5 days later... i keep reading this over and over again... and it's just...
doesn't make sense!
ninja css edit
point a gun to my face
you did exactly that
and here's what gets me
you overstepped your authority
but atko...
you had failed in your responsibility to notify users of changes to how they can access/use voat... even if temporary
you do it even for things like this: atko announces subverse registration off for two hours remember? a couple hours subverse registration went down, announcement! but when the whole way we can access the data and our own data on voat changes fundamentally, and no announcement for a month? then more things get lopped off - all subs!! hot and new! past page 19. no announcement! now voat user registration is going down? no announcement.
do you get it yet?
your communication with the userbase has failed. failed
and users like myself, and @thc attempted to pick up the slack and notify users.
then you shadowballed @innocentbystander for having his say all over the sub because you pulled an ACTUAL ninja move by without warning notification nor discussion with @thc nor the community silently removing @thc. and then telling us the next day you just "went to bed." how ninja.
you have one job: run voat. you aren't doing it because you aren't doing announcements on stuff you used to announce. unless you want to announce that the amount and type of announcements is going to continue to stay drastically reduced to the point of being considered near-no communication.
TL:DR: because regular users picked up your slack doesn't mean they overstepped their authority, and you ought re-mod them both.
I think this whole thing could have been avoided with a little communication. It sucks it came to this. The in-fighting is lame.
I still contend the bots/shills are a huge problem, if not Voat's biggest problem right now, and mod spats should be on the back burner while that gets addressed. I was just stunned that Atko would be so 'trigger-happy' to respond to this whole v/videos issue so quickly and vehemently when we never see him use that passion to stand up to the shills/bots.
At that point it was 8am in Sweden. I guess that anything is possible, but the most likely explanation was that they hadn't turned on their computer yet.
As your typical ‘silent majority’ type (when it comes to voting for President or just voating), I usually read these posts involving internal spats for amusement, and oftentimes a bit of bemusement. Your response is so non-typical for you @Atko, I feel compelled to break my silence. It looks like you are having a spez-like moment for what you did with @THC, which is entirely uncharacteristic and confusing.
I do not understand why you would pick a fight with someone who is willingly giving up his free time to volunteer to mod a sub. Your public response indicates that you didn’t even warn him. That’s a pretty harsh way of dealing with a volunteer. If you did warn him, thank you for your fairness (just know it’s something the rest of us didn’t see or know about).
When you publicly responded, you used hyperbolic language like “point a gun to my face”. Really? C’mon, man. Don’t be so dramatic. He did no such thing and there is no reason to exaggerate this.
Yes, what THC did was not allowed, but you all’s public handling of it was shitty and unprofessional. I’m sure there is a lot of background that has happened that the rest of us voaters don’t know about, but it is your job to keep us informed. When you don’t – this is what happens. A shit show starring you and your mods.
In light of the clear bot/shill problem Voat has been experiencing since after the US election/rise of pizzagate, it surprises me that you would be so swift to action in regard to THC but give us radio silence on what you’re doing, if anything, to combat these paid-bots/shills. Seems like a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. So go ahead and chop down THC or any other mods, but just know – the rest of the forest is on fire and you may want to do something about its burning.
We would never have booted another mod, who hadn't broken any rules, without consulting the community.
If you're cool with that kind of moderation, that's your right. But you're being a bit of a hypocrite by not holding them to the same standard.
No warning. No rules actually broken.
But kevdude-approved administration anyway?
Who are you? What have you done with the real kevdude?
Is he locked in a basement somewhere?
what you're actually doing: defending dictator sjw admin tactics
i don't owe you anything
-atko
yes i know this.
the issue TO ME isn't the removal.
it's the lack of any conversation with thc and the admins
lack of any communication with the community and the admins
the straight up dictator action of removing without saying anything/without any conversation is the problem
what you think i'm doing:
defending mods
what i'm actually doing: calling bullshit on a dirty underhanded manipulative move by our fake-admins and the fact that the cancer mod cyna was bitching "requesting" him to remove it FUCKING SECONDS before he was removed.
lol
"css infractions" or some shit atko said
my fucking sides.
like when they said removing everyone's access to all users' comment histories past page 19 was to protect from a ddos that is no longer happening but we still have no access. LAWL
keep being spoonfed lies from your glorious leader kim jong atko.
So the system subs are just ordinary subs now?
That's not what you've said in past.
'The system subs belong to the community' is what I've always felt.
It's what you and many others have expressed.
I know. Ultimately this is his site, and he gets to do anything he wants.
I'm just expressing my opinion.
It is still the same as it has been since the day I got here. My history, or what's left of it, and /v/videosModTalk, are evidence of that.
You though.. you're in new territory.
Well, I would do what you did if I had reason to believe my actual identity or location were known. Was that the case for you, or did some random guy say these things?
So how would you feel if it was a user that got banned by a mod for the same reason?
Feel the same? Then you're not a typical goat. Most goats don't like power-mods that use their power in a heavy handed way without any discussion.
Feel differently? Then you're a hypocrite.
When @kevdude made a discussion post in /v/videos that we (the mods at the time) did not like, we didn't remove it, or remove kevdude.
We stickied the post to get more discussion and find out what the community thinks.
I do not agree with, or support heavy-handed unilateral actions, that come with no explanation.
Many here thought this was going to be a place of free speech and limited power from above.
That seems to be changing.
Being demoded for an off-topic post, with no warning, is a severe overreaction. The community would never allow a mod to get away with something like that. Are the expectations lower for the admins?
Care to address why @Cynabuns is making "respectful requests" that must be obeyed in subs where @Cynabuns is not any level of mod at all?
If a mod of a system sub does something shitty then it's not unreasonable for the userbase to ask them to stop. It's also not unreasonable for the admins to step in and sort things out. There is no reason to assume these two things are necessarily connected.
The tone of the comment was anything but a user asking something. It was:
@THC - this subverse is not for your personal crusade nor is this a video. I respectfully request that you unsticky and take down your post from this default subverse. There are many other ways to get your message out but this is not one of them. Thank you.
The level of condescension in that comment just made me absolutely certain that the person who made that comment is up to no good.
Cyn was giving that arrogant self-centered jerk a message. They (mods of /v/videos) have been turning a blind eye on voat's rules for too long. It was not about censorship, just spam. Check their histories, you'll see it.
I think the real question is this- Were THC's actions over the line, considering /v/videos is a system sub. I would say they were. Were the admins in communication with him about this issue? I would say no, and this is unacceptable. Atko should have requested the post be destickied, rather than demodding. And finally, most importantly, Would atko's actions be the same if a different, random user other than Cynabuns were the one bringing the issue to his attention, to which I say, yes, I have faith they would have done the same if it were say first_post_king, or any of the other spamfighters and prolific users of the site. Were it a pleb like me, however, or someone they have had past disagreement with, like sanegoatswear, then I have questions.
Who said they must be obeyed? Again, there is no evidence that Cynabuns asked Atko to remove THC. Atko said himself he asked for the removal. This witchhunt against Cynabuns is fucking ridiculous. You people are way too touchy.
So, instead of adressing his concerns, or talking to him, or warning him, you just removed him with no discussion?
Which posted rule did he, or I, break?
I get it, you're the admin. You can do what you want.
There's already a site that runs like that though.
Are you going to start using admin powers against anyone that has something to say, that you don't like?
Edit:
he abused his position
Care to define that? All I saw him do was make an arguably off-topic post.
When I was a mod, we wouldn't ban a user for that. But it is worthy of an admin removing a mod?
Really?
His ninja stylesheet editing
You're going to need to explain that. The only new css was added by me, after you had him removed.
I would like to add that this is a severely disrespectful and demotivating way to deal with loyal volunteers putting time and effort into improving voat.
Not half baked, I've been dealing with his hate mail and threats for over 9 months at cheers, constantly defending against his multitudes of alternate accounts, I know his M/O. inside out, either you are very naive or just a really nice person who has been sucked into his manipulation.
InnocentBystander always was a Drama Queen, still is with his "I'm a Texan gunna shoot your ass mentality" and his 20 or more alts. Give your head a shake.
Correct, and he is still manipulating as much as he can to stir the pot, @THC another innocentBystander alt? Or are you that weak to be pushed into this bullshit?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
5 days later... i keep reading this over and over again... and it's just...
doesn't make sense!
and here's what gets me
but atko...
you had failed in your responsibility to notify users of changes to how they can access/use voat... even if temporary
you do it even for things like this: atko announces subverse registration off for two hours remember? a couple hours subverse registration went down, announcement! but when the whole way we can access the data and our own data on voat changes fundamentally, and no announcement for a month? then more things get lopped off - all subs!! hot and new! past page 19. no announcement! now voat user registration is going down? no announcement.
do you get it yet?
your communication with the userbase has failed. failed
and users like myself, and @thc attempted to pick up the slack and notify users.
then you shadowballed @innocentbystander for having his say all over the sub because you pulled an ACTUAL ninja move by without warning notification nor discussion with @thc nor the community silently removing @thc. and then telling us the next day you just "went to bed." how ninja.
you have one job: run voat. you aren't doing it because you aren't doing announcements on stuff you used to announce. unless you want to announce that the amount and type of announcements is going to continue to stay drastically reduced to the point of being considered near-no communication.
TL:DR: because regular users picked up your slack doesn't mean they overstepped their authority, and you ought re-mod them both.
wahala ago
Thanks. I appreciate the info.
I think this whole thing could have been avoided with a little communication. It sucks it came to this. The in-fighting is lame.
I still contend the bots/shills are a huge problem, if not Voat's biggest problem right now, and mod spats should be on the back burner while that gets addressed. I was just stunned that Atko would be so 'trigger-happy' to respond to this whole v/videos issue so quickly and vehemently when we never see him use that passion to stand up to the shills/bots.
wahala ago
Yeah, I don't know what an L1 is so...no. I used the term 'spez-like' because of the hyperbole used by Atko in the comment I was responding to.
Broc_Lia ago
14 hours ago?
At that point it was 8am in Sweden. I guess that anything is possible, but the most likely explanation was that they hadn't turned on their computer yet.
Broc_Lia ago
I'm pretty sure when you posted that it was around 3am in GMT and 4am in sweden. I think most people are quiet around that time ;p
Broc_Lia ago
While the witchhunt was ridiculous, freedom of speech is more important.
wahala ago
As your typical ‘silent majority’ type (when it comes to voting for President or just voating), I usually read these posts involving internal spats for amusement, and oftentimes a bit of bemusement. Your response is so non-typical for you @Atko, I feel compelled to break my silence. It looks like you are having a spez-like moment for what you did with @THC, which is entirely uncharacteristic and confusing.
I do not understand why you would pick a fight with someone who is willingly giving up his free time to volunteer to mod a sub. Your public response indicates that you didn’t even warn him. That’s a pretty harsh way of dealing with a volunteer. If you did warn him, thank you for your fairness (just know it’s something the rest of us didn’t see or know about).
When you publicly responded, you used hyperbolic language like “point a gun to my face”. Really? C’mon, man. Don’t be so dramatic. He did no such thing and there is no reason to exaggerate this.
Yes, what THC did was not allowed, but you all’s public handling of it was shitty and unprofessional. I’m sure there is a lot of background that has happened that the rest of us voaters don’t know about, but it is your job to keep us informed. When you don’t – this is what happens. A shit show starring you and your mods.
In light of the clear bot/shill problem Voat has been experiencing since after the US election/rise of pizzagate, it surprises me that you would be so swift to action in regard to THC but give us radio silence on what you’re doing, if anything, to combat these paid-bots/shills. Seems like a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. So go ahead and chop down THC or any other mods, but just know – the rest of the forest is on fire and you may want to do something about its burning.
ExpertShitposter ago
https://voat.co/v/whatever/1481985
InnocentBystander ago
We would never have booted another mod, who hadn't broken any rules, without consulting the community.
If you're cool with that kind of moderation, that's your right. But you're being a bit of a hypocrite by not holding them to the same standard.
No warning. No rules actually broken.
But kevdude-approved administration anyway?
Who are you? What have you done with the real kevdude?
Is he locked in a basement somewhere?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
what you think you're doing: defending atko
what you're actually doing: defending dictator sjw admin tactics
-atko
yes i know this.
the issue TO ME isn't the removal.
it's the lack of any conversation with thc and the admins
lack of any communication with the community and the admins
the straight up dictator action of removing without saying anything/without any conversation is the problem
what you think i'm doing:
what i'm actually doing: calling bullshit on a dirty underhanded manipulative move by our fake-admins and the fact that the cancer mod cyna was bitching "requesting" him to remove it FUCKING SECONDS before he was removed.
lol
"css infractions" or some shit atko said
my fucking sides.
like when they said removing everyone's access to all users' comment histories past page 19 was to protect from a ddos that is no longer happening but we still have no access. LAWL
keep being spoonfed lies from your glorious leader kim jong atko.
InnocentBystander ago
So the system subs are just ordinary subs now?
That's not what you've said in past.
'The system subs belong to the community' is what I've always felt.
It's what you and many others have expressed.
I know. Ultimately this is his site, and he gets to do anything he wants.
I'm just expressing my opinion.
It is still the same as it has been since the day I got here. My history, or what's left of it, and /v/videosModTalk, are evidence of that.
You though.. you're in new territory.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
so if i'm being harassed by a user on voat, which is a crime in the u.s.,
what do i do?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
so the fuck what nigger?
THEN THE ADMINS COME IN AND SAY HAY THIS ISN'T WHAT WE WANT
AND HE WOULD GO OK
AND MAKE A VIDEO
AND REPOST IT
AND IT'D BE ALLRIGHT
OR
HE COULD SAY SAY FUCK OFF AND THEY'D REMOVE IT AND OR HIM
THERE WAS NO CONVERSATION
NO CARE AT ALL AS TO WHAT THE USERBASE THINKS
THESE ARE NOT OUR ADMINS, THESE ARE CIA PLANTS
SaneGoatiSwear ago
so you're cool with the admins just "deciding" who mods and doesn't?
fuck that.
Broc_Lia ago
It's a system sub, the owners of those subs are the admins themselves. Not to mention that it's their webside lol.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
WHEN THE FUCK DID YOU JUST GROW ELITE CANCER REDDIT MOD STATUS AND GO AROUND DELETING MODS?
WHAT HAPPENED TO
"WE WILL DISCUSS THINGS WITH THE COMMUNITY FIRST"
!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
so atko's really a fucking sjw power mod, not a benevolent dictator of the free speech?
what a fucking monday.
InnocentBystander ago
There is no answer there. Just him taking credit for the removal.
What abuse?
What is 'ninja stylesheet editing' supposed to mean? He didn't do the css. I did after they removed him.
No warnings beforehand.
No asking him or I to stop.
First action is removals.
Now imagine a Mod did that.
Why do you feel differently about the admins? Shouldn't they be held to the same standard?
HST ago
Talking pretty tough for a guy who just said he can't defend his loved ones.
HST ago
You take shit here way too seriously. Also you're a pussy. Please CC the FBI on any following responses you may have to me.
HST ago
Well, I would do what you did if I had reason to believe my actual identity or location were known. Was that the case for you, or did some random guy say these things?
HST ago
It's almost like you're begging for it.
InnocentBystander ago
It was a site-wide issue, not a personal one.
So how would you feel if it was a user that got banned by a mod for the same reason?
Feel the same? Then you're not a typical goat. Most goats don't like power-mods that use their power in a heavy handed way without any discussion.
Feel differently? Then you're a hypocrite.
When @kevdude made a discussion post in /v/videos that we (the mods at the time) did not like, we didn't remove it, or remove kevdude.
We stickied the post to get more discussion and find out what the community thinks.
I do not agree with, or support heavy-handed unilateral actions, that come with no explanation.
Many here thought this was going to be a place of free speech and limited power from above.
That seems to be changing.
Being demoded for an off-topic post, with no warning, is a severe overreaction. The community would never allow a mod to get away with something like that. Are the expectations lower for the admins?
urafuckingidiot ago
This, play stupid games win stupid prizes. No bullshit allowed.
ExpertShitposter ago
Lots of larping happening on Voat.
heili ago
Care to address why @Cynabuns is making "respectful requests" that must be obeyed in subs where @Cynabuns is not any level of mod at all?
Broc_Lia ago
If a mod of a system sub does something shitty then it's not unreasonable for the userbase to ask them to stop. It's also not unreasonable for the admins to step in and sort things out. There is no reason to assume these two things are necessarily connected.
heili ago
The tone of the comment was anything but a user asking something. It was:
The level of condescension in that comment just made me absolutely certain that the person who made that comment is up to no good.
Broc_Lia ago
That's an extremely creative reading of it. It just looks to me like they're pissed off with him (I would be too) but still trying to be polite.
AOU ago
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/1399296
THC is a jerk who insults people who are not thinking like him.
Broc_Lia ago
I meant cynabuns was still being polite.
AOU ago
Cyn was giving that arrogant self-centered jerk a message. They (mods of /v/videos) have been turning a blind eye on voat's rules for too long. It was not about censorship, just spam. Check their histories, you'll see it.
Donbuster ago
I think the real question is this- Were THC's actions over the line, considering /v/videos is a system sub. I would say they were. Were the admins in communication with him about this issue? I would say no, and this is unacceptable. Atko should have requested the post be destickied, rather than demodding. And finally, most importantly, Would atko's actions be the same if a different, random user other than Cynabuns were the one bringing the issue to his attention, to which I say, yes, I have faith they would have done the same if it were say first_post_king, or any of the other spamfighters and prolific users of the site. Were it a pleb like me, however, or someone they have had past disagreement with, like sanegoatswear, then I have questions.
BobBelcher ago
Who said they must be obeyed? Again, there is no evidence that Cynabuns asked Atko to remove THC. Atko said himself he asked for the removal. This witchhunt against Cynabuns is fucking ridiculous. You people are way too touchy.
DeltaBravoTango ago
I assume that "respectful request" meant "I'm going to try asking nicely before I just get you removed."
heili ago
Considering the timing there wasn't even a pretend at 'maybe you'll comply' either.
InnocentBystander ago
So, instead of adressing his concerns, or talking to him, or warning him, you just removed him with no discussion?
Which posted rule did he, or I, break?
I get it, you're the admin. You can do what you want.
There's already a site that runs like that though.
Are you going to start using admin powers against anyone that has something to say, that you don't like?
Edit:
Care to define that? All I saw him do was make an arguably off-topic post.
When I was a mod, we wouldn't ban a user for that. But it is worthy of an admin removing a mod?
Really?
You're going to need to explain that. The only new css was added by me, after you had him removed.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
IT'S NOT NICE WHEN YOU'RE ON THIS END, EH?
I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'VE SAID HERE
BUT I FUCKING REMEMBER YOUR PREVIOUS STANCES AGAINST ME SPEAKING UP FOR THE TRUTH ABOUT VOAT
NOW THEY'VE COME FOR YOU
AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO
BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T SPEAK UP AGAINST THE SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEN WE HAD A CHANCE
NOW IT'S TOO LATE
ENJOY YOUR REDDIT CANCER ADMINS ASSHOLE.
InnocentBystander ago
I'm sorry, can you speak up? I can't hear you.
Do you remember when you told me you loved me?
I do.
Why are break-ups always so hard. Can't we just be friends?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
WHY ARE YOU NOT DESIGNER OF THAT SUB ANYMORE?!
i am for the truth. if you are against it, you know where i stand.
Boukert ago
I agree full heartedly with above.
I would like to add that this is a severely disrespectful and demotivating way to deal with loyal volunteers putting time and effort into improving voat.
@atko @THC
protectdeeznuts ago
They are doing that now. They know Kevdude will tell everyone because he likes to talk a lot.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
after the fact.
protect the truth. fuck your nutty fallacies.
protectdeeznuts ago
Just remember a lot of the people speaking out against you are alts. I may be an alt but I'm just protecting my nuts!
ExpertShitposter ago
His nuts are innocent. I can vouch for them.
heygeorge ago
Holy shitposting, fagman, you're xbjx too! :D
ExpertShitposter ago
We all used to be amalek, now we are all beatlejuice, tomorow we will all be techius. Voat life is hard.
silversurfers ago
Or just a fucked up person's alter ego?
silversurfers ago
Then you are just naive.
silversurfers ago
Said by a true 'statesman'.
Disappointed ago
They've taken up to a day before announcing after removing mods before.
silversurfers ago
Not half baked, I've been dealing with his hate mail and threats for over 9 months at cheers, constantly defending against his multitudes of alternate accounts, I know his M/O. inside out, either you are very naive or just a really nice person who has been sucked into his manipulation.
silversurfers ago
It really is now.
silversurfers ago
You're just playing games here.
silversurfers ago
InnocentBystander always was a Drama Queen, still is with his "I'm a Texan gunna shoot your ass mentality" and his 20 or more alts. Give your head a shake.
BobBelcher ago
I can't speak to the CSS edit, but @innocentBystander says he stepped down himself, here and here.
InnocentBystander ago
I stepped down as a mod.
I did not step down as a designer. I was removed by the admins.
silversurfers ago
Correct, and he is still manipulating as much as he can to stir the pot, @THC another innocentBystander alt? Or are you that weak to be pushed into this bullshit?
Disappointed ago
You really think someone else has access? I doubt it.
Disappointed ago
What part of the CSS was changed do you remember?
ArcticDweller ago
@Atko can we have some clarification as to what is going on here? Who demodded @THC and why? A Thank You, kindly; in advance.