On Vote Mutability (voatdev)

submitted ago by PuttItOut

This is just a random idea that I wanted to get feedback on.

With Voat, one of the things we struggle with (on the backend) is the mutability of user votes (allowing a user to change previous votes on comments/submissions). When a user can change their vote (up to down or removing a previous vote) we can’t effectively deal with this data until it reaches the “archiving” phase, which is currently three months or 90 days.

If we can effectively “archive” user votes before this time we can do much more within the code base.

The idea is this:

User votes can not be changed after a 24-hour window (time period is variable, but shorter the better). This would mean that once a user has voted on a comment/submission, they are only free to change it within this window. After the 24 hours, it sticks and would be permanent.

What are the cons? How often would this be an issue? How often do you change a previous vote after 24 hours? Etc.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

This sticky will self-unsticky in a few hours.

LazyJello9 ago

No longer than 5 minutes. 24 hours is fine but it's not needed. The only time I change a vote is if I ccidentally click an arrow and even then it's a matter of seconds before I change it back.

What you really should be working on putt is ensuring that a blocked non system subverse stickies don't show.. I'm sick of seeing that stupid guitar shit every Friday..

CrudOMatic ago

Who needs more than 24 hours to be like "nah, bruh, I don't like that shit"?

TestForScience ago

24 hours is fine.
The only time I've ever changed a vote is when I accidentally hit it while scrolling on mobile, or after I get too excited about a post, upvote it before reading it, just to find out that the article linked is a total lie.

theoldones ago

i agree with this.

set it to the time limit, get what data you need.

349023095sdfl ago

Your comment /v/SoapboxBanhammer/3222796/18645009 has been deleted by: @gabara on: 5/16/2019 6:32:25 PM

Description given: Rule Violation in v/SoapboxBanhammer: Rule 0 - Did thing.

power mod

gabara ago

Ha ha!

349023095sdfl ago

alcoholics r us,

im dangerous mother fucker calm your ass down

Alcoholics_R_Us ago

You're just a deluded drunk. Go and have another, you know you want to.

freshmeat ago

Your comment /v/SoapboxBanhammer/3222796/18644791 has been deleted by: @gabara on: 5/16/2019 6:25:49 PM

Description given: Rule Violation in v/SoapboxBanhammer: Rule 0 - Did thing.

Original Comment SBBH spammed old voat chat, @engelberthumperdinck even did @Puttitout's job for him and made a fix for Beatle and experts spam. Looking back on it SBBH was desperate not to have any platform on Voat they cant abuse. Yall made it too annoying for Putt to deal with your minor bullshit that he just got rid of it entirely.

Discord may have homosexual furries running it but it works very well as long as you dont break ToS. It's still nice having a place to chat that you can't shit on.

Delete this one @gabara

349023095sdfl ago

gabara is deleting my comments too

@puttitout

349023095sdfl ago

fist

Womb_Raider ago

Oh, you're going to tell me what my name is? Be my guest, you try to tell everyone everything as is. Preacher kevin, must be catholic.

theoldones ago

i can do some extensive research on what your names means in the name of science lol

Womb_Raider ago

It's a pun based on a movie title. No, not a porn movie, like you losers would project.

theoldones ago

no, it's porn, from all the way back to 2003 in fact

https://www.xvideos.com/video2384957/womb_raider

ExpertShitposter ago

Well...i clicked ur link, and i actually believe @Womb_Raider because that's the lames porn flick ever. If someone wanted to name him self after a porn flick, he wouldn't use the lamest one ever.

Womb_Raider ago

And he wouldn't lie about it like a pussy either.

theoldones ago

it does however exist lol

Womb_Raider ago

You cannot tell me why I chose my username any more than I can tell you why you chose yours. Maybe you're old, maybe you like to prey on older but still illegal minors. Do you see how this game grows old? I've now called you a pedophile based on your name. Is that fun?

theoldones ago

OMEGAKEK

YoHomie ago

Do it. Everyone will survive.

cthulian_axioms ago

If the clock starts running from when the up/downvoat was cast (not when the comment or submission was made), I see no problem with it.

Womb_Raider ago

It's a reference to Tomb Raider. It's a joke. You don't have a sense of humor, kevin?

DeltaBravoTango ago

What advantage is there to shortening the time? 24 hours sounds like enough, but what extra things can you do in the code as a result?

Diogenes_The_Cynic ago

Only bots will want to change downvotes hours after the fact. Most people won't care that much.

psymin ago

Allow user vote deletion.

VIP740 ago

I schedule the 27th of every month to go change all my votes, but I guess I could always find another hobby.

tanukihat ago

I don't like this. I don't like that someone can edit their comment but my upvoat remains.

Nadeshda ago

This is a good point, maybe editing comments and deleting comments should also have a shelf life... @puttitout has this been mentioned? What are your thoughts and how does this faction into the code?

goatboy ago

DO IT FAGGOT!

Inaminit ago

I don't change voats often, but when I do it's usually right then, like 99.9% of the time.

insanitea ago

Reading through other ideas, I think the sanest approach would be an edit history, a 24-hour hard limit for vote changes, and a 90-day soft limit to vote.

Perhaps slightly bigger vote buttons would be a good idea if this is changed? Sometimes my cursor slips.

whisky_cat ago

I like it

GetWoke ago

I have fat fingers(not really) and very small phone(really) I may have to hit the vote botton several times to get the correct vote(a few min?) but after that almost never change my vote

Tallest_Skil ago

How about some other changes.

  1. Voting is not restricted to this “equal down to up” bullshit anymore. There is far more wrong in the world than right.
  2. Similarly, voting no longer has an effect on the voted’s ability to post.

I will expound if requested. At 275 posts in place already, there won’t be any requests. And the measures won’t be taken anyway.

majb ago

After reading this I have one major concern. What is the current length until the archiving phase? Is it three months or 90 days? There's a big difference that could change my thoughts on the matter.

PuttItOut ago

Should we start over? This sounds like too big of a situation to simply continue.

18629474? ago

24 hours seems enough time to revise the needless downvoats my baby likes to give out.

FIRST you need to fix the problem of voats not appearing stick.

PuttItOut ago

Yup, that's annoying.

SearchVoatBot ago

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lordv1ldemort ago

This is a great idea, because I was able to write an alliterative headline.

Crikes ago

I'd say within X hours of a vote, unless there was an edit, in which case it should allow for a vote change when discovered.

For example, if we all responded favorably to this, you archive our votes, but then edit then content to say something ridiculous like "cats > dogs", we should be able to give you the thumbs down.

ratsmack ago

I guess this will be incentive to not be an asshole, or that down vote will stick with for all eternity. :)

heygeorge ago

Dammit no you don’t. Well, you might.

Goathole ago

Putt, I need a "You are gassed" button. It would save me so much time. Just one of those I hate your guts you slimy lying scumbag buttons that makes the individual spontaneously combust.

Mcmurdo32 ago

I don't think I have ever changed a vote unless I hit the wrong bottom, in which case I changed it immediately.

Womb_Raider ago

24 hours? Make it two hours at most. Less exploitation possible.

SearchVoatBot ago

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Seventh_Jim ago

I can't see 24 hours being a problem.

DrSelfAppointed ago

I don't know that I have ever changed my vote after the first few minutes, and I have no Idea why anyone would even need 90 days to do that. Let alone 24 hours. Does someone wake up from a drunken night and realize they mistakenly up-voted a bunch of Q-trad BS and in a panic removes all the votes?

auto_turret ago

I've never had to go back and change a voat. I say what I mean and mean what I say.. err.. voat. That being said, I dont feel that feature is worth being a barrier to possibly more desirable ones.

anotherdamnartist ago

Honestly, you could probably even do an hour. 6 hours even seems excessive. Anything that makes running the site easier is definitely worth it.

theysayso ago

If I change a vote it is within 5 - 10 minutes. A 24 hour window is more than sufficient.

Rothbard_Block_Hoppe ago

cool idea

snafu ago

Probably a few minutes would be sufficient actually. I can't (and wouldn't) downvoat anything, but every time I've changed my vote it was because I accidentally clicked it in the first place lol

dp007since09 ago

The 24 hrs sounds reasonable.

finix_666 ago

This is a possible scenario:

User makes a post with a lot of stats. People upvote it because first few stats fit the knowledge they've gained and don't verify everything. 7hrs later, another user replies: "Stat #12,14,19..23,34 are clearly wrong and aren't even in the link provided". 24 hrs later, people who upvoted that comment see the reply, and want to downvote it. Can't downvote since comment ratings are locked. New users believe the comment and don't read the reply to it. Redpillers lose credibility.

finix_666 ago

This kind of false info spamming has already happened here before with HRCisDONE.

heygeorge ago

This sticky will self-unsticky in a few hours.

Careful, that’s how the beta codebase swallows them!

@DayOfThePillow and others have provided interesting context to editing vs. voting.

I can’t give you much of a meaningful response without a better understanding of specifically what this holds you back from further developing. So I’ll ask questions:

  • Why not 72 hours? Would 5 minutes be preferable? At what point do the timeframes really start to make a difference?

  • Would it be more useful development-wise to have the votes become immutable at a specific time (in batches) instead of a rolling 24 hour window?

  • Does a non-vote count as an immutable vote?

C_Score ago

Hey wtf is this i can't comment, capatcha takes 10min to complete, and it says i need upvotes to discuss. THIS PLACE IS A FUCKING ASSSSSSQ!!!!!! I would like to slap down the creator of this stupid idea!!! I'm holding back my swear words, this is seriously stupid! Can't comment on /DarkNetMarketsNO

You admins blocked it or what?

VoutGuy ago

Nooo..... When I find out about some fucker I want to dvote his entire history!

can’t effectively deal with this data

But really, I'm kind of suspicious about this need to fast archive...

Mr_Black- ago

24 hours seems almost too long, if it helps with post view-ability and vote count it should be lowered to about 12 hours or potentially even less.

user9713 ago

24 hours seems fine. I'm also glad to see that you're still working on Voat. I know it's not easy, considering you have real life, and we really appreciate the work you put in.

14WordsToFreedom ago

Just need long enough to correct fat finger votes. 24 hours should be plenty, seven days would be overkill, 90 days is totally unnecessary.

Durm ago

Its fine. Do it.

allogonist ago

I only change my vote if I upvote clickbait, and then after reading the actual content I realize I've been fooled. I don't need more than 1 hour of a window to change my votes. 10 minutes would probably be enough.

Thereunto ago

If we can effectively “archive” user votes before this time we can do much more within the code base.

You'll have to expand on this for us. What are the benefits of faster archiving for the code base? What's the issue with the current format?

docksofthebay ago

Once voted, done.... no changing. Period.

AO28-1 ago

Like several other goats, I've only ever changed a vote for clicking the wrong arrow, and that would have been immediately.

Nietzsche__ ago

The post should be immutable if votes are. 24 hours is too aggressive. 1 week?

Stop reducing functionality.

PuttItOut ago

You're going to hate our next feature release where we get rid of the comment section. ;)

thedirtypuma ago

I would do 72 hours or even a week to start off and see how it goes. Then just whittle it down until we find the right balance of user freedom and what's most efficient for voat.

ExpertShitposter ago

There is literally no real reason to change your vote except right away when you missclick. I bet the average user wouldn't even notice if the time frame was as low as 1h. So if this helps your code, do it.

ToOnMaN ago

How often do you change a previous vote after 24 hours?

Never.

drstrangegov ago

The only thing I'll say is many people seem to love up votes. Sometimes I go through my comments and upvote old comments. My friends get a big jump and it makes them happy. It doesn't take much time and it makes them happy so I figure why not, since nobody has told me why they are so obsessed with upvote anyway.

Sometimesineedhelp ago

What about when people drastically edit their comments after the fact? I think we've all been caught agreeing with some outrageous comments that were reasonable the day before - it might be nice if there was also a limit on edits to go hand in hand with this change maybe

KVD ago

Shouldn't the comment also be frozen then? Otherwise you'll have a bunch of idiots exploiting that for retarded reasons.

PuttItOut ago

How large of an issue is this though?

KVD ago

Anybody wanting to make voaters look bad would certainly try to exploit it. Make a good post, get a bunch of upvoat, then change it to some pro-pedophilia garbage. I mean, sadly you know somebody will do it.

watts2db ago

sounds reasonable to me as long as the ability to change a vote made in error exists for a reasonable period of time. I can't tell you how many times I mistakenly downvoated something I meant to upvoat

Caveman_in_a_suit ago

I'm old, and since 90% of everything is crap, I only allocate 10 minutes or less to the remainder

It's far more efficient

oligarchsalamander ago

Wouldn't this not help because regardless of when a user cannot change their vote, other users still can add new votes or change votes. The overall "score" of the contribution will still change all the way up to the archiving of the contribution. So, while I guess the problem is that I don't understand the technical hurdle you are trying to overcome that's my first thought.

Dsonophorus ago

Seems like 5-15 minutes is your typical window for people that make a mistake. There are some super gay things that could be done by shill-types that involve editing a post and changing votes. Prolly very rare and esoteric kind of abuse, but the short change window may nerf that as well.

fluhthreeex ago

Of all the things to focus on: bots, spammers, shills, a lack of features people have actually requested... this is a focus?

Salicaz ago

As long as a heavily upvoted "gas the kikes" isn't later edited to a now heavily upvoted "upvoat if you like to wank to kids" I'm fine with it.

Don't want some fag from Vice using it to smear us legit racists after all.

bisteot ago

Can you do an analisis of how big is the time window most users change their vote? I bet it is minutes.

I would do it like this: Time allowed to change the vote is the double that the time to edit a post.

PuttItOut ago

We allow editing of comments and text submissions until archive date. :(

Glory_Beckons ago

What is the technical challenge here? Why is "archiving the vote" required to "deal with it" and what exactly does that even mean?

There may be solutions that don't involve restrictions like that. It's not a typical restriction to have for a feature like this.

billyvvinz ago

I like to upvoat things as I read them, but there seems to be a 5 second delay on being able to voat? Maybe get rid of that for established users?

Thanks for all you do Putt.

Caveman_in_a_suit ago

Yeah, these days I just put videos on pause and speed read the transcripts. If I can't get the gist of something within a couple of minutes, then I skip to the bottom to read the summary conclusions. 10 minutes, tops.

maga1234 ago

I don't think I've ever changed a vote more than maybe 15 minutes later, so 24 hours is fine by me.

bdmthrfkr ago

If you want to make a decent change then make it so that I can edit a post for spelling errors without having to explain myself.

When I'm phonefagging I sometimes mash the wrong (button? key? bit of real estate on my screen?) 5 mins would be enough.

WhiteRonin ago

Might a good idea to expand this to all comments and posts to shorten those windows too. You have it set for 1 week don’t you?

con77 ago

If I accidentally vote up or down I change it immediately. I don't recall ever changing a vote later.

Jeww ago

Let’s face it. I didn’t read this.

Cynabuns ago

24 hours is enough for me

FuckYourSafespace ago

24 hours should be plenty, hell 1 hour would suit me just fine

VoatsNewfag ago

As far as I can tell after 24 hours submissions and their comment sections are already barren (except for a few people bitching with each other) and votes will no longer realistically affect their chances to get more or less views.

It might be different for people who don't browse v/all and are subscribed to niche subs, but I doubt it matters even then.

senpaithatignoresyou ago

I like it, we need to be putting more thought in our votes.

I have felt that the voting that reddit did stank of social engineering. They downvote wrong think, and they upvote only appropriate npc thoughts.

It's why i am against hiding downvoted comments and submissions.Everyone will say something that is unpopular, it happens. But just because it is unpopular does not mean it should be hidden.

Simonsaysgoat ago

You,dont really explain why this,is,an,issue. I,don't,put too much into the whole,voting,thing personally but I don't,see why it,matters

Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago

That's the whole point of asking, to see if anyone does have issues with it, and to find out what those issues are

Simonsaysgoat ago

But if we don't,know what the issue is in the first place, how can we make a decision either way? Why is this an issue? How does this get abused? What is the problem were trying,to fix? Its just random computer garble to those,of us that dont run sites, etc.

Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago

You don't need to understand the issue and technical computer garble. The only issue you need to worry about as a user is that you won't be able to change your vote after 24 hours of making it.

It's most likely just a performance upgrade for the site, and nothing to do with abuse or fixing a problem.

Simonsaysgoat ago

Ok, thats what I needed to understand. Thanks, friend.

PuttItOut ago

You're just going to have to trust me... It's makes things complicated and I'm not very smart.

Simonsaysgoat ago

"Your just going to have to trust me"... Did you really just say that? Lmfao, Putt do,you really think any,real goats,are just,gonna,go,along and trust anything? Lol not attacking, just being humorous. But seriously this is above my head and I'll use this site as,long as free speech,is upheld.

Battlefat ago

Sounds good, I’m not one to change my vote and if so only to correct an error immediately.

ardvarcus ago

One hour would be fine. When I change my vote, it is within a minute usually, but never more than three or four minutes.

carlip ago

Get rid of downvote meanie and we will have a workable idea.

also, looking at the @aged vs /v/gaming issue, can you make it so if a user repeated get downvoted into oblivion in the same sub, hour after hour, day after day, week after week... simply automatically ban them from the subverse for a duration, lets say 24 hours, then if the cycle repeats, 48, 96, 1 week, etc.? is this possible?

Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago

That would be way too easy to abuse. Noone should have to upvote stuff just to prevent randoms from getting autobanned by the bots

That's reddit tier levels of bullshit.

carlip ago

Not really. It could take weeks of dedication also you would weight the system based on the activity of the sub.

Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago

In your example of aged, the users who want him banned have already been campaigning for months already.

Weeks is nothing when it comes to being able to ban someone.

All that does is enable censorship, and fuck that shit off back to reddit

PuttItOut ago

We can explore this area but don't have code to implement such a feature at this time.

PuttItOut ago

We have stubbed in this logic already. It will be testable on the preview site when we open it back up.

Timmy2 ago

24 hours seems reasonable.

NihilisticClownFrog ago

24hr vote on post or comment then archived? I don't think that's a problem. Since I'm new, question: the anonymous subverses or comments must be saved by user to view again, correct or must the user scroll that verse to find a comment? Can you use the search feature for reviewing anonymous subverses? I was looking for one to show a friend and I had to dig a while. I'm subscribed to a few and the search feature did not help.

Conspirologist ago

This is useless. Make votes to be related only on subverses where voting occured. This is the logic way.

PuttItOut ago

Explain how you envision this working.

Conspirologist ago

It's as simple as it gets. The voting must be linked only to subverse where it occurs, this way we won't have upvotiong farming or downvoting brigades. This is how voting is supposed to work. Reddit did universal voting because they are interested only in blocking free speech.

PuttItOut ago

So basically dropping votes if the user isn't in the submission itself or arrived there by first going into the subverse?

Conspirologist ago

Anyway, if you are interested in making Voat perfect, let's make a thread about fixing the voting system. I will be glad to submit everything I can in order to better the voting system. It's a long discussion, we will need a separate thread to discuss all the fixes.

Conspirologist ago

Every community of subverse will decide how to vote about the poster. Right now it's impossible to understand where the votes come from. If somebody like apples and goes to the oranges subverse, he will be obviously downvoted. It doesn't mean he won't be useful in other communities.

version7 ago

sounds good to me.

Dismal_Swamp ago

We should have the right to abort full grown upvoats after 9 months. We will not go back. - Hillary Clinton

murface ago

I typically don't change my vote after the first hour, usually it's done under the further investigation of the content I've voted on. Archiving in to allow for flexibility seems like a good plan.

24 hours sounds plenty let's people evaluate what they are reading and formulate an opinion we'll.

Corpse_washer ago

24h is plenty fine. I change them many times, because i have big fingers and accidentally touch the downvote when i want to upvote.

Blood-is-Nature ago

Learn from natural law "all actions have consequences" You pressed the button, now you have to earn up to it.

xiego ago

I like 24 hours. Even 12 should be fine for most cases.

gabara ago

24 hours is more than enough. I'd be happy with 10 minutes.

PuttItOut ago

For you... I'll give you 30 seconds.

gabara ago

Thank you. I appreciate our time together. Regards, @heygeorge

knightwarrior41 ago

i have no problem with this idea

goatsandbros ago

Why?

PuttItOut ago

It's about the calculating of sums concerning votes in relation to never ending data. It's an issue of scale and performance. If data can change at any time, the calculations of sums can't be deterministic until what they are a summary of is also deterministic.

grandmacaesar ago

Does this archive have the votes attached to the user names? What if I upvote something on, say,v/fatpeoplehate, then some time in the future I can't get a job and support my family because I upvoted an anti-fatpeople meme. Could this be used as a way to curtail or stifle free speech?

PuttItOut ago

We have zero plans on ever allowing user vote information be public, but most surely the vote record itself is tied to the user.

The data crunching code doesn't care who voted and wouldn't use this information as far as I can envision.

ScottRockview ago

I'm fine with it. I've only ever upvoted things I like and only ever down voted trolls/spam.

ToFat2Fish ago

Fine by me in the 3.5 years I've been here I dont think I've ever changed a vote after 24hrs.

Killeratlarge ago

Con: I'm not coming back in 24hr to change my vote. Highly likely a fag would though.

Skins ago

"Hey, I'm not a good enough developer to make this work well. How about we reduce the feature set?"

PuttItOut ago

You're not wrong, but this has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with efficiency.

Skins ago

Well, let's try and move this from gathering feedback to a productive discussion.

The first question worth asking is "why can you not deal with the data until the archiving phase"?

The second is: what is it that you mean when you say "deal with" in terms of votes?

As a full-time software developer responsible for some extremely large projects, I'd like to say something more constructive, but there's very little here I can go on without knowing what your problem scenario really is.

PuttItOut ago

See if this reply answers those questions: https://voat.co/v/voatdev/3220801/18626157

cyclops1771 ago

24 hours seems to be perfect.

Usually when I change a voat its because my shitty lack of depth perception makes me miss the Up or Down voat button, and I have to fix it.

ForTheUltimate ago

I don't like this. I want to be able to edit comments and votes forever. You haven't mentioned any new ability we could gain besides ''deal with the data''.

PuttItOut ago

I also want a time machine.

recon_johnny ago

Why? Is this a pressing issue?

What are benefits to this, from your perspective (admin, non-user)? I don't see that listed.

PuttItOut ago

Entirely has to do with the complexities of the backend system. This change would allow us to develop certain features faster.

recon_johnny ago

Ok, fair enough. If it doesn't affect privacy issues, user data, etc; I'm all for what you suggest.

Is better to be nimble in today's environment.

ifuckdolphinseverday ago

The idea would create more accurate data and could lead to future spam/ bot control methods.

I don't see any serious consequences as content is slid fast enough that its not worth while to vote/change vote on old news in the first place. Would this have the added benefit of preventing mass censoring of previous submissions after the fact or do submissions go into an archived status prior to the 90 days anyway?

weredawg ago

It's usually within a minute or two, five at most, if I change my mind about a vote. Usually because I clicked the wrong button in the first place.

Le_Squish ago

I like it.

Like others I generally make corrections within a few minutes.

I do also agree with making edits expire as well.

DietCokehead1 ago

I agree edits should have a time window before expiring, but what should the time amount be? Because some people add an "Edit/Update" to stories the tell a few days after the original post.

Le_Squish ago

Fortunately one can make a new post and link to old post.

MadWorld ago

We could allow edits to the comments, after the voting window expired, provided that the original comments were retained. So that new edits/updates could be appended to the end of the original comments. This would preserve the integrity of the votes, w.r.t. the original comments.

AlphaOmega ago

To be frank, I don't really understand why this needs to be a big deal to begin with. Make the window 10 minutes. The kinds of people who come back to change a vote and care if they can't aren't the kind of people I'd worry about pleasing.

PuttItOut ago

I feel like you but always best to put ideas under the microscope

hollandkt ago

I like the 24 hour idea. I think you guys are on to something. 1 vote up here.

ilikeskittles ago

I don't think this is a problem at all. Do it. I occasionally click on the wrong button when voting as long as I can change it within a few minutes I don't see a problem. I have never gone back and changed a vote after a day.

Raxotic ago

Many times when Im tapping on my phone, I accidentally hit the down arrow instead of the up, and instantly correct it.

It would be nice if votes didn't register for ~30 seconds or something. Otherwise, I don't care about this functionality at all.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

I think people only actually change their vote probably once in a thousand times. This would have very little negative effect, and if you can do other things much better, go for it!

ArchmageMordenkainen ago

24 hours is more than reasonable, I see no issue with it.

jkasdfhk7732 ago

really if anything, is put a cooldown on the amount a person can be upvoated/downvoated

it would dramatically help

-dial

Darwinxmachina ago

I admire the desire to be thorough for the sake of metrics and data accuracy. And although I'm not a programmer and likely have little to contribute to this particular platform I would simply ask "what benefit and for whom, would this concern?" . A database manager and a quantitative analyst would likely have better input. Your average user would likely never notice this except by accident.

PuttItOut ago

The problem and hence the post is that this change would restrict users while benefitting the code. Since this change would reduce current user functionality, we want to get feedback.

Darwinxmachina ago

The philosophical consistency: Less regulation and more user decision power/ input. One of many reasons this forum is incomparable across the vast expanse of internet junk yards. Thank you for maintaining some integrity along a path least traveled by. And, a cursory breakdown for those of us less sophisticated in the realms of user platforms.

bdmthrfkr ago

I would say that 24h would be a minimum, oftentimes I may dv a comment only later to realize that I either misread it or to have it clarified later.

Since most of us aren't on here 24/7 people need some time to respond, the only thing I hate more than dv-ing good content (for whatever reason) are shills and pony posters.

irelandLost ago

If anyone is spending long periods of time, up to 24 hours, wrestling with their conscience over a vote that they cast on a comment on here then I feel the best thing we could all do is put that poor obsessive out of their misery.

irelandLost ago

Just to add, you’re doing God’s work Putt!

nothingoriginal ago

I would add the restriction that it also can't be in the top 20 pages or most viewed or something like that, to give people time to change a voat on a misleading or obfuscated story.

chaosamongstus ago

Sometimes I click the wrong arrow and want to change it back. If there is like a 5 second period before the 24 hour change goes into effect, then I’m ok with it

PuttItOut ago

You'd be allowed to change any votes within the 24 hour window. The 24 hour window would start when the first vote is recorded.

jkasdfhk7732 ago

its non issue putt, its a neat idea. but really like i said give it 10 days or 7 the same downvoating.....

really, fuck im going to piss off lots of people here. after 7 days lock out upvoating, a majority of manip happens after that

-dial

ArchmageMordenkainen ago

I think it's 24 hours after you vote, not 24 hours after the post is made. So you'd be fine.

OrdinaryFaggot ago

I've never felt like changing a vote after more than a minute or so. Usually it's an "oops, didn't mean to tap there" thing and I'll undo it within seconds (perhaps more than once).

Reading other comments, it seems like this would mostly be a concern for long-running posts that are edited such that votes from 1+ days ago may no longer be relevant. That's an interesting use case; at that point (older content) I'm guessing the vote changes are less meaningful for sorting, so maybe it's moot.

mrpepperfield ago

This is a solid idea.

This would be an issue only if some news story turns out to be bullshit a day or so after it comes out. But the new posts that would be calling out the bullshit would clear up the story anyways.

But the time period sounds about right. It keeps the people who will change old votes in a tougher spot for manipulation.

Dortex ago

In all my days here, I've only ever changed my vote once after 24 hours. If it makes the place run smoother, go ahead and lock in votes 10 minutes after, for all I care. I just need enough time to fix a fat finger vote.

theoldones ago

Dortex, i'm gatecrashing your comment to remind you've been asked nicely to stop being a dishonest shit. your repeated bullshit is inaccurate, slander and a manipulation of words. you're a lying snake.

here's the part you fucking ignore and omit from what i know you're about to say:

Dortex, i ask people to put their money where their mouth is. that test was failed, certain people WON'T put their money where their mouth is.

even other users notice you've been a fucking shit about this.

this reply from @TruthDefender blows your interpretation out of the water immediately, and mumbleberry doesn't like you.

Yeah, the linked comments don't prove @theoldones is a pedophile. If you click into them and look at the context, it's obvious theoldones is asking Decidueye to put his account where his mouth is. Dortex is trying to smear him for this. It's an intentionally dishonest trick, and for it to work relies on people either not clicking the links or only paying slight attention to the contents. That said, many will do one of those two and the smear will work on them. It's a skilled manipulation, I'll give it that much. I didn't actually realize how dishonest and manipulative Dortex was until seeing it for myself. @Mumbleberry did try to warn me, and I should have listened to him.

remember that time you defended a pedophile who posted a video of raping children? your defense and deflection on this was hilarious and the dumbest shit ever

you lead petty downvoting campaigns against users you argue with after they drop the issue.

in the future, please refrain from being a snake, okay?

FUCK__ISLAM ago

Other than correcting immediate mistakes, there's no reason to even allow changing the votes.

Dean_Wilhelm_Hawkins ago

Changing votes is a rare occurrence for most of us I'd bet. If it's not fought right away, it stays where it is.

Make it 2 hours and call it good

zyklon_b ago

trufe....

NiggerVirus ago

EAR FUCKIN

zyklon_b ago

JEWS DID 9/11

6cd6beb ago

lol you goofball this had me cracking up.

After scrolling through something like 8 replies that all say "yeah that's fine, 24 hours is reasonable", "Yeah sounds good to me", "Oh ok sure why not", "JEWS DID 9/11", "sure I only change votes within 5 minutes anyways"

zyklon_b ago

Thanks mein friend. my contribution to Voat is upvotes amd hilarity..

jkasdfhk7732 ago

its funny how i get banned 14 accounts for manipulation... yet he doesn't ask me. tsk @puttitout

jkasdfhk7732 ago

i heard jews killed jesus

we need a cooldown on jews

majb ago

Well, you certainly did not hear wrong.

zyklon_b ago

kill em all

zyklon_b ago

6 MILLION MORE

zyklon_b ago

more

jkshdfka78938 ago

the best of them all this little tune

https://youtu.be/tKlVYJTSzuU

take care

zyklon_b ago

cool

zyklon_b ago

keep em coming

zyklon_b ago

fuck doors

Adminstrater ago

I am sure that will be acceptable. As long as we can keep voting and commenting until 3 months are up and the whole post is archived.

TheSeer ago

Hell, it could get locked in after 2 hours. You might notice you hit down instead of up, due to a fat finger, that is about it.

critias ago

I don't think it will make much of an effect, especially in the long-run when more users and more posts and comments exist and people aren't going back to old material.

Papaganda ago

90 days is a huge amount of time. I think that the max amount of time should not exceed one week. As for the code base is this adjustment well worth the cost of changing a vote? Because many of us use Voat as a source of news, and although we try our best, sometimes things can be inaccurate and we adjust our votes accordingly. If we could know what would be gained from the change of the timeframe maybe many users would prefer it more.

PuttItOut ago

This is a technicality on the backend. If we can deal with data that can't be changed sooner than 90 days we have a smaller and more efficient window to work from. Right now, things get complicated dealing with calculations on data that can be modified.

SpreeFeech ago

I don't think I have ever wanted to change a vote after 24 hours. Even if I did I probably couldn't find the original post anyway. Keep up the good work.

jkasdfhk7732 ago

I really think it a non issue. I use to fuck with might doing this. I would DV him to shit then he bee all IM GETTING brigaded, and then he say fuck you cheese. Then I would reverse it

it was more of a gag imo, Ive done it to a few others in the past

but sometimes people change their mind, i know i have. if you archive it it... I would give it like 10 days or something, then lock her in stone. This would bring someone adequate time to refute.,

BushChuck ago

I am Jack's complete ambivalence.

zyklon_b ago

+1

TheBuddha ago

I see the last line. Sweet!

As for the rest, never. I never go back and change votes, unless I noticed I voted down by mistake while probably using a tablet.

cynicaloldfart ago

I did notice nobody bitched about the Mothers day sticky. LOL.

TheBuddha ago

I thought about it. It woulda been funny.

I didn't want to rain on their parade, even if it was funny. It's Mother's Day. You can't fuck with that day. I have some rules for myself!

SquarebobSpongebutt ago

24 hours should be fine. Across the road I used to upvote things as a sort of save them to read later and then remove my vote after I had read it (usually on mobile if it was long and I didn't want to mess with it right then). Don't do that here as it is easier to save and then unsave later instead.

2fast4u92 ago

Seems fine to me. Sometimes I Butterfinger the wrong button on mobile, but as long as I can change it immediately and then move along all is well.

Valensiakol ago

Sounds good to me. Dunno what tards are going back and changing their up/downvotes more than a day later anyway, as if it even matters that much.

mrpepperfield ago

There is a limit to downvoting, and people will try to keep certain topics low by voting on them. If they can change votes on old submissions it gives them another down vote to use on current topics.

OhRutherfordBehave ago

What's wrong with having a 3 month window to decide if you want to change your vote? I don't see the problem, in fact it's a good thing because it gives you time to think about it.

ISlooshyYou ago

I'm going to go ahead and upvoat this but in August I might change my mind.

OhRutherfordBehave ago

Is there something inherently wrong with changing your mind....?

VicariousJambi ago

I didn't know this. A lot of the time I switch around my votes after reading the comments or something like that. Finding out that a source was bullshit, op was a liar, me being a retard, that sort of thing.

dudelol ago

Do eetttt

SeanBox ago

I wanna be able to downvote my own posts too

DayOfThePillow ago

So long as people can't edit their comments after the same amount of time it makes sense, otherwise you could change a massively upvoated post to something else to give the false impression that was the popular opinion.

Mcmurdo32 ago

These are good points

think- ago

Also people shouldn't be able to edit comments after someone's replied otherwise the same thing happens.

I don't agree. I edit comments all the time after someone has replied, f.i. to add some links.

I think that very few people change their posts or comments with malicious intent.

andrew_jackson ago

No, this is stupid. If I drunkenly post a story, and then want to redact it later, then I want to redact it later. The goal of voat shouldn't become developing a system of record. This is a chat board.

DayOfThePillow ago

You should still be able to delete it, not saying anything against that.

markrod420 ago

This is a key point.

watts2db ago

great point

psimonster ago

All upvotes should get wiped on edit.

subscribetopewdiepie ago

People can do that now, no one is going to go back to check and see if the comment they voted on changed.

Futt ago

How about this: editing a comment will reset the vote counter?

Then again this can be abused to get rid of downvotes... Not sure. Maybe just reset the upvotes?

ARsandOutdoors ago

I don’t think that’s a good idea. I make grammatical corrections to my comments sometimes a couple hours later on my computer after replying while on mobile. Autocorrect has really convoluted some of my replies through my phones predictive text algorithm.

subscribetopewdiepie ago

I don't see it as a big enough issue to warrent that, if anything just put a note in stating the comment had been edited.

DayOfThePillow ago

Yeah but people using the search function could get misled about a subject if it's been changed after it's moved on from the front pages.

subscribetopewdiepie ago

The point is that the proposed change wouldn't create that issue because someone could do it now. Plus I'm not sure it is a big enough problem to be worth worrying about.

Obrez ago

This is already a problem, it's why posts give a little "edited" note like yours here has, essentially it's as solved as it needs to be, people should be able to figure that much out on their own.

0xFEEDFACE ago

How often would anyone notice something they upvoted got edited though? This would already be a pretty common problem.

That said, I think it does make sense to have a similar window for locking comments. The post will still be open, so either make a new comment or delete the old one.

Valensiakol ago

Maybe create an amending edit system, where you can't modify the original comment after the 24 hour period, but you can add on a new segment to your original comment that is clearly amended, if you need to correct a mistake or you changed your opinion or something.

insanitea ago

I can second the idea for an edit history. It seems like the simplest solution.

SIayfire122 ago

If possible, I'd allow you to strike through portions, or all of, the original comment. This allows you to strike out the wrong information while still allowing it to be readable.

BlackSheepBrouhaha ago

Or add a button next to Report that says (original) which allows us to see previous versions of the comment as collapsed replies to the comment.

Valensiakol ago

Yeah, that's more or less how it works for the Facebook version I mentioned. Probably the best way since it reduces clutter and allows for menial edits like spelling errors without making a big deal out of it.

DayOfThePillow ago

That sounds good, I've argued with people on here before and gone back to check on it later and they've changed what they've said and it then reads like I'm a moron talking shit. Not this account but it's happened.

ksjdfkas878345 ago

day of the pillow biter

Valensiakol ago

lmao case in point

DayOfThePillow ago

:)

CrudOMatic ago

I though Day of the Pillow was when boomers get smothered by their own pillow...

DayOfThePillow ago

It is I was just messing with the guy :)

SandHog ago

One downside is that someone could go back and edit their comment so that the voats would reflect the opposite of what the people voating on the comment intended. I would probably make it longer than a day. I'd suggest three days or something along those lines since the conversation will likely have moved on by that point.

pepe16 ago

This has little to do with vote mutability. Say someone changed a post after 10 days. It's long gone from the new queue, maybe it's in the top queue. Even if someone changes their comment, it's not like many people will notice this, go back, and change their vote. So, the issue has little to do with vote mutability.

DeliciousOnions ago

They're not the same issue but they're directly related, one causes the other to be worse.

digitalentity1497 ago

I like the idea. If adopted, be sure to list it in the rules. Someone will bitch about this.

PuttItOut ago

Someone will bitch about this.

Always

FullSemiAutomatic ago

Maybe reset the interval if the comment/post is edited?

speedisavirus ago

Problem is they might be deleting the vote history when they archive a post so they can't undo locking down votes.

facepaint ago

Interesting point. What if the submission or comment is edited? Perhaps comments & submissions should be fixed after a 24 hour period too.

facepaint ago

24 hours are fine. When I change a voat, it is usually within the first 5 minutes to an hour.

Sometimes a story doesn't match a headline. Sometimes a user clarifies their statement and I realize my initial assessment was wrong. 24 hours is more than enough time for 99.99% of these changes of decision to take place.

finix_666 ago

Read my comment. It's a scenario which has already happened here.

facepaint ago

Read & upvoated.

Nietzsche__ ago

LOL voat gets a full time developer and features are taken away.

What new features will this support? Are rise features for users or the honeypot keepers?

daserlkonig ago

Agreed 24 hours is more than enough.

IslamicStatePatriot ago

I agree but I also think we should still have the 90 days to vote. Sure lock it after 24 hour but I often find something old during a search that I (usually) want to upvote. Sucks when you can't and you've found a bit or info from 2 years ago that only has 2 or 3 votes, other people finding the same info might overlook something that shows no external recognition.

Nadeshda ago

This a would be a good reason/time to repost that comment as a submission.

GetWoke ago

Leave the ability to upvote for longer?

think- ago

I agree but I also think we should still have the 90 days to vote.

Agree.

Caveman_in_a_suit ago

Same here - a change only occurs within the first hour, if the story turns out to be bogus or if I've accidentally clicked too many times and up/down voated the wrong direction as a result

facepaint ago

Some videos are long. An hour or two. It may take time to digest the video to see if you might have knee jerked on an up/down voat.

Caveman_in_a_suit ago

I've never watched a video link from Voat longer than 10 minutes, though find your point valid

everlastingphelps ago

Ditto. I browse over a remote desktop, so sometimes I end up clicking several times just because I don't see that it "took." I can't recall ever changing a voat other than that.

Apexbreed ago

I'm fine with it. I either immediately change my vote, because it was an accidental, or I do within a few minutes as I realize the context of the post/comment.

PuttItOut ago

This is what I find myself doing as well.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

Haha, weird. I never thought of you giving uvs and dvs.

SIayfire122 ago

It'd be nice if we could remove downvotes though. If I go back to a comment section after that 24 hour mark, and realize I accidentally downvoted someone, I'd absolutely like to remove it.

ksjdfkas878345 ago

its pointless man, why even think of this? your site your rules

TheTrigger ago

It's better to crowd-source these things so glowniggers like yourself don't end up creating all sorts of loopholes to take advantage of, that's why.

doginventer ago

Same here. 24hr limit on changing vote & editing post seems best to me.

cynicaloldfart ago

Wait. This is about changing your vote, not edit post, correct? There's already a brief, 5 minutes I believe, to edit a post which I think is good (spelling/grammatical errors). If an edit is required for a post after that, it can be deleted and reposted with only the loss of magic internet points at stake.

MightoScrub ago

The question is how can this be exploited and to what gain? Which I have no idea about.

FullSemiAutomatic ago

As others have pointed out, a bad actor could attempt to build false consensus by editing a post/comment that had previously been received favorably to send a different message.

Itty-bitty_Tity-trap ago

How often do you check the posts you've upvoted after 24 hours?

That's why edits are timestamped

FullSemiAutomatic ago

Essentially never. I probably wouldn't be all that interested in being notified of edits either.

How about resetting up/downvoats upon edits?

PuttItOut ago

I don't see how it can be exploited but I've felt this way before... And was wrong.

Crensch ago

I don't see any cons.

People might not vote until later, maybe?

I can think of maybe 3 times when I was reading through my history thinking "Did I misclick that? Oh well, let me fix it". I think I'll live without being able to fix a mistake here and there.

Sburban_Shitposter ago

sure, most of the time i change a vote is just because i misclicked it.

ggolemg ago

24 hours from the initial per-user vote cast and not 24 hours since the post posted?

PuttItOut ago

Yes, time period would start from the point the vote was recorded on a user by user basis. Content would allow new votes up until the main archiving process kicks in.

Thisismyvoatusername ago

And just like that, my only question was asked and answered. As long as it doesn't affect how long people can vote on a post or comment (as opposed to changing a previous vote on that post or comment), this change sounds fine to me. The rare case where people really want to go back farther than that because of new information or something could be dealt with by them making a new post to get revised takes on it.

knickers ago

sounds good to me. is this a big issue?

grandmacaesar ago

I'm good with that. I can't think of a time when I felt it necessary to change an up or down after 24h.

FLNationalist ago

I like it now but I don’t know how I’ll feel about it tomorrow

WhatDaDuce ago

Good idea, 24 hours is good.

But what if further facts come out and opinions change?

BlackSheepBrouhaha ago

New discussion post with retractions or link to new information (breaking news) with title acknowledging previous information revealed to be false

WhatDaDuce ago

@puttitout Let's take the whole incident of the Covington Kids. (It didn't really happen here) but the media said one thing, and smeared the kids. Until facts came out to vindicate the high schoolers.

That incident took a few days before there was a clear picture of what happened.

24 hrs sounds good to me but it may be too short.

VicariousJambi ago

Nobody goes back to yesterdays posts just to downvote instead of upvoat.

You would instead just upvote the corrected story when it pops up.

HorseIsDead ago

Works for me, if you're so retarded that you regularly flip votes days later you should probably get off the internet anyway.

CantDentTheBrent ago

That's a great idea.

24 hours is more than enough time.

And it well help stop voat manipulation.

sakuramboo ago

And it well help stop voat manipulation.

How so? Once a post has been vote manipulated, why would they go back and undo their votes?

Shizy ago

They can go through someone's comment history and downvoat everything.

sakuramboo ago

That has nothing to do with what Putt is proposing

Shizy ago

If comments can not be voted on after 24 hours it would prevent someone going back through 7 days worth of a users history and downvoating every comment they made, so yes it would be impacted by what Putt is proposing.

sakuramboo ago

That's not what Putt is proposing. YOUR vote's can't change after 24 hours. Meaning, when YOU up/down vote. After 24 hours, YOU can not change YOUR vote.

User votes can not be changed after a 24-hour window

WhiteRonin ago

I’m sure some users will go through a user’s history to down voat all posts and comments.

sakuramboo ago

That has nothing to do with what Putt is proposing.

WhiteRonin ago

Does it not? He’s targeting user actions and I stated a case of such user action. You are being specific with down votes from the start. I’m talking about how just like right now if I were to piss you off, you could theoretically go through my last week of comments and posts and down vote away.

How do you think that I’m wrong.

sakuramboo ago

Because that's not what he is saying. He's proposing that your vote can't be changed after 24 hours of voting.

User votes can not be changed after a 24-hour window

You can still vote on a post or comment up to 3 months or 90 days. The difference is that before you could down vote a comment and then 89 days after that, you could change it to an up vote. Now, you only have 24 hours to change your vote.

WhiteRonin ago

Let’s say you upvoted me 10 times because you like my content. I just pissed you off, now you can’t go back to change those votes. This is also what he is saying.

sakuramboo ago

Preventing a single scenario from happening is the same as banning bump stocks to "help stop" gun violence.

OP's reply was...

And it well help stop voat manipulation.

This doesn't "help stop voat manipulation" because it will still happen. It can help lessen it, but then we need to see how often your scenario actually happens.

WhiteRonin ago

I’ve watched my counts because I targeted a lot. It happens.

Also I said “help” which means it won’t stop it but will “lessen” it.