prove that I'm SRS or SBBH. You make the accusation, you provide the proof.
freshmeat ago
and you dont like it when your tactics are used against you, do you?
Crensch ago
Except that's not my tactic at all, and I provide evidence to support my claim; something you don't do.
freshmeat ago
Your actions are what define you. Your constant projection and harassment is just a self-defense mechanism to cover your obvious shill behavior.
Crensch ago
Lots of meaningless bullshit character attacks. Keep at it, Moshe.
Dudicles ago
I actually rarely see Crensch. Perhaps a bigger problem is that no one really counteracts him. In @lion_rampant 's intro post, no one else posted anything. I'd argue the more negative impact is that only Crensch posted, so the newcomer doesn't get to see that there are other people and opinions here.
I'm sure you know, but Putt is part of the SBBH crew, which is why all of them are basically admin-lite's. It's not going to change as long as Putt is running things.
Crensch ago
I appreciate your response to the newbie faggot above. Given the votes here, (I'll never believe them legitimate,) it's surprising that anyone decided to comment.
Since you seem to be both observant and not overtly hostile to me like some others, could you please humor me and expand upon this:
I keep seeing attacks on SBBH by the freshmeats/9-11s and rpv people, but I never see any justification for any of it, and certainly no previous claims or evidence of putt being one. - whatever it means to be SBBH, that is.
Dudicles ago
I've tried to distance myself from them and that drama as much as possible. Back before they fractured and some went back to reddit for a couple of months and then returned, when Mick was (maybe he still is) their great leader, they seemed okay, in my opinoin. When they returned, they (by they, I mean the regular users who post in SBBH and the subsidiary verses) basically took on the same tactics as SRS of reddit. Perhaps they were always like this and I just didn't really figure it out, who knows?
Before Atko left, Puttitout was a regular poster within the SBBH and subsidiary verses, and (as he still does occasionally) inside-joked amicably with them all over Voat. They are also the ones who visibly help the most with Voat development, giving them inside access to the ins and outs of Voat.
SBBH most certainly upvoat brigade themselves, and very probably downvoat brigade certain users or types of users. I'm not up on alts, so I can't even begin to name them, though I'm not blind enough to think they don't have alts.
In my opinion, SBBH users represent the same threat to actual freedom of choice/speech on Voat that SRS (successfully) did on reddit. SRS were friends of the admins, and in some cases, the admins themselves. They used to claim they were just "shitposters," which SBBH used to claim at one time, but really helped the admins gain mod control over pretty much all of the main subreddits. These groups simply do not want people to thrive who aren't subjected to a type of hivemind set of rules (whether spoken or unspoken) which inherently censor anything anti-whatever they want to be the norm.
Whether or not you're part of that group, I honestly haven't really attempted to figure out. I usually don't go through people's post history, unless I am sure they posted something I want to look at and failed to save a link to.
Crensch ago
I lied. I made a comment when I was pinged here.
Crensch ago
I'm pretty good at detecting bullshit, and I didn't notice anything. Then again, I get accused of being SBBH despite having it blocked since the Mick days.
I should unblock SBBH, I guess.
Well, on that sub I'd kinda expect the upvotes to flow for stupid shit no matter what. One of the reasons I blocked it early on. I've no doubt they'll target users for no reason at all for downvotes - hell, they ban users for no reason at all, too.
The users accused of being SBBH by the freshmeats/9-11s all appear to be mains, and tend to defend their claims or state their position and why whenever I encounter them. Is their fuckery contained to that and other shitposting subverses? (i have a few blocked)
All right. Haven't heard this from someone that otherwise made a reasonable post before, so I'll keep an eye out.
I recall the general narrative of the rEddit ones - had no idea the same thing appeared to be happening here.
Seems a lot of the users accused of being SBBH I find to be respectable outside of that subverse, so if that includes me, fine. I don't believe I've made even a comment in that sub, though, so I guess it's where you draw the line.
The inclusion of /v/TraditionalWives in the SBBH list kinda makes the whole thing laughable to me, but I'll keep an eye out on fuckery like I always do.
heygeorge ago
Shitposting is serious business.
Crensch ago
Unblocked SBBH - still see fuck-all wrong with what's going on.
Another possible redpill turns out to be fake.
heygeorge ago
Fake is an appropriate word choice.
freshmeat ago
You got your head on a swivel
Dudicles ago
What do you mean?
freshmeat ago
you are 100% accurate with your comment, and your doubts in it are more than substantiated but it's good to remain ambivalent
Dudicles ago
And my doubts are basically only doubts because I haven't seen legitimate proof (doesn't mean it's not there, just that I haven't personally seen it).
I like to think I've been relatively observant toward certain entities and trends, but I try to reserve judgment until I see enough of a pattern.
I've seen enough of a pattern with SBBH to know what their game is; I just don't know all of the "who's" involved, and ultimately, with Putt on their side, I don't care to invest enough effort into doing anything but commenting now and then when asked or if I'm trying to make someone else a bit more informed as to the state of things.
freshmeat ago
I agree entirely, but I still think Putt wants growth and he knows that getting rid of them is the only way it's going to work. His hesitation is alarming but I still have a tiny sliver of optimism with him.